Anatomy Practice

[Zizka]

Hello guys,

I'm trying to move away from cartoon and more towards realistic things.

Basically, I'd like to take this first draft and rework it continuously until I can improve no further.



I want to stick to the same size for the sprite but other than that I'd like it to look more realistic. I want this to be a learning experience in managing shape/form and anatomy.

I'd rather have cues on things to change than actual edits as I might end up relying too much on the actual edit and end up learning less. Thanks!

[MysteryMeat]

Well for starters, don't focus on tits yet. Instead, try to focus on the shapes for the ribcage, shoulders, and hips especially. Arms also, be prepared and MOST IMPORTANT, don't try to practice this stuff in pixelart. Don't make my mistake!

[32]

Find a reference!

General proportion stuff: head too big, shoulders too wide, hips too narrow, legs too long, arms too short, crotch too wide.

Definitely take mysterymeat's advice here and nix the boobs until you've got the ribcage figured out and especially the way the arms join to the chest as this plays heavily into the shape of the breasts. Your whole midsection is just a big cylinder, take a look at a reference there, it has a lot of dips and bulges. Same with the lower legs and the arms.

I'd recommend killing the outlines and the shading and breaking it down into basic shapes. Get a bunch of shades and then just block out each muscle group/major form. #1 tip for drawing the human body is there are ONLY convex lines.

EDIT: Legs too SHORT sorry, or more accurately legs out of proportion with torso.

[lachrymose]

Nix everything, skin, hair...etc. Anatomy starts with the skeleton. Build a proportional skeleton then come back.

[Achrileg]

Best advice would be learn to draw anatomy with a pencil first, study and read up on different aspects of the human body. All the knowledge will translate very well to pixel-art, but learning anatomy in pixel-art will just make your life miserable. Sure, pixel-art might be more fun or easy for you, but if you want to get better, start with the basics.

[MAVW]

the pixel art itself is ok, but it is clear that in order to improve you need to study more anatomy on paper first.
expanding a bit on what Achrileg said, start building a reference folder. Once you have your references start drawing them over and over, start with parts of the anatomy(eyes, legs, arms, chest...) because if you start your study drawing the whole body right off the bat you'll have a hard time learning all the nuances of each part.

[Zizka]

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't want to practice on paper at the moment. Sorry, I'd like to give this a shot first. Mostly because I want to practice my PA and anatomy at the same time. I hope you can still continue to give me feedback about this even if I continue to go the PA route.

I've drawn a skeleton using the same size at the original character as was suggested. If you think the skeleton is ok, I was thinking of building on top of it.



with background to make it easier to read:


The problem at this size will be defining the face which will certainly give me a run for my money.

[32]

I don't think there's anything wrong with practicing this stuff in pixel art inherently but you need to take the right approach. Which would be slow it down and focus on the forms before you go into any detailing.

All of the proportional issues from your original drawing persist in the skeleton. You need to fix those. Rib cages aren't ovals, look up some reference. What are the diagonal bones over the rib cage at the shoulder? Scapula don't look like that. Clavicles are not straight. The forearm has two bones. Bones bulge out at the joints.

Doing an anatomy study of the face at this resolution is kind of pointless, and definitely not the first thing I'd be worrying about. Make sure you're looking at female skeletons for reference. They have a much wider pelvis and narrower shoulders, generally.

[lachrymose]

Nice skeleton, unfortunately that was not what was asked for.

Your sprite is roughly 75 pixels long...Well I made it 75 pixels as it was close enough and for a reason you should get here soon.

The recognized realistic human male proportions state the human male is approximately 7.5 heads long and 2 heads wide. Of course we could get into idealistic and heroic proportions, but you stated realism so that is what I aimed for.
Which means for a 75 pixel long sprite we can divide that into 7 and one half sections. Note - I'm using the male proportions because the numbers match better and at this resolution it really doesn't matter.

That means you need to fit the whole skeleton within the bounds of the box I created for the given sprite lengths. Of course you can make it a bit wider/longer/shorter so long as you don't go to far with it.

So build your skeleton in the space provided.



Have fun 

[dpixel]

I know this is anime, but the rules still apply for proportions:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZwuVq-0M4
This guy is pretty good and has helped me out.

