Pixelation
Critique => Pixel Art => Topic started by: Helm on June 08, 2006, 10:09:42 pm
-
so ptoing had this stylistic idea, we persued it in different times. The theory is, only BLACK, RED, GREEN, BLUE allowed. High res sorta is needed for any result to occur. Otherwise, good luck.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/ptoing/lineart12.gif)
this is what I have so far, it's of course, a WIP. Helmet's the most done thing, with flame and all. The far arm is worked on a lot, there's some strange alchemy with colors to behold there, working like a dot matrix printer or something. All this is terribly exciting if you're a CA nerd... like I am, I guess. Otherwise I guess I'm just burning eyes here!
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/ptoing/lineart12small.gif)
50% size auto-optimize palette in pro motion wields this, with the strange automatic gradients. But they give me an idea and I'll do the red thing on the leg, and the towards black gradientation. Anyway, fun fun fun!
Post complaints.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/ptoing/lineart12cga.gif)
Ptoing also CGA'ed the WIP. I love the pink helmet. This 'brick' dithering is a new idea worthy of investigation.
-
Really interesting. I'll leave the outside-the-box thinking to ptoing and helm. The sword reminds me of a balrog's (Lord of the Rings). Excellent anatomy, as is to be expected from you.
-
I am really chuffed about this. This is CA at it's best. Looking forward to seeing the final piece :D
-
wow, that's freaky..
The back arm is bugging me. I think the shoulder melds into the neck too much and perhaps the shoulder could jut out a bit more.
The arm seems more flat compared to the other, probably due to all the colors mixing together which is causeing less contrasted areas. Maybe fix that by haveing a hard light from the fire on it? because at the moment it seems kinda cool compared to the bright neon body. but you say that part is a wip, so maybe it will look better after more work on the body is done.
-
The body will meet the arm in tone-mixing, not the other way around.
-
This is potentially one of the coolest things I've seen in terms of.. stuff.. ever :D The blending that takes place at 50% is truly amazing, and your understanding of colour interaction must be even more amazing than I'd thought to have pulled this off so smoothly.
The only thing that bugs me is the back leg. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the form could be a bit more discernalble. If nothing else, I'd think the giant flaming sword might cast a bit of light on the front. This is assuming, though, that you mean it to be viewed at 50% 'cause that's where the badass colour blending effects present themselves.
Regardless, this is most impressive.
-
haha no, the 50% was posted just because it's interesting. In fact and i agree there's some badass things going on in the 50% one, but pro motion did them! The gradient green toward black and yellow towards red was a strange choice pro motion made on its' own, but one I do intend to mimick on the 100% version. I am not nearly as smart as I am lucky!
-
i can think of about one word to describe this.
amazing.
id like to comment on something, im just speachless, i love it.
-
DAmn helm, this is freaking...
Superfantabulous.
-
I absolutely, unconditionally love it. Good game, sir.
Make sure the final coloring will follow either the style used on the body or on the right arm (the one on the arm is more interesting, though totally different than the other, incompatible styles, if i may). I like the anatomy, but the bicep/tricep area all the way down to the elbow on the left arm is too big/thick, while the muscles are undefined, and the curvature of the leg in the back makes it look almost broken. I could also whine about the dirtyness of some of the lineweights, but that'd just be ghey. But wip and all, maybe you were going to adress this already.
-
how can your arms be "too thick?"
-
(http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1514/lineart166xq.gif)
more work. more work. About halfway done. Now the boring stuff starts. Detail and tweaking all over, for only a 5% conscious difference at viewing. But eh, it's pixel art after all.
-
im guessing he focuses on the upper body a tad bit more than the lower ? :P
-
I think the shoulder melds into the neck too much and perhaps the shoulder could jut out a bit more.
I do this CONSTANTLY, heh. Annoyed by this error. I already outed it a bit, but I'll probably do it more. Realistically, it would require a reposition of the chest too, but eh.
