Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: philippejugnet on October 29, 2012, 11:08:27 pm

Title: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on October 29, 2012, 11:08:27 pm
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor2.png)
not going to finish my last piece, I just went mad and did anything to do with wrath and death...
btw, I have nooo idea on what to add to the background, any suggestions?
it's a WIP.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Ryumaru on October 29, 2012, 11:43:37 pm
Why do you choose pixel art as a medium?
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on October 29, 2012, 11:54:41 pm
Why do you choose pixel art as a medium?
you think I shoudn't? you think my style doesnt fit PA right? :/
edit:
because I like to work with simple programs such as paint, and I think it's more i nteresting and clean.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: HarveyDentMustDie on October 30, 2012, 12:33:14 am
because I like to work with simple programs such as paint, and I think it's more interesting and clean.

That is just an excuse. If you are good in what you are doing, any program can be good and simple, you just need to try.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: jams0988 on October 30, 2012, 12:33:51 am
Quote
you think I shoudn't? you think my style doesnt fit PA right? :/
edit:
because I like to work with simple programs such as paint, and I think it's more i nteresting and clean.
It's not that your work doesn't fit the style of pixel art...it's just that until a "pixel art" piece like the one you just posted is finished and polished, it's more oekaki than pixel art, you know? Not that that bothers me. I like your work either way...have you ever tried using Photoshop or anything, though? It seems like you'd get cleaner looking results using a program like that than with paint.
Quote
That is just an excuse. If you are good in what you are doing, any program can be good and simple, you just need to try.
I'm not sure how that's an "excuse." He said he works in this medium because he enjoys it. Is that something he needs to defend?
I don't understand why he's not using Photoshop or Open Canvas or Sai or the like, but he's not insulting me by using a more basic program. I kind of like the oekaki style myself, so I can't say I totally misunderstand him either, hahah. Maybe he likes the binary control pixel art programs provide? Even if he doesn't refine most of his pieces, he has the option to if he ever feels like it...also, using these sorts of opaque, totally hard brushes must be great painting practice. You can't mess around with Photoshop's filters, layers, and brush types to get the effect you're looking for. You can't blend colors together to find the correct color you're looking for. Using this sort of program forces you to think HARD about the colors you're putting down. A lot of the better artists on here make some pretty fantastic and imaginative color choices, and I think part of the reason they can do that is because their medium forces them to be good at that sort of thing.

My two cents!
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on October 30, 2012, 01:08:57 am
because I like to work with simple programs such as paint, and I think it's more interesting and clean.

That is just an excuse. If you are good in what you are doing, any program can be good and simple, you just need to try.
I like to use paint because it's simple, there is no sense in your sentence.
Thanks guys, next update tomorrow, gonna re-do her bottom part.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Elk on October 30, 2012, 01:22:07 am
Why do you choose pixel art as a medium?

because people like us are insane :P!

what is required though, are the guts to finish what you started... and thats what philippe is learning currently... but hes starting too many new pieces... to get a full vision of his detail it needs more time so he actually can stamp them as "Done"
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: PixelPiledriver on October 30, 2012, 01:27:59 am
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q-8PyDtjU9o/UI8jPUlgG1I/AAAAAAAAEQU/hXmwitq9goM/s1600/knifeGirl.png)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Os2e32F9PTk/UI8j-qt967I/AAAAAAAAEQc/Sm4Ci342YTU/s1600/knifeGirlProcess.gif)

Quote
I have nooo idea on what to add to the background, any suggestions?
In most cases the backdrop should support the image.
There are several ways that it can do this.
- describe a location based on terrain
- set a time of day
- contain props that suggest, culture, story, future actions
- push objs forward or pull them back in space
- etc

A simple thing that it can do is "frame" the "action".
Show us where to look.
What is important.
What is not.

Its ok to be messy.
But try to use it more to your advantage.
Use the mess to emphasize what you want us to know.

Quote
you think my style doesnt fit PA right?
Process is the order of steps in which you take to finish a piece of art.
You appear to have one process thru out all of your pieces.
In many ways process leads directly to style.

