Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: KaiserFate on March 08, 2010, 08:46:21 pm
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(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/abortedslunk/Headbucket/lineup.gif)
Just a little something I whipped up in GraphicsGale. These characters will eventually be animated.
No doubt you can tell I was feeling more confident with every subsequent sprite, they are shown in chronological order of completion.
If you're wondering, the Deep Blues Gang is a small mob of gangsters who are also chess nerds. Each character is based off a chess piece. From left to right, they are Elvis Gloom, Victor Hedwig, Jean-Baptiste, Castello, Bauer and Art Galahad.
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(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/abortedslunk/more-hb/20-39/winston.gif)
Another character from the same project. He's one of the goodies, a cyborg called Winston. I deliberately wanted his weapon to be about as big as him in kind of a stab at characters like Cloud. Ended up just looking like a huge assault rifle, though, which I guess is okay.
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Hey, these are some funky characters! You've got some nice flash animations on your gallery so I'm interested to see how these animations come out. Now on to the critique.
My biggest issue: these are too messy! The main culprits seem to be too many black lines and too much dithering.
Too many black lines can overpower a sprite. Try coloring the outlines in places, and even completely omitting outlines. The internal details especially can get lost with lots of outlining. You have really direct control of lights and shades at this resolution. Try thinking more in terms of rendering solid forms rather than laying down flat images.
Dithering... I'd say drop most if not all of the dithering from the sprites. You can better show form by adding a "buffer" shade between your highlight and shadow. And I imagine it could be a chore to animate those dither-patterns.
These characters are all very unique, and they aren't served well by using the same palette. I'd like to see them all get unique skin tones and different colors themes. I'm not sure what your restrictions are, if any, but traditionally sprites like these might each get a unique 16 color palette.
I made an edit of this Winston fellow to address some specific points.
(http://nogetdue.com/junk/winston.png)
- Colored parts of the outlines, removed much of the internal outlining.
- Cleaned up internal details, especially on the gun and face.
- Removed lots of specular highlights. It was a bit overkill methinks.
- Added another blue shade to act as a buffer.
- Tweaked skin colors for a less pale look, utilized some of the browns from the hat/armor for skin tones.
The biggest change I made was eliminating most of the single pixels that stood out. Wilson in particular suffers from this, and it contributes a great deal to the messyness. There are lots of places, I'm thinking his vest especially, where there are little bright or dark pixels sitting all by themselves. Pixels tend to want to stay together in clusters. When left along they tend to stick out like a sore thumb.
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Wicked critique, thanks a lot.
Let me explain myself for how I approached these sprites, but I will definitely be taking your advice into consideration.
-The internal lines and very limited pallette (I deliberately avoided using more colours than necessary) were attributed to the fact that I want this to look like a game from the 8-bit era, i.e. the NES. If anything I almost felt like I was using *too* many colours for this purpose. A lot of your advice (which is excellent, and duly noted, by the way) applies more to 16-bit consoles; they'd look much better on the SNES or GBA. Internal black lines and dithering seem to be very common on the 8-bit systems out of necessity.
As for the wayward pixels on Winston's chestplate, I was trying to go for bolts running up his chest, but the resolution here is probably too slow.
As it happens, I am actually thinking of making two sets of sprites for all these characters - one set for use on an isometric plane (the sprites you see here), limited to a more 8-bit look, and a second more complicated set once I've warmed up in a sidescrolling shooter look. I had intended these second sets to look better qual, higher resolution etc, so perhaps I will bump it up to 16-bit altogether with those sets using buffer shades and coloured inner lines.
Sound good?
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I did misinterpret these as 16-bit era sprites. The NES limitation thing sounds like great idea. Check out the Cinematendo (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=6023.0) thread, it's got some details on the restrictions of NES graphics.
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Ditch the dithering on the sprites. I don't think I've ever seen an NES sprite or enemy built of tiles use dithering for shading, so there's no obligation to use it just for NES sake.
