Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: The B.O.B. on April 04, 2006, 01:32:41 pm

Title: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 04, 2006, 01:32:41 pm
What with all these fighter sprites bieng made, I though I'd be a part of the fad, and send in an oldie I made a while ago. I'd just like to mention before hand that fighter sprites are what I like doing best, so I practice more on these guys than anything else. However, looking at my gallery, there was a shortage of female fetalles.Therefore I'm whoring out my design of a female character to you guys, whose design seems to be based off of middle eastern decent, like Egyptians and what not. Tell me if it needs a little work or not:

(http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/93/10/100x100template1144160593.PNG)


Keep in mind that I really suck at female anatomy, and would greatly appreciate some tips especially dealing with that subject.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Wayuki on April 04, 2006, 03:15:13 pm
I think she is lovely! The design, the pose and the body proportions are gorgeous.  :D

I'm not too keen on the colors, though. Her skin looks pretty greenish. I'd love to see her with a more natural tan color. Also, I had a little trouble making out the different parts of her costume and body, because the colors are all pretty similar looking.

Lastly, I think the purple shadow is really harsh and it doesn't blend with the skin at all. On her legs, it looks almost as if she's wearing purple tights with some large holes cut into them.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 04, 2006, 04:20:28 pm
To be perfectly honest with you, the strange hues of her body were my favorite part about her. But whatever suits the eye, heres an edit for ya. I just gave her a more realistic tan, as you asked.

old version-->(http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/93/10/100x100template1144160593.PNG)

new version-->(http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/93/13/100x100template1144170954.PNG)

so far I still like the older one better. But I'm pretty sure the majority might chime in to your opinion though, Wayuki. Thanks for the input, I appreciated it!
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Wayuki on April 04, 2006, 10:20:48 pm
It's all a matter of taste, I guess.  ;D
I personally would have gone for a less cellshaded look for the skin as well.

I made an edit as well, hope you don't mind:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/sessy_example.gif)

I fiddled with the colors a bit and added one extra color for the skin. (The seemingly "extra" blue was already in your piece, but not in the palette to the side.)
I also tried to make the collar and bracelets more colorful and shiny.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: reydragk on April 07, 2006, 07:05:07 am
It's all a matter of taste, I guess.  ;D
I personally would have gone for a less cellshaded look for the skin as well.

I made an edit as well, hope you don't mind:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/sessy_example.gif)

I fiddled with the colors a bit and added one extra color for the skin. (The seemingly "extra" blue was already in your piece, but not in the palette to the side.)
I also tried to make the collar and bracelets more colorful and shiny.

I like the added shine on the jewlery in this edit, but the skin's shading looks to me like it needs AA...

As far as the original, I'm not really a huge fan of the colors either...I can kinda see where you were going with it, but I like the more tanned skin tone better for sure...
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Larwick on April 07, 2006, 11:31:18 am
I think you guys are messing to much with the original style. I love the original colours, they're ...well, original and unique.They could be edited to make it easier for the viewer to see what theyre actually looking at, but still, i like it personally.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Dhaos on April 07, 2006, 08:59:01 pm
Your anatomy is pretty solid, however the leg could use a tiny bit of muscle detail though, and there you might want to add a small dip near her butt. Also consider adding a few dark pixels to show where the underside of her knee is. Finally I think her ankles are bit thick, but thats pretty minior at this point, well done.

I will say the design and colors are really neat and look good, hopefully you can make a portrait to match soon ^-^.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Conzeit on April 09, 2006, 12:33:08 am
I really like the way you used the harsh cel-shading combined with that bandage detailon that gal, it gives the sprite something really unique and makes it interesting to look at. I too like the older coloring better, might not look very realistic but it's still far more interesting to look at.


please please please dont gradientize it
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/sessy_example.gif)
like that, it'd become just another boring kof-ish sprite among the myriad of em in the interenet.

as far as I'm concerned this topic only needs more sprites, I think what you got going on might not be the usual stuff everyone is trying to convince you to do, but that's what makes it all so much more worthwile
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Overkill on April 09, 2006, 01:24:13 am
I think the original was fine, but I have no problem with the slightly altered colors, as long as gradients are NOT considered. Gradients make baby jesus cry, especially when the style was intended to be cel-shaded.

