AuthorTopic: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)  (Read 51876 times)

Offline AdamTierney

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WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

on: March 01, 2006, 08:50:22 am
Hey guys,

The developer I work for (WayForward Technologies, creators of Shantae & Sigma Star Saga) is always on the lookout for new talent. Our last two contests (animation and pixelling) went over incredibly well. So we're going to do at least one more contest if the mods here don't mind. If everything looks fine, maybe one of the mods can move this topic to the challenges section. Our last contest carried a $250 prize. But I always feel guilty completely dissing whoever's in second place. So this time we're going to award first place $150, second place $100 and third place $50. Sound good? This contest focuses on that other side of game pixelling  - background tiling.

Below is a map from Double Dragon II on NES.



And here is a random photo of a city street.



To enter this contest, the artist has to complete only one task:

Create a background in the same perspective as the Double Dragon map above, adapting elements, color themes and details from the above photo (basically, making a game background of the scene in that photo). Your final image must be 240 pixels wide by 160 pixels tall (GBA res). You will be tiling in 16x16 squares (so 10 tiles tall by 15 tiles wide). Each tile can have a maximum of 15 colors in it (this is one 'pallette row'). The scene can have a maximum of 10 different pallette rows across all tiles. A GBA screen has 150 tiles in it (10x15). Your scene can use a MAXIMUM of 40 unique tiles. You can flip any of these tiles horizontally and it won't count as an extra tile (although a vertical flip will). If any of this is violated, you cannot place in the contest. If I notice any errors, I'll try to point them out so you have time to fix them. (This is all pretty complicated, so please post questions below, although we're not going to explain the basics of what tiling is here. This contest is for the familiar).

The winning entry will be the background that looks impressive visually, showcases strong pixelling ability, pulls essential detail from the photo and creates the most fully-realized game world.


Additional rules:

1) No animation whatsoever is allowed (single-frame only).

2) All pieces of art must be posted in this thread and be accessible (no dead links) for consideration. You can post the file in any web-displayable image (gif preferred). If it doesn't show up for the judges, the art won't be considered.
3) No previously-created art may be used in this contest.
4) Multiple entries are allowed. If you end up pixelling multiple backgrounds, we'll consider all of them.

So that's it in a nutshell. Create a background, post it below, best three entries with regard to the rules above and according to WF's directors win the cash. Post below and feel free to comment on everyone else's posts.

Deadline:

The deadline will be in a little over 2 weeks (March 17th). No extensions on this one (I feel like when we do that, we're punishing those who rushed to get their entry in on time).

Prize:

The winner will receive $150. Second place will receive $100 and third place will receive $50.

FAQ:
(I'll add to this as people post below)

1) Can we enter if we're under age? Of course. Again, just a contest. Unless you know of a specific reason why you might not be allowed to enter, the contest is open to everyone.
2) Can I post my sprite entries on my website? Of course. Post away.
3) Can mods submit? Of course. The contest is open to everyone except WayForward employees.
4) Can we submit collabs? Nope, sorry. One artist per entry.
5) Can I put sprites and HUD over my background to show how it would work? Yes, however you must have a 'naked' image too, with just the background by itself. Failure to supply this will result in non-consideration.
6) Can we flip tiles? Yup, as newly stated above, you can horitonally flip tiles without adding to your tile count. A vertical flip will add a new tile to the total, though.
7) So we're keeping the same details and perspective as the photo? No no no. I mean, you can, but you're meant to be looking at the photo mainly for some key details (not everything) and colors. I'd reccommend making the perspective the same as the Double Dragon maps. Anything else and you're gonna run out of tiles fast.

- Adam
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 05:56:29 am by AdamTierney »

Offline Faceless

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #1 on: March 01, 2006, 09:36:16 am
Are we allowed to use only one projection angle, or must we provide a mockup with both angles?

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Offline Helm

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #2 on: March 01, 2006, 09:53:33 am
You're talking about the fake perspective, right? Yeah, that would serve to be cleaned up because the double dragon example is akward. all-left or all-right would be better, I think. However, emulating the broken style of Double Dragon would be a neat challenge.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #3 on: March 01, 2006, 11:36:24 am
Yes

Offline AlexHW

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #4 on: March 01, 2006, 06:36:05 pm
I've got a question,
Is there tile flipping(ie: can you flip a tile vertically or horizontally and not have it count as a unique tile?).

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #5 on: March 01, 2006, 09:33:24 pm
My finished entry:

(40 tiles, 14 colours overall)
and the proccess animation:

 :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:33:09 am by .TakaM »
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #6 on: March 01, 2006, 10:53:07 pm
"Are we allowed to use only one projection angle, or must we provide a mockup with both angles?"

Entirely up to you. You're only limited by what I said in the rules. Although I think the obvious method would be to pick one perspective.

"You're talking about the fake perspective, right? Yeah, that would serve to be cleaned up because the double dragon example is akward. all-left or all-right would be better, I think. However, emulating the broken style of Double Dragon would be a neat challenge."

All left, all right or a combination of both would be fine.

"Is there tile flipping(ie: can you flip a tile vertically or horizontally and not have it count as a unique tile?)."

Excellent question! I'll clarify this in the rules. A horizontally-flipped tile does not count as a new tile. However, a vertically flipped one does. So horizontally flip all you want.

- Adam
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 10:57:36 pm by AdamTierney »

Offline flaber

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #7 on: March 01, 2006, 11:05:28 pm
Each tile can have a maximum of 15 colors in it (this is one 'pallette row'). The scene can have a maximum of 10 different pallette rows across all tiles.

mmmk. so just a small question. sorry if its obviouse.
so, every tile can have15colours, but you can have 10 different sets of 15??
Would that mean you are allowed 150 colours overall for the whole image?
not exactly sure on what a pallete row is.

oh. and what about layers. havent thought about design yet.. but incase I do.
are we allowed to overlap tiles?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 11:15:53 pm by flaber »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #8 on: March 02, 2006, 12:38:55 am
this is totally awesome. I usually blow at tiling but I'm insane so I'm gonna give this a try too
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 12:41:54 am by Camus »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #9 on: March 02, 2006, 03:37:07 am
[edit]see my first post[/edit]
what Ive made so far.. I havent made anything in such a warped style before.. so my approach is to get it done in a simple way first, and then i'll cean it up a hell of a lot..

Ive also moved a few things around as its quite hard to convert this street to 40 tiles and the perspective
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:34:07 am by .TakaM »
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #10 on: March 02, 2006, 05:10:07 am
just wondering if you'd like to reconsider the tile count limit
[edit]see my first post[/edit]
Ive already made about half the image and its 53 tiles (not counting the obviously unfinished tiles).. when you said 40 tiles, and theres 150 tiles in the screen overall i thought it sounded a bit low, especially for such a warped perspective and a street with so many different details..

i could lower my tile count and mirror a lot of tiles but it wouldnt look much like the photo :-\
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:34:24 am by .TakaM »
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 05:44:57 am
40 is kind of intentionally low to really showcase the ingenuity of the artist. Remember, you don't need to keep the same perspective as the photo. In fact it would probably be easier (and less tile-intensive) to do it like the Double Dragon reference, with the street going left/right on the screen instead of back and buildings facing the viewer. But again, all this is up to the individual artist.

"when you said 40 tiles, and theres 150 tiles in the screen overall i thought it sounded a bit low, especially for such a warped perspective and a street with so many different details."

I definitely don't expect people to cram in everything that's in the photo. Just pick some key details, predominant color themes, etc. There's meant to be a lot of choice on this one.

- Adam
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 05:48:38 am by AdamTierney »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #12 on: March 02, 2006, 06:10:56 am
ok, are we allowed to have tiles that have transparency? so when i place a tile over a series of different tiles it doesnt count as a new one each time?
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #13 on: March 02, 2006, 06:20:56 am
No transparency on this one.

