Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Xooxer on December 06, 2007, 08:40:00 pm
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Hey gang! Long time no post. :D
I was playing around with a basic 3/4 view 32x32 RPG character base, and I guess it's been a while since I've done any real pixel art, because I can't seem to come up with a decent side view that fits with the front and back. I was wondering if any of you had some pointers or tips on how I could approach this. Here's my sprite thus far, with a little cool dude to show how it might look clothed with hair and a bad sword. :P
C+C always welcome. Thanks!
basic front/back view:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar.png)
3 frame walking animation:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar-1.gif)
cool dude:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/cooldude.png)
~X
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar-right.png)
Meh, it's better than anything I've tried so far, but I'm still not happy with it.
~X
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Can't help with side view. Something i noticed for front and back is the shoulders are too wide. The way the feet bend out on back view seems wrong. I wonder if lighter color for midtone would be better. The cool dude looks too much front on rather than top down.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar2.png)
How's that? I'll tweak the colors later. Not sure what I could do to make the clothed figure look more in perspective for you.
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I'm sure it'd have something to do with how long legs are ... maybe wait for someone who knows more about rpgs.
I like those new shoulders but maybe now he looks wimpy?
The legs are weird because they bend out.
Tried an edit, I'm new at hue shifting so take with grain of salt.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/rpgdude.gif)
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Eh, your edit looks like a flexing mulscled baby. :P
I'd like to show have the legs slightly parted, not just straight up and down. I could try raising the split a pixel and see if that helps.
Ok, here's some more edits, and I threw in the cool guy with the same adjustments to see how it's translate.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar3.png)
I think it looks better. He doesn't have to be completely buff, but some tone is nice.
~X
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Alright, I played a bit with the colors, though it's kind of hard for me to tell how it really looks on this laptop. Seems kind of redish, but it might be me.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/Xooxer/rpgchar-color.png)
~X
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his edit is not much different to yours Xooxer, just has better readability.. Ive tried to continue onto sharprms edit because the use of colour is a vast improvement, maybe too much hue shifting but imo it looks much easier on the eyes. What I think you need to do is simplify this into an easy to read position, it seems like you're trying to fit an overcomplicated pose into such a small canvas.
Theres no need to try make your character soo beefed, work on making him look defined more than anything, you want him to look solid and controlled.. Not puffed up like a soft balloon.
(http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3364/rpgcharxm9.png)
help atall?
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Eh, it doesn't really help. You've taken away any definition in the arms, and gave way to much in the abdomen. Not to mention it barely resembles a human; it's really green. I'm not looking for a direct lighting source, either, which you both seem to imply. I don't think my pose is all that complicated. I wanted something that looks a bit more dynamic than a tree trunk with a bobble head, hence the parted stance. I admit I over did it with my first draft, but I really don't see anything wrong with my current edit. I can give the colors another shot, and perhaps add in a fourth skin tone to smooth things out a bit. I can AA the outter edge as well. The game environment I work with allows for alpha transparencies, so no reason I should be using hard outlines.
Thanks for your input guys, but what I really could use help with is that side view. :P
~X
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Found some chrono trigger sprites:
http://www.videogamesprites.net/ChronoTrigger/Party/Crono/ (http://www.videogamesprites.net/ChronoTrigger/Party/Crono/)
Might be better if you use redish shade for skin as with crono. Also, they have the head more side on for side view. It looks like they only have three tones for skin so maybe just find right shades.
I like Terley's legs, they don't look stange at the bottom like yours. While i think the arms are a bit too thin, simplification seems like a good idea at this scale.
I think the spine on his back view is too short.
