Pixelation
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: lazyjoker on April 22, 2012, 09:47:54 am
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Well, 3-4 year lurker here, i don't intend to be a member, i am here to ask this question and maybe others.
I have read almost every (i hope this is not an exaggeration, but i am afraid that it is) notable and unnotable tutorial written on pixel art on the internet, i have studied sprites, read up on techniques (AA, dithering, Blending, Hue shifting, RGB/HSL values, Banding, etc.) And I still produce works that even i think are just bad.
So my question is this, am i the only one that thinks all the known pixel tutorials are, dare i say, Basic, there just crap, no offense to the people who write em. I mean, it cant be just me, E.G Tsugmo's works is mind blowing, no doubt, but his tutorial (sywtbapa) doesn't show me squat, and yet people always say "read this one", as with Dereks, as with Gas13, as with PixelZone, etc. people always link the same ones, and i cant get anything outta em. or maybe im missing something? i study each line but, nothing...
I also try to emulate/study many artist, like Fool,Helm,Jinn,Derek etc. but i cant understand ?HOW? pixel-gods?
So am i the only one?
And also suggest ways for me to advance or gimme some more indepth tuts or just new ones.
Thank you
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No pixel art tutorial teaches you the fundamentals of art which is much more useful than pixel perfect curves. Also, I often find the better I get the more I take away from tutorials.
If you haven't already, drop the mouse and pick up a pencil; and even if you have, do some more.
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thanks for the advice, so, do u mean scanner or just to practice?
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Practicing is always the best way to improve. Use the tutorials after you've done some work to see if you're doing anything fundamentally wrong, but just keep working at it.
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And I still produce works that even i think are just bad.
You are always your harshest critic so this doesn't need to say too much.
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I actually disagree with Ryumaru. I am completely incapable of drawing anything on paper. In fact, I can almost even write more legibly on a mouse than I can with a pencil. The medium of your art does not effect your ability to learn fundamentals. Pixel art, like any art or profession takes practice, a lot of practice. I like to believe in the principle that the more pieces you push out the better you become as an artist. For me this has worked out quite well. However, I have seen this backfire due to the fact that it can lead to bad habits. In other words, use what you have seen in tutorials, the techniques, and apply them to your own practice. And while it's great to aspire to the pixel gods, just remember that they started out just like you did. There is no super power that they have, or artistic mastery that cannot be achieved through practice.
I hope that helps :)
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Hi, lazyjoker, I wanted to ask as it completely partains to your issue: Do you think the Ramblethread series of posts I've done which are fundamentals in pixel art are also 'basic crap' insofar that they haven't helped illuminate the 'how' part of making pixel art? I also agree most tutorials (not just pixel art, generally art tutorials on the internet) are "here's how I draw, aren't I awesome? Now do the same" and therefore unhelpful. But not all. Arne's fundamental digi-colouring guide for example has been of great help to me again and again. I think a lot of people are enthusiastic about sharing what they believe is their method, but they're not good teachers: they don't know how to differentiate the 'how to' from the 'why I did'. As I am trying to leave something behind to the pixel art community, I'm interested if the Ramblethread is also a barren zone for you. Also a more conceise, easier to read and practical-er version of the ideas presented in it can be found in Cure's tutorial here (https://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixeljoint.com%2Fforum%2Fforum_posts.asp%3FTID%3D11299&ei=5iiUT_FfjdmyBpGkoaEE&usg=AFQjCNEo0qk3ndH-wM_WyHASzsOl1fMZdA). Does this help?
Also, since you made this thread, please post examples of your artwork. Otherwise I have to move this thread to the general board. Thanks.
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Is it your own drawing in general you're unhappy with, or just PA?
If PA the only art form you attempt, then there's your problem right there . . .
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Get your ass up and challenge yourself (e.g. try things you don't think you are skilled enough for), thats the most efficient way.
Tutorials can't teach you "how to be good", they just give you points from where you can start.
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Ok move this in correct place, im sorry.
Now.
@Phlakes This advice is great, so thank you. //Practise
@9_6 This is so true, I sometimes show my work to others and they say it looks ok, whereas I think i've butchered it.
@slym This. Thank you so much. I feel exactly like this:)
@Helm ahh yes, Ramblethread, your the author yes? This is one of the few that aren't basic, but its soooo much theory, I love it:) (hard to get my head around though), and yes I have read Cures one at PJ, one of my favourites for Principles, also Les Forges one is really good. But also with Ramble thread, I think Anti-banding is a little bit inessecary, but its good theory, i mean most pixel art have HEAPS of banding on all their pieces, but that's just me.
@Mathias I am quite happy with my TA, but my passion is in PA
@Mr. Beast Will Do!
I will rephrase my first post, I don't really mean there crap, when I started pixel art these were "everything". But, if you use all the tequniques in tuts, you usually end up with a sorta "first drafting look", its readable, but that's it.
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Regarding tutorials, I think it's less important that you learn how to do something, but that you learn that you can do something. We are all about demystifying great art and proving that even mortals can achieve such feats. Coming here should show anyone that this isn't a black art, but that it's a trade composed of a learn-able (and teachable) skill set.