- Adam

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #14 on: March 02, 2006, 06:40:59 am
still not finished
[edit]see my first post[/edit]
37 tiles... not looking as bad as I was expecting
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:34:53 am by .TakaM »
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #15 on: March 02, 2006, 07:10:46 am
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 07:19:19 am by Camus »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #16 on: March 02, 2006, 07:36:41 am
finished I believe
[edit]see my first post[/edit]
40 tiles exactly.. I might come back to this every few days to touch it up.. but Im quite happy with it at the moment
and the progress animation
[edit]see my first post[/edit]
I like making these things now :p

:D

edit-
do you need a version with all the tiles seperated?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:35:10 am by .TakaM »
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #17 on: March 02, 2006, 09:02:20 am
Wow, nice entry .TakaM, very quick progression too. The only critique I have would be the colors being a bit too saturated. The buildings in the back stand out more than the two buildings in the front. I think that doesn't make too much sense, because the player would want to go there (or will -think- he can). So you might want to change that!
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #18 on: March 02, 2006, 09:14:56 am
thanks, it wasnt really that quick a progression as I was at home all day today with nothing to do :P
thanks for the critique, when i update it I'll change a few things round ;)
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #19 on: March 02, 2006, 10:05:05 am
"do you need a version with all the tiles seperated?"

Wouldn't hurt, but I won't require it. I have a program I can pull them into that will count tiles for final judging.

- Adam

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 10:24:21 am
ok, I still have the seperated version, I thought it might be a little easier if i pointed out which tiles were flipped horizontally, just incase your program doesnt pick it up automatically
[edit]see third page[/edit](excluding the arrow sign above the doorway)
also, speaking of this program, would you mind giving me a link to download it? all Ive ever had is a homemade detiler, its a bit clunky but gets the job.. unfortunately a .dll has gone missing and it wont run anymore.. so yeah, it would help me a lot.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:30:10 am by .TakaM »
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 11:01:58 am
"also, speaking of this program, would you mind giving me a link to download it?"

Sorry, it's one of WayForward's proprietary programs. ;)

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 11:12:23 am
i was hoping that wouldnt be the case lol.. oh well thanks anywasy :P
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 06:32:50 pm
TakaM, good job, I'd suggest you lose the broken perspective after all, though. This has a huge De chirco thing going, paranoiac perspective, the stuff of nightmares. Whereas a very fitting effect in some cases, I think this would make me cry in a fighting game. Psychological violence.

The thing is, double dragon gets away with it because the screendumps Adam posted are from a lot of screens connected. You never get both perspectives in the same view in the game because it runs at 320x240 or something, whereas the screendump is 3 screens x 6 screens or something (eyeballing). It's unfair to have to do the double perspective in the tiny GBA resolution.

 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 06:34:58 pm by Helm »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #24 on: March 02, 2006, 07:07:13 pm
The thing is, double dragon gets away with it because the screendumps Adam posted are from a lot of screens connected. You never get both perspectives in the same view in the game because it runs at 320x240 or something, whereas the screendump is 3 screens x 6 screens or something (eyeballing). It's unfair to have to do the double perspective in the tiny GBA resolution.

That's pretty much whats been preventing me from making a start.  It's clear on the Double Dragon shot that theres a big screen sized gap between the severe angle change.

I can't quite figure how to begin on this.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #25 on: March 02, 2006, 07:21:50 pm
Go with one perspective, as a sane man would.

Adam, do we have priority tiles and tile offsetting? Can I move a tile from it's 'tiled' position to somewhere else theoretically via very easy GBA hacks, and if I can, shouldn't there be some rules for what takes priority (what is drawn over what) over what tile? This partains to issues with trasparency too, which I think the art should have.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 07:35:32 pm
Sounds interesting, but i prolly wont have time to enter.

What's with the 16x16 tiles? GBA has 8x8 tiles natively and i am pretty sure you can flip horizontally and vertically and it's still the same tile, no matter how you flip it (noflip / x / y / x,y = same tile). You can not rotate tho. and why only 10 palettes and not the full 16? I guess reserve for hud or something?

Could you clarify?

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #27 on: March 02, 2006, 08:05:04 pm
Hey guys, I'm working on a C++ tool called 'mockup2tile'. I hope I'll be able to finish it on time. Could be useful to some of you competing.
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #28 on: March 02, 2006, 08:45:50 pm
I notice in the photo that there is a yellow line along the right curb. Was this street cut in half at some point or something.

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #29 on: March 02, 2006, 09:01:21 pm
"What's with the 16x16 tiles? GBA has 8x8 tiles natively and i am pretty sure you can flip horizontally and vertically and it's still the same tile, no matter how you flip it (noflip / x / y / x,y = same tile). You can not rotate tho. and why only 10 palettes and not the full 16? I guess reserve for hud or something? Could you clarify?"

When we build levels, we do so with 8x8 tiles but 16x16 matrixes. Level building is done in 16x16's not 8x8s. Horizontal flips do not eat up additional tiles, but vertical do - that's GBA. As for the 10 pallette rows, that's just the number I decided on.

"It's unfair to have to do the double perspective in the tiny GBA resolution."

I'd certainly recommend choosing one. But that's entirely up to each artist.

"Adam, do we have priority tiles and tile offsetting? Can I move a tile from it's 'tiled' position to somewhere else theoretically via very easy GBA hacks, and if I can, shouldn't there be some rules for what takes priority (what is drawn over what) over what tile? This partains to issues with trasparency too, which I think the art should have."

1 layer, no transparency. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by offsetting. If you mean shifting the tiles 8 pixels over in a direction, no, that will create new tiles. Think onyl in 16x16s on this one. We're keeping this simple. On GBA you can have multiple layers and up to 2048 tiles across 3 layers. But the more restrictions we place here, the less time it takes each entrant and the more conservative and creative everyone's forced to be. This contest isn't meant to properly emulate the GBA process.

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #30 on: March 02, 2006, 09:38:56 pm
Check.



40 tiles, 23 colours all in all... if there's any errors they might be in tile placement (I don't snap to grid much, so something might be a bit misaligned, I hope not though).. there's some horisontal mirroring, I don't think I'm breaking any rules... the colours are 5,5,5 rgb bits, like in the real GBA.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 10:54:31 pm by Helm »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #31 on: March 02, 2006, 11:33:30 pm
"What's with the 16x16 tiles? GBA has 8x8 tiles natively and i am pretty sure you can flip horizontally and vertically and it's still the same tile, no matter how you flip it (noflip / x / y / x,y = same tile). You can not rotate tho. and why only 10 palettes and not the full 16? I guess reserve for hud or something? Could you clarify?"

When we build levels, we do so with 8x8 tiles but 16x16 matrixes. Level building is done in 16x16's not 8x8s. Horizontal flips do not eat up additional tiles, but vertical do - that's GBA. As for the 10 pallette rows, that's just the number I decided on.

I just checked the AGB documents (official Nintendo guide to GBA Specs) and tiles CAN be flipped BOTH horizontal and vertical unless you use background modes which allow rotation and scaling, in which case you can not flip tiles at all.

This only horizontal flip thing is simply not true, whoever told you that is talking out of their ass.

And personally i think limiting yourself to 16x16 tiles when in the end it will be 8x8 tiles is a bit silly.

example:


4 8x8 tiles. Using hv flipping i made 12 16x16 tiles and there are way more possibilities. Calling this 12 tiles is silly because the gba handles them as 4 tiles and not 12. Using your restrictions you are not using the possibilities of your tiles to the fullest.

If the restriction is just to test how artists can cope with them i guess it's ok, but using stuff that makes sense for the platform you work on would make more sense imo.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #32 on: March 02, 2006, 11:47:34 pm
Ptoing, it depends on the engine and the game modes used. The tool I use most frequently allows for horizontal flipping but not vertical. Beyond that I'm not going to get into it, but you are talking in absolutes and general specs from Nintendo which may or may not be true based on the engines, modes, methods and tools used in any particular game.

At any rate, all the necessary info for the contest is above. If anyone dislikes the tile count, style, size, layout, limitations, whatever, you're certainly not forced to enter. But adapting to developer limitations (regardless of how practical they seem to be) is a huge part of surviving in the industry. All of the limitations above were thought out specifically based on what I need to test for right now with this contest (and yes, perhaps a bit of an over-restriction to greater showcase the ability of the artist). They aren't something that can be argued.

- Adam
« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 11:49:56 pm by AdamTierney »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #33 on: March 02, 2006, 11:53:29 pm
Yeh i have guessed so much that it is an engine limitation. I don't know how much sense it makes from a programming perspective but it does not seem to make much sense to me, I guess whoever programmed the engine had a reason to initiate this limitation (there is NO mode which only allows for H or V flipping on the GBA, either on or off, depending if you want to rotate and/or scale your backgrounds.)

I am thinking of participating if i can find some time (pretty busy with work atm.)

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #34 on: March 02, 2006, 11:55:08 pm


The Yus bird is bad enough to rescue the president, and there ain't no pink ninjas that can stop him!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #35 on: March 03, 2006, 12:37:47 am

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #36 on: March 03, 2006, 12:54:06 am
i was gonna enter. but all these entries are so good.

