AuthorTopic: Feature 06 - Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)  (Read 142942 times)

Offline skw

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okay, so here we go again. I’d kind of neglected the thread before, but it’s up and running again. all in all, I’m done with my paid job for now.

as you remember, the original ’95 conceptual sketch was this:

Click!

yep, it’s quite badly-made, just unbelievable those guys made it into Fallout, a cornerstone of computer role playing gaming. . . right? but after all, this is how early concepts are; we can just take no notice of its little shortcomings – it’s a good starting point anyway, innit?

in Fallout, Razor is depicted as “a very beautiful woman with a sad look in her eyes” and says “Razor’s the name. I’m the closest thing we have for a leader.” when she introduces herself to the player. what we have here is an example of quite an important character with a strong personality. with some help of our game hero and the Blades gang, she defeats Regulators, the so-called “police force” of a post-nuclear Los Angeles.

whichever the story may be, however, I’ve changed my approach completely. a complete turn around. too early to take big formats. it’s also a bit useless since we rely on more complex painting methods when it comes to SVGA graphics and hi-res VGA modes. forget it. now I’m trying to focus on face anatomy, let it then be the object and the result of my studies so far from now on. the piece no longer portrays a complete pose, we have (just) a talking head instead. BTW, do you know those?

http://fallout.gram.pl/index.php?act=pokaz&id=16

and the one most interesting for us here:

Click!

so. . . my previous work (no longer continued but I may get back to it some day and then utilize the critique given before):



and the current progress (320*256px, 32 colors):


http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/33198.htm

C&C *highly* appreciated! fanx! fanx! fanx!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:59:36 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: [wip] RAZOR, LEADER OF THE BLADES (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 02:40:03 am
It's like every critique I make on here this week I have to remake :'(. (My critique was a post that got nuked yesterday or whenever)

Anyway,
arms are too short, base of the wrists line up with the crotch when arms are dangley.
Chest and neck area is shaded weird. Mostly the weird splotches of light below the (our) right breast and the breasts themselves don't really have shape. The collar bone or whatever it is is way too defined and makes the girl look more manly.
The belly also looks like an indent rather than... a belly. You need to make it so that less shadow from the jacket hits it then the surrounding parts rather then more.

The head is coolio though.
Oh yes naked women are beautiful
But I like shrimps more haha ;)

Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: [wip] RAZOR, LEADER OF THE BLADES (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 01:47:05 pm
I think the reason she doesn't look very feminine is the pose. I don't know if you know about "action lines" but here is an example:



You've got her standing mostly straight and then bending forward at the top, with her arms bowed out. This is a very masculine pose; even "tough girls" don't stand like this. God in His grace and wisdom made ladies very curvy and it shows in the way they stand; they seldom slouch forward, tend not to spread their legs so much, and never ever bow out their arms like a gorilla unless they're trying to be funny; even the toughest female athletes will never be seen assuming this position. Note the line of action from feet to head tends to take an S-shape. Maybe it's more of an animator thing but I usually literally draw my action line when I sketch out the initial pose, it helps keep everything balanced and holds the whole thing together.

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:04:29 pm by ptoing »
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] RAZOR, LEADER OF THE BLADES (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 09:13:35 am
okay, Iím now into a commercial project thatís absorbing all my creative energy, so this one must wait a while. . .

thanks a lot guys for the words of critique, now I see what Iíve done wrong. . . she looks like a chimpanzee, really.  thatís an interesting and yes, helpful remark, Ben2theEdge! frankly, I knew little about those Ďaction linesí; this explains much! (now it looks like I know nothing about girls and girlish shapes, argh! ;)). the pose needs then more work deffo, if not a complete rearrangement.

the plan is: 24 colors for Razor and other 8 for some background; Iíve switched to gradient-scale to make the work easier (itís pretty hard with, like, 20 colors to keep the overall consistency on the right track). palette tweaking later.

CU!
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Offline skw

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look at the main post above!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:04:43 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Helm

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Excellent construction, i see no problems thus far. Go ahead and do more!

Offline miscdude

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Aside from some of the rather sharp edges in places like the nose and the lower right(her left) cheek, I think that theres too much mirroring going on here. Most notably on the eyes and the chin line. However, I see no anatomical errors, and it looks pretty nice. Can't wait to see the finished version.

Offline skw

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that's enough for now:



thank you, Helm, that's really stimulating! :)

miscdude: thanks! what about mirroring, you know, now it's just a sketch: I rather turn a blind eye to the details at this stage.

thanks also to Ar, for helping me out at the beginning.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:05:07 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Helm

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Be sure to model the neck with the same degree of SCIENCE, as necks are pretty interesting and difficult in volumes.

Offline skw

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right on! but the head first:



playing with planes. 5 colors in total.

CnC freely!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:05:20 pm by ptoing »
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Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #10 on: May 25, 2008, 12:06:54 am
über-slowly. . . I dunno, I just can't work faster. :/



cleaned the shit out; new color tones added.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:05:36 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Helm

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #11 on: May 25, 2008, 12:43:47 am
Man I am a sucker for strong, straight polish noses on women. She's very polish in some ways but dude, you can do more!!!!! Here comes a polish lips edit, enforced by the Commision On The Preserverance Of Polish Culture and Aesthetic!

--

This edit is pretty useless besides me enjoying sucha wonderful SCIENCE-heavy face model to give it a different ethnicity. If anything look at the slopes of the lighting on the forehead, and the neck! Your version is pretty Angelina Jolie-fied, which is as far as I can tell what you're directly going for, no accident and I can only commend you for it. I prefer polish angles than doughnut-faced women like Angelina (I want to bite her face, I mean, not kiss it) but each to his own.

Remember: the stronger you render the neck crevices, the more years you age the woman. Our versions both have her in her late 30s or more. Take more lines out == younger.


