Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: 9_6 on February 06, 2012, 02:07:43 am
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NEW:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/149wqao.gif)(http://i42.tinypic.com/1o0rhy.gif)(http://i41.tinypic.com/aeobac.gif)
Old topic:
Hi guys, I've had a pixel-itch I had to scratch lately.
It has been a while.
So tonight, this is what happened:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2iw8x1s.gif)
I don't quite know what to do with it at this point besides mashing more colors into it but I'm sure there's something I am missing.
Any suggestions?
OLD:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/o0ngvl.gif)(http://i43.tinypic.com/351fw2c.gif)m sure there
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I find the blue for the outlines very off putting. You may need to add a color to have a better outline color.
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Love that heavy blue. May be a bit too heavy though. The only critique I have is that it really needs to be cleaned up and refined.
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Ah that blue I see what you mean.
The green parts used to be blue before I recolored them to green to make them pop out a bit more but I left the darker blue shades in.
I've gotten rid of almost all the blue-ness and made some other various adjustments:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/11ifjax.gif)
Edit: Messed around a bit more
(http://i44.tinypic.com/19tt35.gif)
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That indeed looks much better. Good stuff.
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Okay thanks, I guess for now we can call this one done-ish then.
I've made a sketch for another one but didn't get to actually pixel it yet so for now I'll just post that in case someone sees something in need to be fixed.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/v31y5w.jpg)
Cheers.
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you should make more difference between man and women, like the hair or some ear's accessories or even tatoo
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I don't know if I can work with such subtle things with anyone even noticing at that size.
Or what kind of tattoo makes ambiguous things appear more feminine or masculine. Please elaborate.
Also progress:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/351fw2c.gif)
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I don't know if I can work with such subtle things with anyone even noticing at that size.
Or what kind of tattoo makes ambiguous things appear more feminine or masculine. Please elaborate.
Well, he probably just meant that the male and female sprites were too similar, and gave you some quick ideas. Tattoos can have any meaning you want them to, as long as you let the player know what they mean through dialog or whatever. You can make the tails shaped a bit differently; thinner for the women? The hair you could make a bit finer or longer, I guess.
I don't think it's a huge problem, though. If I had to guess which was male, and which was female, I'd be able to already. That said, the girl isn't especially feminine looking, either. If you told me she was a guy, I wouldn't object. It's up to you whether or not that's okay. They are lizard people, so you might not care about making the women especially feminine looking, hahah.
The girl does seem a little unfinished when you look at her next to the guy, since she only has two skin tones instead of three. But you said "progress," so I'm assuming you're still working on her?
Good sprites, anyway. I think they're gonna look really cool when you animate them. =)
Also, thanks for the "no blurry pixels!" link in your sig. That's awesome. =D
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Imaginative anatomy is pretty good :y: although the first guy's right thigh appears a bit longer than his left. lizardgirl is higher contrast in comparison, more bridging shades would be nice, as Jams suggests.
As to gender distinction, it's certainly hard to make subtle anatomical changes at low res, you really have to make it obvious. Your lizardman is sporting a crop top (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_top) with veiled thong (http://blog.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/leia-star-wars-scifi-wallpaper-e1304485342617.jpg) combination and has implied long hair in addition; you can imagine how that could be misinterpreted objectively.
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Thanks.
No time for drawing today so I'll just throw in a quick comment and then begone.
Well, he probably just meant that the male and female sprites were too similar, and gave you some quick ideas. Tattoos can have any meaning you want them to, as long as you let the player know what they mean through dialog or whatever. You can make the tails shaped a bit differently; thinner for the women? The hair you could make a bit finer or longer, I guess.
I don't think it's a huge problem, though. If I had to guess which was male, and which was female, I'd be able to already. That said, the girl isn't especially feminine looking, either. If you told me she was a guy, I wouldn't object. It's up to you whether or not that's okay. They are lizard people, so you might not care about making the women especially feminine looking, hahah.
Well I didn't say it's supposed to be female yet 2 people took for granted that one has to be already.
I'm mostly focusing on making their colors and anatomy non-terrible and they're supposed to look kinda-cute yet still physically capable.
In the end, they're supposed to be enemy types in a golden axe-ish type of game and and angry barbarian punches them so hard that their bones fly out of their bodies.
Imaginative anatomy is pretty good :y: although the first guy's right thigh appears a bit longer than his left. lizardgirl is higher contrast in comparison, more bridging shades would be nice, as Jams suggests.
As to gender distinction, it's certainly hard to make subtle anatomical changes at low res, you really have to make it obvious. Your lizardman is sporting a crop top (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_top) with veiled thong (http://blog.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/leia-star-wars-scifi-wallpaper-e1304485342617.jpg) combination and has implied long hair in addition; you can imagine how that could be misinterpreted objectively.