May need to adjust your color ramps to take account the black in the sprite too.
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(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/abortedslunk/more-hb/20-39/unstippled.gif)
How about this? I tackled the three main offenders for dithering and decided to just flatten them out.
Are these an improvement?
I also realised that since drawing these sprites, I added a new grey for Winston which I implemented as a buffer shade for Bauer at the bottom.
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They definitely are much improved however for 8-bit aesthetic you sorta need to use 3 colors+transp *for the whole sprite segment* (as cut up by 8x8 attributes). This is what makes the NES/commodore 64 aesthetic what it is, really. ZX Spectrum is even harsher where sprites often where 1bit affairs (as is commodore in hi-res mode), but still.
Here is for example an approximation of 8-bitfying your sprite
(http://www.locustleaves.com/8bitdude.png)
It's made out of 6 8x8 tiles and most of them only have black, two colors and transparency. This is better than the NES can do for example, and the green on the eyes would probably not even be there.
To make things even more complicated on a real NES you couldn't just pick some pleasing colors and use them, it had a built in palette of 64 if memory serves and you'd use the colors you were going to use for a lot of other game artifacts that use the same palettes too, usually all the powerups and projectiles from the same character would use his palette. So Your guy would throw out a lot of 1bit green projectiles probably heh.
However are all these restrictions worth it? Yes in my opinion because they make the sprite look more authentic 8-bit and for those that 8-bit matters I guess that plays an interesting part. What you've going going right now actually reminds me of a very real time in game development: the shift from 8 bits to 16 bits on consoles like the mega drive and the turbo gfx 16, where developers were used to making games for the NES and they didn't know what to do with their more colors-per-sprite so their art looked like reskinned NES art heh. A *lot* of early mega drive games look like that.
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Interesting point. Reminds me of when I used to compare Super Mario World to Super Metroid.
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/proffate/zooba/zzzzz.png)
Super Mario World sprites look a bit more colourful than what you see on the NES but not much more complex than the spritework on some of the better games on the NES. The way it's shaded is more like how I've approached these ones, except I kept the NES black outlines prevalent in many games.
Then there's Metroid, which while not infinitely more complicated, is much more sophisticated in its approach than the Mario sprites. They sat down and thought hard about how to use the resources to look like solid, real-looking 3D shapes. I wasn't going for that, myself, aiming for a more primitive look.
I think for the time being I'll probably keep going with these sprites in a kind of limbo "12-bit" - the project itself is purely for fun and is not a diehard Nintendo tribute by any means - but in future I'll always know to pay special attention to what my imagined "system" can handle. Let's say these were made for the ill-fated GameStation X. :I
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I think you're suffering from line-art-itis!
As in you (or some part of your brain) put the lines of the line art in very high regards and work with that as the base of everything - giving your art a very relief-like appearance.
Let me explain - I think that some parts of your sprites would greatly benefit from not having highlights/shadow at all, and that you should issue shading and highlighting in a manner that maximizes the readability of the sprites - whereas I felt you often go down the route of 'this area is enclosed by lines - this is the direction of the light source - this part gets shadow and this part gets highlight'
see what I mean? The brown agent guy would probably benefit from having his farther arm completely dark for example, just to really push it into the background and emphasize 3dness.
Blue guy looks pillow shaded, even. I'd recommend you go with a light source straight from the top and shade accordingly. If you did this, his coat would probably shadow his legs so much there would be no highlight on them - so be it. I think it'd look better that way.
Sculpt more with the lighting - build more shapes! And if there's anything you don't get about what I'm saying then I'll be glad to make an edit for you when I'm less tired!
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Haha, thanks, a quick edit would be very much appreciated.
Although I do understand the basic gist of what you're saying.
I actually come from an illustration background and because of this, I do think very strongly in terms of lines, shapes and treating each 'part' with a light source.