Plus developing a system and an understanding will allow you to create more interesting and dynamic poses.

And as 32 mentioned, find a reference.  << very important

A quick redraw using roughly the same heads height proportions results in an almost child-like form.  I even shrunk the head.

[Zizka]

You need to fix those. Rib cages aren't ovals, look up some reference. What are the diagonal bones over the rib cage at the shoulder? Scapula don't look like that. Clavicles are not straight. The forearm has two bones. Bones bulge out at the joints.

Ok, I tried to fix them by looking up a female skeleton, is it better?:


@lachrymose: I'll try your canevas.

@dpixel:

I know this is anime

It's definitely not meant to be anime, I hate that stuff. Owch!

Plus developing a system and an understanding will allow you to create more interesting and dynamic poses.

What do you mean a system? I don't understand.

EDIT: A new version based on the new practice I've done:

[Cyangmou]

females tend to be more bottom-heavy.

[dpixel]

Plus developing a system and an understanding will allow you to create more interesting and dynamic poses.

What do you mean a system? I don't understand.

It could be stick figures,  number of heads, shapes, etc.  The guy in the video had a system, which I think is pretty good at making things look right.
Even if you don't like anime, the proportions have to be correct or it won't look right.  The human anatomy is easy to make NOT look right.  Everyone sees it every day, so it's very familiar to people, and easy for people to see when something's not right. They might not know what's wrong.  Just that something is wrong. Drawing it from memory is quite hard without a system and or a lot of practice.  That's why to use a reference and practice.

[Zizka]

So I went ahead with dpixel's comment and checked a couple of books online about systems. I ended up paying more attention to Figure Drawing by Michael Hampton. He pretty much provides ways to build up body parts using basic shapes. While interesting, it didn't provide anything about the female body unfortunately.

Then I checked Figure Drawing for Artists by Steve Huston which was way too much about theory and not much about practice which was sort of pointless for me.

I then checked Andrew Loomis's books, drawing the head and hands more specifically. I don't know if it's a sexist thing but very little information is provided about women while men get most of the coverage. Anyways, I'll keep looking for some good source of info on women's anatomy.

[32]

That is true and unfortunate. I don't have any books to recommend but the anatomy is essentially the same barring proportional differences and the obvious. Even within genders you find a huge range of variance so it's more of a rule of thumb kind of thing, like wide hips LOOK more feminine so if you want the character to read that way make the hips wider. What you really want to be looking at is how the joints work and where the muscle groups/ fat deposits are and what they look like. Once you know how to draw them it's just a matter of pushing certain dimensions one way or the other to get the desired body type.

You can pretty much sum it up as feminine traits are smaller chest/narrower shoulders, wider hips, smaller hands and feet. Less muscle definition (due to higher average body fat percentage and the way fat deposits)

[Zizka]

Ah ok I see.



I'm really struggling with this to be honest. I like the challenge but it's definitely harder than anything I've ever worked on. I'm having trouble finding traction and getting started with the whole thing. Maybe I could focus on just one bone at a time instead of a whole skeleton just so I get started somewhere and take things one step at a time.

[0xDB]

It has already been written but I will write it again: One should really practice anatomy/basic proportions with pencil and paper.

Look at the numbers: Each time unit spent clicking with the mouse to place a pixel could just as well be a time unit spent placing a single stroke with the pencil. 5 to 10 strokes can make a full figure abstraction with realistic proportions(provided one practiced that sufficiently) while 5 to 10 pixels can not achieve that.

Practicing this with pixels is highly inefficient. Presuming it takes about an hour to pixel a sprite like that, one could have practiced the proportions 40 to 60 times during that hour with pencil and paper.

Practice with pencil and paper many times until the proportions are nailed down, then proceed with slower studies of simplified volumes and later(much later) details like muscles and landmarks.

Also, check Loomis again, he's also written "Figure Drawing For All It's Worth" which has female figure specifics and comparison charts between male/female anatomy.

And in the end, at a small size like this in pixels, the result will read better if you do not render surface/anatomy details at all, just abstract it into really simple volumes.