It's really refreshing to see people deal with their subject matter with such rigorous determination. Two polish thumbs up, Skurwy!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:05:51 pm by ptoing »

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #12 on: May 25, 2008, 03:48:42 pm
MAN, YOU'RE TRULY AWESOME!!! phuckin' A, Έλληνας, thanks SINCERELY! that's a wonderful punch! you know, and I was thinking people actually piss on this work, that they don't like it at all or something.

true, I adore Polish shapes, too, and see: I'm in such an advantageous position to have them all around! anyway, my women curves tolerance spectrum (or whichever I may call it) is rather large in scope; you know, I fancy kinda moon-faced, buxom, curvaceous, long-legged beauties. . . everything without exaggeration, however! Rubens is deffo too much! :)

Quote from: Helm
Your version is pretty Angelina Jolie-fied, which is as far as I can tell what you're directly going for, no accident and I can only commend you for it.

my little sister (a big fan of Ms A.) shares your views, but dude, I didn't even think of Angelina while doing that piece! I'll tell you more, while preparing the concept I was trying to avoid another Angelina again (my 'Monique' is quite of her lookalike, so one Angelina is well enough). . . to no avail! I was, rather, going through Ed Benes' artworks in search of some good reference, and, as usual, some Loomis' sketches. heheh, I love her lips anyway, that's it! ;)

Quote from: Helm
Remember: the stronger you render the neck crevices, the more years you age the woman. Our versions both have her in her late 30s or more. Take more lines out == younger.

well, it's quite new to me, I'll try adjusting the slopes to the age I think I'm aiming at then, say, 22-25. as to my eye, you made her, like, 5-10 years older, but I really please your edit: everything there look so goddamn coherent and those sharp edges give her more character. mine is rather slack in some aspects. I'll deffo take something out of it, no plain talking! according to purpose, the whole piece is going to be fully-rendered, *hope*fully in about 16-24 colors (other 8 for background), so all the shapes will be pleasantly softened in the end.

you know, recently a guy, a friend of Ar, was trying to persuade me into going thru some anthropology lectures. this is really interesting, all those ethnic differences and everything, but I somehow lack material. you know, something with fine examples, page by page, with detailed photographs and abundant descriptions. have you got any reading matter on this? what would you recommend?

the new edit in a day's time.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #13 on: May 25, 2008, 09:13:52 pm
I was thinking people actually piss on this work, that they don't like it at all or something.

Oh no not at all!!  This is excellent work.  People like me are not replying because there is nothing I have to add to this.  Your knowledge and determination toward rendering the female face are far more advanced than my own.  I am happy to watch it develop and learn as much as I can in the process :)  Keep up the good work!

Offline AlienQuark

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #14 on: May 25, 2008, 09:32:27 pm
That edit is all well and fine, except I think the lips have totally been overdone. The original by Skurwy was full, luscious and feminine, and I feel like Helm has made them more masculine looking with the smaller lower lip and... well that's all really.


I am truly jealous of your anatomical accuracy. I really fail at that, and it's cool to see how this piece has evolved. The portrait is a vast step up from the original picture for sure.

Hopefully you get more time to work on this after your commercial project is finished.

Offline Helm

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #15 on: May 26, 2008, 12:04:12 am
The only way I picked up on how polish faces are was by watching your viva polska music channel some years ago for a while. I seriously have no anthropological chart or anything, haha!

Be careful when you render, of oversoftening. Some edges, even on a realistic woman portrait, are quite useful some time. We'll talk about that when you get there.

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #16 on: May 26, 2008, 05:09:04 am
heheh, I'm really glad to hear that, guys! it means much to me as it makes me want to work more and yet better! thanks!

she's becoming beautiful now:



12 colors total atm. can't really call the edges softened yet. :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:06:11 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #17 on: May 26, 2008, 05:46:48 am
Like AdamAtomic, I'm certainly enjoying this-- That's far better anatomical structure than I could /hope/ to know. o:

I'm glad you kept the luscious lips. But she actually doesn't look like Angelina Jolie so much now-- She's a lot less baby-faced than her. Here, AJ's lips don't stop before corner-- They're bloated all the way, from the center of the lips, to the edge. Her eyes are more almond-shaped... her mole is on her forehead, not close to her lips. She also has cheeks, compared to AJ. :lol:

Sure, she /reminds/ AJ, but doesn't exactly look too much like her.

... Yes, I'm trying to bullshit through /somekind/ of useful comment.  :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:06:30 pm by ptoing »

Offline Willows

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #18 on: May 26, 2008, 06:04:13 am
Hopefully helm comes back in and persuades you to stick a couple hard edges in there somewhere to bring back that raw bad-assness she had at the beginning.

She's drifting away from her name at the mo.

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #19 on: May 26, 2008, 06:19:12 am
It's coming along great, Skurwy. Quite admirable!
Though the mole is kind of blurry now and looks a bit like an indent.

Here,
Dear god she's terrifying.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:13:05 pm by ptoing »
Oh yes naked women are beautiful
But I like shrimps more haha ;)

Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #20 on: May 26, 2008, 06:36:45 am
Dear god she's terrifying.

I actually jumped a little when I saw the picture at first, heh. XD I don't think she's terrifying... just very startling.

I don't think she needs /all/ these hard edges. A young, realistic face of a woman can only have so many angles before it softens out. I guess we'll have to see. I thought the cheek's smoothening looked perfect, but just as long as he [he?] keeps the... angular [?] shading constant.

Offline JonathanOfDrain

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #21 on: May 26, 2008, 12:07:17 pm
Shouldn't she have more of a mo-hawk? She had a nice green one in the game. Looks like he just shaved half of her head.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #22 on: May 26, 2008, 02:26:40 pm
When he's done with the soften pass it's easier to introduce some hard edges again in there if needed be rather than the other way around!

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #23 on: May 26, 2008, 02:33:02 pm
thanks for the replies, guys and gals! heheh, that link with Angelina. . . god, I'd *eat* her if I could! :P

Quote from: JonathanOfDrain
Shouldn't she have more of a mo-hawk? She had a nice green one in the game. Looks like he just shaved half of her head.
heheh, because that's exactly what she did! This is not Razor but Nicole. I posted that just to show you what I'd want the piece to look like. its mood, ambiance, you know? and now I think I want to achieve something more! ;)

Quote from: Willows
She's drifting away from her name at the mo.
well, what I want here is a young, vital and quite ambitious yet a bit of a sad-bad-bittersweet type of woman. I don't see any old girl nobody no longer wants to. . . gzzt!, you know what I'm saying? ;)

some hard edges will be applied, tho, to give her more character (she's a gang leader after all), I just loved that on the Helm's edit. nevertheless, that doesn't mean I'm not open for suggestions! if you have any, write!

the new|old step posted secretly before just next to the previous:

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:19:17 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Helm

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #24 on: May 26, 2008, 03:00:34 pm
*sigh* I like this lots and lots! if you want just a little bit more 'tude', give her a bit more angry eyebrows. Right now what you've got is an almost-blank-almost-smiley expression.

Offline Malor

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 05:12:13 pm
hmm you're using some low-contrast colors in a rather interesting way, to create very subtle and effective highlights and shadows.. nicely done. I agree with Helm, though, I think this gal needs a healthy dose of character and attitude, currently she's a bit bland, a little to calm and collected to be the leader of a gang. I have greatly enjoyed watching this thread, and expect to see more fantastic updates.
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I'm not going to pretend this is a small task either; certainly none of us here can claim to have accomplished it.  it's the realm of masters.  still, it's what we all have to try for.