The only problem is, as Camus said, it'd help to see more sprites in this style. Possibly an animated version of this sprite would make it a that much more awesome, like a dance or seductive walk of some sort.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 09, 2006, 01:38:41 am
   Thanks Camus! I was hoping someone would see where I was coming from. I understand what Wayuki and the others were saying, its just that I don't want to create the same style of fighter sprites as everybody else. I want to create a different type of fighter style( even be it by strange skin tones), and by staying the mainstream, how will I separate myself, or achieve any success? Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and post the two edited versions of what everybody wanted(with out the gradiented version mind you. KOF is great, but I just don't feel their style of sprites is right for me ladies.), and another female fighter sprite below. I just want others to see which style of the egyption women matches the same style of the newer female sprite. Check em oot'...

(http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/97/22/100x100templatenobackground1144549903.png)

   So there ya go. There's no right or wrong answer, I'm just curious as to figure out which of the two sprites matches the style of the female sprite on the far right. Knowing how to match styles will be crucial if I ever have the oppurtunity to work on a project, so input would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Conzeit on April 09, 2006, 02:01:26 am
that new one is a girl? gee. I wouldnt have guessed from looking at it. I think this one's head looks a little too deep in her shoulders, maybe you should use a heavy outline at her chin to separate it

personally I think the new one only matches the old one's style at the pants (which by the way look awesome) if anything, and that's because pants drapery is something that you hadnt done yet. the new one visually (IDK about the pallete) it's like you only have one ramp in this one...wich makes it all harder to figure out. specially the skintones are way less contrasted, if you want to add highlights to this one to emphasize the musculature, then do it by using brighter skintones than those the older sprite has, but dont lower the general contrast of the skintones.

I dont know why the new one's torso is so confusing, you used very well those flat shadowed areas in the old one to create a clear sense of depth, but that isnt present at all in the new one's torso

cant stop editing.

eh, as I have said you should keep the general contrast stable troughout characters, so that they look the same style.But you can have some more fun with the hue values of the specifical shades, I think that's half the fun of doing a set of sprites.
feh. I ended up making an edit

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/temp.gif) just rough ideas, I think the blue looks nice on her, IDK if you should actually use anything in here, it's all just rough visualizations of some ideas I had.

ooh,  I just noticed the arab girl sprite had some red and green ornaments, they are getting completly lost, I think you should try saturating them and removing those white highlights them so their colors stick out.....just an idea.

oh..btw Wayuki, I just realized I might've come off as offensive, but please dont take it that way, yours is a perfectly good way of shading, and I like the way it makes every texture so clear in your art, but I think this guy should really do stuff his own way.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Xion on April 09, 2006, 02:20:11 am
I think the Cell-shaded look is freakin' great, but, as Camus said, the new one doesn't have much of that on the skin. I, too, mistook the new one for a dude before I read your post. Really, Camus pointed out most of the things, like the lack of differentiation in colors between the clothing and skin. If you combined the pant-cloth of the new one (which I really like) with the cell shadedness of the old one (which I also really like) then that would be a great, great sprite.
On your new sprite, is there a difference between the two darkest colors? 'Cause if there is I can't tell.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 09, 2006, 02:46:54 am
...
On your new sprite, is there a difference between the two darkest colors? 'Cause if there is I can't tell.

Actually, the Darkest color in the pallete is just the pure black that is used in the outline of all the characters. Thought it wouldn't be right to post just the sprite's colors without the outline color also.