(the one on the arm is more interesting, though totally different than the other, incompatible styles, if i may)
not so incompatible. See everything coming halfway slowly?
but the bicep/tricep area all the way down to the elbow on the left arm is too big/thick, while the muscles are undefined, and the curvature of the leg in the back makes it look almost broken.
both good points. I'll work on the arms more, probably tighten them up a bit. Leg already touched to adress the point. Work?
im guessing he focuses on the upper body a tad bit more than the lower ?
You mean as if he worked out or something? This isn't really warrior physique at all to be frank. People who train for battle arrive at less defined muscle tone than the superhero anatomy/bodybuilder paradigm have it, since it's muscle to work not to show but I'm not trying to be uber-realistic here anyway. The legs are less worked than the chest and arms, yes. Mostly a personal subconscious thing since I find uber-swollen upper legs repulsive.
Thanks everybody for comments and critique!
-
This is really, really, cool. I almost feel like giving it a shot, though I've never pixelled something so big, much less something so crazy.
Not sure why you "squared off" some parts of it thoug, like by his ribcage. Or are those parts you're not done with?
-
I'm not officially done with anything until I'm done with everything, but I don't see what you mean exactly.
If you try this alchemy at small resolutions you will get hurt. This is basically dither city. Too sparse a grid and all you have is abstracted pixels.
-
nice work helm, look forward to seeing the final product :)
-
Ptoing also CGA'ed the WIP. I love the pink helmet. This 'brick' dithering is a new idea worthy of investigation.
eh. I've fooled with it in the past... sortof. nothing great by me. (http://setz.panicus.org/scanlines4.PNG)
As for the WIP itself, it's coming along pretty awesome, reminds me of what a heat seeking missle would look like, I'm not liking the scrawny legs in comparison to the more defined upper body, it seems like he would be shaking trying to hold himself up, but you've already addressed that.
-
what a heat seeking missle would look like
oh man, that's a very good description, heh. Extra points! I was pixelling and thinking 'hehe the flames are like VHS VIDEO BURNNN' and subconsciously I was doing inverted heat patterns (dark red in flame, instead of ouside) and it all seemed pleasing without understanding exactly why. And not what you said puts it a bit in perspective. This has nice ramifications for color theory where the hotter bits are darker than the colder bits, regardless of external lightsourcing. Will try to tie it off coherently!
EDIT: also, I find this variation pleasing. PERHAPS to the degree that this will become the official iteration to finish. Only R G B
(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3547/lineart177ep.gif)
-
People who train for battle arrive at less defined muscle tone than the superhero anatomy/bodybuilder paradigm have it, since it's muscle to work not to show but I'm not trying to be uber-realistic here anyway.
I wouldn't say that your portrayal is unrealistic at all. Muscular definiton has to do with body fat percentage (which involves diet, genetics, and hydration more than actual weightlifting), and I don't see how someone who trains for battle couldn't look like the Greek in your drawing. In fact, modern bodybuilding was inspired by the Grecian ideal of a perfect physique. When Eugen Sandow created bodybuilding contests, he chose the winner based on how closely his proportions matched those of ancient Greek statues.
-
EDIT: also, I find this variation pleasing. PERHAPS to the degree that this will become the official iteration to finish. Only R G B
Please, no. It looks cool, but not that cool.
Well, the legs have already been mentioned and spoken about, but I really think they're skinny to the point of lack of muscle. My legs are skinny (as is the rest of me) and I've got more meat than that. The distant leg also looks to fat in comparison.
-
Ancient greek warriors looked nothing like the idealized portrayals of said statues. Muscle develops quite differently if you're building it for tone and to show, which has to do with training all muscle groups in certain ways, getting a very specific diet etc, whereas it develops differently through repetitive battle excersise (which strains only some muscle groups, and some more than others) eating what you find, and generally rough livin', where even deformations occur through malpractise. Spartans weren't 'oh am I so pretty?'. This jerk (http://www.geocities.com/jayhorn5/henry-pics/henry-muscles.jpg) isn't what happens to people who kill to live.
and yeah, I'll finish it proper and then can easily do the conversion to RGB then.
