Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: StarRaven on November 28, 2010, 04:05:34 am
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Hello! I'm just practicing some pixelling and I don't really know anyone else who who knows anything about it, so I came here to look for help making it better. :3 Here's the sprite I was working on today:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106548.png)
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Here's some concept art of her, to show you where I'm coming from:
(http://toolkitzone.com/vault/games/images/12612.jpg)
Thank you! I might work on some animations for her too.
Started on a running animation...
http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106549.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106549.gif)http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106550.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106550.gif)
Something weird about it but I can't put my finger on it. Started blocking in colors, but something is still bugging me....
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Yip, I really like this and it's v. v. good.
I think the ears need a wee bit more contrast to make them standout slightly from the hair as, currently, they just look like part of the hair.
Same with the eyes - they need to stand out more.
Finally, this may seem silly - in the concept art, the legs are slender..but they seem a bit more chunkier and athletic in the pixel version.
Minor things, but keep going, looking forward to seeing the animation.
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Well, that's a very masculine way of running, for one. It's also quite cartoony despite the sprite being disney movie realistic.
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Mostly a color edit:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/28typas.png)
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Also a color edit. Pushing the contrast in hues a bit.
(http://cubeupload.com/files/3b970c106548orig.png)
I agree about separating the ears from the hair. Maybe use the skin colors for some or all of the ears.
Tourist
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I try to kill most of your beautifull softy colors to enable contrast power, keeping the most your palette. Also, what about that black powerfull line outside? Check the one without it and tell me.
(http://oizemilio.com.elserver.com/images/chica%20pixelation.png)
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Yip, I really like this and it's v. v. good.
I think the ears need a wee bit more contrast to make them standout slightly from the hair as, currently, they just look like part of the hair.
Same with the eyes - they need to stand out more.
Finally, this may seem silly - in the concept art, the legs are slender..but they seem a bit more chunkier and athletic in the pixel version.
Minor things, but keep going, looking forward to seeing the animation.
Thank you! I've always drawn the ears like that, I guess, even in most of my concepts... I'll try to work on it! Speaking of concepts, this one was drawn while I was experimenting with other styles, so the sprite is actually more along the lines of how I usually draw her, hehe. It's a good view of her outfit, though. :3 She's very athletic, so I think that look fits her better.
Well, that's a very masculine way of running, for one. It's also quite cartoony despite the sprite being disney movie realistic.
"Disney movie realistic"? ??? You're right about the run. I'll give it another shot...
Thank you to everyone for the help! :D I worked on the colors, especially the eyes:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106548.png)(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106555.gif)
Original, new.
Thank you for all of the edits! They were very helpful. In some of them, though, her eyes ended up looking quite green. (They're supposed to be yellow, but it's really tough to give them enough contrast....) I actually really like the black outline, myself, but that's mostly personal preference. Does it look bad?
I'm still working on the animation... no update on that yet.
http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106562.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106562.gif)
Restarted it. This look a little more girly? Still thinking about the arms.
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Quick edit to make it notable
(http://oizemilio.com.elserver.com/images/chica%20pixelation2.png)
In order to make it visible, contrast. Darker eyes = whitest skin. That's why in many animes girls with yellow eyes have dark skin, otherwise their big eyes and/or iris have strong dark outlines. As in that scale you don't have the room to do that, you must make her eyes darker. If is for a game you can always use interludes or other things to make the user know about her eyes.
Also tell us in wich resolution an size of monitor you expect to see that image, as if is very tiny, don't forget that it doesn't matter what you see with zooming, the eye will mix the colors and create new ones.
P.D.: Not at all, it doesn't look bad, I just were trying to show you.
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In order to make it visible, contrast. Darker eyes = whitest skin. That's why in many animes girls with yellow eyes have dark skin, otherwise their big eyes and/or iris have strong dark outlines. As in that scale you don't have the room to do that, you must make her eyes darker. If is for a game you can always use interludes or other things to make the user know about her eyes.
Yes, I'm not too worried about showing the exact color of her eyes with the sprite. I don't want them to look green though, hehe. I tried outlining them in brown a bit; does it look better?
