Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: kcbanner on October 08, 2012, 11:03:59 pm

Title: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: kcbanner on October 08, 2012, 11:03:59 pm
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum.

I've been working on a roguelike game (I am a programmer), but it's at the point where I need a tileset to render my maps, so I got Pro Motion and gave it a shot.

This is the first tileset, and the first real pixel art I've made, so I'm looking for a lot of critiques.

Here it is (16x16):
(http://i.imgur.com/3mCfj.png)

And 2x Zoom:
(http://i.imgur.com/SuxHM.png)

All the various highlight elements are on a separate layer, so my random level generation code can throw those in on the maps where it makes sense.

So, what I'm looking for:

1. Critiques on my art style: I feel like I am sticking to grey too much, and I don't have much contrast. The floors are boring and I find myself squinting to see some details (like the blood splotches). How can I make everything stand out more?

2. In the room on the right, I show some up/down stairways and the same with gates overlaid. This works fine when things are on the north wall, but how do I represent stairs when they are on East/West/South walls, or do I simply avoid that altogether? I tried making some other stairs (bottom right), but they don't look much like stairs.

3. Hallways, and character rendering: How do I represent a 1 tile wide hallway? Do I do it like I did at the bottom of the map, or how I did at the top right? In the case of the top right, how do I render the character (perhaps the top half of their sprite pokes over the wall)? I'm unsure on how to deal with this, and other issues like gates that go from North to South rather than East to West like the one at the bottom does.

Anyway, any feedback would be much appreciated on this!
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: Decroded on October 09, 2012, 03:36:42 am
Welcome! You have a great base here to start with and with a bit of work it could look rly cool.
Just wondering why i am seeing the squares of the transparency around the outside?
maybe make a dark layer underneath as a good reference for the brightness.
Also, yes lose the grey.
I don't know the proper way but i just select the color the increase the saturation and adjust the hues until i think it looks better.
I'm bad with interesting color ramps but just some goes.
I think you could use some more shadowy areas too, maybe the odd torch that casts orangy yellow highlights.
And add a few more structural designs even just some basic square pillars sparingly along the walls and at the corners, and you could have the odd pillar in the centre of bif floor areas as a form of obstacle.
Wondering what the floor is supposed to be? If its dirt then you should build some texture by adding some brown shades amongst the greys, and you could do with a few stone floor tiles and some transitions between stone and dirt.
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: kcbanner on October 09, 2012, 05:13:15 am
Hey, thanks for the feedback!

(http://i.imgur.com/r6Zrx.png)

I redid the floor, there are a couple different patterns and a few variations on those patterns now.
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: Decroded on October 09, 2012, 05:49:50 am
You should make some small adjustments to try to eliminate the grid on the floor tile, and start adding some hues, plain grey does no favours.
Consider darkening near the walls a little and addidng some patches of dirt etc, especially where maybe some bricks fell out and dirt came through, stuff like that.

The brown thing on top of wall has got to go too, quite alot of colour improvements and variations can be done.
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: kcbanner on October 09, 2012, 07:46:39 am
Ok, I redid the color on the brown part (wood beams) above the wall. I also added more wear to the walls and gave them a green/blue hue.

(http://i.imgur.com/89GBF.png)
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: kcbanner on October 10, 2012, 02:41:13 am
Well, I've kinda pivoted on this whole thing and decided to go with 32x32 tiles! Going to keep trying to get the atmosphere I'm looking for.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZLNL4.png)
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: tim on October 10, 2012, 02:43:20 am
It reads a lot better in 32x32 in my opinion !
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: Facet on October 10, 2012, 10:42:43 pm
So, what I'm looking for:
Awesome, you're asking the right questions in the right place :D
Quote
1. Critiques on my art style: I feel like I am sticking to grey too much, and I don't have much contrast. The floors are boring and I find myself squinting to see some details (like the blood splotches). How can I make everything stand out more?
A good way to start is to lay things out in monochrome first to get volumes and values working properly and then fiddle with hue to your satisfaction, and later when you're more confident with things, start by throwing down blobs of the kind of colours you think might evoke the desired atmosphere and draw and iterate from that pool when working (the latter is my preference). Be aware though: if everything stands out, nothing does; figure out what's most important and retain that focus wherever you take the palette.