-
My legs are skinny (as is the rest of me) and I've got more meat than that.
After some thought, I'll rephrase: My legs are lean, as is the rest of me, and I've got more meat than that.
Hehe, don't want to drive the ladies away with the thought of me being a frail nerd. I'm a manly nerd.
-
i would think the legs would be just as beafy as the upper body though, seeing as how they would definitely be walking a great deal and be doing lots of foot work. correct me if im wrong though as i dont know anything about stuff like this :P
got some other comments but i think they are just adressing the WIPness of it so ill save those for later.
-
reminds me of what iST was doing a while ago http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp?id=279&sec=icons&pg=6 cept whay more old school and intense.
The helm would surely reflect the red lightsource more than the thigh but i don't think it should :P
The muscles in the shoulders/arms are disproportionate to the rest of the body to the point that it appears he has a bad hunch but then anatomy is largely personal preference.
I'm not really a fan of his left thigh either. sometimes you have to over look the small things and enjoy the piece and these colours make for a very enjoyable peice albiet a little hard to look at for long periods of time.
-
i always thought of warriors as becoming very tough and stringy instead of really big, mostly because agility under armor is so important and a large body builder cant move and provides a bigger target. This guy seems to fit the part nicely except for the torso seems a bit too skinny to have spent a life supporting those arms. larger, tougher arms = larger, tougher upper body. neck looks good though as far as supporting a helmet which most people forget about when drawing warriors, and the legs seem to have strenth without useless bulk. to me, he looks like a well-trained and fed fighter ('cause he cant have muscles that tough without food to make them)
-
Ancient greek warriors looked nothing like the idealized portrayals of said statues. Muscle develops quite differently if you're building it for tone and to show, which has to do with training all muscle groups in certain ways, getting a very specific diet etc, whereas it develops differently through repetitive battle excersise (which strains only some muscle groups, and some more than others) eating what you find, and generally rough livin', where even deformations occur through malpractise. Spartans weren't 'oh am I so pretty?'. This jerk (http://www.geocities.com/jayhorn5/henry-pics/henry-muscles.jpg) isn't what happens to people who kill to live.
and yeah, I'll finish it proper and then can easily do the conversion to RGB then.
It seems as though all muscle builder pictures have pasted on heads. Just very unnatural looking.
The CA has already roasted my mind, I'm appreciative.
-
Ancient greek warriors looked nothing like the idealized portrayals of said statues.
I've never met any ancient Greek warriors. I'm basing my observations on Greek art (look at the terracotta amphora paintings) and what I know about fitness.
Muscle develops quite differently if you're building it for tone and to show, which has to do with training all muscle groups in certain ways, getting a very specific diet etc, whereas it develops differently through repetitive battle excersise (which strains only some muscle groups, and some more than others) eating what you find, and generally rough livin', where even deformations occur through malpractise. Spartans weren't 'oh am I so pretty?'. This jerk (http://www.geocities.com/jayhorn5/henry-pics/henry-muscles.jpg) isn't what happens to people who kill to live.
Some misconceptions here. When muscles are under stress, they tend to get micro-tears in their fiber. The body reacts by re-building them stronger. Building muscle for defintion is a common misconception. Muscle can do one of three things: get larger, get smaller, or stay the same size. Moving heavier weight around will help them build bigger and faster, but it won't change anything other than size. The shape relates to individual genetics and can't be altered short of surgery.
Bodybuilders definitely don't work all the muscle groups equally (they keep the abs smaller than say powerlifters would, and many do little ab work at all). It's not important for them to balanced their bodies like weightlifters, since they're not the ones breaking records. The cardio involved with "battle exercises" and marching with equipment would work the full body, but wouldn't isolate the groups specifically.