I thought of changing her skin color; I made her more tan but her eyes just looked worse, I gave her dark skin and I had trouble getting her hair and clothes to look right. I'm pretty happy with her how she is now, at least in regards to character design. :3
Thank you very much for all the advice! ;D
Edit: These were the alternate colors I considered:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106567.gif)
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hmmm, those eyes...
(http://oizemilio.com.elserver.com/images/cha.png)(http://oizemilio.com.elserver.com/images/cha2.png)(http://oizemilio.com.elserver.com/images/cha3.png)
what about now?
P.D.: By this moment I can only think that she haves an scar on his torso, am I wrong?
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Well, I'm not going to use that color scheme anyway (well, maybe an alternate costume?) so I guess it doesn't matter too much.
Yes, she has a scar on her torso. Is it readable enough? :)
What does "P.D." mean? At first I thought you misspelled "P.S." but now you've used it twice... ???
Started blocking out colors on the run animation. Head's a bit big at the moment, I know, but does all the movement look right?
http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106578.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106578.gif)http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106580.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106580.gif)
Update: Started on some shading and lengthened the arms some... still not sure they look right....
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I guess the walking is preaty good, basically the diference you have made is in the arms, as mens usually extend more their arms and girls stretch them to their bodies. The legs and tail seems ok for me, but the other things still have something that make them look like sketch animation, I guess that is her stomach that bounces like jelly (mmm.... :D ::)).
P.D.: sorry about the PDs, it's the same thing as P.S. but in spanish...
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Just a quick thought: if tails are supposed to help balance the creature, shouldn't they try to counteract the hip sway by swishing to the left when the hips are to the right and vice versa?
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Just a quick thought: if tails are supposed to help balance the creature, shouldn't they try to counteract the hip sway by swishing to the left when the hips are to the right and vice versa?
In her case, the tail is really more of a cosmetic thing. And I think if it's for balance, it shouldn't be swinging all over the place at all, but I thought it made for a better effect. Just in case, though, I did one with the tail swinging in the opposite direction:
http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106596.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106596.gif)http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106601.gif (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106601.gif)
Which one looks better?
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Definitely the counterpoint one.
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Definitely the counterpoint one.
This is starting to look very neat. But i think that her "jugs" should have a "bounce" to them not a big bounce but a small bounce. Because when a female walks they do not stay in one place.
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Disagree. The breasts move quite enough imo.
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After further inspection. They do move enough guess you couldn't see it that well? or it was because it was late and i was tired. Ignore my comment before this.
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Definitely the counterpoint one.
Er... hmm. Is that the left one or the right one? D:
I think in the original one, it's moving with the hips, with only the tip swinging around, whereas the new one looks like the whole tail is... er... floppy? I'm not entirely sure which one is correct. Either way it needs a bit of cleaning up to make it a little more fluid.
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106645.gif)
I think I got it this time. Am I heading in the right direction?
Sorry for the bajillions of tiny updates. ^ ^;
Here's something else:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106597.gif)
The first and last frames will have to be replaced with idle animations,, and I'd like to have an "untransform" sort of animation rather than just a quick flip back to the beginning, and I'll have to add some more frames and clean up the movement quite a bit, but how is the concept? Any suggestions?
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Might have to take a break from animations when I'm done here, this has been pretty draining, heh. Maybe I should consider a four-frame walk animation... I don't know if I have the resolve to get through a process like this for every character in the game. ^ ^;
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106665.gif)
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Maybe I should consider a four-frame walk animation... I don't know if I have the resolve to get through a process like this for every character in the game. ^ ^;
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106665.gif)
NNOOOOOOOOOooooooo!
The current run cycle has so much character, and with the slightest bit of cleanup and a bit of work on the belly would be amazing. I promise that once you get in the groove of things, and are comfortable with the animation style it will get a million times easier. On another note, Im assuming this is for an RPG, yes? What is your target platform/what are you making it in? Do you have a team you are working in or are you going to try and tackle the task of making an RPG from top to bottom as a solo venture?