Process1: I don't really do this ever. But it can be useful sometimes.
- Draw a rough line art in pencil on paper
- Use a light table to make a clean pen trace
- Scan image, adjust contrast
- Paint in 2 tone lighting
- Add simple color palette
- Blend colors and surfaces
- Add small details and adv lighting
- Retrace line adding various quality
- Finished!

Process2: This is my most common way of drawing. I also use many modifications of these steps
- Rough solid shapes all in white on computer
- Color replace in 1 shade of grey for surfaces
- Erase out details and inner lines
- Color replace with palette
- Add colored details and lighting
- Auto generate line
- Color replace line in areas to context color it contains
- Finished!

Process3: It's fun to draw even if I don't know what I'm going to draw yet, so I just figure it out as I go along
- Draw some blobs with no real plan
- Throw in some colors that look good
- Find some interesting parts of the image
- Work out some details here and there
- Add more random forms and detail them after deciding what they are
- Finished!

Process4: Sometimes I'm too tired to think!
- Whatever!
- Finished!

There many other ways of starting an image.
Each of these processes feels different as you create something, and creates a different result on top the natural way that you draw.
Typically having a clear plan, and order of steps will result in a better image in less time.
Create many processes of your own and use them to your advantage depending on what you want to do.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on October 30, 2012, 11:37:13 am
WOW. Ty so much for your edit and time once more and detailed critique.
UPDATE:
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor2-1-1.png)
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Beetleking22 on October 30, 2012, 12:41:58 pm
Thats pretty nice! I hope you spend more time with this.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Helm on October 30, 2012, 01:15:13 pm
You have a good eye for color but your figure composition is shaky. You need in my opinion to do many more studies, rough, fast studies from real life reference. They can be in pixels, I don't mind. But they need to be from reference so you (and we) can check where you're deviating from what you're seeing. The face here for example looks realistic but only in passing. Once you look closer, the facial features are well rendered but they're on a flat plane, with a forced perspective, one eye bigger than the other, the construction of the head hidden by messy pixel clusters and hair. I know all these signs because I used to draw like this, and still do to some degree. You need to do more, structurally. Trust me.

If you drew on paper without pixelly tech to make everything pretty, you would see very clearly where you're lacking in figure drawing. The anatomy is 'semi-there'. This is good because it means you have an instinctive understanding of it. But it's a bad place to say in for a long time, I know because I was and still am in a way. I think you're young (correct me if I'm wrong) so all the better to get on real figure drawing and push yourself there, not just pixel technique.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Ryumaru on October 30, 2012, 01:41:34 pm
Why do you choose pixel art as a medium?
you think I shoudn't? you think my style doesnt fit PA right? :/
edit:
because I like to work with simple programs such as paint, and I think it's more i nteresting and clean.

Did not mean to offend, as you can see by other posts, it's merely about finish. Pixel art is an odd medium in that it is one of the few that is defined by it's level of finish. This is because of a general consensus line that has been drawn between oekaki and pixel art. Here at pixelation we are completely fine with giving critique in all stages of a piece's lifetime, but you consistently move on to other pieces without that extra 15% or so of refinement that pushes things to the next level and solidifies it in the pixel art realm.

I think you have a great working knowledge of lighting and form which is extremely important and will serve you well throughout all your artistic endeavors. Your palettes are often sensible and pleasing as well.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on October 30, 2012, 02:50:30 pm
Helm - I start with lineart
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor-3.png)
Ryumaru, you didnt offended me ^^
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor2-1-1-1.png)
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Helm on October 30, 2012, 04:01:59 pm
Yes but what is underneath the lineart?

(http://www.locustleaves.com/kor.gif)

And I stress, this edit of mine above is bad. It's not enough. It's not based on anything, it's just quasi-superhero anatomy I've picked up because I am a comic artist. What you should do is reference human beings. A lot.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on November 01, 2012, 02:26:52 pm
Thanks guys, you all ( she is not fighting she is climbing )
update:
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor2-1-1-1-1.png)
ty Helm, fixed the anatomy issues I think
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Cure on November 01, 2012, 02:36:57 pm
The face is still really flat. The eyes are different sizes and heights on the face, and you haven't defined the side plane of the head enough, so the face is taking up too much of the head try placing the near cheekbone and temple, describe the skull before you describe the face.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Helm on November 01, 2012, 02:38:06 pm
No, I don't think you did. I cannot see what you changed, actually. You're going to have to do fundamental studies to get to what I'm trying to convey needs fixing. It won't be an easy fix and it might not have to do with this piece in particular.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on November 01, 2012, 03:34:20 pm
How come helm? increased the arm size and tweaked the leg.
cure, more like this?
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff368/philippejugnet/Kor2-1-1-1-2.png)
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Beetleking22 on November 01, 2012, 04:33:29 pm
Why his eyes are close when he fight with monster?
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Cure on November 01, 2012, 04:39:11 pm
Not really. At a glance, I see no noticeable difference.