Definition has everything to do with diet and very little to do with working out. A low calorie, low fat diet will produce a much leaner, stringier look. The chunky weightlifter (not bodybuilder) type relies on a high protein, calorie rich diet (5-7 meals/day plus) and keeps himself very well hydrated. Bodybuilding combines the two, as the man will "bulk" until several months before a comeptition, when he will began "cutting", a process that involves a drastic change in diet. His exercise shifts to focus on cardio, and he will typically lose 30-50 pounds in these several months. Before the competition itself, he drops his water weight, also. On the day of the competition he is dehydrated man with large muscle, and very little fat.
I'd conclude that because of the exercise and meager diet, Greek soldiers would be lean and defined, with strong legs (climbing over that rocky terrain) but a small, wiry physique.
-
In other words, that RGB guy is pretty close to being Greekesque, then? Aside from the obviously flexing biceps, he isn't very bulky at all. Just well defined.
Oh, and Helm, I don't need to actually say anything useful about this brain-asploding piece of insanity, do I?
Good.
Now finish it.
-
wow helm, you've went and done it. you two came up with a unique idea, a whole new way to think of pixelart, Helm put it in practice, this is the proof that it is still an evolving art =)
still, that's not for me, not right now anyway :p
I second the idea of the pure RGB pic, if life was coherent RPG pixelart would become a fad
-
I think maybe what helm and adarias were trying to get at is that while muscles can only become larger or smaller, you CAN focus on specific muscles (which change the shape of your body) and more importantly you can also increase muscle strength WITHOUT increasing muscle size. Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength. How many of these bodybuilders could actually compete with the relatively flabby-looking atheletes who dominate the olympics and "world's strongest man" competitions?
EDIT - btw Helm this looks friggin sweet - very nice anatomy and the color mixing is stellar, very inpsirational
-
This guy seems to fit the part nicely except for the torso seems a bit too skinny to have spent a life supporting those arms. larger, tougher arms = larger, tougher upper body.
I've decided to tone down the arms instead of tone the legs up (although I'll probably add a pixel or two to the outer leg too). And define the muscle groups just a tad more of the outer arm.
The helm would surely reflect the red lightsource more than the thigh but i don't think it should
Exactly. A case of unrealistic effect that is too interesting to really 'fix'. It's fine.
I've never met any ancient Greek warriors. I'm basing my observations on Greek art (look at the terracotta amphora paintings) and what I know about fitness.
Anthropologic analysis of data we have from the period concur with me. First of all, the greeks were short, short-lived people with quite more darkened skin than they indoeuropean descent would suggest and blah blah blah. But this side of the conversation has gone on too much since I'm not really pretending my Spartan is really accurate to begin with. The arms are huge in length, to begin with. The shoulders are awfully overtoned. I should have made a stocky oily hairy brown man if I wanted to make a Spartan for real. This is okay for iconic representation without going overboard in either the gross fascist man of steel ideal or the classical contrapost-heavy ideal (which I personally like but find boring). I'm in a stupid middle ground, and it's fine.
wow helm, you've went and done it. you two came up with a unique idea,
Ptoing mostly.
Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength.
quoted for truth.
Update and probably final, tonight.
-
hmm, i painted in some red reflections of the sword on his helm, leaving the areas i thought wouildnt be hit as much by the light, and the grouping of the red and blue dithering only makes it look cooler in my eyes.
-
Love it, Helm!
One thing that I'm wondering about is his ass. I don't have any specific expertise in the anatomy area - although I did try checking myself out in a mirror for this ::) - but that area seems just a bit too flat. Where are the bum pads?
Anyways, your call on that, just figured I would try mentioning it
Other than that - and something about the leg, but I'll wait for your next version to see if the leg isn't still WIP - I love this. Both the blue and black versions are awesome, each bringing their own interesting feel to the piece. Blue is neat in how it brings the piece together, but black is great in how it brings out your colours. I also find black is much more interesting of the two as a secondary(or is it ambient) light source.
-
I think maybe what helm and adarias were trying to get at is that while muscles can only become larger or smaller, you CAN focus on specific muscles (which change the shape of your body) and more importantly you can also increase muscle strength WITHOUT increasing muscle size.