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NNOOOOOOOOOooooooo!
The current run cycle has so much character, and with the slightest bit of cleanup and a bit of work on the belly would be amazing. I promise that once you get in the groove of things, and are comfortable with the animation style it will get a million times easier. On another note, Im assuming this is for an RPG, yes? What is your target platform/what are you making it in? Do you have a team you are working in or are you going to try and tackle the task of making an RPG from top to bottom as a solo venture?
Well, it's not 100% finished yet, still needs detailing/cleaning up. I hope you're right, that it'll get easier once I get in the groove, hehe. I'm glad you like it. The more I stare at it, the more I think something might be horribly wrong with it. D:
Yes, it is for an RPG. ;D It's for computer. I was working with someone else, who was supposed to be doing the programming, but long story short, I'm on my own now. :(
Also, I'm going to go through and turn some of these animated images into links; it looks like they're starting to slow each other down or something.
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Im pretty sure its just the torso/stomach wiggle thats a problem. The left arm (our left, not hers) COULD use some tweening, right now it kinda jumps from bent to fully extended a little fast, but it wouldnt be that noticeable in a game, without me staring at it in place at some ridicules zoom.
If you want a coder/audio monkey shoot me a PM, Iv been wanting to make an RPG for awhile, but I always get bogged down creating the art assets and loose interest before I have much done (basically, I make the main character and like one party member, and enough tiles for an area then start on NPCs and say screw this. I usually already have the engine done at that point too, so its just making the characters and plugging stuff in.)
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Im pretty sure its just the torso/stomach wiggle thats a problem. The left arm (our left, not hers) COULD use some tweening, right now it kinda jumps from bent to fully extended a little fast, but it wouldnt be that noticeable in a game, without me staring at it in place at some ridicules zoom.
I think I've finally fixed it.
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106702.gif)
It should just be her hips moving now. I'll tweak the arm a tad to match the right one better.
If you want a coder/audio monkey shoot me a PM, Iv been wanting to make an RPG for awhile, but I always get bogged down creating the art assets and loose interest before I have much done (basically, I make the main character and like one party member, and enough tiles for an area then start on NPCs and say screw this. I usually already have the engine done at that point too, so its just making the characters and plugging stuff in.)
Hehehe, you too? I'm the same, except that I've been working on the same rpg for a while now. XD I've got characters designed, got a good idea of what I want to do, but then I'll start on tiles and sprites and get stuck somewhere and then drop it for a while, and then by the time I pick it up again I'm like, "Ugh, what was I thinking? Better redo this stuff...." and then I never get anywhere. 8D Fun fun. This is the third time I've redesigned the sprites. Hahaha~
I kind of suck at programming, honestly. XD I mean, I'm not completely code-retarded but something like building my own engine would probably be way beyond me. I'm using the RPG Toolkit, and I've been designing and coding my own systems because the engine's default ones are a bit lackluster. *rambles* Anyhoo, I may indeed send you a PM. This game is one I've sort of determined to tackle myself, but a collaborative project at some point would be amazing. ;D
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This is a bit besides the topic but if you want my opinion, from all the types of games you can attempt to make on your own or in teams of two, a 20 hour jrpg is one of the most improbable ones to reach completion. Have you considered something of a smaller scope?
Also if you're getting stuck in that 'ugh what was I thinking, complete redo of art assets' loop you might want to hone your skills for a year or two before you sit down to make a game that'll take you 2~3 years to finish. Just to get on that certain level when even when you look back at your art you won't be annoyed by it being too bad.
All that said, I think your end sprite here is stellar, has lots of character and a nonstandard animation, which is a boon. Why not make something where you only have to animate 3-4 characters to such finish instead of an rpg?
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This is a bit besides the topic but if you want my opinion, from all the types of games you can attempt to make on your own or in teams of two, a 20 hour jrpg is one of the most improbable ones to reach completion. Have you considered something of a smaller scope?