The main problem I'm having with pixelart right now is that I'm finding it's very limiting, but when I work within those limitations I'm apparently not doing it properly (black lines, dithering etc). There's a whole art to this that I am quite new to, I'm trying to start out slow but it may take a while before I start hitting all the right keys.
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I'm currently studying what NES games do use black outlines to see why it works for those games (note that not every NES game even uses black outlines for sprites), but for now it's extremely important to work with the form over the lines, and try to avoid over emphasizing the lines.
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I'm currently studying what NES games do use black outlines to see why it works for those games (note that not every NES game even uses black outlines for sprites), but for now it's extremely important to work with the form over the lines, and try to avoid over emphasizing the lines.
Yeah, not all games use the black outlines, I just liked the look of the games that do. But thank you all for your help, it's been extremely helpful so far!!
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Not to be offtopic or something, but most nes games that "had" black outlines had a black background.
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Right, though there are a couple with non-black backgrounds.
The only reason I don't want to talk about black outline techniques any further because it obviously isn't considered a good practice, NES or not.
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Okay, let me ask you guys something.
I've given it some thought and I've decided to edit out the black outlines. Personally I like the look of black outlines on these sprites but I'm hearing from just about everyone that it's 'not right' and that it's not how real artists of this variety create their images.
So the question is, if I want these sprites to look just a little bit more than 8-bittish - they give off a Nintendo 'vibe' but with less restrictions (we'll say it was one of the first games of the 16-bit era and made by a team of seasoned 8-bit artists who were still finding their feet);
What exactly do I do with the outlines? Do I give them the 'knockout' treatment, and make each line a darker colour of the fill colour neighbouring it? Do I do this to all of the lines, including the outside ones? Should I ever use black, anywhere? What exactly IS the 'correct method'?
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I've given it some thought and I've decided to edit out the black outlines. Personally I like the look of black outlines on these sprites but I'm hearing from just about everyone that it's 'not right' and that it's not how real artists of this variety create their images.
The problem is not that it's "right" or "not right". The problem isn't even that it's "not NES". Even in NES sprites - as you pointed out - some do use black art lines (I spotted it on Chip'n'Dale, for instance), some don't, some use coloured outlines (TNMT), some have a black "outline", but no black "artline" (megaman).
The problem is to ensure that your character has:
- good readability on any of your game's background
- clear identification of its features.
The thing is, black lines draw attention very strongly. And because you're doing pixel art, they can quickly become too thick compared to the rest. They also "flatten" your overall work because they don't match the lightning: they're black regardless of whether this is a shadowed or a enlightened area. For that reason, people that want to convey volume of their characters (as opposed to cartoon-looking sprites) prefer to use tinted out/art lines because it's easier to adjust the shade you use for the line compared to the shade you use for the shape.
They won't be any issue with characters such as Mr. Trenchcoat or Mr. BigBlue. Your winston cyborg has much more features, but he's smaller than the other guys. At that scale, black art lines degrade readability. Finger and face are hard to identify. The gun and chestplate look flat because having strong black breaks the effect of close specular spots.
Generally speaking, as size decrease, artline-based pixel art becomes more and more difficult to master because one misplaced pixel breaks the whole thing (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8110.msg92619#msg92619). Helm has a great theory for that, which I personnally failed to practice so far.
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Well, if you personally like the black lines, keep them. I don't think anyone will be mad at you or anything. There's no point pursuing criteria that you yourself don't see the value of. If you don't assess your work by your own principles you're working blind. (there has been a lot of talk lately about "rules", not sure what's causing it?)
My opinion is that the lines work okay in the larger characters like Castello, who looks like a character from a charming point-&-click adventure, & works poorly with the smaller characters, because, as has been pointed out, the line-weight changes with the relative size of the sprite.
Here's an attempt to convey how thick a 1px line is at this size, perceptually.
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr257/xv8w1h0s/winston-edit3.gif)
If you like thick lines, then that might not be a problem.
If you'd like suggestions for a technique to use, I suggest what blumunkee did up there - light-dependent outlines, I think they're sometimes called. Has lines, easy on the eyes.