Yes I will try to look into that leg.
They've always been a mess for me to get right if one points directly forward because lolperspective.
Also that's not quite a crop top, it's a split cape kinda thingy which you can almost not see from the front though.
It's supposed to be tribal clothing and I thought dreadlocks-type-of-hair was exempt from looking girly.
Maybe I'll take the first ones shirt off since it's against the law for males to wear shirts in golden axe anyway (unless you're a dwarf) and turn that fancy halberd into a primitive spear cause it's all a bit too clean-looking right now.
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I feel the sprite looks a little flatter than it should because the colors are crammed too much together at the mid-range. You could also add some highlights to the skin to make it nice and shiny.
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz263/ErekT_Pixel/lizzy.gif)
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Oh I completely forgot to check the tones in grayscale.
Yeah some of them are very similar to each other, I'll try and even things out a bit.
I don't know about highlights on the skin. Makes things look a bit too shiny/sweaty.
Update:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/333gyvd.gif)
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why don't work on flow, anatomy, lighting or colors in detail? By improving at least one thing the completely image could get better.
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-5353/lizardwarrior.png)
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Thanks.
Update:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/xelmr4.gif)
Anatomy it is then.
I got rid of the distracting pishposh so we can actually see what's going on there and tried giving things a bit more definition.
I don't quite know what broad, sweeping things to do about the colors though. Purple is something I'd rather like to avoid since it creeps into about everything I do.
I'm also not sure what to do about the flow or the lightning.
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I guess what first catches my eye about the flow is the fact that his bottom half looks ready to destroy, while the top half reads more as a strong sentinel guarding a precious stone. There isn't really a strong action line on your sprite right now, and it makes him feel a little bit static.
Here's a really rough illustration:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/Daroge/EWWAJPEG/Flow1.jpg)
I'd either straighten out his legs to where they wouldn't be any further apart than the width of his chest, or hunch him over his spear more so that his chest is out past his hips. Just try to establish a really strong line that his entire body can follow.
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Yeah the upper body really is a bit too straight.
Thanks.
Update:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2iw8x1s.gif)
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(http://i44.tinypic.com/11ifjax.gif)
This one was your best version. I don't know why you've moved so far away from it! The edits with his pose are better though.
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Why is that one the best?
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(http://i44.tinypic.com/333gyvd.gif)
I actually think that one is your best. Your old ones were interesting looking, but they were burning the crap out of my eyes with all those super-saturated colors. > <
The newest one looks a bit too dull, like he's made out of play-doh or something, I think.
And cyan's edit is the most appealing overall, to me. I think one done in that style with backgrounds to match would look really nice.
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Okay so I take it it's not just a character design but also a technical issue with the "play doh-ness"?
Alright, time to start over then.
This time with a size reference since the old one was too large anyway.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/21f02zb.gif)
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I dont get it, your newest one looks amazing. I love everything about it lol, don't redesign it :c
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Why would you throw all that away? It's pretty great! All that's left is to remove banding, go through you pixel shapes and optimise them and fix some anatomy. The best critique I have for you right now is : AVOID SINGLE PIXELS. They're just noise at this size. Every pixel should be part of a bigger group that is explaining some of the form (information) not just detail that becomes noise. Simplify.
(http://locustleaves.com/ewrwety.gif)
The principles of what I'm doing here (besides intuition, of course) are documented over in the Ramblethread if you're interested in this approach.
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i'm agree with Helm. Your lizard is pretty good and i like a lot big sprite.
Why do you think it's too large? in fact all depend the kind of game you want to make and the screen widht you need: (Computer/ DS-PSP / TV )
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Worked a bit on the fat guy:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/ousarq.gif)
Still very wip.
Why would you throw all that away?
I need something fresh to look at and there's no practical use in a probably-never-come-to-be project in a sprite that is too large.
This is mostly just for practice.
Anyway I tried incorporating some of your feedback.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/241nq5z.gif)
Throwing it away is a little too melodramatic though, don't you think?
I'll try to incorporate the things I've learned here in future pixel work.
I'm on this one sprite for over a week now. This topic needs some fresh blood.
Why do you think it's too large?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/r889jp.png)
I wanted to do something like golden axe except that you can actually see faces.
So this would be the resolution I'll go for.
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maybe you should take a look to knight of the round.
In fact it's just a little more big tha your screen.