The blood is a very similar value but of very different saturation to the underlying floor, making it look artificial and hard to process, sometimes termed 'eyeburn'. Some general colour info. (http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139392#139392)

Quote
2. In the room on the right, I show some up/down stairways and the same with gates overlaid. This works fine when things are on the north wall, but how do I represent stairs when they are on East/West/South walls, or do I simply avoid that altogether? I tried making some other stairs (bottom right), but they don't look much like stairs.
I think possibly a compromise to the effect of convenience is in order here; you could break the brown barrier up top and render stairs of all directions out into the void but often-times people just break the 4th wall with a directional arrow/sign or else use more symbolic tiles like so. (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=14619.msg135050#msg135050)

Quote
3. Hallways, and character rendering: How do I represent a 1 tile wide hallway? Do I do it like I did at the bottom of the map, or how I did at the top right? In the case of the top right, how do I render the character (perhaps the top half of their sprite pokes over the wall)? I'm unsure on how to deal with this, and other issues like gates that go from North to South rather than East to West like the one at the bottom does.
It's up to you to decide what'll look best. Whether to allow the bottom walls to overlap sprites so they'd be walking on a floor hidden from view in the top right example or have a 'whatcha see is whatcha get' approach floorspace which is a very common gamey compromise. (Zelda dungeons bow out all the surrounding walls for viewing which is stranger still really.) Either way, you could darken the bottom of the wall there to better describe the geometry and also maybe blend out into the black for more solidity and to appear less odd in its isolation.

Latest is a nice start, although I don't think the resolution change in itself is to thank for the improvement in readability :P. I think the single pixel nails are a bit repetitive in the boards but the stone wall tops integrate much better than previous (not to say that the beams couldn't look awesome with some work (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=12916.msg125066#msg125066))   
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: kcbanner on October 10, 2012, 10:53:12 pm
Thanks for the feedback, getting this help is really great!

I'm going to try your monochrome blocking technique and work from there. I agree, the floor is a bit repetitive and the nails make it kinda busy, maybe I'll lighten them up and make them more sparse.

In my game I'm actually trying to go for more of a darker theme, this set ended up coming out a bit too happy feeling, haha, gonna work on that too.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: Tourist on October 11, 2012, 05:37:42 pm
Other solutions to tall walls that hide floor tiles:

(http://www.4freeimagehost.com/uploads/afca5e30ec4f.png)

Ultima IV, with a mixed perspective, symbolic approach.  Walls don't distinguish between N-S, E-W, or corners.  This is a pretty close representation of many roguelikes.


(http://www.4freeimagehost.com/uploads/6d0796b49c82.png)

Get Medieval.  Sloped walls, where the base is wider than the top.  Doors in this game are wedges that sink into the floor.  This approach generally requires a more overhead angle.


(http://www.hirstarts.com/dungeon/dun050.jpg)(http://www.hirstarts.com/dungeon/dungani.gif)

Hirst Arts dungeons.  Short walls, wide corridors.  As long as the dungeon fits on a single flat level, the walls only need to be tall enough to suggest a barrier to travel.  Also, walls have a volume. This is obviously for miniatures rather than video games, but their website it good to browse for room designs and inspiration. 
http://www.hirstarts.com/dungeon/dungeon.html (http://www.hirstarts.com/dungeon/dungeon.html)


Consider dropping in some critters before choosing a tile size.  Critters or characters have much more detail than basic walls and floors, and the tile size will depend more on how they look.

Before deciding on a floor pattern, consider how you will represent range for the player.  A player will need to know if an opponent is in a particular range or area.  A smooth seamless floor will make this difficult, unless you plan on using some other indication.

If you are sticking with a perspective view, why use square tiles?  Rectangular tiles would fit more with the view angle. 

Hope this helps,
Tourist
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: NaCl on October 24, 2012, 10:36:30 pm
Color edit. Get them colors poppin boiii. Gotta shift that hue.

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/ycrjg.png)

Edit: uploaded image elsewhere
Title: Re: Dungeon Tileset [WIP]
Post by: Decroded on October 25, 2012, 02:51:07 am
Color edit. Get them colors poppin boiii. Gotta shift that hue.

(http://s18.postimage.org/qikrhl4jb/ZLNL4.png)
Can't see the image.