Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: .TakaM on June 18, 2006, 10:40:04 am
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working on a tileset, and Ive done the generic tiles so far (havent quite finished the water tiles yet :P)
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2699/hatetrees1lj.png)
and as you can see the trees look like shit (im going to change the path tiles a bit too)
here is the tree by itself:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4746/hate9rl.gif) (http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3125/trunk1ol.gif)
I really need some help on how to make the leaves look better, at the moment they blend in to each other too much and theres no shape to it :-\
thanks in advance guys
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The look are good and with quality, but i think all is a little "greeny"
About the trees i will try to put a shadow down the trees, now not seems the tree are implemented in the image.
But well, in overall all have a good quality :)
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(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5905/hatetrees5wi.png)
the shadows have improved them.. but I still hate the leaves ( I also flipped the trunk to fix the lighting)
and I changed the dirt path, for the better?
I know the shadows from the trees are a bit off, I just put in rough shadows
edit-
working on the water tiles now:
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9926/hatetrees0wd.png)
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Wow, nice man. It has a unique style that I can't capture in words. The light grass-blades look awesome, but I think the darker ones are a bit strange though.
Are you using this tileset for a game?
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The shadows are good, but the tree continue no implementen in the image, ithink need broken the terrain down the tree and add some details.
About the water... i not like the water. Seems a window ¿?. For the water i put a reflection of the image how now but with waves, and the line of the water not straight, with curves.
For exameple the line of the water now:
___________
With curves:
_/\___/\_/\___/\__
I dont know if i explain very well with all, i hope help you.
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(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8607/hatetrees9rx.png)
youre right about the dark grass strands lick, not much logic behind them lol, but easily changed, I made them lighter than the regular grass tiles and it looks much better now. and breaks up the grid better this way I think ;)
I guess I should add some better details to the trunk.. they kinda look plastic-y at the moment
and yeah youre right about the water, the edge ripples are too square, they ofcourse wont be when Im finished and they will work into the grooves of the cliff-face ;)
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With your permiss takam i make a fast edit.
(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1671/takamtrees5yg.png)
And well i make trees along time ago for a game, and think can help you to take some ideas about leaves, trunks etc..:
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/panicp2.htm
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/arbo1.png
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/arbo2.png
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/8marav2.gif
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/8marav3.gif
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Hey Taka, those rock walls look gorgeous. All of this is hand pixeled? Amazing.
I'd say make the cracks in the path even lighter (but only a bit) because at first glance they could still be mistaken for a rock wall.
It's hard to tell if those rock-like shapes in the water are reflections or contintuations of the rock face in the water. If they are reflections, first make more ripples in the water and have the rocks reflect off the ripples. If they are the latter, they should go from lighter on the top to darker on the bottom, the reverse of what you have now. Also do what Matriax said and have the water form to the rocks. It looks like a window now.
Not quite sure what to do about the leaves yet. I'll try fiddling with them later, but for now I'd say make the overall volume of the leaves less of a spherical shape and more organic. I also think that the trunk is a bit wide for such a small leaf group.
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My main problem with the image, although you could argue that it's for continuity, is that everything seems to have the same rocky pattern. It makes sense with the rocky cliffs, and the path looks good (although you called it a "dirt" path), but the grass also has a rock-like pattern.
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I see what Invaderlupis means, it also helps me see why the trees and the water look off.
You've set everything up with yuor other tiles to lack strong highlights, be very desaturated, and especially be very blocky, with defining llines around but not in the shapes.
You have to apply that to the trees and the water tiles to unify them better.
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I personally like the way the strands of grass were darker... they weren't so dark that they distracted, but blended in nicely...
I think the problem with the water is that it's too 'cornered', that it gives the water a very straight look, like mentioned before, almost like a window. A way to perhaps fit this is to give the highlights a rough edge instead of straight.
The grass-to-cliff transition looks like it doesn't blend well with the grass. They all form a line as they have no tiling in them at all with the grass tiles. I don't think you should change the grass, not everything has to be typical of grass, I think it's something new and just looks appealing.
I like the trees, I think they fit the piece pretty well, and overall I like the style. Perhaps lighten the darkest shade on the trees? I also didn't think the tree trunk looked too 'plasticy', I thought the simplicity was fitting.
