Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Kelmaro on January 21, 2013, 10:54:44 pm
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First would like to say I'm both pretty new to pixel art, and just art also. basically started new years so I may not understand certain terms or words. (and secondly id like to mention I'm not good with punctuation.)
And so my first question is if anyone could give me a more simpler explanation on banding, I've already looked at a couple of guides and I just cant seem to understand what banding is or why its bad.
and my second question is, I was wondering if anyone could give me any tips or information on what I may have done wrong with this character I made, though I'm not totally finished it and ill probably redo this character latter in a somewhat different style cause I don't really like the hair to much right now.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/8104/ramillia.png)
also I was using this as a reference for the character youll notice the face is very similar
http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5282653/il_fullxfull.206233681.jpg
not sure who this is made by though.
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instead of using black lines all through her hair, you should use darker and lighter blues to shadow and highlight her hair.
*bottom picture http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/298/c/c/Pixel_Art_Hair_Tutorial_by_BloodyBlackRoses.jpg (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/298/c/c/Pixel_Art_Hair_Tutorial_by_BloodyBlackRoses.jpg)
the gun could use some improvement as well. guns aren't a gradient of one colour to another, they are made up of lots of individual pieces: primarily the barrel, slider and grip.
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Well I did already try to do something like that, though cant really say if it turned out better or worse.(I think I made the gun/scarf/knife outline a bit to dark.)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/9885/ramilliasimple.png)
And with the gun well I wasn't thinking much when I made it, but my idea was that it was a laser pistol so it didn't need a big barrel, and I'm not to sure what you mean by gradient unless you mean the blue and grey dots on the barrel which the blue were meant to be lights or were you talking about the checkered grip, but yea if it looks like a gradient may need to change it some.
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(http://androidarts.com/tuts/banding.jpg)
However, when doing pixel art, you also need to consider some stuff like... pixel relations in the bands. Sometimes the pixel steps will enhance bands or create little banding staircases. It's best to move the pixels around then and see what creates the smoothest looking gradient out of the bands.
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Ok so if I understand correctly banding will simply cause the colours to look less smooth,(and the outline also possibly?) and instead more choppy so it isn't extremely important then?, but should be something always to look out for if its damaging your pixel art?
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Banding, thick bands, draw attention to the borders between since something change there. It will make the eye think, hey, this area is important. But, often with banding, it's noticeable but serves no function other than confusing the eye. By compressing the bands, the change is over so quick the eye doesn't see the borders. And, you can place the banded edge near a place on the form where the light changes from light to dark naturally because of the form's form.
Super quick edit. I didn't really optimize the pixel placement here and I left some areas rather messy.
(http://androidarts.com/other/reddonna.gif)
Notice the band compression here, on the red dress, particularly the "shelf".
Many minor pixel details were removed. You don't need to render fine details like teeth or nails. Some of the outlines can be simplified so the lines flow better, too. Outlines can have a little color to them if you feel that the black is too heavy. Large shapes like the hair don't need equal colors everywhere, it's okay to go darker and lighter for large areas.
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Arne ninjad me while I was writing, so I'll condense it to just this. As an example, this is what my brain thinks this piece of hair looks like in 3D.
(http://i.imgur.com/68bchO2.png)
And he explains the rest.
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Well I don't know why, but I'm having so much trouble getting my head around this idea of banding, I think I understand what it does now by your explanation but I cant understand how to see it at'least when it comes to pixels.
so here I've tryed to spot out some of the banding if you can tell me if I did or not.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img17/1244/ramillia.gif)
also gotta say yea I think I did try to get to many details since I like your version a'lot more, though the teeth I'm not too sure if I would want to leave them alone like that or not since the purpose of the teeth detail was because she is sapposed to have shark like teeth, and I'm not to sure how else I would detail that though.
and I was wondering is there any method to how you decide to switch out the black outline with another colour outline, or is it just mostly by what looks good or randomly?
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You're outlining some places with quirky anti aliasing mostly.
Hmm. I seem to remember some post, way back, talking about the small-scale banding that you get at the pixel level. There was an image explaining it, showing how putting equally wide pixel lines next to each other creates a jarring appearance (e.g. /// ). I see it on the left side of her red skirt.
Who did that image, was it Helm? Anyone knows?
Another term to throw at you, Kelmaro, is Pillow Shading. It's when you start dark outwards and fill with lighter tones inwards. It's generally considered bad. Here's an example of it:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/mega-lo-mania/screenshots/gameShotId,395638/
It's a sort of human compulsion to work like that though, filling every void with a piece which fits.
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About banding, maybe you're thinking of Cure's tutorial on PJ :
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139322#139322
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Hmm. I seem to remember some post, way back, talking about the small-scale banding that you get at the pixel level. There was an image explaining it, showing how putting equally wide pixel lines next to each other creates a jarring appearance (e.g. /// ). I see it on the left side of her red skirt.
Who did that image, was it Helm? Anyone knows?
Or do you mean this post (http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=5556.msg66232#msg66232)?
I know Helm used that all the time.
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well the guide I was mainly using for banding was the one yrizoud found there, though its only helped me a tiny bit I think, one question though I have from that guide is, are fat pixels or fat lines also considered banding or is it just the staircase banding?
