Pixelation
Critique => 2D & 3D => Topic started by: madPXL on December 18, 2008, 12:35:06 am
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The return of the cube-shaped crocodile!
This time, it will be a "commercial" version of the nindendo ds homebrew game to run on the iPhone.
Currently, I'm trying to do my best on it. I just learned Blender to work on 3D and I'm using cosmigo promotion for all of the textures. Gimp will be used to create mockups.
The first wip, but I'm not entirely happy with the global color. Maybe I will make sand instead of grass, or not...
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/crocomock.png)
some textures:
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/box.bmp) (http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/exitsign.bmp)
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/palmtree.bmp) (http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/wall.bmp)
In need of C&C :)
madpxl.
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it could be my bad taste in colors but i think that there's an important range here (the blue) that you haven't explored in the context of a green map.
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/crocomock.png)(http://xs134.xs.to/xs134/08513/edit797.gif)
Might not be your groove but I think it works better. Also in the future look for what the pink/fusia range might bring you in terms of variety and priority.
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- Green blobs at the top of walls are okay, but green blobs at their base imho don't do it. They show little coherence with the grass and are shaded in the wrong way.
Maybe some pebbles instead would be better, or just a plain grass/wall transition.
- Seconding ndchristie on the need for a better distinction between the grass and the playground elements. I barely played further than level 2 on DS due to the frustrating readability on my low-contrast DS-phat screen.
- Shadows on the ground for sign and palmtrees are nice, but they don't do it with flowers, imho. maybe an alternate shape would be better, or flowers that are more round-shaped. Btw, flowers are a nice opportunity to bring those pinks/fuschia ndchristie was talking of. they are distractingly reusing the same hues as the palmtree, atm.
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Loving this! :) Saw it on your site a while ago, and I've been meaning to try it out on the DS.
I agree, the tree leaves need to be higher contrast, and in general things could do with higher contrast. For example, the walls could be darker and more red so that the crates and signposts show up against them better.
Is the water supposed to be a reflection? It would be nice if it were (using the whole flipped geometry trick), but right now it is just transparent.
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Love the environment! great style on everything.
I know that the whole point is to have everything blocky but i dont think it works on the character.
Your environment reminds me of the sonic series, but even there the character is fully fleshed out.
Maybe the blocky character design works better in a sidescroller type of setting, i just think you're gonna run into problems when you rigg and animate this character.
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I played this on the DS and thought it was great. I thought the controls could use a little tweaking though. Is it going to be point and click or is it going to take advantage of the tilting that the Iphone does. Because i think it would be awesome of you used tilt to control him.
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Just a note... I just kinda dislike the bottom of the tall blocks... it is like it repeats the grass hanging over at the top onto the bottom... everything looks fine, except the grass at the bottom.
As for the color, I like the croc and all the brown stuff, by I don't care much for the greens elsewhere. They should be a little bluer and a little darker. This same palette probably would work great for a sidescroller, I just think for some reason it doesn't quite work here. Maybe the problem is just not enough contrast. You use all these bright colors, and that's not a bad thing, but it just doesn't "pop" the way it would with normal pixel art.
I hope I helped at all. /:
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new render based on some of your critics:
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/croco_mock_c.png)
@ndchristie -> the blue/green for the palmtrees and the crocodile is good point.
@PypeBros -> remove the grass at the bottom doesn't look great :(. It's the same for the flowers' shadows.
@dock -> maybe :) it depends from the engine.
@nelis -> I"ve already rigged the character (from the nds version) and I didn't got any problems with it.
@Jakten -> For the moment I would like to get the same gameplay with the touchscreen. I don't know if we will use the tilt control...
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@PypeBros -> remove the grass at the bottom doesn't look great :(.
I would suggest simply changing the colour of the grass bubbles on the bottom to match the grass. The problem i have with it atm is that it's too dark.
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I appreciate the cartoony oversat palette, but am I the only one getting eyebleed from the value range? Here's a quick photoshop adjustment.
(http://www.locustleaves.com/croc.gif)
Of course I have no way of telling what sort of backlight the DS would apply to your version but if anything it'll make it look even MORE washed out, no?
Otherwise it's lovely and I don't say this a lot about 3d+pixel text art.
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Biggest problem is missing contrast. Pretty much everything is in the low-mid range of values.
Poop edit. Not happy with the walls, too close to the trees and sign now. If I was you I'd try to get a broader range into the textures.
(http://ptoing.net/edit/ccdedit.gif)
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I myself honestly prefer the original over all 3 edit. I don't know why.
