Pixelation
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: cdi on April 08, 2006, 01:33:12 pm
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look all through http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=1089.0 and http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1925&PN=1 and tell me where I said that I DIDN'T rip this, true I did sit in front of my TV with "Streets of Rage 2" for a few hours on end with a piece of GP (no computer at home, only library comps, luckly they have PhotoShop Elements 2.0) copying the pixels I saw. I never said this wasn't a rip, or that I wasn't intending to give credit where credit was due (as soon as I could find the credits for SoR2 and it's pixelarists) It's nice that you all jump to very very bad conclusions though... Nice to know that people here and at pixeljoint tend to be mean people that won't even wait for an explanation, or even reasoning first... And for the red outline, it WAS a picture of a wrestler (Max is a wrestler) I thought I was being clear, but I am bad with words no? Well, there you go, nice fun stuff huh? (as for full explanations of thoughts/actions upon these events you can PM me because it's long, drawn out, and I don't feel like telling everyone in a community I'm not into trusting fully anymore)
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Would you like some cheese with your whine sir?
Someone forgot to include this one...
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=707.450
You claimed that you spent weeks on this and it took you a couple of tries to get right, yet it was quickly discovered that you simply altered the colours round from an existed sprite someone else created. You didn't say "Hey, here's a sprite I made based off such and such", no you just claimed it was all your own work. No one likes blatent plagiarism and the topic above shows you blatently ripping off someone elses work and claiming it as your own. If you're wondering where the hostility came from, look no further. Mind you, you blamed your cousin, or was it your brother... Hang on, let me just check... Nope it was your friend, so even if that's true you were ripping off a friend by saying "This took me weeks to do" because as you say, your friend supposedly did it, well ripped it...
Damn, that's a nice hole...
Anyway no one will hate you for using references, infact you'd be incouraged to do so. End of the day you should have posted the original piece you used as a reference, especially if you used segments from it as you did in the wrestler case. It would be far easier if you explained what you did, rather than making bullshit excuses up and passing the book onto others when you get caught out.
End of the day you got caught out, deal with it and learn from it. Create your own work, even if it it's an edit, say so and post the original and then get crits and help, that's the sole purpose of this place, not to get "OMFG U R TEH PIXELS ART MASTERZ!!1!!". Otherwise anything you post infuture people are going to think "Did he really do this?"
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Stop making silly threads like this and start pixelling. I'm sure people will forgive you if you just show that you can make something on your own and put some effort in it. If you want to do edit of others work, then do so but don't post them here.
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Don't blame people who sounded "mean" with you for your own mistakes. Yes, your mistakes. If you were to explain or clarify people something, the most reasonable time to do it would be on your first post. It seems very suspicious for someone to show their ripped "works" and say nothing about it; there is a difference between saying "Hi, this is some of my work, I'm a beginner so I still just make edits" and saying "Hi, this is my work, C+C". And I really doubt you forgot to say it was ripped =P
And if you think the level of comments is too harsh here, then you've got to go to another community. I'm serious. There are plenty of forums and discussion boards where sprite edits are welcome.
Edit: And Esker has just posted before me =P
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@Esker - That one I had already explained. And I would've posted my refrence but I assumed that the SoR2 sprites where well known and people would have seen it and known that I was using them as a base.
@Seven - And I assumed it'd be understood that I was a "beginner"....
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See, you should really read posts carefully... :
You didn't say "Hey, here's a sprite I made based off such and such", no you just claimed it was all your own work.
It seems very suspicious for someone to show their ripped "works" and say nothing about it
And the best one:
Stop making silly threads like this and start pixelling.
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He's doing the old "It's everybody elses fault but mine" routine.
I seriously think he should consider a career in politics. From what I've seen he'd be well suited to it. He ignores the main gist of what was said to answer something irrelevant, he blames everyone else and he claims things as his own when they are not.