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I really don't care what colors Chrono Trigger used. That's not what this post is about. I'm not going to simplify the pose any more than it already is. I want to see muscles, so I will show them. I don't want cartoonishly huge hands and feet, I don't care about the skin tone at this point. I just need a bit of help with that side view. Your CR sprite link doesn't help me there. :-\
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Im not a moderator so i'll spare you a sermon about your attitude and get straight to critique:
the perspective issue has nothing to do with the legs (which are already shorter than a real person, they should be nearly half his height starting after the genitals) and everything to do with the pose. brgin the feet closer together and you will automatically enhance perspective.
personally i would say to avoid being too detailed in a sprite of this size unless you want him to show like, street fighter muscles. when you shrink down a real person your shapes will not be anywhere near so visible (and your silhouette will also be a lot more defined)
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Sorry, but I don't feel like I need to take in every suggestion that some random person has and apply it to my art. I don't want my characters to look like that. I didn't ask for help with the colors or the length of the legs, or how long his spine is. I adjusted my character when it seemed like a good suggestion, but I'm not transforming it into something that resembles your idea of a perfect sprite. I just wanted some help with the side view. That's it. If you don't want to help, that's fine. I'll take your advice and apply it if I think it furthurs my character, but not every idea that's thrown at me is going to get applied. If you think this means I have an attitude because I won't make my charcater look like a wimpy green alien, that's your problem.
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I apologize to the mods for the following and will gladly take a strike if necessary:
Xooxer: It's not an issue of whether you take the criticisms, it's about whether you are being a douche. Criticism is about what you need to hear, not what you think you want. In addition, I and anyone else here could give a damn what you do with your sprite, but it isn't fair to them to have you spit in their faces for offering free advice. There's no reason for you to act the way you are. There are polite ways to say that you don't agree. I suggest you explore them, quickly.
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If anyone here is being a douche, sir, it is you. I thanked sharprm and Terley for thier help, but said that it wasn't what I was looking for. Perhaps you missed that. I stated clearly, a number of times, that I'm just looking for some help with this one side view. If I was being a jerk, I wouldn't have even taken thier critiques about the front and back into consideration, let alone altered the sprite accordingly. I'm not trying to sound ungrateful, or condescending, and if I came across that way to sharprm and Terley, I do appologise, but no soup for you.
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Adarias was right. Xooxer, you have an attitude and it don't make no sense for you to post here if you don't like criticism. Don't pretend you were super polite to to me and Terley. I'm offended by you calling me 'random'. I took time to make these two edits and to find a good reference for you because I wanted to help. I don't like your put downs for edits either. One of us has a dodgy monitor becuase those shades dont look green to me at all.
Why shouldn't you look at the side view for crono? I remembered that game having dynamic poses and some really good artists worked on those.
You can't fix the side view without fixing the front and back.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/rpg2-1.gif)
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I'm not trying to sound ungrateful, or condescending
then you need to change your gameplan, mate. starting with a whole post of edit-bashing and adding "but thanks" at the end doesn't express gratitude or humility in any way.
sharprm - my monitor shows it as gray, but my monitor also displays 125, 40, 20 as a deep rose (when it's supposed to be brown)
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You are random. Anyone could have posted a reply, it happened to be you. I'd call that random, unless there's some secret queue I'm unaware of. And I certainly can alter the side view without having to touch either the front or the back. If that was all I had shown you, you never would have mentioned them. I'll be sure next time not to post anything but the exact pixels I'm inquiring about.
Not take critism? Oh for crying out loud.
Try to see it from my point of view. I ask for help with this side view. You all make no mention of my question, but bring up 10 other things you think is wrong with my other views. That's fine. It's true they too needed work and I'm not going to write off your help because it doesn't answer my question. But when you start getting into things which will severly alter the look and feel of my character, and in no way attempt to answer my original question, it simply doesn't help me. I'm not copping an attitude, I'm trying to get the focus back on this side view.
I don't see how CR sprites help. Yes, it's dynamic. Yes they have nice contrast, but if I wanted CR sprites, I would have ripped them. He's full clothed, which makes it rather difficult to see any real form.
Quit being so defensive. I'm not trying to bash you. I just would like someone to post something that sort of resembles an answer to my one and only question. I don't want to get into color counts, hue shifting or simplified poses. This is the pose I'm using, that's final. If you don't want to help with that, then don't expect me to reply with flowers and kisses.