And to Camus, I know the second FEMALE( Once again, let me remind everyone, I really suck at making female sprites. Plus the second character is supposed to be some type of female, ryu-ish tom-boy so it kind of makes sense for the boyish look. But its still no excuse to cover her manly type anatomical issues.) doesn't look as great as the egyptian sprite. I just wanted to know if they matched or not. Sorry, if I confused anyone.
   And yeah, I meant to use a low color count on both the characters. I'm trying to learn to use a minimum amount of colors by effectly using them in skin tones, and clothes also. Obviously I'm still failing at it, but I'll keep trying in the future. Oh, I almost forgot, I must be an idiot or something, but I got really confused when you were explaining to me which sprites were which. I didn't know if you meant the "old one" as the original egyptian sprite, or the edited egyptian sprite when compared to the Tom-boy sprite on the right, or the Tom boy...eh, never mind, I got a head ache.
   Any ways, thanks for the input everybody, I'll try to fix them up for me'self to look at. I don't wanna keep filling this post up with garbage full of my edits. Save you guys the hassle, and breath. Thanks again!...
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Conzeit on April 09, 2006, 02:51:59 am
by old one I meant the original egyptian (I called her arab :p) gal, new one is tomboy gal

I just noticed some more things on egyptian gal, I think her right leg is shorter than the other, and so is her left leg...too bad, I think to fix that and keep the flow of the curves the sprite has you wouldnt just have to make the short limbs longer, you would have to reposition everything a little bit.

I just edited the previous post to make it a little more clear.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Helm on April 09, 2006, 03:13:00 am
The biggest problem I have with the second one is that the pants don't follow the leg at all, not even considering a loose, crumbled fabric flowing over them. You should have a clear idea where the legs are underneath the fabric. I'm not sure you do right now.

Also whereas I appreciate what you're trying to do with the colour selection, something so limited will only work when your pixel techniques are up to it all-around. Right now there's a lot of broken outlines, jaggies and noisy texturing that seems to suggest volume where there isn't. You need to make it simpler before you can make it more complex, I think. This is the case where my most solid advice would be to start over, from a very clean anatomical study which you should show for corrections, then a basic light study which will lead to a strong sense of volume. The pixelling is the last step. You're covering up errors with information here, but the errors still show.

The first one is very much on a better stage, but still if you were to deduct the pure anatomical figure from it, it also suffers, especially on the legs, the back leg most of the two. Your anatomical problem with women isn't so much of inaprorpiate lengths and widths, it is, I deduct of finesse and variations of such where they're needed.

(http://www.locustleaves.com/study.png)

As I said in the other anatomy edit I did in another thread, I'm no master, but hopefully this will help a bit.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 09, 2006, 04:42:45 am
   Well alright, alright, alright. Thats a will do, cappin'. I guess it's a start from scratch for me now. Thanks for info, and also, the anatomical figure really helped me understand the issue with it, technically. I finally get what you guys were talking about with the shoulders. Also, I do understand the whole drapery of clothes on the limbs, and how they should be visually seen (especially seeing it as how the wind is blowing the belt, and that would also make one presume that her pants would also be blown in that direction, giving more of a visual of the leg it covers).
   Come to think of it, I really was just wanting to know about the egyptian gal's(or arabs, thanks Camus) probs not really the other, since she was just there for a side by side example of style. But I guess I got some extra help today on that certain little lady. Thanks err'body. I'll try working on them another day. Thanks for everybody's info!
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Wayuki on April 09, 2006, 12:28:46 pm
I don't think the Egyptian gal has any problems with her anatomy, though.  :D
She looks very feminine, because:

- Her pose is very feminine and elegant.
- Her anatomy is obviously female, and not just by the breasts. She has a small waist, wide hips, large thighs and her legs are very curvy without too much muscle definition.
- Her outfit is very feminine.

The other gal doesn't read as female because:

- Her pose would work just as well for a guy as for a female.
- Her outfit would work just as well for a guy as for a female.
- Her female anatomy is obscured by her pose and her clothes.
- Her ribcage, shoulders and arms are really large and defined for a female.

I think you can make the second girl look more feminine by slimming down her arms and torso a lot and taking out some of the muscle definition. Instead, you can subtly define the deltoid by curving the outline, to indicate that she isn't a wimp.

If you make her less hunched, that would be a bit more elegant as well. And, you'll have more room to draw some cute wisps of hair, which could also help to make her look feminine.

Aside from that, the pants are really bulky. Because of that, you can't really tell if she has a large waist to hip ratio, which is obviously an important female trait. Also, the folds you have in the pants almost make it look like muscle definition, so they look like a male bodybuilder's legs at first glance. Also, her feet are really big and unelegant, which reinforces the male bodybuilder look.

