Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: freespyryt on April 03, 2010, 06:39:33 pm
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As I'm still continuing with my runner, this is mostly just a practice tile, but I'm starting to work on terrain, and here's my first grass tile :D
Grass: (http://i39.tinypic.com/foi0ht.png)
Sooo it still looks pretty tiled. But! I like the main grass style! C&C please!
Updated: (http://i43.tinypic.com/2cwwnsp.png)
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Well, here's a tile of your grass:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9013/grassd.gif)
I don't know much about grass but as you said, it looks pretty tiled, the main reason being those horizontal strips, but also the continuing pattern of 4 clustered blades of grass. You don't have to throw away your style, all of you have to do is to mishmosh things up a bit and break those continuing lines.
Here are awesome (http://mirror.motherhamster.org/tsugumo/chapter2.html) tutorials (http://mirror.motherhamster.org/tsugumo/chapter5.html) on creating grass/tiles (which you might've seen already because your grass looks similar :P)
Also, you can make two or more variations of grass tile to mix things up even more.
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Hahah that was in fact the tutorial I was looking at! It's not what I'm using for sure, but I'm trying to get the hang of it. I used two 16x16 tiles and put them into a 32x32 tile, to make it one big tile with two different tiles (the ones that are the same are diagonal from each other)...but it still turned out tile-y. Soooooooooo yeah. I might try making another one but I don't want it to look out of place either ;) I used mappy to make that tile, so I knew it looked tile-y, but I tried what that tutorial said and it didn't seem to alleviate the problem all that much, so I came here! :D We'll try again and post an update in the morning...for now, any further C&C would be much appreciated, and I'm off to bed!
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http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9865.msg107103#msg107103
Here, vierbit shows how to make good tiling tiles, also there are tons of other tile related tips in this thread.
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the horizontal line is happening because each grass cluster is about dead center in the 16x16 tile, if you offset them a bit more (I see that they don't actually line up, but there close enough,) you could fix that up. I am be no means an expert on tiles, but I find it helps if you work details more from corners then the center, just because you end up thinking about them differently and tend to make more variation in the patterns as a result. Obviously, you don't want to start at the first pixel on any given corner, because you wont have room to work, but if you are starting from the center its really easy to just make a similar pattern for all similar things (like grass) and that makes it really hard to break up the repetition. (Point and case, both of your tiles feature a star shape made of four blades of grass pointing in different directions, and although this shape and the blades do read as grass, and look fine on there own, using that same formation over and over again makes it painfully obvious they are being tiled.)
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So I took people's advice and finally got around to editing my grass...here's my work!
Tiles: (http://i42.tinypic.com/2ljm6w9.png)(http://i39.tinypic.com/2mq280k.png)(http://i42.tinypic.com/8xpjlv.png)(http://i41.tinypic.com/r90cwi.png)
Those are all of the tiles individually that I used. annnd....
Grass Tile Thing: (http://i44.tinypic.com/2uzw3lw.png) That's my grass!
I think it's much less tiled this time around! :D
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There are still large structures: all tiles have mostly horizontal leaves around the height of the top row of flowers, with aligned dark gaps (8th/9th row) that form distinctive horizontal lines over multiple tiles.
You can shuffle around the interior of your tiles to place some light green highlights and flowers there, balancing the distribution of colors and interrupting the gaps.
Any reason to place flowers in only one of the tiles? That special tile is obvious, as is its size.
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Oh I just didn't want to make the grass too busy, but I guess another flower tile might be in order. I'll try moving things around to see if it looks any better...Thanks!
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So I changed up the grass a bit more and added another flower tile.
Here are the tiles:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/fjqneo.png)
And here's them in a map with the character:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/jqgumw.jpg)
It still looks tiled :-\ I tried to make them less uniform and mix up the placement of the leaves but I don't think it worked as well as I'd hoped.
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Way too much contrast in those ground tiles, the character gets lost. You generally want to try to limit the contrast, and maybe use less eye-catching colors.
Your ground is also looking tiled because of the way you're going about doing your tiles. Your patches of grass are strands that start from the center and grow outwards from the center of the tile, and stop before they hit the edge. This is most evident in the first and third tiles. You have to think in more realistic terms; in real life, patches of grass are not limited to small boxes they can grow in.
Your flower tiles are not helping much either, they define the borders of the grid too much. You may be able to get away with having just 1 or 2 flowers per tile, and using it much less sparsely than you have it now.
Also .jpg, it's not good for the soul.
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i played around with your pallete and i got this:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/tilesetreefd.PNG)
I could still work on it, but i'm too lazy now :P
I made this to show you how to 'kill the grid'. I recommend you to look at those links:
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_de-mystifying_greats_1.php
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_de-mystifying_greats_2.php
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_breaking_up_monotony.php
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_obliterating_grid.php
That would help you a lot ;D
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You don't have to tile all the grass. You could just put a plain green background, with grass tiles in patches.
It might help to put borders around these patches too, combine that with roads and other objects, it won't look so bland and tiled.
But there may not be anything wrong the tile itself per say, you just can't overuse it like that. Look at Legend of Zelda III, Final Fantasy 6, and Seiken Densestsu for more inspiration.
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A bigger tile would be better too.
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Thanks all so much for your input! I took a closer look at those tutorials than i had before and I realized that I think I was using too much highlighting and such, and I think you're right, Jakerpot, a larger tile might be better. Sorry about the .jpg..I saved it .png but it uploaded funky. I thought about just having plain green with some tiles that have interest, but I want to see if this will work out, I like how it's going. Rest assured my entire game won't be just grass...I'll be adding in roads and flowers and rocks and cliffs at some point, but I just wanted to get this basic piece down before I started on new things. Anyway, here are the new tiles:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/27wsuf6.png)
And a map with character:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/21e7twm.png)
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Much better =)
Now you could try to kil that 2 horizontal pixels that appears all the time. Why don't you try to use only 1 tile too? Thats why i said a bigger tile (32*32) would help you a lot.