~X
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Forget it. I'll work it out myself. Thanks for your help.
~X
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(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/rpg2-1.gif)
I don't get it, this edit right here is more than enough use for improvement, good color/contrast and he doesn't look so segmented either.
whatever floats yo boat though.
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(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/rpg2-1.gif)
I don't get it, this edit right here is more than enough use for improvement, good color/contrast and he doesn't look so segmented either.
whatever floats yo boat though.
Perhaps It has to do with being called a douche, but I don't really feel like pushing pixels right now, or even discussing this matter any further. I certainly wouldnlt want to hurt anyone's feelings over a few sprites. >:(
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Hey, shut your mouth, these people are helping you and you're asking for a ban.
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Yeah, that doesn't help matters any. If the mods think I should be banned, then that's thier right. Don't foul your reputation by being rude in return.
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I said shut your mouth boy. You've done nothing but disrespect everyone here.
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Wow, ok... Really, that's uncalled for. If I was being disrespectful to those that helped me, then again, I apologize. That's no reason for your posts, though. I didn't disrespect you in any form, please don't disrespect me.
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You've disrespected this community, all you've done is throw their helpful critiques back at them.
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I don't appreciate you private messaging me with cursing and foul language, no matter how badly you spell the words. Quit it. This topic is dead, stop trying to defend it, you're just making it worse.
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I told you what I felt in that PM, you just brought it up in this topic to get me in trouble. If I'm banned for this so be it but I don't like your punk ass being disrespectful.
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Since apparently you wont take anything to actually improve your art, but simply your pose, ill crit on that.
your front view portrays to me two things:
spread legs, and wide shoulders.
well...two things that stand out the most.
ahem
your sideview person, while I understand it is sideview and will look thinner, doesnt portray these things to me.
it looks like a completely different person/pose.
IF you really intend to keep the pose of the front view person(though i dont think that wise, but you are not asking for crit on it)
then i think you need to make the shoulders and legs in the sideview match those of the shoulders and legs in the front view more.
the arms also seem smaller.
even though they are different views, they are still the same amount of mass : P
hope this helped.
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??? I will take things to improve my art. Isn't that the whole point of Pixelation? I didn't recognise certain suggest as improvements, that's all. Thier edits drastically altered the look I was going for. I'm not new to pixeling. I've been doing this for quite some years now. It's been a while, granted, but It's not like I don't know what a light source is, color counts or hues. I'm just not going for that sort of look. I want a musclular figure. My colors may be a bitt off, it's hard to tell on this laptop. That doesn't mean I won't take any critism at all. I just would have liked people to talk about what I had posted about in the first place, not everything but.
But, yes, your remarks do help. I think I could thicken up the torso more, which would give me more sway on the arms and legs. I'll give it a shot in the morn'. Thanks.
~X
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Using the whole "I'm going for a certain style lol!" is just an excuse, their edits are perfectly fine and if you'd like to improve you'd take their "suggestions"(critiques) into consideration. Be prepared to give things up when getting critiques, sometimes, you just gotta give them up for the better of things. What you've been doing is getting great crits and you know, just telling them whats wrong with their edit(Which to be honest, there's nothing wrong, they've improved on your sprite in every way) and how they're being rude, bawwwwing basically, this is what angered me. I mean come on man, you rejected Adarias' advice and just told him how mean he was being(Shit, the guy was still calm, was surprised honestly), he's like one of the best artists here, I think he knows what he's talking about.
Like how every mod says it:
"Reconsider your usage of the forum"
Instead of being a complete arrogant jackass to everyone, try being nice. Because if you don't change, eventually no one will post in your threads, I mean why would they? I wouldn't want to help a guy whose been talking crap to me.
