Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: The Cold Mage on May 22, 2006, 06:01:18 pm
-
(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/icetemple/images/sephiroth_ac1.gif)
EDIT: fixed the hair.. thanks dhaos... and shortened the sword. a few other minor edits to the part of the coat that drapes behind him too. thanks for the suggestions people. i think i was really able to improve him =)
EDIT 2: fixed everything Dhaos suggested. unfortunately, its still Sephiroth =(
-
Wow cool sprite! There are some things wrong with the legs.. knees in particular and foot. But I love the pose and the hair!!
Good action movie..
-
I still think the hair needs work mr. magey one.
-
ok, this might come off harsh, but i'm not in a wordy mood and will straightly just get to the point: technically solid and the pallette works, though the skin portions could do with a little more contrast, BUT.. the sword is ridiculously long (seriously, c'mon, where would he put this thing, he'd probably lose a finger or two trying to put this thing into a sheath), the waist painfully thin and the torso is way too small either. i mean just look at the thighs, a single one is as thick as the waist itself. if it wasn't for this cramped and stiff sumostance he'd probably squash certain parts (considering the size of his knife though, it might already serve as a compensational means :P). also, the distance from the waistline to the top of the head normally is about equal to the distance from the waistline to the ankle, your legs here almost are twice as long. that the torso isn't big enough also shows at the shoulders, which are broader than the torso actually would allow here. his left shoulder is quite dislocated, hanging in the air. this is not meant to bash you in any way, but really just genuine critique and i hope that you will use it and benefit from it.
just don't let coolness get in the way of logic or reason :P
cheers
-
More hairs!
[EDIT]
(http://www.crystaltechstudios.com/temp/Edit_Coldmage_Sepiroth.gif)
I could really go crazy with this but I only added one more color to blend better...you could use like two more XD. Some hairs are a bit lump too, I didn't feel like restructring the bends in the hair...anyways have fun.
-
sephiroth does have a redicuously long sword. depending on the pics the sword is either about as long as he is tall or slightly longer. i think it usually depends on the perspective of the picture. in this rendition i wanted to capture its length and the slight curve on it while making it a little bit bigger at the end to give the illusion of it being tilted slightly forward.
i did some math. based on his profile, Sephiroth standing straight up is 6'1. so if he's bent at the knees a little he won't be that tall. i did a search on the length of the masaumune sword itself. the masaumune is roughly 68 inches which converts to about 5.6 feet. so his sword is slightly less long than he is tall.
sephiroth's design has some weird proportions. he is a tall skinny fellow and the little details on him create some odd illusions.
(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/icetemple/miscimages/sephmodel.gif)
as you can see the belt that closes his trenchcoat comes up higher up on his waist. and his legs are just really long. =P
-
i retract my statement in view of your staggering evidence but let me add: what an utterly stupid design :P
jesus, what an ugly design
-
lol, if you can't beat it, hate it XD
*waits for Camus' 7 chapter critique of my sprite*
-
Lol yeah, I can't wait for that one. *puts out big blinking blue light for camus*
-
I just checked with some quick graffix haxxing and It does look like your sword there is at least a bit longer than it should be, even if he was standing straight up it's a foot or two taller than he is. He also looks a bit too thick in the arms and the hands and feet are a bit oversized. If he were standing the way he is and his upper legs were going back as far as they look like they are he'd would fall over.
-
i was going for a bit of SF3 style so the feet and hands would be slightly bigger to accomidate that style
-
the way you tried to make the sword come toward the viewer also makes it look like the sword is ^ instead of straight.
-
That selout on the sword is really ugly, I don't think you really need it for the sword. At the very least you only need the next darker shade, and not that really dark one.
-
I love it. <3
-
when I was AAing this guy, i did it on a black BG. it helps with sprites that have darker colors, but i guess the side effect of that sets me up to AA the outsides too dark. you put it on a black BG though it looks great =P
-
Style or not, I still think it'd look better if they were just a tad smaller. I'd say it's rarely a good idea to let any "style" be more importance than aesthetics, especially if the style in question is an emulation of one not your own.