Seriously he has all the qualities right there. ;D
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I'm not saying it's not MY fault, it is. I'm just saying I took too many liberties with how much I guessed others could deduce by themselves... Maybe I shold just go back to coding and PA in GS for calcs... seems to suit me better, and I don't have to explain everything...
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Psst, we're not buying it. Furthermore, most of us could give a flip if you did it or not. The argument from you seems to be "I didn't rip, i did XYZ" while we're telling you "XYZ - citing reference = ripping". It's pretty simple.
From one human being to another, I strongly suggest you put it behind you and start making original pixels. I fail to see how dragging it up in the general forum of all places is going to help... we really don't buy into forum soapboxing and drama here. We have people here that were caught ripping as beginners and are now constructive forum members. It happens, nobody's branding you for life. If you decide to get over it and get into the groove with us, then cool, welcome aboard. If you decide to keep whining about your bruised ego until we believe you, then go away.
We aren't mean, we're really awesome, helpful people and I'd take a bullet for everyone here at once. We're good to most of our newbies because most of us have been here for years, and were brand new when we joined. The major difference between you and most of our newbies? You ripped. Repeatedly. End of story.
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From the mod squad I am probably the one who is most fervently against art theft and ripping and I want to keep it as far away from this forum as possible. My first impulse is to lock this, add another strike to your record and wait patiently until you rip again before having you banned. This is because it's been empyrically the case that people who rip very rarely go back to doing their own art if they're caught. But maybe you'll be different, so I'll play nice.
Recognize these facts, though:
It's not our fault we didn't just assume you ripped from Streets of Rage. It's your fault not mentioning it. Citing inspiration, influences and reference in the first post is customary on almost all the art fora on the net.
The words we need to see come out of you are 'I apologize for the ripping AND the resulting internet drama, I promise to not do it again.'
Even then, if you do remain around here and start doing your own work, it'll be a while before other people start trusting you and treating you as they treat other members. But it'll get there eventually, because the people on this forum are nice.
Lastly, you don't HAVE to do pixel art. If your ambition reaches as far as ripping and editing, then it's maybe clear you could do that in your own private space, not ask for critique and go on your merry life with this unorthodox hobby. Here come people who desire to become better than they are and they understand the hard work involved. Think about this. Maybe it IS better to go back to programming or whatever else you're doing there.
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@Seven - And I assumed it'd be understood that I was a "beginner"....
I'm just saying I took too many liberties with how much I guessed others could deduce by themselves...
Are you saying that just because you're a beginner we should've expected you to rip/copy/edit/whatever the heck you wanna call it? That's not really the case. I mean, sure, it's how alot of people start off, but it doesn't really help you get better, and it's never 'expected' of anyone, even beginners.
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It's nice that you all jump to very very bad conclusions though... Nice to know that people here and at pixeljoint tend to be mean people that won't even wait for an explanation, or even reasoning first...
sorry to add onto this, i feel everyone else has made pretty strong points.
but i just wanted to add that we shouldnt have to wait for an explanation.
this forum is based for people doing their own original work therefore we dont need to know where the idea comes from most times.. however, since you ripped and we caught you, thats different. we found the cheat, and called you on it. however, since you felt comfortable posting your rip/edit, but did not know who created it, AND since you said you were going to find it out and give your 'explanation' shouldnt you have done that all in one post, opposed to posting the art waiting abit then explaning. people caught you, you originally didnt clarify anything, and now your trying to back peddle.
youd be surprised.. combined as a community we have probably seen everything pixelled, therefore trying to rip becomes quite difficult.
dont do it.
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It's nice that you all jump to very very bad conclusions though...
Maybe if you gave us a piece of information that would prove our conclusions false, then I'd agree with you. I'm pretty much with the rest on this though because you are trying to throw the blame at us for not being sympathetic with you. Basically, do something original and you won't have to go through this. You brought it on yourself. Twice.