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #26 on: May 26, 2008, 08:26:50 pm
sure, I see, then what about that?:



now sleep. . . :blind:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:25:38 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 08:36:59 pm
sure, I see, then what about that?:



now sleep. . . :blind:

No! Continue, slave! My eyes need more awesomness! Work! Work!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:27:33 pm by ptoing »

Offline Godslayer

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #28 on: May 26, 2008, 09:00:18 pm
I'm feeling the smoothness of the shadows. Also, nice forehead.
How long can the floor creak before it loses its voice?

Offline miscdude

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #29 on: May 26, 2008, 09:04:09 pm
This is definitely looking pretty awesome. Although, I have to agree with the people who said she's lacking attitude. If you're going that route, then to make this look better I think there should be more than just angrier eyebrows, although they're a good start. Maybe make one side of her mouth look like its pulling into a grin, move the cheek out slightly etc. Right now her eyes also look unfocused. Maybe if you lower them a bit(the iris, not the eye's positioning on the face.) Or something to that effect. It's really lookin great...Keep it up  ;D

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 06:55:29 am
well, yep, I think this *is* somehow connected with the calm lips arrangement. anyway, here's my new little step:



everzthing said before was taken into account, except the mouth (for now).

we need some gif illustrating the process! done!





some extra things I found on chick websites (not pornsites! purely in the interests of learning, of course!):



Quote
The idea behind the classic shape for eyebrows is to frame your eyes with grace and symmetry. They draw attention to your eyes and make them sparkle without being over-bearing. [...] Beauty finds itself entwined with the science of symmetrical geometry [...] but the math is pretty simple, so don’t worry. Obviously, one thing you want to have for great looking eyebrows is two that are shaped the same.



never know when it might come handy!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:28:08 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 07:21:50 pm
... I'm a chick and I don't understand that.

Owell. It might really come in handy. You still keeping the marking on her cheek? I loved that--

Offline Presley

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #32 on: May 27, 2008, 07:50:18 pm
I really love this piece, especially the newest pallete change. The way you progress with the portrait is very interesting, but certainly very effective.

I think you might be able to provoke some emotion from her by curling the lips upward in a very mild smile and add some stress to her eyes (wrinkles around the eyes, bring the inner eyebrows down; lines above the eyebrows, forehead etc.) to give her eyes more emotion than the passive stare she's current wearing.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #33 on: May 27, 2008, 09:23:39 pm
Her corneas look way too square to me, too much AA there maybe?  Also they are copy-pasted which I find slightly odd...

Offline skw

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #34 on: May 27, 2008, 10:33:18 pm
thanks!



23 colors atm, keeping an empty slot by now.

slow.

Quote from: AdamAtomic
Her corneas look way too square to me, too much AA there maybe?  Also they are copy-pasted which I find slightly odd...
the whole eye was copy-pasted just to speed up the process. it must-a slipped my attention but I'll fix that, thanks.

thanks Presley, I'm about to do something with it.

Quote from: Anything!
You still keeping the marking on her cheek? I loved that--
sure I am but haven't yet thought of its design, you know, this is going to be something of a five razors tattoo. I didn't even started shaping her right cheek.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:29:48 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #35 on: May 28, 2008, 01:55:23 am
The color choice is really striking, but perhaps a bit too gold? I mean, it all comes down to color conditions, but perhaps the edge tint towards yellow could move in a different direction. Experiment.

The blue-green is pretty wonderful as a secondary color, though. Will be useful for rendering the jacket too.

This is a pretty inspirining piece of work, and foremost, process. Keep it up and it's getting featured. This sort of stuff is why Pixelation exists.

More bits and pieces of critique:

* Right side (ours) of the face, where the shadow of the cheek eases into the side of the nose, I think in that little gradient, you're neglecting that the nose is pretty much pyramid-shaped, so it has a \ surface there that both catches a bit more light, and even if it doesn't, really does not just gradient like a curved surface into darkness like you've got it going right now. If I am not being clear shout at me and I will do an edit.

* That mole is probably too blurry. Again, it depends on 'photography fidelity' and you can do whatever you feel like, but I'd personally sharpen that detail up a bit.

* some of the buffer shades for the highlights where you've got them all circly and rounded at the ends, perhaps it's time to start introducing just a bit more angle in there. Perhaps it's me.

* I think the expression is determination now, is that what you want? If so, good.

* Will you dither this at the end? If so, that'll be a massive stage so be prepared. And try not to lose plane distinction by oversoftening with the dithers.

* I'd suggest you start going from generic to specific in the jacket here too, just so one part of the piece doesn't overdevelop over another and they end up disagreeing.

* Nice lip highlight


As a sidenote, think about how different this is and how much you're learning through the SCIENTIFIC!!!!1 process as opposed to copying a photo like the oldschool demoscene would do. Think about why they got stuck where they were for 15 years and where you'll be with the analytical approach in 15 years. Really inspiring.


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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #36 on: May 28, 2008, 05:26:33 pm
thanks, those were really felicitous points!

Quote from: Helm
The color choice is really striking, but perhaps a bit too gold? I mean, it all comes down to color conditions, but perhaps the edge tint towards yellow could move in a different direction. Experiment.
I’m doing what I can but *can’t* get anything more convenient. it all becomes either too bland or too saturated. I remember once you were enforcing your pieces with some color theories and I'm really curious how would you manage it. an edit maybe?

Quote from: Helm
The blue-green is pretty wonderful as a secondary color, though. Will be useful for rendering the jacket too.
true. for the tattoo, too. (wow, alliteration!)

Quote from: Helm
This is a pretty inspirining piece of work, and foremost, process. Keep it up and it's getting featured. This sort of stuff is why Pixelation exists.
I’d be honored!

Quote from: Helm
* Right side (ours) of the face, where the shadow of the cheek eases into the side of the nose, I think in that little gradient, you're neglecting that the nose is pretty much pyramid-shaped, so it has a \ surface there that both catches a bit more light, and even if it doesn't, really does not just gradient like a curved surface into darkness like you've got it going right now. If I am not being clear shout at me and I will do an edit.
yea, I prolly got it, you think that’s ok now?

Quote from: Helm
* I think the expression is determination now, is that what you want? If so, good.
yes, I think it suits her fine.

Quote from: Helm
* Will you dither this at the end? If so, that'll be a massive stage so be prepared. And try not to lose plane distinction by oversoftening with the dithers.
well, frankly? I don’t really know. I remember some of, say, pkmays’ pieces being so subtle with no dithering at all on them that I ain’t convinced. now, it somewhat has characteristics of a sculpture and I really like it that way. on the other hand however, I love that mixed and effective dithering technique that you’re using, something derived from Dan Malone’s artworks, I think. sure, that would be a big deal and I’m in a big f-ing fear of it. I’m really in between.


« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:30:11 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #37 on: May 28, 2008, 07:25:36 pm
This is coming along REALLY nicely. No really big crits from me apart from colours being a bit too washed out for my taste, so I made an edit.