Offline Kren

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #37 on: March 03, 2006, 12:56:32 am

thats what i got so far, it's really difficult with only 40 tiles it's still incomplete, well im sure that i will not win XD, but im making this for fun, that's what a contest is for..

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #38 on: March 03, 2006, 01:07:34 am
"i was gonna enter. but all these entries are so good."

You should never let the talent of your peers discourage you. I've been around long enough to see all these guys come a LONG way from where they were a few years back, and you only get better from practice practice practice. Even if you don't feel up to this contest, the only way you'll master tiling (or pixelling or animation) is by attempting it again and again.

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #39 on: March 03, 2006, 01:16:54 am
I could not agree more.
For one thing i think you should never compare yourself with other artists in a way of saying "meh I will never be that good".
I started pixelart mid 2003 and in early 2005 i was offered a permanent job as 2d/pixel artist for a handhel company just because i kept doing what i liked and maintaining a homepage.

Only practise makes better, wishing or degrading yourself gets you nowhere.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #40 on: March 03, 2006, 01:46:41 am
Competitive mindset doesn't always make for good art, but sometimes it's good to have that pressure on. I agree it feels kinda eh when you enter in competition with people who you feel are vastly better, but you know, when you get going at it, you just may find yourself developing by leaps and bounds due to the 'nngh! must! train! harder!' effect.

also edit: Ptoing, I love you. Marry me and let us have krautgreek hairy kids.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 02:02:34 am by Helm »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #41 on: March 03, 2006, 02:29:41 am
@darionmccoy

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #42 on: March 03, 2006, 02:55:20 am
I could not agree more.
For one thing i think you should never compare yourself with other artists in a way of saying "meh I will never be that good".
I started pixelart mid 2003 and in early 2005 i was offered a permanent job as 2d/pixel artist for a handhel company just because i kept doing what i liked and maintaining a homepage.

Only practise makes better, wishing or degrading yourself gets you nowhere.
Yeah, remember: 3rd place is still fifty bucks!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #43 on: March 03, 2006, 03:00:45 am
Exactly. I was hoping that would keep people in here, too, because given the size of the task (doing a BG v. just a few sprites) I can see people saying 'Well I won't top that guy. Pass.' With 3 spots you're in a very good spot to take home something as long as you give it your all. And even if you don't, you have one more piece of art to add to that portfolio.

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #44 on: March 03, 2006, 04:41:37 am
1.can I re-use the same tile with a diferent pallete row?

2.what would "have a better chance"?
*unique still scene with no posible alternate use for the tiles
*fairly re-arrangeable tiled scene.

3. must everything be in the DD setup or can I bend perspective a little towards the horizon? (think metal slug cities)

4.Can I get the tile recognition program? XD I could just shoot myself sometimes
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:52:26 am by Camus »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #45 on: March 03, 2006, 05:42:20 am
Go with one perspective, as a sane man would....
hehe thanks, I think I may make another entry with one perspective.. which leads me to another question.. is it possible if say I submit two entries i could take out 1st and 2nd place?
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #46 on: March 03, 2006, 10:38:38 am
I had a go at it. No idea how to do the pallete, but the colors used are pretty simple, and should be under 40 tiles.  :)


Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #47 on: March 03, 2006, 02:57:57 pm
Helm, that looks incredible, but shouldn't you try to use more shades of color? I mean, you have the option and 2D-games generally don't look like that anymore.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 12:46:49 am by Helm »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #48 on: March 03, 2006, 04:21:11 pm
Helm, that looks incredible, but shouldn't you try to use more shades of color? I mean, you have the option and 2D-games generally don't look like that anymore.

Helm is HARDKORE, you know. And that is why we all love him.

Helm: It would be a given if you were a woman :D

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #49 on: March 03, 2006, 04:46:50 pm
Remember Sharp, to be considered you have to post one without the sprite in it, too.

"1.can I re-use the same tile with a diferent pallete row?

For the sake of this contest, that would count as a new tile.

"2.what would "have a better chance"?
*unique still scene with no posible alternate use for the tiles
*fairly re-arrangeable tiled scene."


Can't comment. Just comb through the rules and infer what you can from them.

"3. must everything be in the DD setup or can I bend perspective a little towards the horizon? (think metal slug cities)"

Just go off the rules posted. But the short answer is no, you shouldn't get penalized as long as it's predominantly the same as the DD perspective.

"4.Can I get the tile recognition program? XD I could just shoot myself sometimes"

It's only used by level designers and programmers, so probably not.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #50 on: March 03, 2006, 05:06:31 pm
Ok, now I'm more confused.  We doing the exact place in the photo right?  Or do we get to do just any sort of street based location? Saying this cos as good as Helm's piece is, it doesn't look a thing like the photo...

I'm wasting all my competiton time, not getting this...

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #51 on: March 03, 2006, 07:05:02 pm
From the instructions:

"Create a background in the same perspective as the Double Dragon map above, adapting elements, color themes and details from the above photo (basically, making a game background of the scene in that photo)."

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #52 on: March 04, 2006, 12:47:15 am
Quote
Helm, that looks incredible, but shouldn't you try to use more shades of color? I mean, you have the option and 2D-games generally don't look like that anymore.

This is a restriction-based skillbuilder, for me. I spent as much time making the art as I did trying to make it fit in 40 tiles. Therefore, I place conservation on all fronts very high in my to-do list for this image. Adam wants to see conservation, without the image suffering, I show him conservation without the image suffering. 'Many colours == more interesting image to look at' is an illusion. I've trained for years on how to unify palettes that have very disparately tinted slots, and this is what I do here too. Every end of the colour spectrum is represented, reds, greens, blues, yellows, purples and browns.

Plus, given that I have only 40 tiles, adding more colour to some of them would create many problems of cohesion and reusability of the tiles, no?

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #53 on: March 04, 2006, 01:33:13 am
I think Helm did a wonderful job. There's definitely that spectrum to go back and forth on - to decide whether to favor a high-detail high-color background like his, or favor simplicity for a greater object count and more obvious color variation. Either method (or a combination of the two) works fine and what's nice about such a low tile limit is it really forces the artist to make these considerations instead of having the best of all worlds.

- Adam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #54 on: March 04, 2006, 03:00:55 am
lovin the shiny sidewalk helm :P
ive started an entry, but i have basically no idea where im going with it.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #55 on: March 06, 2006, 07:41:03 am
Here's my more rule conforming attempt. The whole image is only in 16 colors. Its on a hill btw.





In case the jpeg looks bad on people's computers:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/sharprm/back1.gif
« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 08:00:31 am by sharprm »
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #56 on: March 06, 2006, 06:14:07 pm
Some nice entries so far

Here is my background
This contest fits more my abilitys than the last.


The street looks a little monotonous because the lack of unique tiles.
4 palettes, I dont no why someone need up to 10 for this one.

maybe add a hud and some random bad guys in the scene.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 12:05:27 am by vierbit »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #57 on: March 06, 2006, 11:15:11 pm
ehh perhaps ill try this one too...

who knows i might do better on this than the last one

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #58 on: March 07, 2006, 05:40:25 am
vierbit, excellent entry!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #59 on: March 07, 2006, 08:54:21 am
Vierbit, that is quite a solid entry there :D Glad to see more people like me and helm that like restrictions :D
Kinda has an Amiga vibe to it.

I really want to make one as well, Have to find some time after work!

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #60 on: March 09, 2006, 03:37:30 am
Saimon, your building is flat. It should project backwards at a 45 degree angle. Remember that tiles that are flipped horizontally, in this case, don't count as more tiles. Use that among your best judgement to collapse a couple tiles to make more that actually show the side of the foreground building.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #61 on: March 09, 2006, 03:54:41 am
For the horde!



Nice contest! motivated me to finish a tileset (first one here). It's fun to see the whole thing together in the end, after spending all that time looking just at the just small parts :). Hope there aren't any errors, i don't know if GGale has grid-snapping abilities, so it was mostly eyeballed while assembling the mockup. 35 colors, some used only in a couple of spots. Took me like 10 hours (i'm slooow). I was going to do the whole street sloped (and a city bg with sky and pretty tiled clouds), but realised that i couldn't make it work into the tile budget.

