AuthorTopic: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2  (Read 811635 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #860 on: January 09, 2009, 09:48:44 pm
Thanks for the critique. I didn't use any reference so what you're describing is entirely possible, I personally don't see it.

EDIT: For the record, here's some post-art referencing using a 3d model. Now, this doesn't address posture or comfort, but just on the level of relative sizes of limbs I think I did mostly alright

« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 10:16:04 pm by Helm »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #861 on: January 09, 2009, 10:36:39 pm
I think if there is little perspective (i.e. we are supposed to be pretty far away compared to me to my screen to her) then i think the edit borders on 'perfect' (that is, has solved detectable issues to a human point).

Quote
I did mostly alright
Didn't mean to sound like you didn't, I just have you in my book of people who generally like critique :).  The original is quite good, and though your edit makes a few changes that I would call beneficial, there's a good chance that any of my initial concerns were my preferences for wider hips and stronger legs butting up against your preference for wider shoulders and longer fingers :P
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #862 on: January 09, 2009, 10:48:12 pm
That's not an edit, just some postmortem reference, I don't intend to change the initial image, so significantly, at least.

About how much perspective applies: I usually go by emotional effect more than clinical reality, so for this image where she's relaxing and reading a book I keep the drastic angling to a minimum, as for me that sort of thing is best left for emotionally unsettling situations (since drastic perspective occurs at the corners of our eyes anyway and therefore anything with ANGLES feels off-balance and fleeting). So the positivist concern " how close are we to her? " is not a priority.

More than anything I get paranoid I'm artblind when people give me critique that I can't personally see. It's not that I'm fighting your critique just for the sake of it, I'm trying to realize what I am doing wrong so I can get better, but then if it's just a matter of preference on how humans are built then I have to defer to my tastes as the final arbiter and not yours. Of course I like the process of critique and I hold it responsible for me being reasonably skilled in anything today because I didn't start with any surplus of talent, but there's one thing to be told of glaring errors in your art to fix them and another to - because the other person knows you're open to critique - to get nitpicks that they would not have otherwise given you/do not break the image in any significant way/are just a matter of preference.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #863 on: January 10, 2009, 12:09:11 am
Oh I wasn't telling you to change the piece, or implying that you were going to - anything you learn from it is better applied to the future than to the past and we both know that.

then it would probably rest your mind a bit to know that when i looked at the piece i was distracted from the emotional content, which quite enjoy and would like to focus on, by the creeping feeling that something was not right, and that the nitpicks as you've called them were an attempt to justify that distraction, not the other way around.

As far as whether to give a critique, it is a fluid matter based on where a person is in their work and how much they would like to improve.  I did not mean to imply that the matter is trivial.  Someone who draws out of pure boredom and whimsy needs far less criticism than someone who has some stake in it, and someone who is less accomplished would do better to focus on the triumphs of a piece, rather than possible improvements.  It is because I would consider you to be the type that settles for "good enough" that I would voice concerns that I have, and I DO get a jarring feeling from the image.

I am open to the idea that that might stem either from personal preference OR from the image in fact being "broken," but the latter is still enough of a possibility that I wouldn't have wanted to leave the matter unaddressed.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #864 on: January 10, 2009, 12:26:40 am
Quote
then it would probably rest your mind a bit to know that when i looked at the piece i was distracted from the emotional content, which quite enjoy and would like to focus on, by the creeping feeling that something was not right, and that the nitpicks as you've called them were an attempt to justify that distraction, not the other way around.

Alright, I'll try to be even more conscious on the matter of relative sizes and especially the female middle build though I'm not certain how much more I can be without drowning in academic studies and/or poser references for everything (surely a fate worse than death). I appreciate you taking your time to discuss this.