I also liked the old jacket collar better :(

Looking forward to more updates on this.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:30:23 pm by ptoing »

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #38 on: May 29, 2008, 12:42:28 am
This isn't really supposed to be a palette edit, but I agree that it looks washed out. One thing I noticed is that her face seems to wide because of the way you've shaded the sides. Surfaces angled away from the light source should be darker. I also made her nose cast a bit more of a shadow. I'm not a fan of the angular shading, but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as it's accurate.



Otherwise loving how it's coming along.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:30:40 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #39 on: May 29, 2008, 12:45:53 am
more saturation certainly seems more fitting to the subject matter. However Arachne's edit I think pushed the model off to looking more like a dude than a girl in the mouth area. Also Skurwy, I read somewhere that women have lower scalps than men, do you think that's accurate? If so, I think that's a male hairline you have there, try to take it down some  5 pixels or so? Edits forthcoming! Keep at it!

I like the new jacket more, for what it's worth!

Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #40 on: May 29, 2008, 06:41:37 am
I 'unno, I really liked the old saturation-- if Skurwy need saturate it, I don't think it should be so deeply, like that.

More like this... but then again, I'm a loser. Maybe even /this/ is too saturated. :B



And yeah, I read that too, actually. I don't want to risk doing it myself, but you should definitely try lowering the hairline. Now that the attention is brought to the hairline... it reminds me slightly of a balding man. Funny how you don't notice things until they're point out. o__o;;
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:31:23 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #41 on: May 29, 2008, 06:47:39 am
Hairline actually looks right to me ???
See:

Distance between the hairline and the eyebrow is just about equal to the distance from the eyebrow to the tip of the nose.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:33:18 pm by ptoing »
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Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #42 on: May 29, 2008, 07:29:07 am
Perhaps it's the /shape/ of the hairline... It still reminds me of a balding man. D:
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 10:38:54 am by Anything! »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #43 on: May 29, 2008, 02:25:08 pm
yeah, if so, it all comes to the shape of the hairline, I guess. on women it seems to be less curved and rather falls in a straight line. heheh, Sherman, that pic is BLAH! yuck! anyway, look at these pictures below. some of them do have visible hairlines and if measured, the distance from the hairline to the eyebrow line appears more or less equal to the eyebrows-nose segment. therefo', I'm kinda puzzled right now: Helm, Anything!: where did you find that info?



of all those edits, I like Anything's the most. maybe it's a bit too saturated, but it's okay. anyway, thanks for the rest! ptoing: there's a big shift from bland and bright to dark and contrastive colors on yours, too big IMO; Arachne seems closer but still, some of the facial features on her edit look much more manly and are over-sharpened (as for my tastes), I like the way you put highlights on the nose, tho!

an edit tomorrow prolly, no time today.

PS: and one more thing: I *don't* fancy bald or close-cut women! ;)

cheerio!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:34:13 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #44 on: May 29, 2008, 04:29:04 pm
Yup, mine was a 1 minute job where I only edited the darker range of the colours. Anyway I think it shows that it helps with adding depth.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Anything!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #45 on: May 29, 2008, 08:18:03 pm
A... drawing book, I think. It was a long time ago, when I first began to draw. God knows when that was.  :)

So yeah. I picked up that book again some two years ago. Yeah, I liked the way it was de-saturated, but my edit kind of made it seem like a bronze statue...? Sorta? XD

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #46 on: May 29, 2008, 08:50:01 pm
well, it seems that a lower hairline makes a woman more feminine. that's what our Razor lacks and suffers from since the very beginning. then lowering it some few pixels won't hurt her.

Quote from: ptoing
Anyway I think it shows that it helps with adding depth.
that's for def sure!
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #47 on: May 30, 2008, 01:03:52 am
Perhaps less of the cro-magnon eyebrow effect (not that yours is extreme atall, I just lack the terms for that particular area) would make her more feminine, as all references you've just shown merely hint at a protrusion at best.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #48 on: May 30, 2008, 01:44:27 am
Willows: candidly, I have no clue of what cro-magnon eyebrow effect can be.



Xelados: yes, I'm going to do that, what you see now is merely a crude blot painting sketch.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:35:22 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #49 on: May 30, 2008, 01:55:04 am
 was just going to suggest that the brow is what does it for me, and the chiseling of the skull, although the lower hairlines for women does sound familiar.  Still, look at all those smooth-headed women!  So round!  I know this is anatomy practice and therefor relies a lot on the skeleton BUT she could be a lot softer for a womanly look.  And less of a cavity in the temple, we do have some fat there and it's just not "feminine" to have such sharp turns of the planes.  Mostly though i think it's the region between the eyebrows where you've got that real "shelf" - you can keep the scowl but lighten up the bit underneath it i think for more womanness

about the new post - Cro-magnons were actually the first people to look like us - with a full forehead and shallow eyes.  What he probably meant was Neanderthal-like (who, though human, featured deeply set eyes and an often recessed forehead, which made the brow even more prominent).  Keep in mind though that prehistoric model kits are almost never accurate :P.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #50 on: May 30, 2008, 03:34:09 am
Willows: candidly, I have no clue of what cro-magnon eyebrow effect can be.
Big eyebrow ridge.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #51 on: May 30, 2008, 04:30:53 am
What they said!

 a Big eyebrow ridge!

My mistake on the incorrect reference, I did in fact mean neanderthal, though you can find some cro-magnon references that feature the prominent brow I was alluding to :D

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #52 on: May 30, 2008, 02:33:55 pm
heheh, alright; thanks! done what said so far except the palette mod (will be applied with the next edit):

>>> >>> hmm?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:36:29 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #53 on: May 30, 2008, 06:25:11 pm
You kinda lost the skin there. It needs some trademark skin colors in there somewhere, I think.

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:37:45 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #54 on: May 30, 2008, 09:43:47 pm
She probably lost her toughness here, but I tried to make her more womanly.

-> rounder wider chin + rounder eyes + lower/sharper cheekbones (goes lower from nose too) + rounder nose with smaller on sides + much more stretched lips + eyebrows
-> raised chin and jaw too
-> no ADAM's APPLE!



Anyways, I love how this piece of yours looks!  :y:

[edit] posted incomplete edit, now complete one
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:37:57 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #55 on: May 31, 2008, 07:43:15 am
I should mention the colors in your version look a lot better on my desktop computer then on the laptop...
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #56 on: June 02, 2008, 10:59:38 pm
many many thanks buloght!!1 that's wonderful, you put such a great deal of womanness in her! beautiful! I'm going to include it into the progress .gif if you don't mind.