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Um, wow. Ok. So, kids, I need you all to settle down just a little bit. First of all, Xooxer, you ARE out of line. I might not go so far as to call you a douche, but, you know then I might. This is a critique board. What this means is when you post your work here, people will critique it. Sometimes people will spend a lot of their personal time providing guidance and advice for you. What this boils down to is what might appear to be a double standard; people posting about your work might be a little harsh, as it is a common belief here that the best medicine sometimes tastes the worst. However, folks posting edits to help you out are not exactly volunteering for the same treatment, do you get my drift? For example, Sharpm posted an edit that improved on many, many aspects of your original artwork, and your response was:
Eh, your edit looks like a flexing mulscled baby.
This is not a good way to respond to someone who is trying to help, and has provided you with a lot of valid guidance. It is condescending, and it is ungrateful. THEN, of all things, and this blows my mind to be honest, after your rude response to Sharpm, another member actually took the time to take all the positive aspects of Sharpm's edit and correct it to accomodate all of your complaints about it. Your response:
Eh, it doesn't really help...it barely resembles a human...
This is not just out of line, it's completely incorrect. I don't know what else to say. Two people taking time out of their day to help you out, and they get shot down and their efforts are insulted, IN SPITE OF the fact that they improve upon the original. This is condescending. This is ungrateful.
Sorry, but I don't feel like I need to take in every suggestion that some random person has and apply it to my art.
No? Why on EARTH did you say C+C always welcome.
at the top of the thread then? Was it just to be polite? Thanks for wasting everyone's time!
I won't make my charcater look like a wimpy green alien
Insulting the people that tried to help you again! Not to mention being wrong again. You, sir, are on a role. This takes the cake though! These two quotes come from the VERY SAME POST:
If anyone here is being a douche, sir, it is you.
no soup for you.
Yeah. Adarias is the one being douche. And to top it all off, sharpm makes another edit for you. Don't know why. Wish I could explain why our members are so nice. This one conforms to all of your complaints about previous edits - you don't want a light source, you don't want shading, you don't want correct anatomy, you don't want correct colors. And his edit is STILL helpful. However, YOUR next post is a four paragraph rant about somebody else trying to help you and how you don't NEED their help. Even though their help is ADVICE ON SIDE VIEWS. THE EXACT HELP YOU ASKED FOR. Now comes the bit that is going to get you banned:
Quit being so defensive. I'm not trying to bash you. I just would like someone to post something that sort of resembles an answer to my one and only question. I don't want to get into color counts, hue shifting or simplified poses. This is the pose I'm using, that's final. If you don't want to help with that, then don't expect me to reply with flowers and kisses.
A - You may have a point here, it's not really like our members to be so defensive. However, they are justified, because...
B - What? You called a member's edit a "wimpy green alien". So, yes, you are trying to bash lots of people.
C - If you've been paying attention, there have been 3 edits, 2 addressing lighting, perspective and volume issues (all of which MATTER regardless of POSE), 1 of the edits even includes an edited side pose (which you promptly ignored) and another poster referred you to a widely respected game that features dynamic and exciting side views. So if you want a post that resembles an answer to your "one and only question" open your eyes, son. There's been quite a few.
D - You don't want to get into color counts, hue shifting, or different poses? Then what, pray tell, are you doing here? Seriously?
E - Really, what do you think this forum is for? You asked for help, you got it and then some, and then you pissed on everyone. No one here expects flowers and kisses, but rampant douchebaggery may sometimes incite ire. Perhaps you've read the forum rules? RULES (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2002.0) Rule #1: Don't be an ass.
What makes this a really red-letter thread though, is the following 6 or so posts, where you and bengoshia bitch each other out. That is really top-class, professional behavior, and I hope to see more of that when you both return from your bans in a year.
And the cherry on top:
I've been doing this for quite some years now.
Well that just excuses everything. See you guys in 2009!
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So, to sum it all up.
Xooxer you are banned. Rethink the way you behave and take criticism if you are returning at some point. Also, do not double post.
bengoshia and Adarias, you both get a strike, which unfortunately for you bengoshia turns out to be the 3rd one. While defending the community is always appreciated, jumping and insulting like that isn't the way to go.
And now this thread will be locked.