And about pillow shading I do know about it but just forgot about doing normal shading with this character, though thanks for reminding me.
also one thing I think might help me is if I had a picture that told me a couple spots that did have banding on the character
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Yeah, those are good links.
Other pixel artists had to sort of invent the words for various concepts and it's a bit awkward to approach the concepts word-first now. It's a problem with art in general... when others throw terminology around it can sound all artsy fartsy, but once you know the abstract concepts you really enjoy being able to communicate those concepts fast.
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I went on a banding hunt. I probably didn't catch them all, but I was getting nervous that someone else was doing it at the same time -> my work would be wasted.
Sized up to make it easier to point out the bands.
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/Ymedron/bandings_zpsb87018bf.png)
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I probably didn't catch them all, but I was getting nervous that someone else was doing it at the same time -> my work would be wasted.
Not quite, even if they did find the same bands and fixed them; you'd still get practice with spotting them, and more importantly, removing them effectively.
EDIT: Oops, thought you were OP :-[
With that it mind, I think it's good to note that banding is something you should take care of very last when you're working; any changes you make could result in more bands, so the later you fix them, the less work you have to do.
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EDIT: Oops, thought you were OP :-[
No harm done, I was replying to the OP:s plea to have a picture that points out some of the banding. I thought some more practical examples would help them understand the "rules" of banding and apply them themselves?
Though I just noticed I did this on an edited image rather than the original. :'(
Oh well, still useful I hope?
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@Ymedron: Thanks that should help me get a better idea of what equals banding and what doesn't. ;D
@Ashbad: Yea I thought that was the case though thanks for confirming that thought for me.
@Arne: Just want say thanks for taking this much time out to help me.
so I'm probably going to just start fixing and redoing some things with my character, and see if I can spot out the banding and make it better and once I'm close to finished or finished ill post it here to see if I made any progress
and also thanks to everyone else for helping ;D
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so here's a new unfinished version of the character, and while I was editing her I believe I could spot out the banding though still kinda difficult, and its also kinda hard to figure out where to put some pixels when banding occurs but I believe progress has been made. :)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img542/6994/ramillianew.gif)
and I'm not sure if I'm not allowed to do this or not when I read the forum rules,(or if I should even bother)
but here's a sketch of what she's sapposed to look like that I made before this thread
just so some details make a'bit more sense of what they are sapposed to be
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/ramilliasketchcolored.png/
EDIT:just putting a closer to finished version up main thing that isn't finished is the gun and left side of her hair
(http://imageshack.us/a/img10/1244/ramillia.gif)
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You've really nuked that banding. Good job :)
You've also improved the contrast.
I highly recommend keeping a more neutral-midgray BG color rather than the latest white, as this makes it easier to get contrast and color right.
In a hurry right now, here are some other notes before I go:
* Use angles that are not at 45 degrees for organic shapes (her arms)
* teeth are indistinct from skin, and eyes are also. you need some kind of visual elements to separate these.
* teeth still have too much detail to read properly. Vampire style fangs are probably the best you can do and still have the mouth read.
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OK so first to update the main picture and add some others.
Ramillia
(http://imageshack.us/a/img248/4210/ramillia0000.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img585/6091/childramillia0000.png) Child version of her (arms unfinished)
Tuna
(http://imageshack.us/a/img703/8985/tuna0000.png)and another character (pointing arm unfinished)
Ok. now with the arm I don't really understand what the problem is with it in this situation, although I did try doing some other shapes with her arm, I couldn't really get anything I felt was as good.
though in certain situations I can understand why its bad, like with my other character I made there with her arm that's pointing, though that's basically the most unfinished part.
and about the teeth and eyes contrast to the skin, well these characters are basically early(Extremely early) character ideas for a game I would like to make in the future, so in game they would probably be zoomed in about 300% or higher, so the contrast of the teeth and eyes to the skin would be much more easier to see. though the teeth I think could still be a'bit better contrast wise though at the moment the only thing I could think of trying to do is changing her skin colour which ill try latter
and about the teeth detail, well I did try doing some other looks for her mouth and ill probably still keep trying, but with whatever I came up so far she either looked really goofy or it just made even less sense.
but one thing I was wondering when you say "read properly" do you mean the only problem with it is that at first sight you couldn't tell whether she had pointy teeth or something else because if that's the case well in game they would probably have portrait's when talking so at that point I would think it would be understandable what that detail is meant to be.
otherwise I don't quite understand what the problem is with having the teeth detail
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As a small note, the teeth don't actually have to be white. They can be kicked down to a darker gray, or preferably surrounded by darker pixels to point out the edges of the mouth.
Right now, the only way I know that she has her mouth open is because of the red lips and the black spot.
However, don't just draw the lipstick all around the mouth, I have a feeling that's not going to work so well. :o!
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So came back to post my most recent version, and ask weather or not there is still any major problems with this. Mainly would like to know if the arms or teeth are still a problem. The teeth I didn't change much but I made them a bit darker and the skin darker.
Though overall I'm pretty happy with this but any critique I believe would still be good to hear.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/158/ramilliaforum0000.png)
also would like to hear any critique on the gun or hair.