[32]

Studying all of the bones is an excellent idea and will definitely push you a long way.

I really think your main issue is the bobble head. It is throwing off your perception of the proportions of the upper body. Shrink it to about half the size (which would STILL be a bit big) and you might notice a lot of the issues pop out at you.

If you want to do a head study do it separately at a higher resolution. Doing a face at this resolution takes a pretty good knowledge of facial anatomy and the ability to squish that down into a few important clusters. That's something you'll be able to do AFTER you learn the anatomy not while you learn.

[Zizka]

About practicing with a pencil, I know that's what I should do. I just find no motivation to do so. It's like I don't know where to start and I therefore have no will to do so. I'm also used to the grid in pixel art so going free form feels weird. I know, I know, it's what I should do. Maybe if you guys could suggest some exercises instead of just: "practice with a pencil". I know it's the right thing to do but I don't know where to start and the whole thing feels huge and daunting.

Also, when I practice with a pencil I don't feel like I'm improving in any way so it feels like a waste of time. Anyways, judging from the progress I'm making in this pixel art endeavor, it's clear I have no choice to go back to the basics and work on my pencil so ok, I give in, I will do it.

I just want to know where I should start based on your opinions then I'll go ahead and do it.

I'd rather start with something simple and work my way up than go for realistic anatomy right from the get go.

[32]

Look into "gesture drawing." You can use a website like posemaniacs or countless others you'll find through google to get timed reference.

I guarantee you you'll have gotten a lot better at anatomy after an hour of that than you will after an hour of working on a pixel piece.

I'd suggest you keep working on this one on the side as motivation and if you feel like you're stuck and can't see where to go spend some time on paper until you've observed some things you can work into it.

Also grab every drawing implement you have available to you and try every one. I for one don't always love sketching with a standard pencil but I'll scribble with a gel pen for days.

[0xDB]

About practicing with a pencil, I know that's what I should do. I just find no motivation to do so. It's like I don't know where to start and I therefore have no will to do so. I'm also used to the grid in pixel art so going free form feels weird. I know, I know, it's what I should do. Maybe if you guys could suggest some exercises instead of just: "practice with a pencil". I know it's the right thing to do but I don't know where to start and the whole thing feels huge and daunting.

Also, when I practice with a pencil I don't feel like I'm improving in any way so it feels like a waste of time. Anyways, judging from the progress I'm making in this pixel art endeavor, it's clear I have no choice to go back to the basics and work on my pencil so ok, I give in, I will do it.

I just want to know where I should start based on your opinions then I'll go ahead and do it.

I'd rather start with something simple and work my way up than go for realistic anatomy right from the get go.

Well... that's because it IS huge and daunting. Anatomy is like one of the most involved topics to study, so don't expect to get good overnight. I recommend checking Stan Prokopenko's videos for a structured approach starting with "gesture" as 32 says:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtG4P3lq8RHGuMuprDarMz_Y9Fbw_d2ws

useful study tools/links:
https://line-of-action.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/
https://www.quickposes.com/en/gestures/random
http://www.onairvideo.com/croquis-cafe.html

[king_bobston]

Proko is great, like 0xDB already suggested. Drawing gestures can help you a lot to improve your figures poses!

Other than that I suggest drawing boxes and other really simple 3d forms to gain confidence and learn to think 3D (even if what you draw is 2D), ideally look around for objects around you to draw on paper.

You can then try to arrange simple forms like these to make figure dummies, like a ball or egg for the head, a cube for the torso, etc. There's a lot of possibilities here! (also this is construction, Hamptons book is really great in this category and you can apply what you learn from it to any kind of figure).

Also make simple stickman like figures to study the overall proportions and from there go to more details.

[Zizka]

Not sure why I suddenly stop receiving notifications for topics on pixelation. 

Anyway, I watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtG4P3lq8RHGuMuprDarMz_Y9Fbw_d2ws

My first reaction was: "Ok, again, too abstract and not practical enough but around 5:00 it gets more interesting (to me anyway).

So I took this picture of Michelle Ang:


So first: I need to draw a line that connect from the head to the toes. I don't know if I'm supposed to  draw the action curve from which foot exactly for one thing. So right away I'm stuck and don't know how to go from there. I feel this is too advanced for me.