Ah, and here's why I say the sword's too long:
(http://paul.gerla.us/sephhy.gif)
I would also suggest always using a neutral BG color like grey or some really desaturated color. It makes a lot of things easier.
Oh, if I've come across as cranky, I didn't mean it that way, just trying to be helpful! :P
-
when I was AAing this guy, i did it on a black BG. it helps with sprites that have darker colors, but i guess the side effect of that sets me up to AA the outsides too dark. you put it on a black BG though it looks great =P
...then maybe you should put it on a black background.
But if you're going to put it on a transparent background, think about what would be friendliest to as many backgrounds as possible.
-
the sword is dumb, but it is sephiroth, so w/e
i personally loved FF7 more than any game, but i hated the character art direction. the costumes were cool, the style was crap. still though, in game, the only reason for the small torso is to make room for the big head. i think even in fanart, proper propotions still stand. the art for ff7 was some of the worst, and id advise against emulating it. costumes good, characters good, proportions? use ones that make sense.
-
lol, if you can't beat it, hate it XD
FF art direction stupid, Sepiroth stupid, long penisword stupid, haircuts stupid, clothes stupid. There's more to graphic design in video games than this. Rant out.
About the piece, as a fighter sprite, it stands pretty well, I don't think I could actually edit this to any pleasing effect... I'd just take the selout out. He's so dark and contrast-y you can place him on any background and he'll still pop out. Selout being useful is a myth.
-
Selout being useful is a myth.
i like to think of 'selout' practices only as a means of varying outline darkness; it serves little other porpose. Selout in traditional work is refered to as rudementary line-weight control, more or less an absolute must. in pixel art, it typically is just done as a one-way AA job that utterly fails in its purpose. Games like KoF and SF were simply trying to emulate this very sexy ability of traditional art media like pencil and ink, and it has often been misinterpreted and misused which leads to the crap 'selout' were used to. Proper understanding of selout only comes from working in these traditional media, and this really doesnt display it as anything but a not-so-great done-because-everyone-else-does technique.
still think the proportions could be made better unless you want to follow this art style, and also just noticed the color count is way too high, especially in the lower part of his coat
-
pixel art usually has too small items to have full outlines on without pushing the effect of some cartoony too-obvious outlining. So yes, we have line breaks to suggest outlines as needed. This falls under subpixel theory, really. These broken outlines should be lightsource dependent and all that, I see absolutely no reason for the whole 'selout' thing to exist as a self-contained technique. When it was first discussed pixelation was a different place. Capcom does a lot of selout and it goes with their high-saturation-all-over art, but it shouldn't be a needed skill of any pixel artist, not everybody's trying (or should be trying) to emulate Capcom, even if they do game art.
-
most of the sprite work i've done has been really boring low res type stuff for GBA and cell phones. i usually do these types of things for my portfolio just to impress the people i need to impress. there are a lot of capcom fanboys out there that have the ability to hire. this stuff just plays right into their hand. and if you can demonstrate you can actually follow a specific style, all the better. i don't think there's any shame in trying to recreate one design into another style.
but man you guys are really harsh o_o;;; i had no idea there was this underground hatred for FF7 art.
-
Yes, you are correct on the hiring thing. Knowing how to draw sepiroth cool like that will get you jobs, I'm pretty certain. The rant was off-topic, sorry if I pushed this thread in a wrong direction.
About underground FF hatred, I dunno if it exists, I know I'm extremely tired of this "homogenic deviant-art quasi-anime cool" thing going on on the internet in the last 5 years or so. Big-gun-sword wielding androgynous protagonists, perpetually 16 yrs old, every stance, every move a fashion statement. I just can't stomach all this, I wish for more idiosyncratic art direction in games.
But that may just be me.