Perhaps lighten the cracks in the dirt path? Maybe some 'rounding' of the tiles could help, right now everything looks pretty square. Although not a bad thing, rounding things could make it look better, and also help with the water.
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With your permiss takam i make a fast edit.
(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1671/takamtrees5yg.png)
And well i make trees along time ago for a game, and think can help you to take some ideas about leaves, trunks etc..:
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/panicp2.htm
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/arbo1.png
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/arbo2.png
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/8marav2.gif
http://www.speccy.org/remakesgraph/panic2/8marav3.gif
while I certainly appreciate the help and dont have any problems with an edit :P, I dont really like the changes youve made, its a bit too much and doesnt really fit in with the look Im going for
Hey Taka, those rock walls look gorgeous. All of this is hand pixeled? Amazing.
I'd say make the cracks in the path even lighter (but only a bit) because at first glance they could still be mistaken for a rock wall.
It's hard to tell if those rock-like shapes in the water are reflections or contintuations of the rock face in the water. If they are reflections, first make more ripples in the water and have the rocks reflect off the ripples. If they are the latter, they should go from lighter on the top to darker on the bottom, the reverse of what you have now. Also do what Matriax said and have the water form to the rocks. It looks like a window now.
Not quite sure what to do about the leaves yet. I'll try fiddling with them later, but for now I'd say make the overall volume of the leaves less of a spherical shape and more organic. I also think that the trunk is a bit wide for such a small leaf group.
make the cracks lighter.. Im not too sure about that. but okay I'll see what it looks like:
(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8982/hatetrees1hu.png)here it is with the path lightened 25% with the lightest shade.
I think it was kinda unnecessary
the rock tiles in the water are different tiles than the path or cliff. Im still not finished with them so I dont wanna post them and have everyone start on them :P , and yeah I will change the water ripples to a better result once the trees are finished :P
and great, I'd like to see what changes you made to the tree :)
My main problem with the image, although you could argue that it's for continuity, is that everything seems to have the same rocky pattern. It makes sense with the rocky cliffs, and the path looks good (although you called it a "dirt" path), but the grass also has a rock-like pattern.
well, quite simply everything is supposed to look rocky :P
I see what Invaderlupis means, it also helps me see why the trees and the water look off.
You've set everything up with yuor other tiles to lack strong highlights, be very desaturated, and especially be very blocky, with defining llines around but not in the shapes.
You have to apply that to the trees and the water tiles to unify them better.
yeah thats true, I think I will make where the trees meet the grass have the earth dry and broken.. it would merge in a lot better
I personally like the way the strands of grass were darker... they weren't so dark that they distracted, but blended in nicely...
I think the problem with the water is that it's too 'cornered', that it gives the water a very straight look, like mentioned before, almost like a window. A way to perhaps fit this is to give the highlights a rough edge instead of straight.
The grass-to-cliff transition looks like it doesn't blend well with the grass. They all form a line as they have no tiling in them at all with the grass tiles. I don't think you should change the grass, not everything has to be typical of grass, I think it's something new and just looks appealing.
I like the trees, I think they fit the piece pretty well, and overall I like the style. Perhaps lighten the darkest shade on the trees? I also didn't think the tree trunk looked too 'plasticy', I thought the simplicity was fitting.
Perhaps lighten the cracks in the dirt path? Maybe some 'rounding' of the tiles could help, right now everything looks pretty square. Although not a bad thing, rounding things could make it look better, and also help with the water.
well, the darker strands may have looked nicer (I think I will make the strands lighter than they are now so theyre a bit clearer) but the darker strands didnt make much sense really
the cliff top tiles dont merge in very well no, i think its another thing I'll work on after the trees, and if it doesnt turn out well, i can always just put transparency in the tiles so they blend in perfectly :P but I'd rather to it the harder way.
I am pretty happy with the trunks, I still will tweak it a bit, not too much though
thanks for all the crits guys ;)
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well, the darker strands may have looked nicer (I think I will make the strands lighter than they are now so theyre a bit clearer) but the darker strands didnt make much sense really
No need to apply sense to style :(
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(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8571/liketree2vj.png) (http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7016/tree6xz.gif)
Im pretty happy with this tree at the moment, still not quite finished, but I think its a good mprovement
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I'd agree that it's a very good improvement. It fits the style much more, and I'm sure you're on the right track. I've got a few suggestions, though.
