Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: zez on March 28, 2010, 05:28:11 am
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(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runcycle.gif)
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/running.png)
So, first off, sorry about the terrible quality on the gif, Its more to show the thing in motion then anything, but its pretty ugly (and kind of ridicules, seeing as the thing is only 3 colors...)
Basically, Im happy with the overall form of the sprite, and it looks fine when its just standing around (the first 4 frames on the png) and Im mostly happy with the animation. It does conveys the overall feeling I was going for (basically, imagine a ninja frolicking through a field of daises, and you have about the mood.) Its obviously not done, I basically just made a three frame stick figure run cycle that was about right, then did some combination of copy pasting, madly blocking in whites, and sketching outlines. I need to fix all the jagys, and smooth out the lines and yadah yadah, but before I do that I want to make sure its right, and now, its close, but not. My biggest problem with it is the first and fourth frames basically. I feel like the 'knee' doesn't really extend far enough, but if I try to move it forward to much it looks even worse, and if I raise it it looses any sense that this sprite could do damage. The problem may be that I have placed the 'knee' in the wrong place, as the proportions on this sprite have very little in common with, well, anything. Unfortunately (for my animating, at least) I actually really like the broken proportions
Anyhow, any advice would be awesome, this is somewhere around the 5th version of the template for this game (the 4th, I actually finished for both genders and all three races before realizing it was nearly impossible dress, this one is basically made to be super easy to work with, as the player is going to making the actual character.)
Btw, I know the chest and arm are wrong, Im going to make the arm tilt downwards slightly on the last and 3rd frame, and the chest kinda jumps everywhere, Im mostly just worried about the legs right now, as they are closest to being right.
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*bumb*
Alright, I think I fixed it. I just moved the 'knee' up slightly, shortened the leg, and cleaned it up a little bit (I still need to work on her butt a little bit,) and it looks a lot better, Something still seems off, but I cant put my finger on it, and I may have just been staring at it to long. Thoughts?
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(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8986/12framerun.gif)
i would uh
follow this guide (found it in another thread pretty close to yours wowee)
it's not really something to follow 100%, because given what your run looks like, you'd want to take a bit of a different path with the arms and possibly the head
but yeah
look at that
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I actually did use that guide for reference, but found the tweening to be a bit excessive (If you look at a runcycle from a capcom fighter, you notice that something at about twice that size gets away with half the frames, and ends up with more energy for it,) and my stick figure actually follows a fairly similar movement path, the key difference being that in the case of both of my extremes, the feet are back further, this was intended to give off the impression she was pushing forward more from the ground, but its possible I lost the effect. I could try to move the knee forward slightly in frames 2 and 5 to make more of a 4 shape I suppose, but I felt like frames 1 and 3 covered that motion fairly well, and I really dont want to overextend the front (her front, not ours) foot to much, as I feel like that will weaken the backwards push...
*EDIT* this is pretty close to the motion I was going for with the legs, if that helps (http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sakura-running.gif)*EDIT*
*EDIT2* Do you think I should extend her spine forwards farther? Im worried it will get rid of the frolicy skipping feel, and Id have to tweak my code to support wider sprite sheets, but it would probably better convey the momentum *EDIT2*
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There is no way you can compare the quality of a Capcom run to that cheat sheet posted above.
Capcom run cycles are based on animé runcycles, which are probably the poorest of poor runcycles. They can be studied to see how a cycle can be deconstructed into just keyframes, but the whole genre of animé tends to ignore everything but basic movement. Japanese game animation is a derivative of a derivative of a derivative. Try going for the original work for studying.
Animé's poor animation quality aside, your shapes seem to distort a lot. The legs seem to get thicker and thinner erratically in every frame. The problem might be that you work with lines. Try to work with shapes instead. Drop the black outline and animate just a silhouette. If the animation is not understandable in silhouette, you don't need lines, you just need to animate it better.
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duh
idk what kind of run your trying to do
(http://www.animationarchive.org/pics/pbanimation26.jpg)
that might help
i hope
yerp i stole that from a post you made a while back gil
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Word, that helped immensely Gil.
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runcycleblocked.gif)
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runblock.png)
A huge part of the problem Im having animating this, is that I wasnt responsible for the original piece (my girlfriend made the line work) and as of such am having a hell of a time guessing at where the joints on it should go. I actually started out with a stick figure, and then attempted to make the original image conform to its motion as much as possible, but that didnt really work so well, as I quickly realized my proportions weren't the same, then tried to go back and fudge them by tweaking the lines, and umm... yeah, that was probably the wrong idea. The first frame is still bugging me, but Im not 100% on what to do about it.
Im trying for some sort of middle ground between the run and skip in that pic, approximately. Im totally saving that for future reference. (Also, totally dreading doing the forward and backward facing run animation... Walk's are pretty easy, but this is going to be interesting.)
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those arms make absolutely no sense
just sayin
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Yeah, it would be better if you made the arms move back and forth like in all the other generic run cycles.
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(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sakura-running.gif)
The longer I look at this the less I can see the actual feet rotating the way they do in a non anime run. It just seems to be flickering back and forth. Actually it looks pretty awful in silhouette form. However it's kinda like a run and isn't really seen for long periods at a time anyway so I guess for a fighter this animation works however a big sprite like this in a platformer wouldn't work so well because of the large spaces between frames. There's only one frame where her arm crosses over noticeably and it's isn't really enough to show circular movement.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/sakura-running_sil.gif)
She looks like she is punching herself in the butt lol
Here this is just for kicks.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/sakura-running-forward-2.gif)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/runcycleblocked-forward.gif)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/sakura-running_sil-forward.gif)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/runcycleblocked-forward-sil.gif)
I don't know what you are trying to go for with your run cycle ???