That's all right. I'm glad to have the opinion. ;D To be honest, it's never really occurred to me to try to make anything but an rpg. I can't think of another genre that would allow me to practice the skills I want to the way an rpg can - those skills being pixelling, character design, story writing, and worldbuilding. In the end, I don't know if this game will ever see the light of day, but in the meantime, it is allowing me to practice my skills, which is really the point of it. ;D On that note, though, I would still love to work on something else that is more likely to actually get finished (in a reasonable amount of time), especially if it means I can work with someone else. Collaborating is my favorite thing about working on a game! (Well, next to character design, hehehe!)
Also if you're getting stuck in that 'ugh what was I thinking, complete redo of art assets' loop you might want to hone your skills for a year or two before you sit down to make a game that'll take you 2~3 years to finish. Just to get on that certain level when even when you look back at your art you won't be annoyed by it being too bad.
You're probably right, here. I don't know if I can really just hone my skills without working toward a goal, though. If I wasn't working on this game, I wouldn't know what to pixel, haha. I'm reasonably sure that at some point, I'll hit that wall at which I stop improving. Until then, I'll keep doing and redoing until I'm happy. It's the only way to find the perfect style, I think.
All that said, I think your end sprite here is stellar, has lots of character and a nonstandard animation, which is a boon. Why not make something where you only have to animate 3-4 characters to such finish instead of an rpg?
That's wonderful to hear! :lol:
All excuses aside, you're still very right. What sort of game would you suggest as an alternative? I've seen a lot of work on sidescrollers, but I've never had an idea for one myself. I'm not sure where I'd start. ???
Wow, I wrote an awful lot. :o Anyway, I know it's a bit off-topic, but I enjoy the discussion nonethless. Sorry about the lack of a sprite in this update! D: I shall include a new character in the next post to make up for it! :D
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and I'd like to have an "untransform" sort of animation rather than just a quick flip back to the beginning, and I'll have to add some more frames and clean up the movement quite a bit, but how is the concept? Any suggestions?
First, congrats for your adorable character.
I suggest for untransformation that the "fox" turns around so that the head is hidden and then the lady reveals spinning and raising.
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Yep, it's a great-looking animation :) Small problem that caught my eye: The ears dangle around a lot, what's up with that? It makes them look like removable props attached to the hair instead of the head. IMO the ears should follow the head movement more or less rigidly.
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Oh, I love it! ;D especially how the hair kinda bounces in the running animation. the motion looks very natural to me, so it's a good sprite. :3
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You can take all the aspects of the RPG you like and put them towards a shortform game. Something that takes 30-40 minutes to play, a condensed RPG if you will. Just one town, one set of npcs, one dungeon, one bit of wilderness. Will give you the chance to form your characters more and also give you the chance to ever finish it. Just a thought.
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Are you suggesting that StarRaven makes an RPG WITHOUT ANY GRIND??? BLASPHEMY!
If it doesn't take 200+ hours to win, it's not worth playing (or making)!
:)
Seriously though, I agree with the shortform idea.
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Gah. I meant to get this done, but I've been unexpectedly busy the last few days. D: In the meantime, though, here's a WIP for a "cute little girl" character's run cycle:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/106748.gif)
Erm. I totally need to redo those legs. I really didn't look at those closely enough. For now, though, does the arm movement look okay?
The short form RPG is a good idea! ;D That's kind of how I'm working at the moment, anyway. One little area at a time. I figured if I can get one town, one wilderness, and one set of characters, I'll script a short game around that. :) If I want to make more stuff after that, I'll try to add to it.
Are you suggesting that StarRaven makes an RPG WITHOUT ANY GRIND??? BLASPHEMY!
If it doesn't take 200+ hours to win, it's not worth playing (or making)!
Hoo boy, I hate grinding. D: I wouldn't make anything that took more than 3-4 hours to beat, max. I start getting frustrated on games at about the 10 hour mark. :'( "Less is more."
I suggest for untransformation that the "fox" turns around so that the head is hidden and then the lady reveals spinning and raising.