Quote from: Sherman Gill
I should mention the colors in your version look a lot better on my desktop computer then on the laptop...
I work on a laptop with gamma set at Windows default (γ=2.20); on desktop it could be γ~3.00 so darker.

anyway, I'm going with the new, better palette:





look at this btw:



DOH!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:38:31 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #57 on: June 03, 2008, 03:43:21 am


i've seen worse.  Sorry for the OT.

PS "womanness" actually is not a word, womanliness =  :y:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:40:00 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #58 on: June 04, 2008, 01:50:45 am
The lengthened lips look incredible.  :y: :)

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #59 on: June 04, 2008, 04:51:38 pm
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:40:12 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #60 on: June 04, 2008, 04:54:21 pm
I think you should try a less stylized direction with the shaved head part, a much, much subtler texture. You've got an 'uncanny valley' effect going on, never forget that when you're drawing something realistic in one part, if the next part in the same picture is done with less SCIENCE!! it sticks out very much.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #61 on: June 04, 2008, 05:55:04 pm
wawa, what's up with the 45 degree neck shadow?  I agree with helm on this one - you've come too far towards realism to push it the other way without looking inconsistent or - worse - without purpose.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #62 on: June 04, 2008, 05:55:26 pm
I don't agree on the uncanny valley thing here, that needs more oddness to apply. Though I am not a massive fan of the shaved bit either, and agree that a more subtle texture would be better.
Also not a fan of 'lol demoscene stye texture everything' on the right side. If you do that make sure it does not distract. Atm it really pulls the viewers eye in a bad way and does distract from her face.
I like where this is going though. Very good pixelling so far.

Edit: Hah, just saw that 45 degree neckshadow as well, that needs to change. Define the form of the neck with the shadow :o
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 06:06:38 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #63 on: June 05, 2008, 08:10:33 am
thanks for the replies guys,

p(re)-s: Nathan, womanliness: you know, I'm studying English philology for nearly 2 years and couldn't even find the right noun for that, so thanks. :)

o-okay, I see what you mean but look: I'm not a big fan of the shaved part either . . . and, what's worse, have not a *slightest* clue of how to combine it with the surrounding hair area. but what can I do? I don't know, maybe I make her wearing a leather biker cap? that in vein of Lady Blackhawk? hmm . . . :hehe:

what about the background texture, I'm just testing various rust and rusty metal patterns there and this one is just me being carried away. I think the Confederate Flag instead would fit the space perfectly. :)

Quote from: ptoing
. . . that 45 degree neckshadow . . . needs to change. Define the form of the neck with the shadow :o

yeah, heheh, will be done!

thanks once more!
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #64 on: June 05, 2008, 08:45:08 am
Quote
but what can I do? I don't know, maybe I make her wearing a leather biker cap?

What you can and should do is not run away from the challenge. Look at reference of how shaved heads work, shrink the reference down to the size you're working on, sharpen them with a filter a bit and see what sort of pattern emerges that you can use. If you want I'll try an eding, but I'm certain you can do it. Thirding the neck shadow and seconding the background detailmess. If it were info, it would be okay. If you were drawing something like a crashed airplane or an old truch behind her I wouldn't mind the detail, but right now it's like ptoing said, detail for detail's sake, demoscene style. You're not trying to win a demoscene compo here, right? :P No need to dazzle with too much detail in our face, make every pixel count.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #65 on: June 05, 2008, 09:25:37 am
Quote
Quote
but what can I do? I don't know, maybe I make her wearing a leather biker cap?
What you can and should do is not run away from the challenge.
I second that!!! in fact i was about to say it, damn you Helm!
a very quick dirty.

make the hairline look more natural and the division between the shaved and 'haired' area of the head will look more appropriate.*
You lost a great sense of volume when you texturerd the hair, when texturing it is important not to lose sight of the big picture. What you had made it nearly look like her brains were showing.
Yeah just a repeat on the neck lighting comments.*
Also something about the area above her left (on our right) eye seemed a little puffy, not sure if i fixed it, wasn't a big deal.
For some reason I felt a need to accentuate the face jewlery. I think they might stand out a little more due to metals high contrast. But what you had isn't really that off.

*: Careful with strong solid lines in creating faces with pixel art. Because of the grid like nature of the medium it is very easy to over do it. I see that you are wanting to create a fairly powerful look (this is particularly evident with the nose) and by all means stark divisions of areas is the way to go, however the combination of this and pixel the pixel art medium can make you over compensate for what should come fairly naturally.

Good stuff so far, very, very cool looking. Also she reminds me a little of Jennifer Morrison from house for some reason.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:40:42 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #66 on: June 05, 2008, 10:12:05 am
nice edit zeid!!  however her hair is dark and would therefore be a little bit grey on top.  see: Click!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:41:48 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #67 on: June 05, 2008, 04:04:36 pm
Absolutely love watching the progress on this!

A couple of references for lips and lip highlights, though. I think you've mostly fabricated the highlight on the top lip. In reality it seems to highlight at the peak of the lips (the little u-shaped indent beneath the nose) and fade into the rest of the face elsewhere.

I support my claims with evidence!

Click!
Clack!
Cluck!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:46:06 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #68 on: June 05, 2008, 09:59:53 pm
alright, thanks! good edit, zeid! everything said so far has been successfully utilized!!1 :yay:



enough of mannerism. heheh, if i were to win a compo I'd make her naked, busty and wielding some fake fantasy sword. ;p

PS: actually, there are two 'compo' projects down the line, a little more ambitious than the regular nakedtitsbareass stuff. Helm, I'll catch up with you on MSN when I get something started (haven't been there for ages!) to talk over some things.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:46:39 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #69 on: June 06, 2008, 07:06:32 am
GREAT! This is much better! I think that line of separation between shaved and hair is a bit too clean but that's just me. It could also use some of the non-skin tones.
The neck shadow looks better. This is my favorite thread on pixelation right now. Totally worth featuring when it's done... I hope.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #70 on: June 06, 2008, 07:01:38 pm
enough of mannerism.

OT, but what has mannerism got to do with this?  if that was your goal, we'd have needed to take this in a VERY different direction >.<
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #71 on: June 06, 2008, 11:14:01 pm
np,

no, no, I didn't mean Mannerism (cap.), but *--gzzt!* artificial exaggerated or affected style adopted to impress others . . . or something.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #72 on: June 07, 2008, 01:51:07 am
bombast?