I do settle for 'good enough' and I consider it a bit of a personal triumph to be able to develop this standard as well because in the past I used to hate everything I drew out of some misplaced perfectionism and now I no longer do. I draw it, I do as good as I can with the means I have available at the time, and I move on to the next thing I wish to make.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #865 on: January 10, 2009, 11:32:13 pm
Quote
then it would probably rest your mind a bit to know that when i looked at the piece i was distracted from the emotional content, which quite enjoy and would like to focus on, by the creeping feeling that something was not right, and that the nitpicks as you've called them were an attempt to justify that distraction, not the other way around.

Alright, I'll try to be even more conscious on the matter of relative sizes and especially the female middle build though I'm not certain how much more I can be without drowning in academic studies and/or poser references for everything (surely a fate worse than death). I appreciate you taking your time to discuss this.

I do settle for 'good enough' and I consider it a bit of a personal triumph to be able to develop this standard as well because in the past I used to hate everything I drew out of some misplaced perfectionism and now I no longer do. I draw it, I do as good as I can with the means I have available at the time, and I move on to the next thing I wish to make.

We have an epic pattern of miscommunication here.  You seem to think that I am promoting dry, lifeless academia and eternal frustration with your work.  I am glad that you are opposed to both, but wonder what I said that caused you to think I meant either.

it's not about studying book after chart to create a scientific human form, I'm talking about being aware of the entire and greater image such that you create a piece effortlessly, thoughtlessly even - that is free of harmful distractions.  it's quite the opposite of how you color my advice.  science is a logic which can sometimes be used to explain such distractions as they might occur.

'good enough' was ambiguously worded, but you've summed up the mindset I meant in your last sentence.  I was talking about the person who works below their CURRENT potential (not as good as they can do, but "good enough"), the person who has no dreams - the person I believe you not to be.

forgive the attempt to characterize, favorably or unfavorably as you see it.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #866 on: January 10, 2009, 11:50:41 pm
We don't have an epic pattern of miscommunication, relax. I was just extrapolating from what you said to the more severe directions it sometimes goes (I'm a severe type of person). I don't think you're promoting that I suffer with my art.

For me to work effortlessly when I construct, I am actually trying to achieve this and a necessary part of that process is just trusting my own flow even if it results to minor anatomical errors. They'll smooth themselves out to the point where they don't break the image eventually. I don't need to second-guess myself after I'm done with initial construction, I need to stick with it. That's how I've felt for some time now, and I for one think it's improving my work. Nitpickery is actually a problem, I've grown to find, after a specific time in ones artistic growth. Or to be more exact, it's good in the beginning when people want to see simple tricks that make their art a lot better, a problem in the middle of their growth (where I am) where just tweaking doesn't fix fundaments and again it's good at the end of ones artistic growth where everything is pretty good and they just want to fix the minor details left. I'm not in the beginning, and I'm certainly not in the end of that process so I'm trying to train myself to trust what I draw and to fix only what breaks an image and not go all OCD on minor things.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #867 on: January 11, 2009, 10:09:35 pm
just taking a wild chance here cause it's a character that's almost just completely generic with a spacesuit...but is that the EXILE guy Ptoing?

Offline ptoing

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #868 on: January 11, 2009, 11:55:34 pm
Did not have Exile in mind at all, but Helm thought it was Exile-ish as well.

poop:
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Willows

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #869 on: January 12, 2009, 03:40:27 am
I'm sorta kinda trying to find a way to put it into words, whilst avoiding sounding like a robot.

Helm, something usually feels somewhat broken or cold to me about your ink works. Perhaps this is the medium itself, or the lack of light and colour.. but something feels off every time and I've mostly kept my mouth shut about it because I've never been able to pinpoint it. Also, I figure it's multiple nitpicks moreso than one major error, so I haven't tried too hard to find it.

Not that your work is ever bad, I just don't necessarily find it as intruiging/appealing as some of the stylistic works.

I can talk in circles for hours trying to cover my own ass! Hopefully you get the message without being offended.


Is C&C welcome, unrequested, in the off-topic creativity thread, anyhow?


an' ptoing, your characters are comical and interesting as always!