Pixelation

Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 07:07:19 am

Title: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 07:07:19 am
Well I tried to do something with a reference but I kinda failed.
My anatomy is completely wrong and my image isn't really matching the reference but I think these problems might get fixed by repeating pixeling with other references haha :D

But then I tried to make the hair and I had absolutely no clue.
I just made something. I'm not sure if I'm able to figure this on out by myself. So I would appreciate if someone could tell me how hair shading works ? o.O
(of course every kind of critic is welcome!)

(http://i.imgur.com/PJNbM3S.png)

Reference:
http://fruitbatfactory.com/100orange/img/QP.png
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Roach on December 31, 2015, 07:18:01 am
I don't think it looks too bad honestly? the only experience I have drawing hair is on this guy
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb417/spaghettiman666/Image2_zpsvzncg7pz.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Glak on December 31, 2015, 07:40:08 am
Your hair is great actually.  I think that it is better than the reference.  The shin on the bent leg is too long.  Foreshorten it to match your reference.
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Ambivorous on December 31, 2015, 07:54:58 am
(http://i.imgur.com/TUPcXLv.png)

Added more contrast (darkened the shadow and added a new highlight), removed some of the lighten colour from the lower parts of the hair that shouldn't receive much sunlight, and added the anime hair halo thing using the colour from her face.
You don't need to add more contrast, because your reference doesn't, but it should help you see what you're doing better.

But hey you said it yourself you'll get better with practice, so just keep it up man.  :y:
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 08:03:41 am
@Roach thank you for replying!

@Ambivorous Thank you very much! This is exactly what I needed! The next time I draw hair I will try to reproduce this. This really helps :D
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: uok on December 31, 2015, 08:12:30 am
I think the problem is the shape of the hair, everything goes everywhere like she just got out of the bed. How does this look?

(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/tospik/Pusty%20-%20Hair%20Edit_zpsimmnqbez.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 08:23:51 am
(http://i.imgur.com/VfLEzHA.png)

@uok
Thank you very much! This indeed makes the hair look better. Although I'm not sure if it fits the style of the rest because I haven't used such lines (as I can't stand them).
But I will take it in consideration the next time I do hair. :D
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Okami Amaterasu on December 31, 2015, 02:14:43 pm
Another thing that will help you with the hair is the head itself. Its shape seems inconsistent to me, you could use some shading to show theres a neck too. Also, the colors need contrast, try some larger hue difference between the values, it could help!
(http://i.imgur.com/xDtIIZs.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 07:29:18 pm
@Okami Amaterasu
Thank you very much! :D I though I already had some contrast but seeing the picture you made I see how to make it better. Also the way you defined the face with this help line is very helpful, as I can see how this will make things easier! With you image I also realised how I can improve my color choices by making the pallete before drawing something lol
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Friend on December 31, 2015, 07:59:54 pm
@Okami Amaterasu
Thank you very much! :D I though I already had some contrast but seeing the picture you made I see how to make it better. Also the way you defined the face with this help line is very helpful, as I can see how this will make things easier! With you image I also realised how I can improve my color choices by making the pallete before drawing something lol

what makes you think he made the palette beforehand?  Making your palette beforehand also does not mean it is better.  in fact i think it would almost always be better to tweak it as you go along because it is hard to tell how well the colors can go for your intended look without first using them.  even painters are constantly tweaking their palette as they go along by continuing to mix colors to their pre-existing ones

what software do you use?  knowing your software can help you tweak your palette in a jiffy.

Here's a valuable tip i learned from PPD  a while ago.  To test your palette, turn yo' image to greyscale- once it's in greyscale, you can see the values clearly.  The common goal is to make sure they greyscale version has a wide range of values to ensure your image pops with enough contrast! 

(http://i.imgur.com/CWlaVoo.png) 

Note that there are problem areas in your version Okami fixed.  for instance, his eye saw that the bright ears got lost in the bright background, so he not only darkened them but also made them even easier for the eye to see by adding a dark outline.  this is good, because you want it to be easy for the eye to see every detail.  it also looks better.  note improvements to contrast throughout the whole image.  for instance, shading in the skirt needed to be more easy to see.

once you train your eye to better see the range of values in your colors, you dont even need they greyscale tip, though it can still come in handy at times
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 09:18:33 pm
@Friend wow I never looked at the grayscale image but I have seen that some colors are harder to see. Thank you this is really helping!
I'm mostly using ProMotion. I though he made it beforehand because the colors have relations with each other (and ain't just strait lines) ,well I didn't mean to pick colors and never change them I just meant the relations.


Well I tried to use some of the stuff I learned and made a new image (as I'm not really able to redo something because I always fall back to use the original ^^)
I'm not too happy with the eyes and I know it is not good in general but I hope I improved a bit:

(http://i.imgur.com/FP3QpTB.png)

Referenze:
http://fruitbatfactory.com/100orange/img/Suguri.png
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Friend on December 31, 2015, 11:08:39 pm
it's a step in the right direction.  the hair and skirt have better contrast.  :)  though the hair probably now has too much if you're not gonna use an intermediate color. the shirt needs more contrast though.

i hope this helps:

(http://i.imgur.com/TsAQiyr.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on December 31, 2015, 11:47:36 pm
Thank you! I tried to adjust things:

(http://i.imgur.com/ivanmvx.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Friend on January 01, 2016, 12:08:22 am
great  :) the contrast is wonderful and everything is very easy to see yet well balanced.  now try improving your pixel clusters.  how i do it is i sorta chicken scratch in an  idea of the cluster i want.  after i can see that the cluster will work, i go back and refine, noting every pixel's influence on the cluster.  this may mean altering several pixels or maybe only 1-3.  sometimes i have to AA a particularly complicated cluster into the right shape. 

many of your pixel clusters can be refined into a more controlled shape, but particularly ugly clusters are the light hair clusters sticking out of the hair in shadow-the clusters near the bottom right of her hair.  the more refined your clusters, the better your pixel art will be.

take another crack at the eyes.  something like that just may take practice and trial and error and lots of moving of single pixels. 

lastly, it might not be necessary to shade the head.  we already get the round feel of the head by the shape and shading of the hair on top of her head.  shading the head may take away from the anime feel in this case, making it look more like a toy doll, but i could be wrong
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Seiseki on January 01, 2016, 09:24:05 am
You should take another look at the reference.
Mainly the eyes, you're missing the eye whites and the reflection.
This makes it look like she has red matte sunshades on.