Edit: oops, noticed a few stray pixels. Fixed.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 04:48:50 am by Turbo »

Offline flaber

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #62 on: March 09, 2006, 05:41:35 am
Saimon, your building is flat. It should project backwards at a 45 degree angle. Remember that tiles that are flipped horizontally, in this case, don't count as more tiles. Use that among your best judgement to collapse a couple tiles to make more that actually show the side of the foreground building.

doesnt have to be 45 degrees. im using kinda an altered 45.. but yes, it should be angled in some manner

Offline neverest

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #63 on: March 10, 2006, 12:56:56 am
I have never really been a fan of this perspective, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway.
I'll no doubt edit this further:

EDIT: I removed this version to avoid confusion.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 02:49:15 pm by neverest »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #64 on: March 10, 2006, 11:16:37 pm
Hello my name is jalonso and I'm an.... oops wrong forum. I am posting early since I'm a bit n00bish and hoped if there are technical errors I could fix them before the deadline.
This is the entry I wish to submit



Tiles and colors used


I submit these different versions because the rules stated "fully realized world". I will remove if needed.






« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 11:18:45 pm by jalonso »

Offline vedsten

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #65 on: March 11, 2006, 01:21:16 am
excellent contest! quite challenging and great fun
kinda miss-used a couple of tiles so i might go back and tweak it a bit (same goes for colors ~ i could save a few), but this is more or less my finalized attempt:





40 tiles (suprise, suprise), 31clrs overall, missed the colorramp part of the rules, but i should be fine, ill post 'em when i summon the energy to make 'em

thanks to adam for doing those contests, great to see all the different styles and interpretations it spawns, might dew another one
« Last Edit: March 11, 2006, 01:26:56 am by vedsten »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #66 on: March 11, 2006, 08:38:09 pm
Yours is definitely my favorite, vedsten.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #67 on: March 11, 2006, 08:56:30 pm
You guys are all so good, i'm so discouraged from even attempting this.
And I am finally seeing that you were the one worth eating.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #68 on: March 11, 2006, 09:42:33 pm
Great work Vedsten, I really like how you used your tiles to make the scene.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #69 on: March 12, 2006, 04:25:28 pm
Oh crap. Now I have to work harder.  :P
GraphicsGale does have tile snapping capabilities, Turbo. Just turn on a 16x16 grid, and there is a button that says "Grid-Snapping". You can basically select 16x16 squares (or larger, in those increments), and then, you can copy them, and wherever you move your tiles, it'll be snapping to the 16x16 grid. It works for any other dimension as well, depending on what grid you set up first.
vierbit has me rootin' for him. vedsten's has total sweetness. TakaM's not bad as well.
Helm's has some sexy colors. Ptoing's is nice.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #70 on: March 12, 2006, 05:44:47 pm
A update


-fixed the the street tiles
-added some details
-change colors
-here and there some minor changes
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 01:58:33 pm by vierbit »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #71 on: March 12, 2006, 06:13:48 pm
@Helm: Pimpin' colors. All hail the Yus bird! *worships*

@Vedsten: I swear your entry looks like a cleaner version of terranigma's world... Awesome work!

@Vierbit: I really love your entry. Great details, great color, excellent composition. You're making me jealous *pouts*.



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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #72 on: March 12, 2006, 11:54:15 pm
I almost didn't enter 'cause of all the sexy, but I decided this afternoon to give it a go after all:

40 tiles, 22 colours, if I'm not mistaken. Kinda bland results, but fun to pixel all the same :D Oh well, guess I have a week to play with it before the deadline...
everyone else's are looking great!

EDIT:
Here's a mockup:

I thought about making my background more cluttered, like the ref pic, but then I decided I liked it simple ;D

EDIT(again):
Changed the tiles (and mockup) slightly. Now people over 3 feet tall can use the doors!

« Last Edit: March 13, 2006, 03:01:45 am by Tremulant »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #73 on: March 13, 2006, 12:03:51 am
Hey, thanks, Crazy Asian Gamer! I'll look into that, guess i didn't look hard enough the first time. Good luck with you entry!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #74 on: March 13, 2006, 06:04:24 am
Vedsten: I just have to say I love the clever use of sky tiles in the shop windows.

Tremulant: You should probably mix up your palette more. It feels very bland as is.

Jalonso: You have a lot of room to add colors, I would suggest adding some to bring more life to the street and buildings. The signs don't do it enough. The scale of the image is also very small.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #75 on: March 13, 2006, 09:42:40 pm
bleh..

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #76 on: March 13, 2006, 09:52:28 pm
Alex, that's amazing! Love it!! Really do!! You might want to tone down the road-colors though.
my ds homebrew blog! - contact me if you're interested to work with me on a ds game.

Offline vedsten

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #77 on: March 14, 2006, 01:08:06 am
wasn't too happy about anything but the tiling in my last entry, so thought i'd give a new one a quick go:




(the colorramps are made afterwords, so they're pretty fucked up, 27 clrs overall)

the tiling in the first one was way better, and im not too happy with it overall, so i hope i'll have the time to redo the coloring my first entry
~thx for all the comments
« Last Edit: March 14, 2006, 01:14:56 am by vedsten »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #78 on: March 14, 2006, 02:46:17 am
Wow, we've got some great ones coming through here. 

@vedsten: I'd say your first submission is the most aesthetically pleasing for me; It works very well as a background.  The colors preserve the detail while keeping it second in importance to the sprites that will go in there.  Not too much detail, just right.  The second one doesn't work as well for me; The outlines and dark, bold colors pop it out a bit too much.  It still shows some amazing technical detail, though.  Great entries.  I love your style.

@Alex Hanson-White: The composition of the street is very, very well done.  You keep great visual interest with your tiles, I just love the changes in elevation and the street twisting away into the background.  I like the colors, they give off a classic "summer street brawl" feeling.  Really no crits here.

@Tremulant: The bland colors and lack of stimulating details bring down the excitement of the piece.  Definitely breathe some life into the colors and use the tiles for all they're worth.  In the mockup, there's a little too much space above the fighters' heads.  Keep going, man.

@vierbit: Gosh, your details are so cool.  Beautiful colors, except maybe those window teals...they aren't too appealing.  Quite the solid entry; The details are amazing.

@jalonso: The world you've created with your tiles is very hard to grasp.  The same colors are used pretty much everywhere, and the textures make it hard to distinguish brick from door from window from road from sky.  The signs, though creatively made, only add to the confusion.  Also, the world is a bit too small to support fighter sprites with fully articulated moves.

@neverest: It's very technically well done.  However, the colors/style aren't quite enough to distinguish it from the other entries.  But the basic details are all there, and it's got a solid area to work from.

For all of you guys, I'd love to see more of what jalonso did: taking the tiles and making different rearrangements.  Though I don't really have any importance in this contest, It'd be great for me and WayForward to see what can be done with the tilesets--I'd love to see some other realizations.  Well done everyone.

Offline Schu

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #79 on: March 14, 2006, 03:40:46 am
After deleting 5 times I've decided on this and I'm finally pleased, albeit a little sparse...


(40 tiles, 32 colours)

...but after a snickers bar, some ice cider and a lot of Jrock on my winamp:

It seems functional at least.

Vedsten - Your first one was so nice, it was truly my favourite. There was just some weird thing going on with the brick of that back building though, I couldn't tell if it was a slanty, attached piece or if it was going behind the front building. But I have to say, I liked that one so much more than your new one (Though also cool, but too dark for my personal taste...it doesn't seem finished so I'm reserved in commenting more on it).

Alex Hanson-White - I like yours as well :) I kind of imagine little dudes skateboarding down around on it.
------
Schu

Offline jalonso

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #80 on: March 14, 2006, 06:53:50 am
@ Blick and Faktablad
Thanks for the c+c, I will rework and re-submit before the deadline. It seems I read the directions very differently than everyone else. n00bitis.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #81 on: March 14, 2006, 03:10:49 pm
Woh... Double Dragon... blast fromn the past... Wigfod!!!

I did this on the spectrum back in 87... ha ha haah...
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #82 on: March 15, 2006, 02:39:23 am

Ok, one more try. Palette probably still sucks, but I couldn't figure it out so this is what came of it.
Scenes:

Street level                                              Rooftops

An assload of colors, but only 38 tiles. The sky is hiddeous :P No more time though, so this is where it ends. First one was better.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2006, 04:30:01 am by Tremulant »

Offline Niss

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #83 on: March 15, 2006, 12:35:20 pm
whao that's fun. so far I've used up 36 tiles and 13 colors
Hopefully I will find some more time to tweak this. Well anyways here it is>>

and the tiles>>


helm: man your colors are remarkable! Looks a bit like crayons or something. Master of sexy greys you are :)

vedsten: Very much liked your first one. Smooth and lovely.