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What you mean you dont splay your arms out directly behind you like a retard when you run? ???
Why not?
Yeah, pretty much nothing from the waist up is done, Im not to concerned with that part, pendulum motions are pretty east to animate and dont need to convey the same momentum effect as the legs, Ill probably just have the front arm face forwards as the leg goes back and back as it goes forward. Might try and make it kinda floaty, to enhance the ridiculousness of the form itself a bit more, but Im pretty sure that bit will be easy as pie (Also, Im probably going to have to have a version where the arm pendulums back and fourth, another where its holding a weapon, and reflects the increased weight, or possibly just stays behind it a bit more so the blade can be dragged on the ground, and another where its actually swinging)
Oh, and btw, although your point does kind of stand, as alot of this game is going to be running around, its not a platformer, its from that wonkey semi top down view most rpg's use, and its somewhere between a rougelike and the legend of zelda...
*EDIT* I should probably clarify something, she's actually two 32 x 32 sprites ingame, as apposed to the 1 32 x 64 she appears as, and that's contributing to how dismissive I am about the preposterous arm movements. *EDIT*
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well, i do. but thats besides the point. im pretty sure your a beginner, so i would suggest you start off generic.
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Heres an edit of what I think everyone is trying to tell you.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/runcycleblocked_edit-1.gif)
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Heh, interestingly, I think I just did something pretty similar to that...
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runcycleblocked2.gif)
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runblock2.png)
It does read better, but I think I over did it on the forward extension of the knee, and it kinda lost the feeling it had. Ill maybe try to find a middle ground between the two...
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Bumb. Alright, I fixed it up a little bit, I think Im happy with the legs now, so Ill start fixing up the torso and arm(s?) next. You guys where super helpful, I dont think it would have come out half as good without the critiquing, so thanks. (Id post the current one, but I uploaded it with the same filename, so you can actually just look at my previous post.)
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Heres an edit of what I think everyone is trying to tell you.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/vashers/runcycleblocked_edit-1.gif)
your legs still look nothing like they should
and you have this handy dandy edit right above your last post
fix them
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I thought I did ??? What exactly are you taking issue with?
Uhh, here.... with handy dandy added lines (http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runlines.png)
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The movement makes no sense.
Try to look at someone running, do their feet look like that?
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I thought I did ??? What exactly are you taking issue with?
Uhh, here.... with handy dandy added lines (http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runlines.png)
there is absolutely no forward motion in your run
at all
its just magically lifting itself up
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There's 1. Tuns of backwards motion, and 2.A tiny bit of forward motion between frames 6&1, and 3&4. Look at the skip in the thing mad hatter posted, thats probably the closest to the motion that is up here (Sorry for not going for generic, I know its confusing 1up.)
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this has nothing to do with "going for generic"(i dont even know what this means)
you seem to be using style as an excuse for making a legitimately good animation
so i give up, peace
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its not the same as the skip
In the skip posted the guy swings his hands back and forth, and isn't stiff
notice, before jumping he gains energy to jump, and he swings his arms. while in mid air, he doesn't move his legs as though he were running. more as though he were jumping, which he is. and when he lands he doesn't recover automatically. it isn't a stun or anything, but yours shows no reaction to landing
haters will be haters
i'm not a hater, just a hatter.
holy fuck that was horrible
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Huh, okay, I think I follow. So, on the land, I should bend the knee a bit, and maybe use two frames to get back up in the air instead of 1?
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(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runcycleblocked3.gif)
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runblock3.png)
Did that do it?
*EDIT* The front leg looks a little bit too fat on the new frame... Ill fix that in a bit if the motion looks right, I think it is an improvement though...*EDIT*
*EDIT2* Is she dropping to fast? Should I maybe make her lag in the air a second longer?*EDIT2*
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no no, you have two frames that aren't helping anything and the rest of the movement suffers from morphed limbs and lack of realistic bounce.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/runcycleblocked4.gif)
This is a 6 frame animation, fewer than yours but the keyframes are more solid. Animation cannot be approached without some fundamental ideas clear in mind.
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Man, that kinda puts mine to shame. I see what you mean about unnecessary frames (4 & 8 on mine, Im assuming) I was going for more of a skippy frolic vibe then a mad dash, but apparently my animation didnt portray that. Anyhow, this is totally food for thought, Ima give yours some further study before I revisit mine.
// Edit, because I think double posting may be bad etiquette?
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runblock5.png)
(http://cropcrusade.netai.net/flash/gfx/runcycleblocked5.gif)
Is that better? Does it look anything like frolicking through a field of daises?
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Are you going to fix the spike arms?
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Yeah, Im also going to fix up the chest so it doesnt implode as she takes steps, and I might make the head rotate a little bit (although that would mean Id have to animate every possible facial feature rotating, so I might not...) but Im trying to get the legs right first.
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The frames where the legs are coming forward utterly lack any sort of force and don't have nearly as much motion as when they're coming back. You're keeping them too close to the ground and they're still not stretching out far enough. You see how you've curled the leg up fairly high when they're going backwards? It needs an equal amount of movement when going forward.
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Wow, this takes me back! :) That image MadHatter posted was the same one I used when first learning how to animate walking and running. I think what you need to do is look at that image again and try to make an 8 frame walking animation.
Another idea is to simply get up now and start walking. Notice how your feet move, how high and when you legs lift up.
You said you were going for a ' skippy frolic' animation. And that's cool. However, it would do you well to learn how to make a normal walking animation first.