That sounds like a good idea! I'll give it a try! ;D
Yep, it's a great-looking animation :) Small problem that caught my eye: The ears dangle around a lot, what's up with that? It makes them look like removable props attached to the hair instead of the head. IMO the ears should follow the head movement more or less rigidly.
You're probably right. I think I pretty much just did it like that because I thought it looked cute, heh. I'll try a version with the ears less floppy to see how it looks! Thank you very much!
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If you want to do a full length rpg, but actually get something done, I would recommend going episodic. You could set it up so your saves from the last episode (or chapter or what have you) import into the next one, and that way if you get fed up with the artstyle mid-way through, you arent starting over from square one, just suddenly chapter X will look different.
As for the new animation, Im not really having problems with the leg movement, but Im confused as to what is going on with the arms, it kinda looks like she is just flailing them around. It might be that when she is fully blocked in and there is some perspective being created by the size of them it suddenly makes sense, but Im not really getting a read right now.
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I say make Short length pixel show out of it :) That would be a neat idea or make it like zez said and do chapters, That way it is short but can still be a bigger story
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;D Episodes are a great idea! In that case, I won't be needing the little girl sprite for a while (unless I make kid NPCs or somethin... hm.)
Well anyhoo, I've been working on some menus and programming and stuff, but I'm back to this now. The south-facing one still isn't 100% done, but I'm taking a break on it... ^ ^;;
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/107081.gif)
Also started on a portrait for her:
(http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/107092.gif)
She won't actually be naked, armless, and boring, haha. I haven't started on the clothes yet and this is her "expressionless" expression. D:
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Although the portrait is high-quality so far, you're taking a major design turn by replacing the "manga/anime" look of all your former arts in favour of realistic eyes. It usually breaks the immersion in the game's environment when you do so because it makes the sprite claim "I'm not what you see, right ? people with such big eyes do not really exists".
Imvho, the sketch paint you posted earlier, while being not pixel art, provided a better base for a portrait in discussions or for box art, etc.
PS: shouldn't the head be more pointing forwards in the side-view run animation ? having the body getting straighter above the waist is somewhat curious and un-natural...
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Yeah, still a touch unnatural. Also,
twist the hip more.
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Although the portrait is high-quality so far, you're taking a major design turn by replacing the "manga/anime" look of all your former arts in favour of realistic eyes.
Them are manga/anime eyes, they just are not the chibi effected anime eyes.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/261ca4j.png)
This is what i feel.
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(http://toolkitzone.com/vault/games/images/12612.jpg)
I think you should stick to your original design. What you have right now looks like Sakura from Naruto. I would've much rather you animated the skinny version but it's too late for that now. What you can do though is make her face more unique. Super imposing her original face style on the new portrait could look really good.
As for your run cycles. The arms seem to be forcing themselves forward and it's making it look robotic though it only seems to be noticeable on the left side(her right arm) (made an edit)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/107081edit.gif) (http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/107081.gif)
I edited the face and the arm motion I was talking about. I'll let you be the judge of whether or not it's improved. If you do like it feel free to use it I don't mind or you can edit directly over it till it's more to your liking.
As for the blue run (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/bluerunedit.gif) I changed the swing of the front arm. I left the back arm the same for comparison sake. Also I changed the legs just a bit. Furthermore because her legs don't push back on frames 1,4 there is no power to the run. Instead she tucks her leg in which doesn't have the same effect. It's kinda floaty not bad if that's what you want.
Once again use it or edit what I have if you like it.
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:-\ The blue run base needs to lean forward a little, to give it that "controlled fall" kind of look that natural running has. look through some manga or how-to-draw books that have running poses in profile, and you'll see what I mean.
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I think her legs should come in front of her loin cloth a bit in the frames where her legs are farthest from her body. As of now it doesn't really seem to be affected by her legs, it looks like it's in a pendulum swing in front of her. The loin cloth doesn't seem to follow the bends of the legs either (around her waist).
Great progress, I like watching it progress :).
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Agreed. However, that's just a minor detail that won't be picked up on in a game, unless the player is looking for the flaws. I would still fix it a little, though.