Take a look at this kind of subtle edit I made:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Faktablad/cc04.png)
<mine...yours>
**Perspective--This is hard to pick up on when making trees. The perspective looks a bit too much side-on (as shown by the red circles). I tried to fix that a little bit but it probably wasn't enough.
**Texture--I love the look of the leaves but it may be a bit too much texture for the eyes when you have many trees plus the pattern on the rock walls and path. I went to the main leaf area and took away the really dark shadow shade and replaced it with one of the trunk shades, it worked fine. Again, it could use a bit more tweaking, and perhaps you should make the leaf group look a tiny bit less flat and add some more shaping using shadows and highlights.
That's about it for now. Can you post a full mockup with all the trees replaced so we can see the big picture?
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I agree with Faktablad that the tree is having his own perspective adventure and should be kicked back in this mockups perspective. =P
Anyway, .TakaM, that's a great tree. I love the big clear leaves that give a focused effect, just what your mockup needed. Also loving the way you made that shadow 'contain' grass. The bottom of the trunk looks kind of weird to me.
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thanks for the edit, youre right about the perspective and I'll continue with your edit ;)
and heres a mockup
my v.2 trees:
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5386/mock4or.png)
your edits:
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6015/difftree5lv.png)
quite a difference :)
edit-
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4121/difftree3nh.png)
added more to it
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That water looks much better.
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Try to gvie the stone road and walls a more grey/brown tone to them. As mentioned before, everything looks very "greeny" :). Heh, even the water have a little to green tone to it, go more blueish, this piece nees some more color contrast, other than that, VERY NICE indeed! :)
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Taka, I really really like these tiles. I can't find any serious crits, except the trees don't fit in my opinion. They are very good trees, but that stand out alot for some reason.
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i think the whole thing would benefit from a simple palette change mroe than anything else.
example:
(http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/7521/bagha5oq.png)
if you dont want to do that, then i think you need to lighten the trees more while keeping their shadows nice and dark so that the take on form instead of looking flat
also, i jsut keep having the same issue with your path. it looks like a wall instead of a floor and that is very confusing. suggest make blocks wider than they are tall, and add a highlight to lower ridges of each
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agree with adarias. His version looks amazingly better.
since it has more colours.. imagine seeing the world in black to white tones, we will be all depressed..
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Im not feeling the red to be honest adarias, well, it doesnt look too bad but it just gives the tiles a different feel that I wasnt going for
and the path, pretty easily solved I think:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8059/path3uj.png)
all I did was rotate all the path tiles 90 degrees so each part looks wider now
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no C+C from me - at least not now.
I just wanted to tell you how lovely these tiles are. reminds me a bit of the Nexus TK MMORPG game....but better!
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Im not feeling the red to be honest adarias, well, it doesnt look too bad but it just gives the tiles a different feel that I wasnt going for
and the path, pretty easily solved I think:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8059/path3uj.png)
all I did was rotate all the path tiles 90 degrees so each part looks wider now
just thought id throw out a suggestion since people were saying 'too green' etc, but yeah mine has a completely different feel to it.
just to point out my edit actually has less colors, just a wider variation within them
and yes the path looks much better now
did you see what i did ith the water? how i got rid of the darkest shade and made it match the walls more? you dont have to but i think it might help (makes the water look less solid)
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the green-ness to it is coz I want everything to look kinda overgrown with moss, once I make some paved paths, and more town style tiles it will look less greeny
and your water edit, I think I'll keep that, it does make it look better ;)
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i guess i took the same route as adarias...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Marshy/hatetreeEDIT.gif)
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Alex's edit is rather appealing to me. The orange is a step in the right direction IMO, however it could use a bit of desaturation to make it more subtle.
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sorry, but this image was real fun to tweak.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Marshy/normalsat.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Marshy/orangedesat.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Marshy/hatetreesdifferent.gif
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I like that first and the orangedesat colour swap, Alex. It's a good combo that gives off a nice feel. I like thecolorus from taka's best though. They remind me a lot of ICO's outdoor scenes.