Muscles groups do not work independently of each other. A stronger back will give you an edge when you work chest. Building stabilizing muscles will make exercises with primary muscle groups easier. It's near impossible to build a good chest without working your legs (since working your largest muscle group, quadriceps, is the fastest way to stimulate your body's testosterone production). Your last statement runs contrary to every kinesiology study I've read. I would like to know how you reached that conclusion... If you're thinking about body weight exercises or high rep-low weight, that's a ratio issue, and those do increase muscle mass (just not very quickly or effeciently).
Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength. How many of these bodybuilders could actually compete with the relatively flabby-looking atheletes who dominate the olympics and "world's strongest man" competitions?
They don't compete because they are different sports. Gymnastics involves building muscles, too, but those athletes don't compete in these sports either. The difference between the two are akin to the difference between Kada karate (form) demonstration and karate match. The athlete needs a solid foundation in karate for both endeavors, and there is a little crossover between the two, but the goals are very different. Likewise, bodybuilding pits the athletes against a hypothetical visual ideal, while weightlifting pits them against each other using weight as a judge.
Let me break this down.
Bodybuilders - the goal is a shredded, muscular look (super low body fat). Because the competitions are more like dog shows and less like an athletic tournament, they dehydrate themselves for their routine (to further muscular definition). In the off-season, these men are typically 30-50 pounds heavier, and put up a great deal of weight to increase their muscle mass. I will repeat this because it refutes your point: a bodybuilder must be strong to increase his size.
Here is an example:
Nasser El Sonbaty is a pro bodybuilder, and in this picture he is holding 380 pounds. The muscle is not all show, trust me, that's a good deal of weight.
http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/nasser_sonbaty/sonbaty12.jpg
Weightlifters/World Strongest Man - the end goal is raw strength, the ability to move heavy weights or hold the second digit of a TUT. They are not awarded points for their physique. For these rigourous physical trials, they MUST keep hydrated and often will rely on higher fat percentages to give themselves an edge when dealing with heavier weights. (For example if there are two men of equal strength but one weighs 50 pounds more, the heavier one will have an easier time pushing over a 450 pound column).
Mariusz Pudzianowski has won the World's Strongest Man competition three times.
http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/2623/gallery131296260ed.jpg (on the left)
http://www.pudzian.pl/foto/235.jpg (on the right)
He weighs a bit more than Nasser, but is much stronger (record bench is at 606 lb) though less cut. However, they are both strong men, no matter how much you claim that muscle can be for show.
This is the biggest thread hijack I've ever contributed to. To increase my post's relevance: I think the RGB experiment is a great idea for the aesthetic. Without the black, it reminds me of a relief sculpture, with shapes protruding from the visual plane.
Helm: I agreed with the descisions you made regarding the look of your character. The anatomy is another issue altogether, something I did not address.
-
I will take the approach of someone completely unrelated to art who finds this piece on the internet.
Once I got past the overload of brightness, I found myself liking it. The colors work together well and the type of dithering is nice.
-
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1641/spartan4op.gif)
quasi-final. This is when 'wip' is no longer an excuse. Adressed a lot of critique, both from here and from private sessions with Ptoing. I thank you all. Pixelopolis is the only place on the internet that I know of that does this sort of thing consistently.
Big Brother, let's just say that regardless of the discussion, this http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/2623/gallery131296260ed.jpg person, and his type, sicken me.
-
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8973/spartan4op8fm.gif)
These are the squarey parts I was talking about. It seems to not occur enough to be a stylistic thing.
-
hey helm not sure if this is intentional or not but the blue kind of particle effect in his left (our right) armpit kinda makes it look like his armpit is webbed. a small edit there to make the ribcage look like it goes up toward his back more than out toward his arm would be great!
-
On the far arm, either the upper part looks too faded or the forearm looks too vibrant. Either way, the change is too abrupt.
-
(http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/9871/spartan29ss.gif)
fixed and fixed
and cga
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5594/spartan2cga4jc.gif)
-
That CGA version is perfect.
