Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Turbo on March 25, 2006, 03:37:25 pm
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(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f291/TurboLento/skintest_b_v4.png)
I'm trying to reach a realistic set of skin tones for pictures of larger dimensions, without resorting to dithering. Any suggestions? Does this need more inbetween colors? H/S/L changes? I've used 4 colors for the skin here.
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A few minutes of playing around with the colors brought me to these:
(http://paul.gerla.us/Skin1.png)(http://paul.gerla.us/Skin2.png)(http://paul.gerla.us/Skin3.png)
I wish I could explain exactly why I chose which colors, but I pretty much just played with them until it looked good to my eyes. Try to think about all the things going on: there's light scattering around inside the blood and translucent skin, making it look like it's almost glowing; there's light bouncing off as if it were very reflective when you look at an angle; and there's the simple diffuse highlights that appear where ever the light hits.
http://www.gfxartist.com/upload/features/tutorials/14030 Here's an excellent article, with lots of information, which I probably didn't even follow. :P
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Why wouldn't you "resort" to dithering?
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(http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6093/skin12tp.png)i did a basic dither of the first pallette.
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Why wouldn't you "resort" to dithering?
animation?
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Why wouldn't you "resort" to dithering?
Style? Attempt to test out your skillz?
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Pawige: i'm familiar with Ron Lemen's lesson about skin tones, and with the basic "physics" going on and under the skin. You can see i've given the part that receives the most light a yellowed tone (a tone caucasian skin has, because of underlaying fat) and lower saturation caused by the direct light, and the midtones and dark shades are tinted towards red from light scattering under the surface and shining on blood and muscles under the skin layer.
Having said this, i don't think your edits are "realistic" at all, they head more towards a cartoon look. The first edit comes close, the lighter color conveys a good tanned feel, but not even red skinned people look like this (only if the lightsource was a setting sun). On the blue tintings on the darkest part, i assume these are secondary lightsources, they do bump up the other colors but in my original i was going for just one lightsource (i'll do more once i fell i have this thing under control). The second and third edits just feel totally off.
It's interesting that after looking at your edits, the lighter color i've used looks like a green, didn't look like that before.
Thanks for the critics.
Why wouldn't you "resort" to dithering?
I don't want to be limited to a single technique, i want options.
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I think with a bright directional light like this the shadow would be quite a bit darker. also I think the pallete should gradually red-en more before dropping into the shadowey browns. This is just a combination of personal observation, and also studying paintings.
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Ok I tried an edit. I found what I wanted worked best with one more colour:
(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/469/skin2kd.png)
I didnt edit the image properly I just kind of crammed the colour between to illustrate, but I think the pallette works well for realism.
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I definitely see what you mean about mine looking cartoony, I wasn't sure if you were looking for photorealistic, or just believeable skin tones. After studying some photographs with people in them, it looks like I went a too red and saturated, and you went a bit too yellow and unsaturated. A 50-50 blend between my edit #1 and your original would probably come up with some reasonablely accurate colors. Neverest's edit is quite good, though still a tad jaundiced looking to me.
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here is my edit to the party.
Like Pawige said, I just kinda mixed his first edit and neverest's edit and came out with a pleasing pallete, one I'll be using in the future :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/radioactivity/TurboEdit.gif)
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Thanks people, that helps a lot. Both Radioactive and Neverest's edit's are closer to what i wanted, i'll be studying them. And i agree with the "too yellow" now, Pawige, kinda jumps out after looking at the edits. Both Radioactive and neverest added colors new, that does seem to improve plus the palette changes.
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study this:
http://www.gfxzone.org/personal/made/01/made-devil_inside.png
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what? helm, that looks like polished plastic.
I think your first one was good, the highlights just need a little saturation, yellow somehow looks greenish when desaturated.
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I fully disagree with Helm's. That's for making your tones look plastic. Read other people's crits.
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It's oily, of course. Way too many specular highlights, but I think the ramp itself when studied is very vald.
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It's oily, of course. Way too many specular highlights, but I think the ramp itself when studied is very vald.
i have to agree :D
ignoring the extreme highlights, the palette itself (also the human body in the background) is great
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It's oily, of course. Way too many specular highlights, but I think the ramp itself when studied is very vald.
i have to agree :D
ignoring the extreme highlights, the palette itself (also the human body in the background) is great
It's actually a merman... one of boris valejo's jobs... typical of the old skool demo artists who enjoyed copying anything from album covers to great works of art... (in their own superb way of course)
As far as skin tones are concerned... just do what looks nice... you can edit a pallette forever - with each edit having merits and non merits. Too ansewer the original enquiry however - I think you need to add at least 2 more shades on the darker end of the scale you have.... if you're wanting to avoid dither that is... (but then I think you've reached this conclusion already...)
:)
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study this:
http://www.gfxzone.org/personal/made/01/made-devil_inside.png
I have difficulty choosing skin tones and I don't think that just looking at skin tones really helps you get a feel for chosing the right colors. I never seem to understand or grasp color selection when people explain it so... I don't really think just looking at this would help choosing skin tones, personally. I guess, if you're as hard headed as me, it wouldn't.