Great tiles, Taka.M. Definitely something special about these. I've gotta second what GoodnightDestroyer is saying about your newest tree. The outlines seem completely out of style with everything else
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It looks really good Taka...My only suggestion would be to swap the darkest green with something a bit more purple...Still in the same luminance range however...But the piece does work well as it is...
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(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1268/hate2ba.png)
been working on the town-ish tiles.. not happy with the walls at all, crits welcome.
edit-
added a door
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I like the greenness of the old picture, despite all the complaints. It gives a rather soothing feel to the environment As for the new, town tiles, The trapezoid(?) sideways <-pointing bricks in the wall look out of place. That as well as the lack of dimension to the bricks. They look like they're just plastered onto a flat plane. I say give 'em more pop. Also, on the roof, the border tiles blend in too much to the flat tiles. You know how in some Iso games, the raised platforms are outlined in black to distinguish them from the lower levels? Well, yeah, I wouldn't go that far, but it could use some distinguishment, like maybe stronger hilights or something? It also seems odd to me to have a roof made out of wood like that, all checker-patterned and everything. I like the ground tiles and low-saturation feel you got goin' on, though.
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Im definetly going to redo the wall tiles completely (except for maybe the skirting down the bottom).. they look like garbage right now lol, the door helps them a bit, but I dont want to be putting doors everywhere so the walls look right :P
I think youre right about the brick borders on top of the walls, I'll give them outlines similar to the borders around the dirt ;)
and the wood roof, well its meant to be like a... walkway ontop of the buildings, helps make the towns more interesting, but I will ofcourse make regular roofs too ;)
and thanks :)
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well the main problem with the wall tiles I think is that you have that straight line going down so it's way to easy to see where it tiles (i think this is a problem with the floor tiles too. If you're going to redo them though just keep that in mind. The door and the other tiles are looking great, I love them. so so smooth
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I think I'll rotate the paved tiles to 22 or 45 degrees to help break up the grid look, thanks darien :)
edit-
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/838/newti1lt.png)
I think this looks a bit better, I need to make the tiles shorter vertically
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(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6349/better3zf.png)
I think I'll add some moss to it to make it look cooler :)
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(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3238/better0gz.png)
I think the walls look better now, threw in a tree just to make it look less empty :P and I tweaked the paved tiles a tiny bit
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(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2712/better7zz.png)
windows, not quite done with them I think :-\
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NIce. The style on these tiles is so crisp and smooth. The tile rotation looks good. However, the ground tiles eem to me to be looked at straight down. I dunno, maybe its just me. :)
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yeah theyre definetly out of the perspective, Im just putting off fixing it coz Im gonna have to pretty much make them all over again :P
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With this kind of perspective/tiles. Ground tiles are usually seen from a top view because that makes them expandable. It's too much trouble to make diffrent sized tiles to make look like it's at the same perspective as the rest of the scene. If he was trying to make a scene that was set in it's overall size or it's height, then he would need to make them in a slightly diffrent perspective. He's making map tiles so it's just not practical.
On another note. I really think you've improved a lot. I think that you've got a tendancy to try and make your tiles based too much on a certain color. You should try to use a wider variety of colors.
I really love that water, and the stone pathway. :) This is a great tileset.
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(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5799/perp8kv.gif)
I think this perspective is right, but what you see definetly isnt the final tiles, they dont even tile properly and were skewed in photoshop XD
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hm, well I can kinda see how you're salvaging the wall tiles with all the harshly lit windows that protude....and it works, but I think it is better to plan out your readablity whitout counting on variation tiles, since it IS a game we are talking about and readibility is the biggest issue.
I'd go with a gradient dark below, light above for the walls....I know how cheap it sounds but I'm not saying open up photoshop make a 25% visible layer and the put a gradient on it, I mean carefully pixel the details in such way that light is gradually greater towards the top :p (hey if it is good enough for boktai, why dont you give it a try?)