-
so glad you pushed the values, that was the one thing that was lacking before. beautiful work. any chance of doing a project in it, or is this just for something new in art?
i wonder what would happen if you used widepixels.....
-
i wonder what would happen if you used widepixels.....
i also wondered. heres a quick and dirty widepixel version
(http://imagehost.ensellitis.com/images/1108945837.gif)
and cga
(http://imagehost.ensellitis.com/images/204815312.gif)
interesting...
-
There's not much I can say. I'm just amazed at all your work, Helm. The way you drew the anatomy on this, it reminds me a lot of the Metal Gear concepts.
K.I.C.K. A.S.S.
-
Came out awesome!
There is some jaggyness going on on the near leg, i think you should have the diagonal outlines always end in blue not in red, makes it smoother.
-
(http://www.locustleaves.com/spartan1x.JPG)
Ironshins took TV pictures of it. How cool is that?
-
Very nice. However, i think you may be hindering the piece from reaching it's full potential by not giving it a background (more than just "a background", but a universe in which to exist).
You're probably a bit tired of it by now, but don't discard that idea just yet.
-
The original idea I had were primordial mists around the character as he returns from the underworld, but I think it's iconic as it is and doesn't need overworking. Not everything needs to be painted in for this one, it's not a widescreen special fx shot in a movie, let a lot happen without them being visual
either that or I'm just bored!
-
I prefer the sincere "I'm bored" explanation than the all the other stuff, which just seems like a cop-out, baby. Was hoping to convey the "full potential" notion to you, but i guess it didn't make it.
Edit: i appologise if that seems rude. I just look at all that black around him, and feel empty inside. I feel this could be much, much better with a proper "techniquely innovating, broodingly mood" environment.
-
I don't think it's rude, no worries. I lean towards the 'bored! lol!' explanation myself, really.
-
That picture of it on a TV is totally wicked! I love it.
-
this is almost like pixel-pointillism. the tv shot is awesome
-
i tihnk a background would be nice to see, but at the same time its not really necessary especially for an experimental piece like this.
TV shot is teh pwnage, only problem is that you could get the same image on a tv with straight CG in an hour's work. the beauty of this lies in its pixels.
-
Amazing! I like the non-cga one most myself.
-
Really awesome and inspiring. The black, green, red, blue version is deff the best in my eyes - although i still like the CGA one, as a calmer substitute. The TV shot also looks pretty neato.
-
Fantastic, the work behind that pic makes my briain burn. Pic from the TV just looks amazing.
-
That 'tv' pic finally loaded for me... gnarly dood o_O!
-
damn it man, that's why I wish there was a REAL TV filter for displaying computer graphics unlike that shoddy one available on everyone's emulator and their brother's.
any clue what it is about TVs that make pixels come so alive?
-
Conceit, as far as TVs go, it has to do with the blurring that occurs since color are projected through/by tubes (I'd have to ask my father about the technicalities, he repaired them back in the day). The colors meld...since they aren't quite as focused when compared to a digital monitor. You can't 'emulate' the effect directly unless you used an extremely high res monitor and setup some weird blending algorithims (and stretched the image).... even then it probably wouldn't look right.
-
I'm not thinking of something that replicates the same phenomenom so exactly, just something that can aproximatedly do the same kind of blur.
you know, just some filter you can run pixelart trough so it spits something in 2X and it looks like Ironshin's TV shot.
BTW, I tried my hand at a CMYK ver.....
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/spartan29cmyk.gif) I reversed the brightness of the two brightest shades, but I think this version benefits more of the pallete this way
-
some interesting color mixing in the high register there and a good test, but any format that isn't pretty primitive (like actual CGA, 170's and zeros, or my original palette of 256's and zeros) pretty much goes against what I was trying to do on this one.
-
I just went with the opposite pallete, the one that is negative instead of positive.
-
Just want to say that this looks awesome! I love how you use different patterns to twist and bend the colors into looking this cool. You haven't thought about making a tutorial about this kind of advanced dithering?
Perhaps you have some links to websites that are intresting if you wish to learn more about this kind of technique?