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I think a factor in this drama might've been the double standard used in most sprite editing boards.
not stating the use of a base from a commercialy released game is generally ok around there, and it's almost taken as a game and a skill/knowledge test to see if people can really guess what is customized and what isnt.
On the other hand not stating the use of a "full custom"(something made by another internet indy spriter) IS frowned upon like any fraud should be.
I think it's partly to exclude people who arent really into sprite editing, both people who make everything from scratch and take pride in it, and the begginers who still dont know all of the games from which it is customary to take art from.
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Since this thread has lived up to it's premise I might as well ask camus, since you frequent (I assume?) such places, has anyone actually benefited substantially from editing other people's work on fora or 'custom'izing them as you say? Has anyone grown to be a great pixel artist that way? If so, links.
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@helm: I can think of four people that became pretty good artists from ripping/editing initially: me, coldmage, ahruon, and valentine enigma. Magey used to do megaman edits, ahruon did narikiri dungeon2/3 edits, val did disagea, rmkxp edits, and kof edits. The majority of us grew out of it after less than a year, however, since we wanted to do 'better' than what we were editing.
mage's current work: http://www.freewebs.com/icetemple/
ahruon's current work: http://usuarios.lycos.es/cardgallery/main.htm
val's work is on my hd she doesnt have a gallery
my old shit: http://www.crystaltechstudios.com
When we all begin pixeling a few years back, they normally stated where the edits came from, we considered it forum etiquette to do so (my original edits were from FFT, ff6, and breath of fire 4.) Editing taught us basic form of our favorite sprite styles, how to precisely place pixels, etc. However the majority of those who edit, do it out of laziness unfortunately.
In order to gain anything by editing you *reaaaaly* have to study the edits and not just do quick rush jobs to please people... that sounds so dirty in a way.
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Dhaos nailed it, it all goes back to motive.
He and his buds wanted to be pixel artists for the sake of making art and getting better, most of the rippers we run across just do it to look good, or at least, better than they actually are. Drawing to impress instead of drawing to improve means people cut corners to avoid the "hard parts", and as with most things in beginning art, you aren't learning a whole lot unless it's hard.
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helm, I feel you kind of deffensive understand I dont support this guy, when I go to sprite editing boards I try to advocate the policy we use around here.
I just wanted to state that this guy might've not been as malicious as everyone thought, this would have passed with no problem in some boards.
there's atleast one guy I know that doesnt fit even Dhaos'es criteria.
http://galeon.com/efex/web/page2.html
he hangs out here
http://s4.invisionfree.com/PrimeCentralStation/index.php?showtopic=824&st=210
he can perfectly make still frames from scratch in most popular fighter sprite styles, yet he has no shame in editing one of them if it fits him better. I belive it is true he is not trying to improve, he just wants to hang out where what he does is recognized.
I would love to see Efex get out of editing comunities and make some original stuff of his own. the more his style leaks trough capcom/SNK's the more I enjoy what he does.
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I see dhaos. Thanks for the info.
The main problem I usually see with people from a spriteedit background is that whereas they have learnt how to shade elaborately done hair or cloth folds like in KOF, they can't draw a realistic head or the leg under the pants that the folds are on. They've learnt sprite art ( NOT pixel art ) but they don't have the general art skill to put it to original and cohesive use. I personally find artists that only do fighter sprites, or only rpg sprites and tiles, or only whatever, to be 'crippled' pixel artists. To be a great pixel artist, I think, you must have solid skills with a pencil before anything else. To design and have a personal aesthetic. When I was younger it was much more easy for me to be wowed by a good fighter sprite. Now that I know how they're made and what they amount to, a person like this efex really does nothing for me. I see fighter sprites, a lot of them. Some good techniqes. But pixel art is much more, and I don't think anyone really sets on that path through editing. He might pass through editing in that path, but editing doesn't put him on the path. If the height of your ambition is to 'do sprites like the KOF people' then that's not the path I'm talking about.