Also, you keep missing the jaw, in this one and the previous one. Without a defined jaw it looks kinda freaky, like a balloon head.
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 01, 2016, 10:28:19 am
@Seiseki
Thank you! I have looked at the reference and then I noticed it as well. No clue how I have overseen that.
The reflection on the other hand was noticed by me but I have not clue how to implement that (I tried for half a hour but really nothing looked nearly like a reflection)

You are right! These look like a balloon heads lol. But I'm not sure what you meant by defining the jaw , I tried some stuff (and I'm able to imagine how it should look like) but I don't think this good enough (if it's any good that is)

(http://i.imgur.com/7BkHhAt.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Seiseki on January 01, 2016, 10:56:11 am
You don't want a smooth transition between neck and face, the previous dark shade you had on the chin and up the cheek looked like one connected piece.
But it doesn't look as jarring now when you removed it. Adding the eye whites is also a huge improvement.

If you look at Friend's edit, he also puffed up her right cheek which I think balances out the head more and gives you that typical anime shape.
Also, you should look at his eyes, especially the dark outlines which further helps sell the anime style.

Remember, some things look kinda odd up close, especially eye reflections, since they tend to bleed into the eye whites. But you can't only look at it zoomed in.

Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 01, 2016, 07:49:04 pm
Hmm I tried a bit not sure tho':

(http://i.imgur.com/kdzZKtc.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Friend on January 01, 2016, 08:52:53 pm
dude that's awesome improvement over your original.  You actually captured the emotion of suguri really well.  The only thing i'd work on is just pixeling more carefully, going back to the thing about pixel clusters.  Everything is there, it just needs to be cleaned up.  Get rid of jaggies and ugly clusters.  Smooth clusters into nice curves and flowing shapes.  This breaks up the pixel grid and makes it look more like you arent so restricted by blocky shapes. 

not sure if this helps but i went and made a chart showing your improvement in addition to my finished version


(http://i.imgur.com/ogjisN8.png)

(didnt realize her shirt was white lol)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 01, 2016, 11:06:27 pm
Not sure if these changes make anything better. (Thanks for giving me so much feedback! :D)

(http://i.imgur.com/zdX3pCQ.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Friend on January 01, 2016, 11:50:38 pm
Not sure if these changes make anything better. (Thanks for giving me so much feedback! :D)

(http://i.imgur.com/zdX3pCQ.png)

(http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif)


jk lol.  it's a huge improvement over your original.  cant wait to see what you do next
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Ambivorous on January 01, 2016, 11:54:14 pm
Really liking your dedication and progress, Pusty! Please keep it up.

I feel like you're not doing much with your clothes. No wrinkles or variation enough.
Seems like her clothes are being treated like a chore, but really they're an opportunity to add in some character and shape.

(http://i.imgur.com/9Yd2BKs.png)

I also made the hair a little more like the reference (I think, I don't actually know this character).
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 02, 2016, 12:49:55 am
Hmm yeah I never made something with the clothings because I wasn't sure how to shade it hmm

(http://i.imgur.com/oVo1neV.png)


Edit:
Well I'm very thankful for all your help ^^
I tried to use the things I learned on the first image as well and I think it looks way better

(http://i.imgur.com/GmpPh6p.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Seiseki on January 04, 2016, 08:49:11 am
The old one has a very extreme balloon head look. It's like the jaw is completely missing..

edit:

(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-23331/animu.png)

Attempted an edit..
The reference image has a kinda strange jaw shape.. also the face is very long and the hair is pretty straight..
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 04, 2016, 12:37:52 pm
Thanks for your edit! :D

Is this any better?
(http://i.imgur.com/0GKhMpX.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: uok on January 04, 2016, 12:43:11 pm
I just can't help but imagine her hair as sausages that she's trying her hardest to take a bite out of  :lol:

I think you should get her left nekomimi a few pixels higher and erase a few pixels from the leftmost forward bang so we can see the left side of her neck... Okay I'll show it, just wait a sec :D

Did it;
(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/tospik/Pusty%20-%20Hair_zps7g3iwti0.png)
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 04, 2016, 12:59:30 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/kyKmgo6.png)

I just can't help but imagine her hair as sausages that she's trying her hardest to take a bite out of  :lol:

I can't even imagine how something like that would look like xD
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Ambivorous on January 04, 2016, 03:12:57 pm
Her body is all over the place and kinda wonky. I copied the reference for her pose.

(http://i.imgur.com/tx2yELk.png)

Hands and arms bigger, legs and feet smaller. Her arms, head and right leg make a cross (which is pretty important to get the same pose). Got the ears aligned and did the jaw thing.
Title: Re: I'm really bad at drawing hair
Post by: Pusty on January 05, 2016, 07:56:56 pm
Thank you for your edit!
Well like I said I don't like redoing stuff thus this isn't this a complete redraw and not really like the reference.
But as you took your time to make an edit I tried my best to do the same :D

(http://i.imgur.com/q3pfnas.png)