Then I check mikeymegamega's video (dpixel's link). I don't like the idea of dividing everything in squares. I don't think that system is for me at all.

This is sort of what I was talking about when I said starting from somewhere. While Proko provides interesting ideas he doesn't give me enough information so that I can start practicing on my own and mikeymegamega's system doesn't appeal to me at all.

Anyways, I practiced drawing 3d shapes for about an hour today. Nothing convincing to show just yet (and it's not like looking at spheres is all that fascinating anyway). I'll keep on trying however.

[lachrymose]

Id pick another picture that is more dynamic if you are going to practice how ro find the line of action, use a dancer

[Seiseki]

Also, when I practice with a pencil I don't feel like I'm improving in any way so it feels like a waste of time.

Don't let feelings come in the way of improvement.
Or try to find a way to change how you feel.

Maybe it's because your not seeing the progress you're making, or you're not using a reference with which you can compare your progress, so you're just drawing blindly. Either way you need to be able to judge what is an improvement and what isn't.

If you just get over that initial obstacle of doing something you don't want to and start focusing on the goal of drawing good anatomy you'll soon start comparing your old and new drawings and you will see progress.

[Zizka]

@seiseki: Wise advice, I'll keep it to heart. Technically, there's no way to get worse by practicing anyway.

So I haven't found a system which I find appealing or which is explained in a way which is inclusive to me yet. So I'm going with the advice of building anatomy from basic shapes for now.

I'm practicing drawing shapes an hour a day. I could invest more time but I don't want to become fed up with it so I'm starting slow and consistent and see where it'll take me.

This, I think, is my best one so far:


I find it still lacks volume however. It still comes across flat to my eye but I don't know why! It's drawn 210 spheres but I'm still having trouble getting the depth across.

What do you think? I'm really, really, really interested to read why.

[eishiya]

Zizka, the lighting on the sphere is from the upper-front-left, but the shadow is directly to the side and rectangular, which is probably why the whole thing doesn't feel right to you.

[dpixel]

I'm practicing drawing shapes an hour a day. I could invest more time but I don't want to become fed up with it so I'm starting slow and consistent and see where it'll take me.

That's perfect! 

[Zizka]

Thanks for the encouragements!

Here's today's version:


It still lacks volume to my eyes however. It doesn't seem like it's "jumping" out of the sheet. Why is that? School me O Pencil Masters! 

I want my art to have volume dammit!   

[Seiseki]

You have to iterate and try things.
You need both curiosity and patience.

Others can help you for sure, but you'll reach the furthest when you keep trying and trying.

[Zizka]

I also did a new attempt at the woman:

[MysteryMeat]

Getting closer! Your arms are still way too skinny and flat, and you're treating the breasts like inflated balloons strapped to the chest.
Think of them sorta like a balloon filled with sand instead!
Here's a guide, by Iahfy:

And one on arms, by Brandon Mckinney:

http://img.scoop.it/M2Dy7zSEJg_1hR1SNUrB1zl72eJkfbmt4t8yenImKBVvK0kTmF0xjctABnaLJIm9
(a link, since it doesn't want to embed for whatever reason. Bleh.)


Note especially the shape breakdown in the upper middle, arms curve a bit and it's very noticeable when they lack that curve given how often we look our hands and forearms.

[dpixel]

Also keep in mind that the hips are generally the same width as the shoulders, if not bigger.

[skittlefuck]

Hi zizka,  I would really recommend that you go bigger with your current study. I feel like when you're learning fundamentals like anatomy, especially when using pixelart as your medium, you ought to go bigger. Right now I feel like when you're working at such a small scale, it becomes more about managing which pixel will symbolize a certain body part, and removes putting form into practice.

I think a good example of this is Ashcrimson, he has a massive thread on pj about his anatomy/sprite studies, but I feel like for the time he has been working on it not much has changed as I would have hoped (no hate to him ofc).

Even just upscaling by a little bit would make it less about managing each pixel- it makes it more about learning anatomy instead of learning how to pixel tiny sprites. If you do enjoy working at the size you currently are then keep on going!

quick edit to demonstrate.