Great contest Adam. Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2006, 01:19:41 pm by Niss »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #84 on: March 15, 2006, 02:21:33 pm


and the tiles>>



HOLY that's sweet! Teh colors rule! And bricks! Me like

A larger tileset (using 2 or more tiles for each element like doors and windows) allows for more detail, but limits the variety you can introduce with the tileset. The majority of people seem more inclined into doing that apparently... I'm noticing that everyone's picking just a couple of elements from the picture, like the signs and doors/windows, and forgetting the general look of the street (i don't see any bricked walls on these buildings except on the corners, yet most everyone's going that way. And doing night shots and stuff).

Just a rant.

Offline balam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #85 on: March 15, 2006, 04:12:14 pm
looking good...

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #86 on: March 15, 2006, 08:15:27 pm
"What's with the 16x16 tiles? GBA has 8x8 tiles natively and i am pretty sure you can flip horizontally and vertically and it's still the same tile, no matter how you flip it (noflip / x / y / x,y = same tile). You can not rotate tho. and why only 10 palettes and not the full 16? I guess reserve for hud or something? Could you clarify?"

When we build levels, we do so with 8x8 tiles but 16x16 matrixes. Level building is done in 16x16's not 8x8s. Horizontal flips do not eat up additional tiles, but vertical do - that's GBA. As for the 10 pallette rows, that's just the number I decided on.

I just checked the AGB documents (official Nintendo guide to GBA Specs) and tiles CAN be flipped BOTH horizontal and vertical unless you use background modes which allow rotation and scaling, in which case you can not flip tiles at all.

This only horizontal flip thing is simply not true, whoever told you that is talking out of their ass.

And personally i think limiting yourself to 16x16 tiles when in the end it will be 8x8 tiles is a bit silly.

example:


4 8x8 tiles. Using hv flipping i made 12 16x16 tiles and there are way more possibilities. Calling this 12 tiles is silly because the gba handles them as 4 tiles and not 12. Using your restrictions you are not using the possibilities of your tiles to the fullest.

If the restriction is just to test how artists can cope with them i guess it's ok, but using stuff that makes sense for the platform you work on would make more sense imo.

I totally agree with ptoing here... I was gonna mention about horizontal AND verticle flips... but I guess ptoings already said it...
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Offline neverest

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #87 on: March 15, 2006, 10:35:41 pm
thanks for the crits Faktablad, I finally got the patience to spend a while making it a bit less ugly. I may tweak it some more yet though.





40 tiles, 32 colours.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #88 on: March 16, 2006, 03:13:37 am
Oh wow, excellent improvement.  It looks 100% better.  Well done.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #89 on: March 16, 2006, 12:20:40 pm
FINAL thing
just a few color tweaks and 2 new tiles. That's it
pic>>

tiles>>


oh and 13 colors
« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 12:49:31 pm by Niss »

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #90 on: March 16, 2006, 02:42:09 pm
FINAL thing
just a few color tweaks and 2 new tiles. That's it
pic>>

tiles>>


oh and 13 colors


Hi niss...

The amount of colors your using really shows, (in a negative way) - I think that one of the technicle points of this excercise is to demonstrate the understanding of using mulitiple pallettes across a character mapped image. Background development on GBA isn't the same as producing a sprite that may (or may not depending) be in 16 colors.

Each Character square can consist of 16 colors taken from a bank of 16 pallettes making a total of 256 color indexes. Certain restrictions are applied prior to development (depending on what else you may want to display on the screen using the screen pallette) so it's generally a good a idea to keep your color use as economic as possible. But I think 13 colors is perhaps a little too economic.

If you have a look at neverest's post you will see how he/she has arranged 4 'banks' of 16 colours.

A good Background artist needs to understand this. Color sharing across banks is also important if you want to blend from one pallette range to another. This is also demonstrated in neverest's image, although he/she has taken full advantage of this sharing which is evident in the straight edges - (having said that it's nice work)

he says..."Each tile can have a maximum of 15 colors in it (this is one 'pallette row'). The scene can have a maximum of 10 different pallette rows across all tiles"

This means you can have 10 banks of 16 (or 15 as adam more correctly puts it) colors. 150 colors in total.

It's a shame as you've made such a good effort but I think you perhaps misunderstood Adam's description?



I've just had a look at a few of these images and it seems that the pallettes aren't arranged well in a number of them?



I hope it's not just me but the majority of these backgrounds don't conform to a GBA pallette structure. Now, call me mean but in my opinion, regardless of how good they look should any of these go through for consideration?! I am mean aren't I? but I've read the rules and the reason why I didn't enter is because I know how tediously complicated background development can be with regards to making the pallettes work correctly across the character squares and tiles (someone in the know back me up on this one - Ptoing? Adam!?) - if this comp was purely on asthetics then most of these are strong contenders, but as is so often the case people overlook the underlying technicle elements because you can't SEE them... or because they don't understand... but take it from me it's important to understand... particularly if you want to win this contest.... or more importantly making sure that the art in question would work on a GBA!? which in most cases here present... they wouldn't...

yes I am mean aren;t I!? :)



« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 05:39:04 pm by baccaman21 »
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #91 on: March 16, 2006, 03:19:36 pm


I like this one the most... just curious to know what the pallettes look like...

Damn my version of Promotion won't load PNG's anymore!! GRRRR!?!
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Offline Niss

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #92 on: March 16, 2006, 03:59:06 pm
Nope I think I got Adam right - just happen to be such a color count(yeah I understood the palletebank thing - not so complicated).
Just have to step back from it for a day - can't judge mine properly without some distance(too late for the deadline maybe but I like to tweak and improve my pics over time...)

Offline hondo

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #93 on: March 16, 2006, 09:10:44 pm
I've got mine done.  I tried to capture the feel of looking down the street like in the example.  I'm pretty happy with it ^_^  I grouped all my 40 tiles on the left and made sure each tile had only 15 colours.  Then, just because I'm anal, I grouped the tiles that used a specific pallet together so it'd be easier to see what I've done.  Five pallets in total.  I must say the I cranked though my 40 tiles super fast and had to go back and optamize a lot before the final result.

I think I got all this right.



If I had to pick wich ones like the best I'd say that Schu and Vedsten are tops.

Good work everyone. ^_^

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #94 on: March 16, 2006, 11:51:49 pm
excellent work hondo.

You demonstrate the notion of the task well. Particularly with regards to what I've been saying about pallettes (see my previous post on pallette ordering...) Do you think you could process your work again bearing in mind the color grouping you've demonstrateed on the right of your submitted image?

In other words, actually set up the five pallettes you have highlighted and remap each tile into the relevant pallette and then finally rebuild the image?

This would be the final step you need in order to make the image 'GBA legal' - as it stands right now, the GIF image I'm looking at the pallettes amount to 3 rows - amounting to 41 colors, with all color 0's of those banks being used...

Aside from the underying techinical crit... it's looking very nice and cleanly pixeled.

good work fella...

(go on... try palletting it properly... It's not that hard and you're 90% of the way there already!)

Good Luck...

Pete :)

PS... If you don't palletize it I may give it a whirl in the morning...
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Offline neverest

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #95 on: March 17, 2006, 01:23:41 am
I dont understand this: "In other words, actually set up the five pallettes you have highlighted and remap each tile into the relevant pallette and then finally rebuild the image?"
at all. What is it exactly we need to change?