I say this because the way I see topdown tiling, it basically goes down like this....only one of the planes (by that I imply there's only two, vertical and horizontal) can be regularly lit and basically just show off texture. the way you have done your shading it seems the horizontal will be the one on your game, so the vertical plane (which also seems like it'll just pretty much be 1 block high in your game) by elimination must have gradual lighting....it also makes sense, because the vertical plane is the one where characters move in and they should have an interesting lighting situation going on.
BTW, it's just an opinion but I prefered the old leaf pattern, I favor the more suggestive quasi-impresionist style because it gives a better sense of scale growth patterns and texture, it teases the brain much better than the new one.
to me the new trees look like a plastic bonsai from the unrealistically big, unrealistically structured and unrealistically well lit leafs. I seriously love the old foilage, it's a good example of where I think pixelart should go.
I know you'll probably just give me a "what I have is better for my idea of the game's aethetic" type excuse, but I felt it had to be said.
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adding a gradient to the wall makes a lot of sense, we all know lighting gives the illusion of depth, I just wasnt sure if it would be necessary, so thanks :D
and the old trees, while I greatly prefer the idea of a cabbage tree-ish .. tree over whatever type tree my original was, I know what youre saying. Im still not quite happy with the trees, and trees always mess me up when I make tiles, but I'll get it sorted out eventually
I think after doing a couple more types of tiles I'll have an idea of the best way to do the leaves. but for now, and out of super boredom I present a mockup :D
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1696/mock6ex.png) pretty wierd resolution I know lol
and yeah its another LBA related image, but inspiration has to come from somewhere :P
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The industrial looking drums dont look a tad out of place? :p
ATM I like the trees. Instead of rotating those tiles, maybe you could make rougher versions. I mean like cracked and worn. Have a few of those maybe. Or just dont make them so uniform and straight, it looks really boring IMO.
The character needs a bit more saturation and/or contrast. I dunno, I guess its up to you.
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the barrels do look out of place, part of me thinks its because every rpg every made has had wooden barrels in it :P
and cracks on the tiles, I could do something similar to the grass highlight tiles to help break up the repetition, thanks :)
and the character sprite doesnt really matter lol
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You're welcome. I don't much like the pine look on all the wood IE: Really light brown. My personal preference would to make the wood a darker shade of brown and ad some grain or rings in the wood.
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I gave the walls a bit of a gradient:
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6673/mock22tv.png) at the moment I prefer (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1696/mock6ex.png).. might just be because Ive gotten used to it though.. :-\
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how about adding highlights on the top, instead of shadows on the bottom?
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I didnt literally mean gradient. I only meant gradually increasing the light by making use of brighter and brighter details as you moved vertically on the wall. that is why I cited Boktai.
my bad I wasnt clear enough.
I dont think it necesarily has to be the top part that is brightest either, maybe it can be the other way around
maybe you should try other styles of shading on walls.
try it the other way around like Ryumaru suggests if you want...I dont know.Experiment, play with the idea.
my point was mostly that you should emulate a more complicated lighting situation to separate the walls from the floors
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And seriously, get rid of those barrels. Just seeing them in there frustrates the hell out of me.
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And seriously, get rid of those barrels. Just seeing them in there frustrates the hell out of me.
Because they look so out of place?
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And seriously, get rid of those barrels. Just seeing them in there frustrates the hell out of me.
Because they look so out of place?
lol, dont worry about the barrels, I think I'll just make the standard wooden barrels, and wooden crates too ofcourse :D
been working on a hay roof:
(http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8366/qq0ag.png)
this mockup is a little old and it has improved a bit since then.. I need to make some shadows that work with the roof properly..
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I've been looking at some diferent topdown games for reference, mostly GBC star ocean.
I think you should use a wholly diferent range of lightness for your vertical planes, that really really makes the diference.
There's no way you'll ever confuse a wall with a floor if the wall is 20 steps darker in every tone
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To be honest, I don't think it's possible to confuse .TakaM's walls with the ground as they are now...
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The main problem I have with the latest tiles is that the lightsource appears lost on the roof. the bottom left of picture does not seem to apply to the hay, which is roughly bottom.
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How's it going now?
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If it were going, TakaM. would have posted an update. Please don't ressurect threads. Leaving this unlocked in the case the artist has anything to add. Otherwise, lock.