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Really? I liked ptoing's the best by far. But the new render from madPXL is good as well, I don't know what the iPhone would do to it. The bulbs on the bottom of the walls are D:
I would get rid of them entirely, and get some vines or something hanging down from the top. Fill up that empty space!
Crocodingus in crackland!
...
*cough*
Nice work so far.
Shrike
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I myself honestly prefer the original over all 3 edit. I don't know why.
I agree. I think it's because the edits seem to dim the scene and take away the sense of an intense sunny day for me - almost like looking through sunglasses. However if it's required to darken it so it looks okay on the console then that's fine i guess.
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omg dude i love your style! its so simple and amazing. try making the color of the leaves brighter than the grass i.e. maybe put more blue into the grass and more yellow into the leaves? the reason why is because the trees are closer to the screen than the grass is, so if the tree leaves were brighter it would give off the illusion that its closer. try it out and see what happens.
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I don't know that color priority for depth is necessarily an important (or even viable) pursuit in a topdown perspective, i can't help but feel it actually creates far too much distance (i gave blue to and darkened the tops of everything to actually flatten the scene which i feel makes it more readable).
The tree definitely needs value separation from the ground because hue won't really be enough and you probably don't want the grass to get darker if your goal is sunny day so i think the leaves need to stay at least a step below the ground.
Juss Sayin :P
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For the moment, I think that I'm done with the "perfectionist" touch:
(http://www.madpxl.com/iphone/croco_mock_4.png)
Thanks again with your replies:)
Next post -> Monkey+Star+Banana!
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Flogging a dead horse, perhaps, I still find that not only is the contrast still too low, but the lighting is also inconsistent.
Shadows indicate that the light source come directly from the top, yet the croc is darker on his left side.
Now, I don't actually care about that since the shadows are so basic and symbolic.
What I do care about, though, is that only the croc has a darker side. Everything else in the game should too, both objects and the landscape.
If you add that, it will also probably bump the contrast all by itself.
Since you learned Blender for this, may I ask if you are planning to learn OpenGL by yourself too?
I'm also an iPhone owner and want to make an app of my own some day, though I will probably not start with an OpenGL one...
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Shadows indicate that the light source come directly from the top, yet the croc is darker on his left side.
I was under the impression that the croc was mirrored, therefore being the same tone on his left side as his right side. Everything else is darker on the sides than the top, although the croc is more contrasted in this respect.
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Just realised that the texture on the box does not make much sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds.
How the wooden planks are put together I mean.
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Just realised that the texture on the box does not make much sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds.
How the wooden planks are put together I mean.
yeah that, particularly with the segmentation on two of the frames, has been making smile from the first post ^^
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I know you're like "done" with this (shame I didnt catch it earlier)...but I think I'll make a comment geared to anyone making anything topdown.
I think it's important that the ground tile contains a lot of eye candy in it's pattern, while the walls are all about adding depth to the equation...and if posible those ground tiles one floor above the playing ground should NOT have the same texture as the ground, since they're not playable.
Here's two aproaches to it from Boktai.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/inmnsion-tiledoor.png) an intricate easy to see pattern
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/sab-bridge.png) and a grass based on a dominant flat color, with variation tiles toward the edges.
I feel like you're in the bad side of a compromise between these two aproaches.
http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/04/28/69878.jpeg http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/04/28/69878.jpeg these two are good examples of intricate patterns made to signify grass, from Animal Crossing....which has a kind of oldschool feel to it's aproach that seems relevant to your style
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not that this adds anything, but boktai has long deserved a comm crit.
animal crossing's style is love in a bucket but it relies on an organic, meandering design scheme as opposed to this clearly cubic one mad's got going.
I myself and most curious to find out the sum of monkey+star+banana.
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boktai had a CC on the old blue pixelation.
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Sorry to deviate a bit but has any of the old threads been saved into an archive or were they all lost?
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it still looks so blended together! O really think you should take ptoing's sugestions into consideration.
Ill try and work on an edit as soon as I can
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Jakten: Everything re-pixelopolis is lost.
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as promised:
(http://www.madpxl.com/wip/crocodingus/croco_mock_5.png)
Since you learned Blender for this, may I ask if you are planning to learn OpenGL by yourself too?
I will not learn OpenGL by myself because I'm working with some independents developers ^__^
Just realised that the texture on the box does not make much sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds.
How the wooden planks are put together I mean.
Edit on the box!
I think it's important that the ground tile contains a lot of eye candy in it's pattern, while the walls are all about adding depth to the equation...and if posible those ground tiles one floor above the playing ground should NOT have the same texture as the ground, since they're not playable.