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #96 on: March 17, 2006, 01:25:37 am
man, the content is too good, I'm gonna give it a whirl but I'm not sure I'll submit because I'm not sure I'd even make it to 3rd

great stuff in here, I'm impressed pixelopolis =)

Neverest: well, let's being by the beggining, do you know how to edit a gif's pallete?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 01:29:54 am by Camus »

Offline Schu

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #97 on: March 17, 2006, 01:29:16 am
Say... I don't mean to sound rude or anything, and I'm sure we all appreciate you lending your knowledge and help but I'm starting to feel like this technical stuff about pallettes and GBA legality is really starting to kill any fun factor of this contest and might be scaring away others who haven't submitted their entries yet...
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Offline Conzeit

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #98 on: March 17, 2006, 01:39:45 am
well, baccaman IS a little out of place, much like I was in the popeye challenge in that he IS making valid truthful points, but it is not his place to be telling people how they're supposed to make their entries for the contest since however truthful his points may be they might just not be Adam's intention.

but In all honesty I think baccaman IS doing it purely to help people have a better chance at winning. in my oppinion if you want a real chance at the prize you DO need to be pallete-row aware.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 01:54:42 am by Camus »

Offline vedsten

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #99 on: March 17, 2006, 01:45:49 am
-----------------------------------------------------------------

ENTRY A   /   ENTRY B    /   ENTRY C

-----------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                                     

~31 colors; 40 tiles, 7 paletterows / ~27 colors; 40 tiles, 5 paletterows / ~14 colors; 40 tiles, 1 paletterow

______________________________________


Quote from: Baccaman
"I like this one the most... just curious to know what the pallettes look like... "

- thx, palette rows are now included

Quote from: Schu
"Vedsten - Your first one was so nice, it was truly my favourite. There was just some weird thing going on with the brick of that back building though, I couldn't tell if it was a slanty, attached piece or if it was going behind the front building. But I have to say, I liked that one so much more than your new one (Though also cool, but too dark for my personal taste...it doesn't seem finished so I'm reserved in commenting more on it)."

- the back building's supposed to "pop" out, the odd lines are there to preserve tiles, it's a re-use, and though ill have to admit it looks a tad odd when you look at it for too long and zoom in, t shouldn't be too noticeable (or that, atleast, was the plan ^^), i agree, the second one's too dark, i actually tried making a pisece w. alot of contrast, cuz im pretty bad at it, and thus ~ i failed misrablely ^^, btw, quite the nifty entry you've submitted

Quote from: Faktablad
"@vedsten: I'd say your first submission is the most aesthetically pleasing for me; It works very well as a background.  The colors preserve the detail while keeping it second in importance to the sprites that will go in there.  Not too much detail, just right.  The second one doesn't work as well for me; The outlines and dark, bold colors pop it out a bit too much.  It still shows some amazing technical detail, though.  Great entries.  I love your style."

-Glad you like the first one, agree on your comments on the second ^^


Thx for the comments, and thx for the contest, excellent training!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 04:44:49 am by vedsten »

Offline Xion

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #100 on: March 17, 2006, 01:57:24 am
I love the simplicity of that last one, vedsten. Just beautiful.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #101 on: March 17, 2006, 02:53:02 am
Baccaman21, you're entirely correct. This contest allows 10 palette rows of 15 colors each. Now that might mean up to 150 colors max, but it's probably going to end up being much less (because I'll wager, for example, you'll use black in more than 1 palette row). To reassure you though, yes, this is a critical part of the contest and I will be checking final entries for this as we judge. The top three spots cannot be taken by anyone using more than 10 color rows in their entire image. So don't let the fact that not everyone seems focused on that keep you down - many entires will naturally fall into the limitations because they're low color anyway, but it is entirely possible for someone to have an image with only 25 total colors that uses up 11 rows (do the math). That's why it's safest to really consider those rows as you pixel. The people who've been categorizing their pieces next to color rows are the safest.

Why are we stressing this instead of just having a fun tiling time? Because that's how it has to be done on GBA. Palettes are everything, and on a typical tileset you only get 16 rows for the entire tileset/map (so 10 for one GBA screen is actually giving you quite a lot).

- Adam

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #102 on: March 17, 2006, 03:20:13 am
Not sure if I can finish the last 6 tiles before deadline, so I'm puttin this here just in case.

10 col total.  ::)

Offline jalonso

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #103 on: March 17, 2006, 03:32:07 am
This is a second entry, and the second tileset I've ever made. I have made loads of progress and learned an awful lot just studying the other entries, so I win no matter what ;)





Using 38 tiles

Using 35 tiles

Using 36 tiles

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #104 on: March 17, 2006, 05:06:35 am
You certainly have progressed, jalonso. It's just, uh... I don't think it's in Double Dragon perspective. :-\
Otherwise, nice empiric victory.  :D

EDIT: By the way, jalonso, might I add how much I ADORE that city backdrop?

ANOTHER EDIT??? WTF: I read previous posts. Looks like it doesn't have to be exactly DD perspective (I think...).
I also read baccaman's post. Heh... it's too late to change my colors/add new colors now. :D (wee)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 05:29:00 am by Crazy Asian Gamer »

Offline Blick

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #105 on: March 17, 2006, 05:27:53 am
A lot of progress made, jalonso. Like CAG said, it's not the Double Dragon perspective because of it having a vanishing point, but it's a good effort anyway.

If I (procrastinated less/could tile) I might've done one of these.

I'm riding on the hope that WayForward Contest #4 involves drawing bananas.

Offline Akira

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #106 on: March 17, 2006, 06:58:53 am
ahh hell. Forgot about this right up to the end. Quick entry, bout 2 hours worth, 40 tiles, 44 colours:

Really didn't have the time to texture everything since i'm away tomorrow and need sleep now. Oh well, C&C if you wanna.
I'll do better next time..

EDIT: Here's a 6 colour just cause i can.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 07:43:19 am by Akira »
thanks Dogmeat!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #107 on: March 17, 2006, 08:10:31 am
I was working on one of these, started 2 weeks ago, but forgot about it.
Tried to go back to it yesterday, as I remembered about it, but everything I did for it looked rather rushed, and ended up feeling ill from a cold I was carrying since a few days ago.
Anyway, I'll just post the wip of what I had.



So far it only uses one palette row.
The road tiles were made multi-tileable for creating different cracks and effects using the less amount of tiles.

Anyway, good luck to everyone that is participating.

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #108 on: March 17, 2006, 08:39:37 am
I was working on one of these, started 2 weeks ago, but forgot about it.
Tried to go back to it yesterday, as I remembered about it, but everything I did for it looked rather rushed, and ended up feeling ill from a cold I was carrying since a few days ago.
Anyway, I'll just post the wip of what I had.



So far it only uses one palette row.
The road tiles were made multi-tileable for creating different cracks and effects using the less amount of tiles.

Anyway, good luck to everyone that is participating.
I would contravertially say that for me this is hands down the winner... even though it's not completed - the choice of color pallette, the placement of pixels I can tell immediatly that panda has underlying skills that I believe are close to professional... with respect to background development that is... well done panda!

I think this is a tremendous effort, Just superb... I love the fact he's managed to develop the cracks so that he can create 4 varying types over a larger 2x2 tile area - that shows skills with understand tesselation as well as being economic with the character coun -  I love the end piece on the brick work as it juts out into that gap... the way it sticks out to 'counter' the obviousness of the tile boundaries, which I feel a lot of the others here don't successfully manage to remove.

Finally, I love the painterly subtle style - notice the lack of intense dark colors (such as black) this pushes the background INTO the background, which allows game sprites and any HUD to stand out on top of it... which is good for gameplay. - I always prefer backgrounds to be less saturated and less contrasting.

Taken to it's ultimate conclusion I beleive this would really suit a "modern" beat em up game that was perhaps based on something like justice league or the x-men... or the mutant turtles... Particularly with bright vibrant 'cel shaded' style combatants over the top of it...

Plus he's only used 1 pallette row so far...

Simply Stunning.


Vedstens work is also great. nice pallettes, Entry A & C particularly... I think B could be desaturated and the contrast reduced slightly also... but that's personal choice. (See my comment above)
out of the three I'd rank them in order of merit - A 1st, C 2nd (purely for it's simplicity), with B 3rd ... mainly because of the contrast and choice of colors set's it down a few pegs.

All in all though a great effort.


I also think the texture in Vierbits offering is really nice... personally I prefer the more flat color work but your work is excellently done and also quite professional. It has elements of Metal Slug About it... (praise indeed)

Another good pixel pusher. Well Done Vierbit.


With regards to those of you who think I'm being harsh, I apologise - I've been on these boards now for 3 days and I'm still yet to gain the 'vibe' of the place so I'm sorry if I've offended any of you.

However - having said that - I do have a significant understanding of this medium and this format particularly and In all honesty I'm making these comments in a bid to help you all understand the rules of this contest and ultimately win it... as adam points out, those of you who have illustrated their choice of pallette are the safest - I'm just a stickler for pallette management having stayed up to the early hours on too many times to mention, correcting pallette errors that my old art team had incorporated into their work...

But I get your point about the fun factor and I'll bear it in mind in future.