I think what Helm is saying is that no amount of 'tweaking' is going to correct this, because the problems are foundational. If you don't have the proper foundation, then whatever you build on top of that foundation is going to turn out wrong. This is why it's important to carefully construct the anatomy from the very beginning, and not rush into a piece. If the skeleton is not right, then the muscles on top of it will not be correct. If the muscles are not correct, then the flesh on top of them will not be correct.

I would echo Helm's concern, that what would be most beneficial to your growth as an artist would be getting out the sketchpad and doing anatomical studies. Even if you're using references (which I'm not certain that you are), you need an internal visual library to understand what you're drawing.

Beetleking: She's climbing while grabbing a statue, not fighting a monster.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Beetleking22 on November 01, 2012, 05:04:38 pm

Beetleking: She's climbing while grabbing a statue, not fighting a monster.

I see...It is pretty confusing.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: Friend on November 01, 2012, 07:04:00 pm
What do you want to learn from each piece you do?  You seem to be stagnating with your work, as every single piece gets the same criticism, yet you continue the workflow with the exact same steps.  You won't get anywhere doing that. 
I've said it before, but for your next piece you should:

start at a normal to small size like 150x150. 
Neglect all signs of detail until you have been given the foundational pass of approval.   :hehe:

I know I'm a nag and not really skilled enough to give valid criticism, but I am observant enough to see what you need to do to begin to improve.  You need to study fundamentals such as anatomy, start smaller.  Remember ambition is not always in size.  Challenge yourself to make the cleanest, sharpest, most pixel proficient small piece you can.  Work slower.  Don't go into detailing your piece until first you have established a foundation as has been stated many times, and think more artistically instead of technically.  Give your pieces life, emotion, soul.  You have it in you.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: ErekT on November 01, 2012, 09:58:07 pm
Aw man, what the hell happened to photobucket? :sry:

You're drawing this at a pretty tricky angle. Like Helm said you have an eye for anatomy, but it also looks like you just eyeballed it here. The whole figure looks skewed. A sketch, proper sketch with measurements, would help you avoid that.
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/phi_paint_1.png)


If you rotate it about 40 degrees counter-clockwise problems pop out more. Shoulders don't align with the hips. Her right eye is too far out to the side etc.
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/phi_paint_2.png)


Skewed it the other way and did some corrections:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/phi_paint_3.png)


Rotated back to original angle:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/phi_paint_4.png)
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: NaCl on November 01, 2012, 10:41:58 pm
Mirroring, rotating, and silhouetting the image can also help show the problems.

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/gqx2s.png)
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: danilo on November 23, 2012, 06:44:08 pm
hey, not quite sure what is the black diagonal line, also the front arm should have some higlights to pop up more
best
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: philippejugnet on November 23, 2012, 07:15:23 pm
hey, not quite sure what is the black diagonal line, also the front arm should have some higlights to pop up more
best
Thanks guys for the help, I think I might re-do it.
The black line is a rope.
Title: Re: Jinn, the Dragonclaw
Post by: 9_6 on November 24, 2012, 10:24:53 am
If she's supposed to be climbing, her leg position seems to be very impractical for that.
I don't see when climbers would want to cross their legs in this manner.
At least I've never seen anyone climbing do that.

That dagger also doesn't look anything like a good climbing tool for solid rock.
This and the leg position as well as the monster head she holds onto suggest that she's fighting more than climbing.

Another thing, if you're climbing, you probably look into the direction you're climbing at to get a hold which, I suppose, would be upwards here.
The lady looks sideways with her eyes half closed.
A very relaxed look which, again, doesn't help conveying the climbing for which you'd expect a more focused look.