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PypeBros and Mr. Numbers, thank you very much for your insights.
Makes a lot of sense, actually. I see what you mean about how as my sprites get smaller, black becomes more dominant.
Winston in particular gave me a lot of trouble because he is very complex but also very small. I'm going to have another go at some of the characters who seem too 'packed' - Winston is surely in that category, and I was also thinking of giving Victor Hedwig and Elvis Gloom a bit of a facelift (but that is in general owing a lot to the fact that I started with them and got to a stage well past them as I worked on the newer sprites).
Edit: Just finished an edit of Winston.
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/abortedslunk/more-hb/20-39/winston2.gif)
He now has a five-o-clock shadow, his metallic hilights and glints are now far less busy (and as a result, the gunshape is clearer), and I incorporated the chestplate suggestion. I think overall the design looks a lot tighter now, and at this resolution especially, the forms are more obvious.
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First of all, no matter what kind of pixel piece you're doing, try to rely on shading and highlights for detail when possible. Even for a naturally cartoony piece, you need to have the mindset of a sculptor creating a 3D image, where colors lift or push a part of a picture into different planes. This is needed on the face where the left eye thing and the mouth are seemingly outlined (I think the older piece is actually better in regards to the face due to a creation of a 3D shape).
The gun isn't gripped very well, and seems to be at a very odd angle. The thumb should wrap around the other side of the gun handle.
Also, get creative with your gray colors. Instead of several levels of gray, toss in colors here and there among the grays in order to create vibrant effects to the gray.
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Now for critique specific to this style.
When working with black, your colors need to dominate the black lines in order to create volume. They need to fight the good fight for attention, and win such a fight in order for black to be effective. Your "main" colors need to be distinct and contrasting from black to create a balance, and this usually means high contrast color ramps. Usually your color ramps are going to start at a dark color and end at a very bright color (like your red to yellow colors), and often make use of specular highlights that make colors capable of overpowering black.
But in cases like the blue pants where the main color is already very dark and needs to remain dark and it doesn't make much sense to have strong highlights, you usually need to darken its shades in order to make the main color more contrasting. With NES colors, it gets to the point where you may as well use black itself for the shading, which can make the main blue a strong enough color to create a 3D image despite not being a bright color.
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Yeah okay I'm officially getting really confused because it seems like everyone is contradicting each other with my critiques, lol.
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There doesn't need to be a consensus. If a crit is correct, it'll make you say to yourself "Oh! Right! That makes sense." May the best crit win.
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There's doesn't need to be a consensus. If a crit is correct, it'll make you say to yourself "Oh! Right! That makes sense." May the best crit win.
In any case I've come away from this thread so far with vastly improved skills so I hope I didn't sound ungrateful just before. Thanks to everyone for your awesome insights, they've really helped!!
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Basically, all you have to remember is that whatever looks best with your game. That is the most fundamental point that as 7321551 pointed out is being forgotten. There shouldn't be a clear-cut practice to doing pixel art, it is more about what you do to make your pixel art look the best. I'm guessing you've given up on the first three guys but some problems with your sprites is that the outlines appear jagged. This is how to avoid without expanding your pallette/black outlines but there are other things to help. Some of your black lines could be improved by making them more uniform (check out Derek Yu's tutorial it aims to create something similar to what you are doing now but not 8-bit). For example, your robot's orange shoulder and hat are really quite jagged. I know your trying to get the right shape but I think you can still improve the lines. In addition, some of your shading emphasizes the disjoints in your lines, for example the knight guy's arms look extra jagged/parts of his jacket. The pawn guy (I'm guessing) had been shaded better than the others as the light source is more angled as KittenMaster suggested. Also, a point that KittenMaster said is that grey is generally avoided in art, though there are alot of exceptions so consider this with your sprites, personally, I don't think it's much of an issue. Finally, the the pawn guy looks as though he is diseased with those stray pixels (it works with the others).