Thanks and Good luck.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 10:10:00 am by baccaman21 »
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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #109 on: March 17, 2006, 10:19:13 am
I dont understand this: "In other words, actually set up the five pallettes you have highlighted and remap each tile into the relevant pallette and then finally rebuild the image?"
at all. What is it exactly we need to change?
Excuse me Hondo for using your submittion to illustrate my point... I hope you don't mind.

from this...   


...to this


And yes it's a bit anal... but actually more accurate. The first image is Hondo's orginal image with the addition of the actual GIF pallette indexes. See how even though he's illustrated in his image what his choice of pallettes are the actual GIF PALLETTE doesn't reflect this choice. Where as the 2nd image has been repalletized according to GBA 16 colored character map screen conventions.

Perhaps you don't see the difference as both images look identical but technically it's correct.

I just wanted to point this out... I don't want to ruin the fun, so to say, as hondo has precisely specified his CHOICE of pallettes which as it turns out works fine. as I've demonstrated in the 2nd image. Visually there IS no difference it's just the way the pallette is organised that has changed.

Anyway... I hope this helps you to understand neverest... Keep up the good work!

I'm curious now to see who adam will choose as the overall winners... :S
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 11:42:01 am by baccaman21 »
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Offline Locrian

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #110 on: March 17, 2006, 11:31:36 am


added color ramps
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 06:31:31 pm by Locrian »

Offline pixelaro

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #111 on: March 17, 2006, 03:44:38 pm
First version. Png..


**EDIT**
Final submission with the paletterows.. (A pain in the ass I might mention.. :P)
But the extra time was great.. really didn't like the tiling in the first one at all.. Good luck to all entrants. Great job. :)

« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 07:30:00 pm by pixelaro »
:::....

Offline hondo

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #112 on: March 17, 2006, 04:05:43 pm
Okay, I'm sorry if I'm mean but I do feel this contest has had the fun sucked out of it.  Baccaman21, I'm sure your intentions are good and all your tips are valid but I believe there's no need to be this anal.  It's not your contest.  I can't speak for Adam but if he saw issues with what people where posting then he'd probably would have brought them up.  It's a contest, it's supposed to be fun and not everyone here works in the game industry.

Now in case people are wondering what it is this is all about I've set up a run down as to how create this proper GBA pallet set up.

This is my submission with proper pallet set up and this is what it's pallet looks like.





This image now uses a pallet table of 5 rows.  Each row has been set up to represent each tile/pallet group that I've made in my original submission.



How I got to that point is like this (there might be an easier way but this is how I did it).  I converted my tile/pallet groups in to 5 monochrome groups.  Then I rebuilt the street image with these new funky coloured tiles.



I then created a new image file and made a forced pallet to fit what I would need.  Creating a force pallet is easy if you know how.  For those that don't know (and not everyone does) here's how I did it.  In Photoshop (that's what I used anyway) you go to Image>Mode>Indexed Colourr.  In the window that pops up you go to the Forced drop down and select Custom.  This will open your Colour Table. 



At this point I went and systematically picked each colour from the funky coloured squares under the word pallet 1, 2, 3, etc... from my funky coloured street image until I filled a whole row (with my transparent colour in front).  I did this for each row.

Then I dragged the funky street in to this new image with the forced funky pallet and went back in to the colour table and changed each colour back to it's proper hue.  The result is that my tiles are now grouped in to pallet rows of colour.  And like what Baccaman21 said there is not difference visually to the image unless you look at it's colour table.

Total time to convert to this "proper GBA" pallet system... 35 min.

Now again I can't speak for Adam seeing as it's his contest and not mine, but I'm pretty sure that he'd didn't intend anyone to go this far with their submission.  I know I wouldn't have.  I didn't have plans to do all this but I didn't want people to feel like they where being left out and such because they might not now how to do everything that Baccaman21 was talking about.  So I helped, at least I hope I helped.  I"m sorry if I've only made things more confusing.

Adam, I also apologize to you if I've stepped on your toes and/or brought the contest down.  That wasn't my intention to do so.  If it gets me booted from the contest then I accept that.

Thank you.

Offline Locrian

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #113 on: March 17, 2006, 04:25:45 pm
slightly different version.  not sure if its better or worse.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 06:31:57 pm by Locrian »

Offline balam

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #114 on: March 17, 2006, 05:22:53 pm
I have two entries. On the first entry, I was trying to get creative with the tile set, attempting to get as close as possible to the photograph. The second entry(although unfinished) was more of a fun assignment based on the photograph. I would appreciate some c+c, regardless of the contest deadline. Thanks.







Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #115 on: March 17, 2006, 05:39:48 pm

I don't like this van very much, honestly, so I might just stick with the other one. *sigh* if only I was better....

baccaman: I'm somewhat sure Panda is a signed pro (I think he's involved with game dev with some GBA game). Your comments are helpful, but I wish you made something yourself (as I'm sure it'd be impressive :D). Pixelopolis is a semi-professional place, haha. (semi, being that, as others mentioned, we do try to make this a fun environment.)

Locrian: I love your simple colors, and those bricks. I'm leaning towards your second submission (for this contest, at least. I really like the first one as much).

hondo: Fun funky colors  :D. Nice of you to post your process.

Panda: Those are some sexy cracks! And that puddle, WOW. I do wish you could have finished that, as I'm sure its potential is... *whistles*.

Akira: For some reason, I like your nighttime 6 color edit of it better. Call it a frugal color sense.  :P

balam: Well, it's accurate.... But I don't think it gives off the same color vibe as the photo. Maybe a quick color edit, and it'd be superb (for the contest. I actually have no/nit-picky problems with your current palette).

Offline AlexHW

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #116 on: March 17, 2006, 07:21:54 pm
great entries, guys..

I did a bit of last minute optimizing and looked over my tiles to see if anything was wrong, heres an update with the palette as well:

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #117 on: March 17, 2006, 09:46:56 pm
This is my entry with a pretty drastic palette change.

Offline Perciv@l

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #118 on: March 18, 2006, 12:59:05 am
Here is my entry.

original





less contrast




I rush to finish this before the deadline. I'm not totally ok with the result. If I had more time I would fix some things and change the palette a bit.  :-\


39 tiles and 32 colors

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #119 on: March 18, 2006, 02:44:31 pm
CUTOFF! :) Wow, I am just astounded by the number of entires and the absolute quality of them all. This is gonna be a tough contest. Thank God we split the prize. Next time we're gonna have to have like 10 places  :P We won't be looking over them until Monday, so everyone rest easy and we'll post results either Monday or Tuesday.

"Okay, I'm sorry if I'm mean but I do feel this contest has had the fun sucked out of it.  Baccaman21, I'm sure your intentions are good and all your tips are valid but I believe there's no need to be this anal.  It's not your contest.  I can't speak for Adam but if he saw issues with what people where posting then he'd probably would have brought them up.  It's a contest, it's supposed to be fun and not everyone here works in the game industry."

I see it from both sides. It's in the rules, so the entrants are held to those limitations. Do the images need to properly paletted here? Of course not, otherwise I would have asked for bmp and pcx files only. Ultimately a BG artist does have to be this anal about stuff (more than any other type of pixel artist, in my opinion) but this is a contest, not a job. So fun is definitely something to be had. I'm not really taking a side. Just kind of saying I see things from both your sides. :)

- Adam

Offline baccaman21

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #120 on: March 18, 2006, 05:49:11 pm
fair play... apologies to all those concerned... and well done.

Regards

Pete
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #121 on: March 21, 2006, 05:43:17 am
just wondering adam, I noticed a while ago my entry had 41 tiles in it (one of the repeated tiles was missing two pixels) when i went to fix it a while ago, i also changed one tile a tiny bit, really nothing huge.

is it alright to enter this version with the tile fixed but another tile a bit better?
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #122 on: March 21, 2006, 06:02:08 am
Short answer: It's a busy week and we won't be judging til at least tomorrow, so whatever pics are here tomorrow morning will be the ones judged.

- Adam

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #123 on: March 21, 2006, 06:38:29 am
ok great, i did a little more work on my entry:

and the proccess anim again:

as you can see there isnt much difference between the last two frames

edit-
(these are the same images as the ones in my very first post in this topic now)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:33:45 am by .TakaM »
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #124 on: March 21, 2006, 09:23:06 am
Please edit your original post for consideration. Any art posted after the cutoff post I made won't be counted.