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #73 on: June 07, 2008, 10:46:21 pm
JonathanOfDrain: forgot to say I'm really glad to hear your words, thanks, I also made a slight alteration in the shaved/hair line area:



the hair and the right side of the jacket (ours) ain't complete yet. now I'm slowly moving on with the background: although I want to keep that kinda-messy-sketchy-painting-like style, the flag as well as the cityscape will be FULLYRENDERED OFCOURSE, whatever it may mean. ;)



word up!
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #74 on: June 08, 2008, 11:30:03 pm
almost complete.

any critique/suggestions before I make the final touch?



two brand-new (and pretty cool!) Polish comic issues for the one who's able to read all the encrypted tag-fitti messages! (impossible!;p)
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #75 on: June 08, 2008, 11:50:28 pm
Looks like this will turn out really awesome. ;D

I'm not sure how much is just unfinished, but I'll tell you what I see. I think the neck area looks flat, especially the collar bones. Stronger highlights like on the face would help. I think the buildings in the background need to be faded out more. I think it's the dark shadows that make them look like they're a part of the wall behind her. What is the flag supposed to be made of? I think the folds?, the transition between light and dark, need to be softer for it to look like cloth. Her ear looks a bit strange, too. Is she getting a highlight on her cheek? The green area is still skin, right?

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #76 on: June 09, 2008, 12:41:13 am
Is her hair going to be very flat down like that? D:

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #77 on: June 09, 2008, 02:33:44 am
Arachne : thanks! you know, there won't be much progress from this point. I think I've already achieved what I'd wanted to achieve and what came out is fairly advanced when I take my skill scale into consideration. now need to finish it and move on! that left side background (the 'cityscape') is meant to be something keeping with the original Fallout-poster-style: think of an old 'prewar-era' postcard, desaturated and bleak: that's it. oh, the flag is made of linen . . . which is quite hard and gets a bit paper-like when it's wet. I'll soften the folds a little, though, and definitely work some more on the neck. tomorrow.

Anything! : well such a technique may be aesthetically ill, but I've decided that some parts should be left untouched. like hair . . . as well as e.g. the right-bottom corner . . . I'd rather it be plain just as it is right now. I tell you, I'm already spending too much time on it and don't want to overdo things or screw something up. :)

edit
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 02:39:29 am by Skurwy »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #78 on: June 09, 2008, 05:15:20 am
havent had the luxury to follow this thread, but considering the latest update, I would have to mention that the atmosphere you have in it is very red orange looking, and thus im confused why she would have blue shadows..

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #79 on: June 09, 2008, 09:49:26 am
Broken wall behind her on the left: the edges where it' broken, give it some 3d quality with the broken rocks, not just a contour, the wall seems paper thin like this. A deep crack on the wall also might help signify it as such because the too much graffiti right now seems like pixel scribbling (like hidden thanks on a demoscene pic, heh!) more than graffiti.

Neck needs defined muscles to the side of the trachea, at least a bit more if she's physically powerful and worked out.

Buildings: bite the bullet and look at Appleseed/Akira ruined building pictures (or real ruined buildings if you can find any) because your abstraction lacks SCIENCE as it is and they look too wobly, soft, and not 3d. If you're going to put it in a picture with lots of SCIENCE, be prepared to do the SCIENCE workout for them, no turning back now. This is the last 5% of work that is super-tiring, but do wrap it up with strength and polish honor.

I don't think the blue shadows are an issue, but do try a red-tinted shadow too to show us how it'd look!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #80 on: June 09, 2008, 07:43:49 pm
Really awesome. The kind of piece that makes me feel we're at the demoscene level. Just a feeling though :p

hm...just one small thing, I think the way you lit her jacket makes her look unnaturally flat. Why is all the light focused on the shoulder? I think the light should fall more on the breast area considering the light source

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #81 on: June 10, 2008, 04:27:19 am
There seems to be alot more canvas on her right side and her right shoulder seems wider than the left. Shading on heart seems strange. The flag doesn't seem like a flag to me. I thought it was painted columns. Maybe consider having shadows and highlights at the torn edges. Excellent piece, the eyes are great  :o

edit: 45 degree lines (for highlights on hair) don't do it for me, meh.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #82 on: June 10, 2008, 05:36:40 am
Major dislike for the "eX" written on her cheek.  Looks rough and sloppy to me.  Everything else is gorgeous.  Second the votes for SCIENCE buildings!!  Awesome job so far man, you are almost there!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #83 on: June 10, 2008, 11:02:30 pm
I dont know how much this helps but the neck shadows are very convoluted and dont show much of any form at all. I think you got carried away making nice pretty and smooth transitions, which you did a very good job of. Even though to keep her womanness (lol) intact with softer features I think the cast shadow on her neck should be more solid.

I also think that you should make the shaved hair a bit darker( more grey).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:48:05 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #84 on: June 11, 2008, 08:59:08 pm
a few little additions to Ryumaru's edit:
>>>
+ I thinned the head a little. I feel it is more aesthetically pleasing, that could just be my opinion though. It might kill some of the strength portrayed from the larger jaw line.
+ I enlarged the side burn a little I think the transition is a bit better and it eludes a better sense of depth.
+ I brought out the eyelids a little more. The dark shades before gave a near cavernous appearance, I think this remedies that look.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:48:24 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #85 on: June 11, 2008, 10:13:01 pm
One thing's been bothering me about this is the tattoo (?) on her right cheek seems to be sitting flat on the image rather than following the curves of her face. All else rocks!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #86 on: June 11, 2008, 11:14:53 pm


An edit more in line with zeids one/ryumaru, trying to keep her masculine look even though a more feminine bone structure. (as of the original one)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:48:54 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #87 on: June 11, 2008, 11:32:18 pm
completely different woman now though, perhaps too late in the game for that?  :ouch:

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #88 on: June 12, 2008, 01:07:29 am
sure.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!

now when I'm looking at the paintovers, I see how flat the part on the left was. well, it's not resembling an old and cheap sci-fi book cover any more. . . hopefully the bullet haven't been dipped in cyanide and I withstood this trial. the scars are not yet healed tho and this is pretty much the only thing which is not done yet. you know, it's damn hard to render those buildings having like 4-5 colors to do so, but I hope you like it even tho it's not complete. the idea was based on the original Fallout intro: WATCH!.

here comes SCIENCE™ applied to the wasteland portrayal!!:



let's then sum up what I have already done:

  • almost crashed my car yesterday.
  • a new, more 'Fallouty' palette, that is, the previous one mixed with some tones sampled from a random Fallout image. green shadows are nice.
  • the eye(lid)s and sideburns. I think the shape of the head is alright, so no need to thin it more. I like it on your edit tho, zeid.
  • the neck (collarbones and the windpipe area) sector altered, altho not that much.
  • now I smoke more than a pack a day.
  • the ear modified a bit (ears are my Achilles' heel when it comes to drawing, will need to concentrate on that much more).
  • I like the jacket as it is so no changes there (if you cut the image in two, you'll get two different faces kinda differently clad, that what I was aiming at!), anyway thanks for pointing things out!
  • no problem with the flag as well, the folds slightly smoothed.
  • other slight improvements on the tattoos (yes the one on the cheek is still skin) + a new little cheek highlight (now free of that dirty 'B' & 'X'-crossed razors symbols).

pretty much everything. the next step will be probably the ultimate as well.

edit: gah, just noticed the neck is really screwed up. . . damn, I'll put my brushes on it tomorrow. I'm also not sure about the smeared highlight on the forehead.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:50:36 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #89 on: June 12, 2008, 03:51:57 am
Absolutely Fing great man.  I think its time this bad boy girl was featured!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #90 on: June 12, 2008, 06:49:06 am
Could the earing really hang like that?  i think from this perspective we would only see the side view of it.

i know its a nice feature and all but you've put so much thought into the rest of the piece, perhaps just look up a few refs...