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Be less hard-headed then. I didn't say 'look at this', I said 'study it'. This means, download the file, open it up in your paint program, zoom, study the shades, the dithers, the highlights, the aa and everything that goes into Made's choices. Ask yourself questions about the art. 'Why did Made do this here?' Justify choices in different ways. Find out if you agree with them, if yes, cool, add them to your skills, if not, great, you know what not to do. Nobody ever would call styding a piece by Made a waste of 10 minutes, for christ's sake.
I don't think that just looking at skin tones really helps you get a feel for chosing the right colors.
It's not the only way, but I feel studying art you like, as well as reality is a great way to memorize and codify the processes that you then use in your own art. If this doesn't work for you, and you say you don't grasp colour selection when people explain it to you either... I don't know what will help. Perhaps you shouldn't be so certain study and practise doesn't work, and you should do much, much more of them before you throw your hands up in despair?
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That would be fine. Helm's guide can help. Use whatever reference that is best.
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I have difficulty choosing skin tones and I don't think that just looking at skin tones really helps you get a feel for chosing the right colors. I never seem to understand or grasp color selection when people explain it so... I don't really think just looking at this would help choosing skin tones, personally. I guess, if you're as hard headed as me, it wouldn't.
Choosing colors in artwork is often an instinct more then a science, and some people have worked all their lives at mastering colors. Some people are born naturally with talents to do this, others aren't. For those who do not have the talent all there is left is hard work. Seriously, I have problems with color too and I don't understand when somebody tells me or explains it. So all there is left for people like you and me is pratice, pratice and pratice. Eventually you will get it. But count me out, I don't like art THAT much to pratice enough, lol. Anyway, don't give up. ;)
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I fully agree with helm on the matter. I seen that picture before and others like it and have analyzed them for my own purpouses...none of which ever got completed but hey, im a lazy bitch. Anyways, skintones are pretty much everywhere my friend, study your own skin textures and tones as well as those around you, dont limit yourself to a computer screen, broaden your horizons and see that there is more colour out there instead of inside this machine. When it finally comes to choosing colours, just take your time...make it look good, dont rush it to say you did this pixel piece within a certain time frame. A time frame is understandable when it comes to a payed job but when its casual art such as this, take your damn time and play with it, come up with multiple designs and colour combinations. das'bowt oll eh gut tuh sai braw, hav phun shuvvin' dem picksalls boi!
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Well said Helm, people should really take some time to just study someone elses art. You learn so much from it. Personally I think the best way to learn a new technique is to try to copy a pic (or part of it) as closely as possible. You can learn alot from that.
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Be less hard-headed then. I didn't say 'look at this', I said 'study it'. This means, download the file, open it up in your paint program, zoom, study the shades, the dithers, the highlights, the aa and everything that goes into Made's choices. Ask yourself questions about the art. 'Why did Made do this here?' Justify choices in different ways. Find out if you agree with them, if yes, cool, add them to your skills, if not, great, you know what not to do. Nobody ever would call styding a piece by Made a waste of 10 minutes, for christ's sake.
I don't think that just looking at skin tones really helps you get a feel for chosing the right colors.
It's not the only way, but I feel studying art you like, as well as reality is a great way to memorize and codify the processes that you then use in your own art. If this doesn't work for you, and you say you don't grasp colour selection when people explain it to you either... I don't know what will help. Perhaps you shouldn't be so certain study and practise doesn't work, and you should do much, much more of them before you throw your hands up in despair?
I didnt' mean to insinuate that I was giving up, I just wasn't sure exactly what you meant by "study" or what specifically. Usually when I look at these types of peices up close I don't know really what to look at. I do think it involves more practice and I do "study" peices, but this one just seemed a bit more confusing for me personally that's all. I wouldn't call it a waste of time to do it, though.
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Thanks for all the replies. I'm working on another piece, trying to rationalize and interiorize (...?) all these suggestions.
I am studying Helm's suggestion (among the other edits). There's at least 25+ colors on the woman's skin, and their choices and shading type led my first reaction to "color reduced cg", and the dithering does seem a bit chaotic too, which strengthens this belief. But there is the possibility that i'm wrong, and that this is complex technique.
It's hard to see order in the way the colors are chosen, he does small hue changes between main colors then adds a huge hue leap in inbetween colors , which are used in very small areas between those larger tones - by example, two large reddish areas with a line of greenish red pixels between them. Then, there are small brightness and saturation variations, but they don't follow any pattern in increasing/decreasing. The thing is that looking at it in 1x, these shifts aren't perceivable, but the final result comes together quite harmoniously. Are they necessary to achieve this effect? Probably, but how would one figure "i need more hues in the buffer colors", specially when working from reference?
These things are puzzling, and i when i figure them i will have learned, so it does help. Thx for the pointer, Helm :), and everyone.
Other people's visions help straightintg our skewed initial one.
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dont over-rationalize other people's suggestions, they're just suggestions, go with what strikes you right and dont try to imagine ominous undiscovered reasons behind every fault you see in a respected member's suggestion.
use your guts a little bit, it's what really counts in the end, what makes you an unique artist, sure listen to others but because of the very respect you have for them question what they say and give them a chance to back it up.
There isnt an ideal and completly undefiable set of skintones anyway, given that the primary lightsource is colorized enough a green could be a perfect skintone, so it all depends on what other colors are dominant in your picture. I belive you are way over-thinking this, if you are worried about skintones make a few pieces with varied color balances and bare skin on them then see what fits for you, but there's no holy grail of pure and undefiable skintones.