- Adam

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #125 on: March 24, 2006, 08:43:24 pm
Here are the results:

1st place ($150) - Vedsten
2nd place ($100) - Alex
3rd place ($50) - Vierbit

Thanks to all who entered. We really were blown away by the amount of talent showcased in this competition. The way we judged was each art lead at the company (around 8 or so people) chose their three favorite entries, based on pixelling quality, Double Dragon perspective and use of elements from the source photo. The first choise from each judge got 3 votes, the second choice 2 and the third choice 1 (so each judge was casting 6 votes, essentially). Below is a breakdown of which entries took the votes.

Note that I haven't audited the entries yet. I'm going to pull the three winning entries into our tool and check tile count today, so there's a slight chance any of them could be disqualified due to breaking restrictions on color palettes or tile counts (but I'm pretty sure all three of these came in under budget). If an entry is disqualified, the list below will be bumped up. Those who won (1st through 3rd), please send your name and mailing address (as well as which place you took) to adam@wayforward.com and we'll cut you a check next week.


Offline David

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #126 on: March 25, 2006, 04:25:12 am
Not surprised at all. Nice work from everyone but especially the top three.

Offline Miguel

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #127 on: March 25, 2006, 05:03:39 am
Alex is one of the best pixellers out there, but i think his entry does not deserves 2th, it looks really rushed, and the way the streets goes diagonal makes the whole composition look like out of proportion, with all the respect, its the only one i feel doesnt deserves that... there was better ones.

no offense alex just my sincere though, i really think Alex is one of the best pixeler of this forum... but that was not his best piece, sincerely.

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #128 on: March 25, 2006, 05:32:20 am
*sigh*, I guess my entry was kinda off...
(As in really off)...
Oh well. :D

Offline AlexHW

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #129 on: March 25, 2006, 06:07:41 am
Miguel, I don't think I rushed my entry. I started my entry fairly early and a couple times I even tried restarting from scratch to see if I could do any alternative ideas in my head, but I kept returning to my first piece and just rebuilding it and making it stronger.
With 40 tiles, there's only so much you can do and include in the space while maintaining the original essence of the photo and perspective. I purposfully kept certain aspects in my piece simple such as my road(which I feel really produces a dynamic and fluid movement throughout the scene). I agree that it isn't my best work and doesn't showcase dazzling pixel techniques, but I can accept it for what it is and be happy with what ive done knowing all the decisions I have made in the process.
btw, Congrats to the others, it was fun!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 06:10:11 am by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline Miguel

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #130 on: March 25, 2006, 06:44:15 am
No offense man, sorry if I sounded rude, i was stating my humble opinion, i think i didnt know how to phrase it well, it wasnt meant to be an attack... i just think there was others much better than yours, which probably took the same time as yours and they had the same challengue as yours.

I am not trying to start a fight, and i wish i could be more constructive, but for me its kind of unfair, thats all... about rushing it, it it wasnt, i think it could used more work IMHO, (from other stuff that ive seen from you that shouldnt be a challengue)

the perspective you used on the road/streets keeps looking wrong, i dont imagine streets like that, thats what i mean.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 06:50:51 am by Miguel »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #131 on: March 25, 2006, 08:15:08 am
Im pretty dissappointed with how i ranked, one that got more votes than me barely even fits the criteria. I thought I wouldve faired better for showing the tops of buildings (ala double dragon style) rather than playing it safe and making tiles for only the walls, oh well, fair enough. congrats to the winners ;)
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Offline vierbit

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #132 on: March 25, 2006, 12:34:06 pm
Holy shit  :o
I made the 3rd place.
Was a nice contest.
Not surprised about the first place,
I think TakaMs entry should be having more votes.

congrats to the winners

Offline Niss

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #133 on: March 25, 2006, 02:56:28 pm
Congratulations you three (bastards :) )! It really was a fun contest.
Adam will you offer some crits for this like you did with the sprites?
(oh and baccaman I stumbled over my resonse to your fine crit and it may sound a bit bitchy. If that's so I didn't mean it that way. It's just that I was aware of the technical part - I read about it before I started my entry  - but you said that the amount of colors showed and that's what really interests me. So if you've got time and would like to elaborate on that point I'd be very pleased to listen. Here,PM or a new thread - whatever. Maybe we should have some heavy crit now after the contest like we usually have in non-contest things?)

Offline Locrian

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #134 on: March 25, 2006, 10:16:37 pm
Yeah I wouldn't mind a crit.  From Adam or anyone else.  I've never really done anything like this before.  I've always avoided tiling cause it seemed so tedious.  And it kind of is, but surprisingly fun.  I guess the fun IS that its a challenge.  Definitely makes you think about what you're doing. 

Congrats to the winners, and all who submitted.

Offline Filax_666

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #135 on: March 25, 2006, 10:36:08 pm
Congratulations to all of you, you submited some amazing stuff, and especially to those who won!

I just don't get why Helm's didn't get any vote...

Offline Froli

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #136 on: March 26, 2006, 11:22:34 am
I think it's better that they don't show the number of votes for each entries. Seriously it does put down some people a bit, I know that we are aware of this when we participate but, this is probably a good way to minimize some arguments if it does occur. That's my opinion of course.

Anyway, guys everyone did a great job and I'm not saying this just to make everyone feel better, but this scenes are awesome in my eyes.   ;D

Offline Locrian

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #137 on: March 26, 2006, 12:52:25 pm
I like having a break-down of the points.  It lets you know how far off you were.  Compared to the top two, my votes are very low.  Wasn't a close call by any means.  For my entry anyway.  Leads me to believe the winners probably tackled key issues much more competently than me.  So now I go look at em and try to learn some things.  I feel like... if ya can't handle being judged, don't compete.

Offline Akira

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #138 on: March 27, 2006, 06:02:59 am
haha i knew i did shit. Next time perhaps i can get a vote ;D
thanks Dogmeat!

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #139 on: March 27, 2006, 06:35:24 am
whoa, I bet I would've made something most like helm's (but probably with uglier colors XD) I still was way too afraid to enter.

I wish I could know what were the general reasons to pick the exact guys that won.

(hope that came out a weee little better than last time XD I swear I meant the exact same thing with the same tone and everything c.c)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 06:42:19 am by Camus »

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #140 on: March 27, 2006, 07:26:51 am
I'll try to do some crits when I have some free time. In the meantime, feel free of course to continue critiquing each other. :) As for listing votes v. listing only winners, I always kinda struggle on this. Ultimately I wanted to throw praise to as many people as I could. If one entry got 9 votes, and another got 5, it seems kind of wrong to have only one of the two take the glory. I apologize to anyone whose entry wasn't voted on (which of course is a majority of the entries, so don't take it personally) but that was my reason, to let those entrants who got votes know about it.

As for judging, all judges were shown the contest source images and I went over the rules with them, specifically that first line "Create a background in the same perspective as the Double Dragon map above, adapting elements, color themes and details from the above photo". It wasn't just a contest for solid pixelling, every judge knew what they were looking for. Of course, beautiful pixelling is also essential for a winning entry. Ultimately I'd say the judges (certainly myself included) voted on entries that looked great, were in the proper perspective and pulled elements and colors from the photo.

As for Alex's entry, I personally love it. But then, we've all come to expect that from him. The hills look like a lot of fun (and yes, are in the perspective of the DD - even though that game didn't have ramps, we're talking visual perspetive which in this case is generally straight-on building faces with 45-degree angled depth). I believe it was one of my three votes, but I've looked at them all so much it's hard to recall now.

"Im pretty dissappointed with how i ranked, one that got more votes than me barely even fits the criteria."

I believe I voted for yours as well, Taka. As far as elements from the photo, yours is way up there. And the pixelling is great. The only thing lacking slightly was cohesion and flow of the piece. It's very obvious where each tile is, and where the breaks are. Conversely, Vedsten's entry (which uses less elements from the photo) is incredibly creative in its tile use, to the point where it hardly looks tiled at all. There's no easy answer for all this, all I can say is I reinforced the idea to every judge before voting that we were considering all of these factors, not just which entry appealed to them visually (and as they judged, I saw a lot of clicking back and forth between the source images and the entries).

- Adam

Offline jalonso

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #141 on: March 27, 2006, 08:56:27 am
This was fun, and tilesets are really hard to do, I have a new found admiration for this type of pixelart. Congrats to the winners.

Offline hondo

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #142 on: March 27, 2006, 02:31:39 pm
Dang!  I dropped to 4th.  Ah well, I know mine was rushed and I wasn't very happy with it to be truthful.  But hey!  Congrats to the winners!  The streets are indeed very well done.  It was a good show by everyone I think. ^_^

Congrats again ^_^