I will try another ground and wall texture, maybe rocks?
it still looks so blended together! O really think you should take ptoing's sugestions into consideration.
Ill try and work on an edit as soon as I can
I want to keep a sunlight ambient for the game. That's why the colours turns to yellow and looks "so blended" but I'm waiting your edit :)
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YES! A monkey. I want to give it a big hug.
What's your thoughts on the bananas? They look like they could use some plumping up.
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I was about to say the same thing, they could be chubbier. don't worry about them intersecting each other - it goes overlooked.
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A single big banana could be more visually identifiable than the cluster. But you'd have to do something about the yellow, it blends in with the grass.
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I agree, one banana would be better than the bunch. Rather than change the colors, I suggest a 1px outline outside of all the power-ups (star, banana.) Not around the enemies, just power-ups. I like the colors as they are. Also, make the one banana thick n' juicy, they look skimpy atm. Good work, I like it.
Toodles!
Shrike
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I think it's important that the ground tile contains a lot of eye candy in it's pattern, while the walls are all about adding depth to the equation...and if posible those ground tiles one floor above the playing ground should NOT have the same texture as the ground, since they're not playable.
I think that's a wonderfully logical rule. I totally agree. The "fun-factor" in a game is an abstract element, and nobody can clearly define it, or create a failsafe recipe for perfect gameplay fun every time. So, violoating little things like this, like what Conceit mentioned, detract from the game's fun because now your distracted with mundane things like trying to figure out what's out of bounds, etc, creating the opposite of fun - frustration. We've all played games that nickel-and-dime the fun away until it all that's left is annoyance.
I would like to cast my vote on the contrast-eye-bleeding-too-much-brightness issue - Helm has the right idea, yet ptoing's edit is the one I strongly favor.
Btw madPXL, the 3D world you've created is outstanding. Very cool style!
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Just thought I'd post something concerning the mid-day sunshine thing =)
http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/tutorials/light03.htm
Midday sunshine
When the sun is at its highest point in the sky the light is at its whitest and strongest. Contrast is very high, shadows are very dark, so dark in fact that film emulsions generally render them black - although with the naked eye it can still be possible to see some detail in the shadows. For this kind of lighting to be believably recreated it needs to be very strong and high contrast.
The strong light has the effect of bleaching out colours and these appear to be less saturated than at other times of the day. The strong contrast can make it difficult to create appealing images in this sort of light, however in situations where contrast is naturally lower it can work very well. Water for example can really benefit from this strong light, and many images of tropical seas are taken at midday. In other cases the high contrast can be used to creative effect.
The small shadows and strong light aren't particularly revealing of form, and the low saturation is another drawback. Most photographers avoid using strong midday light, however that doesn't mean these conditions are impossible. As with most things going against conventional wisdom can lead to unusual and creative solutions.
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what conciet has quoted is true - generally full sunshine is done with primarily high bright colors, with carefully selected darks - known in design terms as a "high major color chord." This is a generality though and I don't think that the current image leads us to believe that the scene is anything BUT a sunny day.
I find that things depend greatly on the monitor with which i view it. here on a large, nice, new screen, it's damnably burning, when I am home, hardly. on a typical macbook ( i just went around the room looking on my friends'), its washed out and practically invisible but not particularly saturated. I think the only proper way to to put it on the iphone and judge there.
One of the things I tried to do in my edit was to separate - definitively - the croc from the grass. I think that I more or less managed this but that it's not something that's happened in this image - I would strongly urge you to consider either further hue shift towards blue or further value shift towards darker tones.
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Hi madPXL! I've just tried the NDS demo of the game. I love the visual styling and stuff, though to me, the character could have stand out more from the BG. There's a lot of things (banana, grass, signboard, etc) going on in the artwork, but somehow, they weren't shown. Maybe the colors are too close / monotonous? Btw, the top screen for the NDS version could have been the map... it's hard to remember where I am after running around for a while. Good luck with the Iphone version : )
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Hiya, awesome work there. This is rather off-topic, but I'd need some help with Blender. How do you guys get so crisp textures? Do you get the texture filtering off in realtime too? Since I'm really struggling with those at the moment. I'd like to know how you render these, and how to texture the easy way? Your models are rather blocky so I don't think you get any suprises with texturing, but I'm texturing a VW beetle at the moment, and yeah.
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For the current 3D view, you have to turn off the mipmap option from System & OpenGL on the hidden top menu of blender.
For the render, you have to turn off the OSA option.
For the UV mapping, the easy way is to work with the pixel snap option enabled and to make a mapping with square/rectangular UV.