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I think it's alot easier to learn from trying than studying.
A C+C thread teaches me a lot more than most tutorials I find.
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I actually disagree with Ryumaru. I am completely incapable of drawing anything on paper. In fact, I can almost even write more legibly on a mouse than I can with a pencil. The medium of your art does not effect your ability to learn fundamentals. Pixel art, like any art or profession takes practice, a lot of practice. I like to believe in the principle that the more pieces you push out the better you become as an artist. For me this has worked out quite well. However, I have seen this backfire due to the fact that it can lead to bad habits. In other words, use what you have seen in tutorials, the techniques, and apply them to your own practice. And while it's great to aspire to the pixel gods, just remember that they started out just like you did. There is no super power that they have, or artistic mastery that cannot be achieved through practice.
I hope that helps :)
Actually, I disagree with you slym. While in general a chosen medium does not deter from learning the fundamentals; pixel art and other resolution limiting mediums do. The fact of the matter is that in pixel art there's literally just not enough resources to do everything. Even on a 1 inch by 1 inch piece of paper you could use progressively smaller pen nibs or infinitely sharper pencils to make some nice small studies, but you can't - literally- have smaller pixels. I've seen you do some great small scale work, and it's very likely I haven't seen enough of your work to make a judgment, but I find there are some talented pixel artists that are bound by video game art conventions I.E. creating symbols rather than representations. Now this is completely fine if ALL one ever wants to do is be good at that very small portion even within pixel art itself. But I would say that since the OP mentioned the " pixel gods" of which I know at least fool and Helm do practice traditional media, he is probably after a similar range of skill which is simply not possible only through the study of pixel art.
Pixel art is mainly a one way road I've found, where it's only application to other media is a different mode of thinking, perhaps a lesson in economy, etc- but traditional media practice really opens up any avenue one wants to pursue.
Now I would agree with you that mileage is very important in increasing skill. Lately ( in both traditional and pixel work) I've done much more theory-ing than I have doing, and while theory is important, I've found that the hand suffers when you're not doing it, even if you're thinking of ways to do it better. It may just be the way I'm wired but a look at the conceptart.org forums sketchbooks will show those that are pumping out multiple studies daily seem to do a lot better than the ones that ponder what art is about, what compositional tools are best etc etc. I think " to do" is good advice for the OP because pixel art is only an assemblage of multiple, simple tasks- complexity comes from the subject matter and restrictions, and no tutorial can really show you how to do a complex piece, but only the simple techniques that lead up to it.
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If you want to get anywhere as an artist, hone your traditional representational basics as much as possible. The great 'pixel art curse' is for an artist to become good at pixel tech to hide his fundamental deficiencies behind them. Pixelation's scope is not to teach trad. skills, naturally, but it doesn't mean we should endorse self-limiting practices just because we like pixels.
I am no amazing artist but right next to my monitor I always have a stack of paper, pencils and inks. Even when not drawing comics or doing illustration work, I constantly doodle and do small studies, some of them evolve. If there's not scribbles on that paper by the end of the day, it was a day almost wasted. I encourage all pixel artists to draw much more than they pixel. Pixel tech knowledge, once achieved, does not deteriorate. On the other hand, gestural strength does. Improvisation with a pencil needs every day work.
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I have to get on Ryu's side on this one.
I think a good example would be contrasting Konjak's promotion art http://www.konjak.org/art/noitusteam.jpg and his gameart https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XWGGybAEZkc . His sprites are lovely and have all the charm they need to make their simple design shine, but when you look at his promotion art it's painfully obvious how limited this knowledge really is.
I used to defend positions like Slyme's but it really does cripple you a lot to stick to only one....(what it is pixelart? a technique? a style? I'll call it a technique) technique, specially one as obfuscating as pixelart. if it's the only thing you do it hurts you a lot and it CAN become a crutch to never really learn the basic skills, it takes a lot of time to recover...
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Pixel art gets away with a lot, by virtue of both limitations and expectations, which is one of the reasons it has become quite mundane for me. Of course I haven't mastered it, but the normal reaction to people at this stage is to either embrace the limitations to the extreme or to try to break out of its original purpose at the opposite end. Kind of like microcosmic videogame-inspired Schopenhauer.
I think it would probably be good for you to continue trying to emulate a few artists, find out what their workflows are like (hopefully they're different so you can figure out what works for you) and give them a shot. Like individual artworks, art skills are developed step-by-step, there's usually no divine influence, and you shouldn't get overwhelmed when you're staring at a blank canvas/screen/frontal lobe and comparing your work to the finished product of a master.
The only way I know of to get better at any work from imagination or works that require imaginative reinterpretation (from limitations or otherwise) is to do a lot of life drawing. You should be discovering things that you might not have thought about left and right if you're doing it correctly, which gives your art depth and insight. That and being really honest with your self-critique (because the key to fixing any problem is first identifying it), which can be improved through critiquing others, are basically my key takeaways from Pixelation at this point. Oh and that last sentence of the last paragraph.
Also this same discussion has been had here many times (not that it isn't a worthwhile one), it's basically this forum's Godwin's Law.
e: I also commend Conceit for his restraint in choosing which of Konjak's digital artworks to display.