-
it's not just you helm, but I disagree with the whole FF7 art style hating thing. I like the FF7 character designs.
lol, just for you helm (http://pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/avatar__r191246361.gif)
@The Cold Mage: it may seem harsh at first, but without harsh technical critcism then we wouldn't grow as pixel artists, as this is what pixelati..pixelopolis is all about.
-
Big-gun-sword wielding androgynous protagonists, perpetually 16 yrs old, every stance, every move a fashion statement.
whats are you talking about? the overdramatized stress from the sexual tension between me and my cute but underage half-demon female supporting character is really bringing back the amnesia that i suffered from after my father mysteriously dissappeared, only to turn up again as the main villains assistant. Im going to wear my hair in front of my face and spew elipses until the player gets tired of playing the game and watches untranslated escaflone until square enix makes a low-budget sequel to my already trite story. you can unlock me in super smash brothers if you collect all 87 of the magic stones.
that being said, i love rpg's, even if most of them are the same sucky game. I tihnk somebody should make a new game with the main character as a ruggedly handsome leather-wearing badass from the streets of Majorcity, USA who is good at heart but has gotten on the wrong side of the law. THATS one we havent seen before. ANd actually i tihnk that FF7 gets credit for being from 1997 and having most characters at or above drinking age[/color]
ok, time for something on topic. Cold, i dont think the criticisms offered were intended to malicious or even harsh, simply honest. if you are build a portfolio, then this is not the way to go, because there isnt a scrap of originality in it. People dont want to see someone who can do what everyone else has already done pretty much as well as the original, they want to see YOU. a portfolio is a compilation of the artist's self and should reflect that, at least in my mind. you may get jobs for being able to do final fantasy, but do you really want to be recognized as the guy that did "that somewhat better than average sephiroth?"
-
the technical critiques are well taken, stuff as it pertains to how i rendered the details, usage of color, etc. but if I'm trying to make the sprite look like something, it shouldn't be my fault that i made it look like that thing just because you don't like what that thing is. i don't need to be told what should be in my portfolio because as of now I have 5 paid independent projects going on based on the merits of my work and experience exemplified by what is in my portfolio. i think its arbitrary to criticize my rendition of sephiroth simply because it is sephiroth or some other FF7 design. a lot of people happen to like FF7 and the art that came from that game. a lot of those people actually happen to be individuals I've been hired by. i really doubt anyone who's open minded enough to look for talent to work on a game is going to limit themselves to totally original designs and totally unique styles. quite the contrary, they often use other games or styles as points of reference.
this sprite actually originated out of a challenged i put forth on another forum. the whole concept being to take a common design everybody knows (Sephiroth) and just see what people do with it. as it turns out nobody's entry will be judged on how much they love or hate sephiroth, but on how well they capture the given design, and how well it looks based on the technical art stuff; kind of like the way all of my employers or clients have expected me to take designs they've come up with or trademarked designs like Dragon Ball GT characters and do the pixel art.
so critique the work on the artistic elements, not the subject i chose... to do otherwise would be ridiculous.
-
The subject is an artistic element, and i hope that you dont consider the number of jobs you have as a measure of talent, anyone can get as many jobs as they have hours to work on them and they know how to sign their name on the bottom line.
Also, you should know that the criticisms were not based on the fact that FF7 art is pretty awful, but that the points you chose to emulate were ones that really should be left out for the sake of making something good. 99% of being a game artist is making changes to the client's design while working towards what they desire. the point here that people i believe were trying to make is that you can either do the same thing thats been done a billion times before, or if you must do the character at least make the character look as good as you can, and that involves taking criticisms on things like proportions. As far as not judging your work because it has the same flaws as the thing you are emulating, that is rediculous, a flaw is a flaw. You may write it off as a style point, and you may choose not to act on a single critique, nobody can force you.
-
lol, whatever, i still think you're being silly :P
-
Actually, it's a very valid point. You can't dismiss critiques on flaws just because they were parts of the original design.