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #91 on: June 12, 2008, 07:04:55 am
yep, but that's the only *dynamic* feature in the picture: it somehow reminds us that she's not a stone statue but a living human. plus its pretty important as a symbol.
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #92 on: June 12, 2008, 10:17:07 am
edit pending. Hang on.



Tell me if you do not understand the reason for any of my alterations.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:50:54 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #93 on: June 12, 2008, 01:35:41 pm
hmm, I guess I get everything, ta-ta! heheh, I'm also going to keep that YUS tag on the wall.

thou shalt never belittle the power of SCIENCE!

just while I'm processing with the new thing, could you please post the right Amiga 4096 colors palette chart in here? I couldn't find any. anyone?

this is what came out after messing with Deluxe Paint set (just for kicks), pretty funny:

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:51:07 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #94 on: June 12, 2008, 05:29:46 pm
Do you use Promotion? In that case just go to Color>Modify Channel Bit Depth and set it to 4,4,4 unstretched.
Otherwise you can just make sure that your hexvalues are all either 00, 10, 20, 30, ...F0 or 00, 11, 22, 33, ...FF. The later would be stretched, so that white actually is white. I am not entirely sure about the unstretched bit. On a proper amiga monitor white looks pretty much white.


There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #95 on: June 13, 2008, 09:22:13 am
Do you use Promotion? In that case just go to Color>Modify Channel Bit Depth and set it to 4,4,4 unstretched.
Otherwise you can just make sure that your hexvalues are all either 00, 10, 20, 30, ...F0 or 00, 11, 22, 33, ...FF. The later would be stretched, so that white actually is white. I am not entirely sure about the unstretched bit. On a proper amiga monitor white looks pretty much white.
From a logical point of view, the way to go should be the "doubled bits" one for these two reasons:
a) probably, when the OCS/ECS chipsets were designed, the value F (= 15) was meant to indicate the full blown value for the channel, just like FF (255) today;
b) the AGA chipset (which has 24-bit capabilities), when set to 12-bit, automatically replicates the upper 4 bits into the lower 4 bits of each channel - basically, the Commodore engineers themselves gave us a definite hint ;)

And here's the resulting palette:



Edit: forgot to add a couple of words about the picture :P
Great job, man! A place in the feature chest would be deserved :y:
However, there are a few things that bug me.
The first is the neck and the shadow on it - I suggest you follow Ryumaru's and Helm's edits.
The second is the background, as I really cannot tell what's going on there: the shadow on the flag indicates that the woman is close to the wall, but then the broken wall at the left side seems a lot more distant, although, IMHO, the separation line between the two walls does not carry a strong sense of depth - BTW: are there two walls at all? ???
The last again involves the wall at the left: to me it looks too confused, noisy... even if it is distant, I wish it was a bit more readable.

saimo

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:51:22 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #96 on: June 13, 2008, 05:26:54 pm
you know, this is just a broken wall: some concrete, a burned wallpaper, punk tags and scratchings all put together into one texture. it simply *can't* be beautiful! :)

ptoing, ta for the advice: it makes the work a lot easier: yes, I'm using ProMotion, haven't known about it. saimo: that's what I've been searching for, great! fanx!

anyway, I gave up the idea of fitting the colors in the OCS palette. it really spoils the work at this point, I should have just thought about that earlier. I'm satisfied with the current one, though.

Helm, thanks again: that was a good edit: I've somehow trusted in *your* knowledge and was learning on it directly from the paintover. the great part of the neck pictures just isn't that detailed. what I also did is a little alteration to her right shoulder area (uneven before), nothing demanding really. thanks to sharprm for noticing.

here comes the ultimate (?) piece:


(320*256 * 8-bits, 32 colors)

oh, and in case somebody asks, not all edges of the flag patterns were 'aa-ed'. purposefully, to subtly signalize the flawed manufacture.

oh and um. . . I'd like to thank you *everyone* for your time, help and good critique! I'm totally sure without you I'd give up on it and end up not finishing the 4th or 5th step. you know, it's damn fine to have a place like that around, where you can truly learn things, try your patience and improve your skills. FOR REAL! I'm really glad to be a part of this community!

*gzzt!* okay, nuff ass-patting, heheh! see you then on Pixeljoint in a day or two!

PS: for those who were with me till the very (?) end of this, I have a gift in the form of a random chick picture! ;p for the sake of womanliness!



I'm not collecting men photos, though, so artificial kisses for our Pixelation women must be enough! :***

;p

see you around!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:52:00 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #97 on: June 13, 2008, 08:59:22 pm
I think the neck still needs work to make it look more cylindrical. The ear still looks a bit misshapen, and I don't see why the tattooed area would be any less reflective than the surrounding skin and it could also curve more around the cheek, probably even more than in this edit. I also think it looks odd that the outline of her hair is flat, while it's more wavy in front.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:52:19 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #98 on: June 13, 2008, 09:45:26 pm
sure thing! takk, takk, thanx!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #99 on: June 13, 2008, 11:05:27 pm
I am not sure the noaa in some parts of the flag works as intended. It just looks like sloppy work from your side.
Also the tattoo on the cheek needs better aa badly.

Otherwise, good stuff.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #100 on: June 13, 2008, 11:22:03 pm
you know, this is just a broken wall: some concrete, a burned wallpaper, punk tags and scratchings all put together into one texture. it simply *can't* be beautiful! :)
But it does not mean it can't be beautifully rendered (and you have the skills required) ;)
Anyway, I was not talking about beauty, but about readability... but maybe it's just me.

Quote
anyway, I gave up the idea of fitting the colors in the OCS palette. it really spoils the work at this point, I should have just thought about that earlier. I'm satisfied with the current one, though.
Simple remapping with the OCS palette gives this result:
.
It is not that bad, after all ::)

saimo
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:52:53 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #101 on: June 14, 2008, 07:55:32 am
I tried it but the problem is that some colors are lost in the remapping process. the one you posted has 31 different tones, the one I've tweaked out has only 30. it takes too much effort to change hex values manually with keeping to the overall consistency. also the atmosphere is somewhat lost at some points.

no worries! I'm taking part in this oldschool demoscene compo, so the chart will come handy anyway (it's perfect!).

thx, ptoing. it's fixed now:



I call it complete!