(http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/k/knights_of_the_round-176976-1.jpeg)
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Do something like this lol
(http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/st_3.png)
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Lilyo great screen :crazy: i don't know this game oO
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Lilyo great screen :crazy: i don't know this game oO
that's fools stuff http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/6741.htm and i don't see any point why bring it up here sure it gives inspiration
(http://i39.tinypic.com/21f02zb.gif)
i actully like these designs more expect that blue lizard you just did it has perspective/anatomical issues you should rotate that upper torso more here hope you get what i mean
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Thanks for the feedback.
@kriss and Lilyo:
Please cut it out.
Personal reasons aside, I mostly picked golden axe for character size comparison.
I'm also not enough of a crazy motherfucker like fool (or snake or elk or helm or...) to work in that kind of resolution in that kind of detail (and then take all that and then even animate it) so just posting some work and saying "do it like this" doesn't help.
What also barely helps is saying "there are anatomical issues" or "fix the anatomy" without elaborating.
That reads a bit like "make it, you know, better" to me since I am completely anatomy-dyslexic and actually trying the best I can here.
i actully like these designs more expect that blue lizard you just did it has perspective/anatomical issues you should rotate that upper torso more here hope you get what i mean
Not really. There are 2 possible axises to rotate it in but I can't quite see the necessity to rotate it in either.
Is that an anatomy or a perspective issue anyway? Please elaborate.
Also some progress I made:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/211uzae.gif)(http://i44.tinypic.com/30lfat1.gif)(http://i41.tinypic.com/aeobac.gif)
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I'm sorry 9_6 but i told "maybe you should take a look to knight of the round.
In fact it's just a little more big than your screen." :)
So i'm waiting to see more because your sprites are really goods
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I have to say Im loving the new blue guy. He actually looks better than your old lizards, I think, even at the lower resolution. Looking forward to seeing the original red lizard finished at the new smaller size. =D
I don't think kriss was trying to be insulting though, 9_6! His posted reference was a good one, I think, being the same resolution and game-type you're going for. It also looks to be very much in your skill-level.
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I'm not mad, I'm just saying. You know.
I'm just saying.
Inspiration is good and all but let's not go overboard here and turn this into a screenshot/mockup repository.
Yes I know you can actually work much larger than that (LOOK AT THIS WHAT IS THIS EVEN (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17792.htm)) but I chose not to.
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Progress:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2lvbg34.gif)
I have no idea what to do with the colors here.
Yellow is a weird color to shade.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/25tasut.png)
4 was the one I originally had but I didn't really like the brown so I made it shade to green which lead to 1.
Then I discovered that it looks weak when laid over the screenie because of all those saturated, colors. The neutral gray sticks out way too much and not in a good way.
So I checked the saturation values for each shade on mr ax battler which lead to 3. That one looks kind of overdone because I refuse to let go of hue shifts.
Then I adjusted colors to be a bit brighter and less saturated which brought us to 2 but it doesn't really look yellow anymore.
Which one works?
Guess I need to make my own background. Argh.
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The ears make them look mammaly, and not lizardly at all.
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Concerning screen size, one thing to keep in mind besides "look at this screenshot or Fool piece then do it" is to make sure that you account for the fact that beat 'em ups are often designed for at least two players, and if you're going for true arcade gameplay, up to four players fighting masses of enemies.
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i'm thinking the brown / green colors are the best for lizard (in warhammer battle there are some blue lizardman, but i'd never liked it ! )
So this is my suggestion : green + resize a little the head to look more than a dragon
I made a crazy test to add scale .....
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/krisss666/lizard-kriss.png)
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs13/i/2007/010/b/e/Lizard_Man_by_williamsquid.jpg)
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Technically these sprites aren't bad but they miss "the certain something". Simply said they are boring.
Some little edit:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2lvbg34.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/0HxCz.png)
Mostly changing the color palette and adding stronger highlights to create more depth.
btw. dont be afraid to add colors, it's good to keep track of the colors you are using but restricting yourself to one palette won't bring you anything.
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Jumping on the green bandwagon...
I think that the upturned nose makes it look more mammalian. I strengthened the lines some, especially needed if the background's going to be as busy as the one they're on now. Removed banding, added aa and made the lightsource a bit more consistent. The headtail things are pretty annoying btw.
(http://i.imgur.com/IJEAI.gif)
e: and I added the spikes on the scythe to hide the jaggies.
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So I tried conjuring up a background tileset.
Problem is, I kind of suck at those.
Alas:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/a2aouw.gif)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/ir2xiq.gif)
Colors are wip, structure is wip, everything is wip. I don't even know.
I think I'll have to get this at least semi-finished before adapting the characters to it but for tonight, promotion has driven me insane enough.
Also I look a way a couple of hours and suddenly there's a million edits.