-
Hair looks solid and imposiible at the pose.
-
Yes what Adarias says is very valid (as is most of the other stuff he says). In this particular piece, to me it looks like the style is being used as a crutch.
-
Think of every portfolio piece as a solution to an artistic problem. You're bringing flair to a subject while showcasing technique. Things like ninjas, robots, and fan art from x anime, all tend to be very easy solutions. Unless you can show a very different angle to them, they shouldn't be the backbone of your portfolio. Focus on original pieces and unusual designs, because these will show you as an artist, not an imitator. Bringing life to mundane subjects is the skill of a good artist. In any portfolio, a cloud can tell me more about the artist than Cloud can.
-
I was going to edit it some to show that his right knee is still logically broken. However after having loaded it into PSP and zooming in, I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole.
-
Hmm I've been following this thread and I want to see if I can piece together the crits that have been given:
[GENERAL CRITS]
-selout is too strong (possibly remove it)
-his proportions are bit too exaggerated
-pose is awkward (legs should be straighter?)
-hair flows unusually (similiar to that of tentacles/tendrills)
-sword was too long compared to offical art
[OTHER CRITS]
-sepiroth is a poor piece to be used for portfolio purposes
-squenix/final fantasy uses poor/exaggerate proportions/designs
-aethetics should overrule style/design
It would seem the primary purpose for his fighter sprite, of Sepiroth, was for a contest about Sepiroth (of which I am also participainting in). Almost all of the critiques in this thread appear to be geared toward porfolio bulding which was only the secondary purpose for this piece.
Coldmage initally set this thread up so he could get advice on how to improve his sprite *of* Sepiroth for the said contest. He has recieved about 4 general types of comments, each of which were repeated several times, regarding this (posted above).
He has recieved twice that in comments regarding 'sepiroth has a poor design, final fantasy 7 had a horrible art direction/proportoins etc.' and numerous comments regarding his porfolio. It would seem he could care less what other artists think of his porfolio... he just wants ideas on improving his sprite.
Many people enjoy the psudo-anime look while just as many others enjoy more normal traditional looks. I don't think it benefits anyone to criticize the proportions so long as they match the given style the artist was aiming for.
Here are some more comments on the sprite magey, I hope these actually help you:
-Since the sprite is set to match pixeltendo's background, the bg should have remained a solid dark color (removal of the transparent bg is reccomended.)
-Sepiroth's left foot should be further back to provide greater balance in his stance.
(however it is possible to stand like that, more or less a 'squat' position)
-Sepiroth's left tripcept appears disconnected from the body (as if it doesnt reach the lats)
(remedy by adding a few pixels on the left side of the tricept so it connects closer to the torso)
-Adding a few shines to his sword would make it appear more dynamic
-Consider removing 1px of the bottom edge of each shoe (it would make them more roundish)
-The shouldpads seem to be shaded somewhat oddly/messy. It is hard to dicern their exact shape in their current state of shading.
-
The stance just looks awkward to me. Not that it's bad but it doesn't seem interesting in any sort of way. There's no movement towards a constant. What I mean by that is one focal area of the image where all momentum/energy is drawn towards. For example in an image of a man running we would get a sense of momentum in the legs and arms, but at the same time, the body would also be moving forward -- all these key areas would be heading towards a specific constant.
Here Sephiroth has his hair moving in one direction. His coat seems to blow blissfully in another. His legs are moving apart and his arms are also moving in separate directions. Aesthetically the stance is just not pleasing.
However I think with the amount of work you've already obviously put into this piece; that's quite a bold statement. So I will say that you did a great job with the color selection and the shading is top notch too.
The stance is just not to my liking.
-
you know to be honest, i really didn't give the pose much thought. i just kinda threw some sketchy lines down and started shading everything in. i could have gone with the standard sephiroth pose where he stands up straight and holds the sword with both hands near his face, but even i felt like i could change it up a bit.