If you lower the pants, you can show that she has a large waist to hip ratio, despite the bulkiness of of the pants. Still, I would slim the pants down as well. Also, I would try to give her smaller feet in an elegant pose.

I also made a sketch, hope it helps:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/sessy_example2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: ndchristie on April 09, 2006, 01:27:59 pm
Personally i like the sprite you have at the moment of the second girl, but anatomically she is a teenage boy (male body structure with narrow hips and broad abs,shoulders, but still not enough meat on himer to be considered an adult.  None of that really seems to be a problem to me though, i think the trouble comes from what appears to be a very tiny head (perhaps just a lack of neck?)

One thing to consider in feming her up may be adjusting her clothes to fit her personality.  Right now her pants are heavy, like anchors, but stiff enough not to hug the form of the legs.  typically clothes on feminine characters do better when they are lightweight and blown out (imagine there is a giant fan in the center of her body and all the clothes and hair are being gently blown outwards by it).  If that ends up looking silly, try finding a more gracefull look by drawing the character on paper with a single stroke.  Once you have captured the essence of the pose, quickly drawing the rest of the figure around that single motion will become much easier (if youve ever done gesture drawings, you already know this technique for finding motion).

id do sketches to demonstrate but my scanner wont turn on :S
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 09, 2006, 03:53:40 pm
Consider this the final edit, and I'm done with these "biLtches"...This is the last edit because I initially just wanted some help with the Arab lady, but got more crits over the sample character. Really didn't mean that to happen. I just thought that the forum gods out there might be thinking the switching of the characters might be off topic from the orginal arab. Just don't wanna piss the wrong people off, thats off.
   And by the way, the sample character was supposed to sorta emulate a dude. She's a tom-boy, so she might have some dude characteristics. For other proof on these types of characters, just look at "Makoto" from Street Fighter III: third strike. Thousands of folks thought she was a dude, including me, until they saw her dizzy pose( because her bra showed during the pose). But I guess its what the peepo want, so here she blows. the new version is on the far left with the older one on the right. The bottom rows are just in black outlines.

new-->(http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/98/12/100x100templatenobackground1144600627.png)<--old
 
*I elongated the leg, gave some form into the left leg to show it through the gi, straightened her upright so her neck is more visible, rolled her pants down, so her hips are more visible( pervs'  ;D), gave her more tiny, feminite feet, enlarged the head just a smidge, slimed her shoulders down, gave her skin a more cell shaded look as everyone asked, and gave her two extra human tone colors, as shown in the pallette.

Phew! Consider me a steak fellas, cuz I'm done...well done. Just kidding. It still gots probs, but I can't afford to play with her any longer. Thanks again everybody for the helpful crits. Really enjoyed them!
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Souly on April 09, 2006, 07:01:24 pm
I still think it's a guy, it doesn't quite have a femine look.
The breast just kind of fades into the body.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: God Slayer on April 09, 2006, 09:51:25 pm
Not all women wear double Ds, alright? I think it looks fine, feminine in a way, but tomboyish as well- in my opinion, you've done what you set out to do with this one.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Conzeit on April 09, 2006, 09:56:35 pm
it's not really about how girly or tomboy she looks, as much as it's about how undefined the shape is, I cant even tell her head apart from her chest in real size.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: The B.O.B. on April 10, 2006, 01:44:17 am
it's not really about how girly or tomboy she looks, as much as it's about how undefined the shape is, I cant even tell her head apart from her chest in real size.

Are you still talking about the one on the right, or the newly edited version on the left? I thought her head looked a bit more clearly defined from the right version. Am I wrong? Care to elaborate on what you meant, cause I'm still a little unclear on what you are referring to.
Title: Re: Sessy Lady...
Post by: Dhaos on April 10, 2006, 02:16:20 am
hmm... being that you are using shadows so heavily, you might consider:
A)dimming the stomach area
B)dim the < leg (like the left edits)
C)add more darker shading to the breasts, to give them more depth. Also < foot seems rather messy, clearer AAing might help.
D)shortening her legs, they're rather long compared to the body...very long

I do, however, think the pic is quite good. The outfit is neat and so is the pose.