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:53:17 pm by ptoing »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #102 on: June 14, 2008, 09:11:12 am
This is quite possibly the worst piece of pixel art I have ever come across.

(well done :])

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #103 on: June 14, 2008, 10:50:21 am
This is beautiful. I enjoyed watching every single step and improvement done to this astonishing piece. This is probably my favourite piece here on pixelation right now :)

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #104 on: June 14, 2008, 12:26:15 pm
Good job. the thread will remain open for a few days so you get your just praise and then it'll be featured!

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #105 on: June 14, 2008, 08:07:59 pm
thank you. cool, I'm honored! may this be of use for our future generations! ;)
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #106 on: June 15, 2008, 02:14:43 am
[praise] Ossum. :D [/praise]

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #107 on: June 15, 2008, 03:28:18 am
I am totally yrs for the day.

It does look great. -admires-  ^-^

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #108 on: June 15, 2008, 09:52:44 pm
   Been watching this since the beginning, and I must admit, the anatomy is great in this piece. There's only one thing that bothers me in the piece, and it's not so much technical, as it is personal: the front profile view, to me, is boring. She seems so tame, and robotic(in this game, she's human or something, right?). She looks like a tough woman, and with that hair cut, she 'ought to be. I guess, it'd be nice if she had a scowl, or tight eye lids, to show her character a bit more, as now, her big doe eyes, seem so innocent.

PREPARE FOR LATE CRAP EDIT-MANIA!!



*no, she's not asian, she's squinting...bastards...

   I just just changed the eyes up a bit, with a little bit of squinting, and added some dramatic, long, punk eyelashes, while lowering the eye brows a bit. Also tried and tightening up the sides of the upper lip, so they don't look as if she recently was at a Collagen injection clinic. Also, may just be me, but Collar bones seem to have a slight indention underneath them sometimes, on some skinny people. On your final piece, the collar bone just seemed like a book edge, with little volume. Also, the cel-out on the top-left side of her head(her right, our left) didn't seem necessary.

To be honest, though, I'd guess a different pose would give greater character then the one you have now. You obviously have a great knack for anatomy, now time for you to work on bringing characters to life!

... come on, do it for the little people....


But yes, congrats if this gets featured, and absolutely wonderful job on this. You deserve the many ass pats given. I'll try to keep mine as friendly as possible, but beware, as my sexual inner beast can unleash itself at any moment.  :-*
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:53:38 pm by ptoing »
my back hurts...

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #109 on: June 15, 2008, 11:27:32 pm
whoah, thatís chill!

heheh, you know, since the very beginning it was to be *just* a boring anatomical study . . . but that it came out fairly better than I've ever planned makes it possibly my first *really* cutting-edge piece!

I think you gave her a lot of new shine (love the eyelashes and the new collarbone shading esp.), maybe a little too much, though! HELL, you're right! the original piece does look a bit boring! and now she looks like she could lunge at you and rape you at any moment! I love it! but since I called the piece complete, it's now pretty much complete. no further alterations will be done.

anyway, thanks for pointing that out! I will shoot dead flaws like that on my next pieces. or bury them alive. watch out!

Quote from: The B.O.B.
I'll try to keep mine as friendly as possible, but beware, as my sexual inner beast can unleash itself at any moment.  :-*
no, man, stop right there! aah, you're hurting me! hey, it ain't funny! NO, WAIT! STOP IT!!1 ARGH!!1one *bzzt!* *gzz-- *drops dead* :blind:

edit:

Quote from: Anything!
I am totally yrs for the day.
then what a damn pity you're living so far away! :ouch: ;p

thanks!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 11:15:19 am by Skurwy »
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #110 on: June 16, 2008, 01:06:13 pm
Also, she's jailbait and shouldn't be saying such things on the internet.  :-\ *prude*

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #111 on: June 16, 2008, 02:16:28 pm
hahaha
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #112 on: June 16, 2008, 03:19:38 pm
Okay so this whole thread has been awesome, really inspiring, I like seeing this kind of thoroughness and rigor applied to a piece of pixel art.

One thing's still throwing me though, and it's the background.  The wall behind her looks paper thin!  Or is the flag closer than the wall?  Is the rebar or mesh suposed to be part of that wall or further off?
Either way I just recommend using bigger chunks and making the wall look more volumetric (like you've done a great job showing depth on her face!)

Crude edit, lighting is probably not consistent:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:53:55 pm by ptoing »

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #113 on: June 16, 2008, 04:37:38 pm
good to see you here, Lackey! the edit is great, in fact the original concept was to be something relatively similar, but I didn't think about it afterwards.

yes, those rails are (or meant to be) further off the wall, and the flag: a little closer. well, I think this is a good lead for me as well as people trying to take something out of this thread. . . I hope they will consequently make things better than me. thanks, I will possibly have some chance to utilize your critique, but not in this piece. anyway, I don't want you to feel that your time was wasted.

you know, there's one rule I'm always trying to keep to: after I decide something is finished I'm not allowing myself to touch it any more, as the progress would lag endlessly. also, trying to learn on my mistakes I don't try to cover them . . . which is how I fight with perfectionism (or the bad side of it).

kudos!
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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #114 on: June 16, 2008, 07:20:49 pm
Also, she's jailbait and shouldn't be saying such things on the internet.  :-\ *prude*

I didn't say what for. I'm sure we have a misunderstanding here. <:

It's sad that this piece is finally complete, however. D: I'm sure that, if this lasted a longer time, it would've received even more critique and would've gone... um, /above/ its already-supreme status?

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Re: [wip] Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #115 on: June 17, 2008, 01:52:27 pm
One thing's still throwing me though, and it's the background.  The wall behind her looks paper thin!  Or is the flag closer than the wall?  Is the rebar or mesh suposed to be part of that wall or further off?
Either way I just recommend using bigger chunks and making the wall look more volumetric (like you've done a great job showing depth on her face!)

Crude edit, lighting is probably not consistent:

Thanks, Lackey! This addresses most of the issues I had with the background.

saimo
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 01:54:46 pm by ptoing »

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Re: Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #116 on: June 18, 2008, 05:41:37 am
I must agree that Lackey's background edit is just that much better. But either way fantastic work and i've learnt alot from watching this thread. : )

Congrats.

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Re: Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #117 on: June 28, 2008, 01:50:45 pm
whoah! sorry for bumping but I've forgotten to say THANKS! for the latest comments! :blind: good to hear this topic was helpful for you, heyy13.

hopefully the piece strikes #2 in the Monthly Top on Pixeljoint. yuppie-kay-yay!

so now I'm letting it rot away in peace.
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Re: Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

Reply #118 on: July 03, 2008, 05:01:33 pm
Lock and feature - soon.