The key is using the patterns in a non-horizontal/vertical way and make many parts that look alike with the other ones, so they wont feel so highlighted.
I will try to help as soon as i get home =)
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I know a great tutorial located here: http://www.toolkitzone.com/library.php?doc=489 (http://www.toolkitzone.com/library.php?doc=489).
I see that you have two big diagonal strands in your grass That makes it easier for me to see the grid. You may want to work on that.
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Thanks for the advice! I tried a 32x32 and that tutorial....and I think it looks greatly improved!
Here's a map: (http://i43.tinypic.com/25g3r40.png)
And here are my tiles: (http://i42.tinypic.com/311nmm8.png)
I think it still looks a little bit tiled, but it's not nearly as bad and it looks more diagonal. Kidfrommars: Thanks for pointing out those strands. They were totally killing it. And Jakerpot, I did only use one 32x32 tile this time, as you can see. I think that's much better. I tried to make tings look more natural, but patterns are hard not to repeat :P
Anyway! Further C&C, advice?
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Try a tile with 2 bushes also, or a tile with a bush in a corner. This will create a more natural look ;)
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So not only did I make more bushes...I made 2 flower tiles. :D I hope that it doesn't look too retarded...I don't want to start ruining it :o However, keep in mind that I my tiles will NOT be this close together...this is just to see what it looks like.
So here's a map:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/1zsun8.png)
And here are my tiles:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/28l7sr4.png)
I'm not wanting to double post, so here's another update.
Map: (http://i39.tinypic.com/2ypb3er.png)
Tiles:(http://i44.tinypic.com/f22bk8.png)
I added some rocks and rearranged the flowers. It's finally starting to come together.
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Add more constrast to the rocks and flowers, they look transparent :-X
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Oh shoot! good call. How is this?
(http://i43.tinypic.com/296ja8g.png)
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Better! But it still looks kind of 'flat' for me :x
Maybe some more saturated colors would be great. Play around with contrast and saturation until you think it's fine ;)
That's what i've got in a quick edit:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/playsss.png)
Sometimes when you work too much with less-satured colors, your eyes get used to them. And when you compare these colors with more satured ones, the first group of colors will look much boring and flat.
Thats what happen if you look too much to your tiles (if you play a game with them for example, you will get used to them and not bother with it). Now try to compare with my version. Got the point?? ;)
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So I edited it a bit. I didn't go *quite* as saturated as you did, simply because my character started to get a little lost. But I got pretty close, and you're absolutely right...my old one looks like it was covered with a film of dust. I probably should have been paying more attention to that :crazy: Anyways! Thanks to your valuable help:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2cwwnsp.png) There it is!
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Now it is pretty awesome ;D
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Thank you so much! Your advice was invaluable , so glad to have it looking better. :)
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Hey freespyryt, good effort so far!
But now the character sprite is incredibly dissonant. His palette is murky compared to the brighter grass tiles. There's also major grounding issues, give him a shadow.
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I've noticed that there is a tile that looks strange... You should add more detail to the bush background, so it would fit with the other tiles. The tile feel like it is on a closed box :-X
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/pngnpg.PNG)
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Give him a shadow =P that will make it look less out of place. also the angles are all off, the character looks like he's laying down on the grass to me =/.
also, the grass could be a little darker, looks kind of bright compared to the character. just my opinions though.
goodluck!
Kælaar
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Could you please post the updated tiles??? I would like to make some changes for you :)
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Mathias: I realized the shadow was a problem. I was wondering if I should add a shadow to the sprite, and I guess I should at least try it out. Who knows? Maybe it won't look half bad! But I agree about the murkiness...I was trying to make him look all rough and explorer like, so i didn't want him to be all happy and cheery in his attire choice, and also I don't want him and the grass to be too bright together. So I guess I'll be playing around with that some more.
Jakerpot: Here are those tiles:(http://i39.tinypic.com/dw2wzo.png) And also, just a side note with that, it has the road I made in there. so feel free all of you to take a look at that!
That tile is actually bigger than just those leaves, but I'll try adding more depth/detail to that tile and see if that helps it look less...strange.
Kaelaar: I'm attempting to make the grass darker without making it too dull, but I'll have to see what it looks like with the sprite on top of it and it being a little darker.
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You won't believe how much your grass will pop if you can manage to get more yellow into the highlight colours, and also don't draw your grass as if it were a mat composed of cut blades all arranged flatly on the ground with no overlapping pieces - grass has depth and also tall clumps that overshadow shorter regions, and especially where it hangs over areas of flat earthy ground.
Here are some images to show grass that I felt was notable in some way:
- Some low-res grass with obvious yellow highlights (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/13431.htm#)
- Grass tiles with obvious shadowing and mild highlights (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/27284.htm#)
- Sideview grass tiles (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12150.htm) to show blade overlap and shadow and use of highlights
- Minish Cap (http://gotymedia.gamespy.com/2005/images/screens/gba/minishcap.jpg), which is a personal favourite of mine, forgoes the risk of messily texturing grass, and somehow gets away with a strikingly lush environment with just a hint of texture
- Isometric tiles by Adarias that show some advanced grass-type variations (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/42860.htm#)
- Grass tiles with a lovely, olive palette, just for variety (http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/48469.htm#)
- And the obligatory Seiken Densetsu 3 grass tiles (http://www.lordrinja.com/seikendensetsu31.gif)
These types of tiles and styles really appeal to me - what about you?