Will make edits tomorrow.
Thanks!
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If you put some shadows underneath them on that background, I think they'd look 100% better.
The skinny lizard looks a little off-balance -- her forward foot needs to be just a tad more... uh... forward. I think. Her center of balance looks to be just a little off to me.
I love that blue guy. Love love love him.
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What also barely helps is saying "there are anatomical issues" or "fix the anatomy" without elaborating.
Right then...
Mostly messing around with light levels here however. Parts of the sprite further away being darker than nearer parts would give it depth. Also gave the arm/pitchfork more speculars, got rid of distracting speculars on the neck and belly. Anatomy was squashed in/simplified, mostly the legs, so I tried to describe more of that through silhouette/lighting. It wasn't clear what you were going for with the arm (muscles/no muscles?), either way the lighting there didn't make sense. You might want to rotate the head towards us more, as it is it's looking a bit like a cyclops IMO. The pose is pretty static compared to the other two, feels like he should be leaning forward ready to strike.
(http://i.imgur.com/Kbrra.png)
If you're going for the golden axe style, and it kinda seems that way with the yellow lizard, you should ditch the outlines, except on the shadowed side, and add more colors. Avoid the pillow shading though.
Other than that these are pretty cool, keep up the good work!
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I just don't like how boring the colors are in the new one. It's not necessarily that they aren't saturated enough, it's more that the character only really has 2 color ramps. He's boring to look at as apposed to the earlier version that had much more going on with the greens and blues. It's just my opinion though.
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Alright some progress:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2lvbg34.gif)->(http://i40.tinypic.com/6gvnzt.gif)
And the background:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2n17yut.png)
Peer pressure made me go more into the green spectrum of yellow which made it blend too much into the quite green background though so I went more towards yellow again.
Darkening things a bit further away seems like a good idea. I accidentally did that on her belly before since I saw no other way of shading it.
Moving the left foot forward was a good idea as it also helps with the composition and that tentacle that went over the shoulder got removed.
Also about that comment about the ears looking too mamally, those things did not real as ears at all so I made them bigger.
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One quick thing, if I didn't read the title I would have no idea they're supposed to be lizards. The facial structure and lack of texture makes them look like mice or cats or something.
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I don't think I can/should work texture into this at that kind of size.
I'm not even sure if that's such a big issue after all but the new one does look a bit much like a mouse.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/6gvnzt.gif)(http://i43.tinypic.com/2ep6fcl.gif)(http://i42.tinypic.com/1o0rhy.gif)
So, croc face or penishead?
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Lizard heads are pretty easy, really.
(http://www.4freeimagehost.com/uploads/e9483f051cb6.png)
1. Draw a circle. It doesn't correspond to any real part of the skull, it's just a place holder for about where the head will be. As it turns out this one was too small, but that's ok, it's easy to correct later (step 5).
2. Draw a U-shape connected to the circle. This will be the snout. You can get a lot of variation based on the general shape. Long and thin looks a lot different than short and blunt. If you were making a dragon, you would use more of a duck bill shape. Don't worry about the shape too much, you will edit this later, but you generally want the lower jaw to be flatter than the upper snout line.
3. Draw the eye ridge. The eye ridge is the real key to making a lizard head. It sits on and covers the top of the circle. You can vary this by making it more curved, or flatter, or sharply angled.
4. Now add an eye spot and a mouth line. The eye sits where the snout, ridge, and circle all meet. The mouth splits the jaw, and the lower jaw is thinner than the upper jaw (because the upper jaw also has the nose). This should give you an idea of what the head will look like.
5. I adjusted the head by making the circle area larger, and raising the eye ridge a bit, also repositioned the eye. Mostly trying for the short blunt look in the original. I could have just made the snout shorter by a pixel, but the head was overall a bit small. This head is looking a bit dinosaur-ish, but it will do.
6. Moved the head and added the neck. Lizards tend to have a neck that sprouts from the back of the head rather than underneath. It's just one of those things that says 'lizard' rather than mammal. For a lizard-man, it is sufficient to pull the head forward on a long and angled neck. The weight distribution is balanced by the tail when standing. Since this fellow is a big heavy, I gave him a huge broad neck rather than a thin serpent neck.
7. Filled in solid colors. The eye gets a deep socket to suggest the width of the mouth (if it was viewed from the front).
8. Adjusted the shape again, making the snout stronger. This looks ok I think.
9. Added some bits like the ears. Lizards don't have much for ears, and big round ears look very mammalian. Small ears that look like little wings will preserve the shape of the long low skull and not detract too much, although they look a bit dragon-ish.
The nose horn is a bit off I think - there's just not enough pixels here to do it well, but I thought I'd add it in. I didn't add in the top knot because it again distracted from the basic shape of the head. A fin on the top of the skull would work ok though. Or if you wanted hair, maybe some sort of fringe or mane.
Oh, I shaded the neck some too to show how that looks. The highlights, eh, not so good.
To sum up, your blue guy has the head of a pig rather than a lizard. The large lower jaw, snub nose, rounded ears all say pig rather than lizard. The good news is that the basic semi-realistic lizard skull is pretty formulaic.
Hope this helps,
Tourist
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Thanks.
I know it looks mammalian but like I said, I don't think it's such a big issue. I thought the cow ears kind of gave that away?
Square Enix can go and sell those things (http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/4/46/FFIX-Burmecians_Concept.jpg) for "rats" after all and I believe there are enough reptilian cliches left to get the idea of "lizard people" across.
Yeah, there's some pig in the fat one. I thought that to be rather... fitting?
So yeah, realistic facial lizard anatomy? Not my priority here.
Some progress:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/211uzae.gif)->(http://i40.tinypic.com/149wqao.gif)
I tried to incorporate some pointers pistachio gave.
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Well, if you want them to look like lizards, not looking like lizards is kind of a big deal, and right now the only thing reptilian about the yellow one is the pointed tail. Otherwise you're on the right track.
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None of the edits I made to the yellow one are even close to reptilian?
What else can I do then?
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The original wasn't, the third is definitely more recognizable.
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I really like the current design, but if you go for lizard look, you will need some edits, I think.
1. Lizards have no ears. You would be better off to change them into some horns or somesuch. Lots of lizards have skin protrusions.
2. The legs. Lizards do not walk on their toes (except for some dinos I guess) It could stay, but IMHO walking on palms is more lizardly.
3. The scalyness. The current, smooth texture just doesnt communicate lizard to me.
I really like the current design, but they read to me as mice people.
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^Yup, I've been reading mice people the whole thread, too.
Not that the sprites look bad. They just don't look very lizardy to me.
Also, love the new avatar, 9_6. Very cool looking. =)
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You're on fire at the moment, :y: ton of work, swag new avatars and edits to boot.
The portly blue guy with the knife & fork weapons is pretty amusing although his head still looks a little strange in straight profile whilst the rest of his body is in 3 quarters, I almost parse him as a cyclops in full frontal. I was just going to edit that in but I have poor impulse control so I doodled a whole bunch of other stuff too because I really like the idea. In addition I think his arms are a bit short, particulary in the wrist, the purple I don't think works for the metal in shadow nor the yellow for the loin cloth; it's just too big a jump and I'd offset the feet more (vertically) in adherance to the perspective as well as remove the outlining from the soles to better integrate him into the ground.
The awesome hair-do conjured up this quite specific image of a bearded dragon Samurai, thats really my only excuse for all the stylistic stuff. If you still wanted to go more lizardy that's just kinda what I'd do.
Eagerly awaiting the complete scene, hopefully complete with Massiveaxe McMuscles as player-character :P.
(http://i.imgur.com/RMAbT.png)
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I was kinda done with the fat one I thought.
Now that you point towards the arm, that pixel perfectly vertically cut off arm does look rather odd I guess and it is a bit on the short side.
*sigh*
Regarding perspective, yeah that's pretty much how the sprites in the original golden axe were, almost frontal. Sometimes. Not always.
I always found that quirk to be rather odd.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/a0l24p.png)
I think that was because they used different walk animations for up- and down movement.
Walking straight forward by default has the "walk down" animation which just looks pretty weird sometimes so that's not something I might want, is it?
(http://i41.tinypic.com/10z1b12.png)
Golden axe 3 went sideview-walk only which pretty much fixed that.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/23idts3.gif)
Also notice how the shadow on the spear guy is all wrong?
I don't think placing the legs on too different levels vertically is that much of a good idea.
they read to me as mice people.
They just don't look very lizardy to me.
I already said something about that.
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Ha, I don't know much of the original's limitations you want to, or should imitate; there's certainly a lot of pretty poor or just plain weird technique in GA by modern standards and your sprites are already a lot more tasteful (the pink bird-shrimp-scooters :P). I just think the current head looks kinda cubist; perhaps it's because both nostrils are visable and the mouth is so curved as it might be from the front.
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VwwRBIXu1Jg/T17J5u2FDjI/AAAAAAAAA1o/HPZmZyLMEn8/s1600/LizardFighter.png)
Took a stab at making this character more reptilian.
May be a bit more iconic than what you are going for.
Also yours gives off a female vibe, which my edit does not help at all.
Sorry bout that!