[FelipeFS]

Hi, Zizka, I hope you are practicing with shapes.

I do these the same way I would do a drawing with pencil and paper. Learn the shapes of the body. Each part represented by a shape. I wouldn't recommend learning anatomy throught pixelart, though. Making pixelart involves knowing WHAT not to include in the pixelart, that is present in the real object, but it's too small or is too complext for the image resolution.

There are mediums for learning anatomy: book, youtube videos, photo references. Some are specific for drawing some not. For example, I have digital books of medical anatomy, and they are great when I want great detail about a specific region of the body. Books/magazines/tutorials specific for drawing are good too, expecially for beginners (like your case).

Keep going with the practicise and let us updated! 

[Zizka]

Much appreciation for all the comments. Really. Tell yourself you're really making a difference!

@dpixel: I'm not sure if hips are bigger than shoulders generally. I tried it with my version and it makes her look fat (which is fine but not what I'm looking for).

My reference (just for the boobs):


@mysterymeat: Your message made me check more references in order to better understand how boobs work so to speak. I think it's the best improvement on my last version.

@skittlefuck: Ok, I increased the size significantly. I approach every learning experience on a step by step basis. Start very small and slowly increase. I find this helps for motivation tremendously. Basically, once I feel more comfortable at a certain canvas, I increase size a bit, which is what you'll notice if you check from version to version. Basically, I try to understand the general shape than increasing the size allows me to understand in a more definite fashion what I'm doing.

I think the progress in a couple of days from version 1 to version 7 is encouraging to me anyway. I'm not there yet but it's on the right path.

@FelipeFS: Trying to do both at the same time to be honest. Drawing shapes on the side on paper and practicing my woman there.

Some issues I'm aware of:
-torso too short
-feet not defined

[Seiseki]

The breasts are constantly too high up. Compare to your reference.
Make more measurements if you need to, look at which parts line up.

[dpixel]

Measure from the yellow lines (basically the bones).  The hip is the widest part of that area...feel them in your own hip.


I said the same size generally, and sometimes bigger than the shoulders.

[Zizka]

Gotcha!

Today's version:


I used heads as a measurement unit. Investigated the bones for the leg a bit further. Face is still off to me.

Any comments?

[Zizka]

This morning's progress. This is about 2 hours in. I'm actually happy with myself on the progress made in that time comparing the first version with the last one.

Reference:

[skittlefuck]

I think you're on the right track with the face. The most glaring issue that stands out the most is the pupils/iris, they should be bigger. Also if you flip the image I think you'll see how lopsided the head looks because of the hair.

There's also another issue here I think and that's how far the shading under the cheek bones is being pushed. With the light already striking the cheekbones above it already suggests there is some sort of elevation going on there -having the shadow under them makes it look like there's a cave or something there.

 I also think you should be more frugal with that highlight, if you use it in more select places, and in smaller quantities (like one or two pixel clusters) you'll be able to make certain aspects of the face stand out a lot more -like where the highlight on the nose is, is perfect but having it on the chin and the cheekbones sort gives it a puffy look.

I don't know if you've thought about it this way, but since it's pixelart and you're working at this res you have to think about suggesting features with light, rather than copying the face 1x1. I think for the sake of learning you should cut down on some of your darker colours too so you can concentrate on other things! You don't need too if you're comfortable right now, but yea, really on the right track with this!

[Zizka]

Thanks for the feedback. I've reworked the hair/pupil.

Can you clarify this:

I don't know if you've thought about it this way, but since it's pixelart and you're working at this res you have to think about suggesting features with light, rather than copying the face 1x1. I think for the sake of learning you should cut down on some of your darker colours too so you can concentrate on other things! You don't need too if you're comfortable right now, but yea, really on the right track with this!

I don't understand what you mean and I'd like to.

[Zizka]

This morning's batch:

[dpixel]

Portraits are tricky to get to the likeness.  Pay attention to the shape and size of features and how they line up with other features.
Was a little bored this morning...

[Zizka]

Great edit and at such a small size too. Much skill! 

I found a full time job until March so I don't spend as much time drawing as I used to.

New version however:


Let me know please!

[dpixel]

That #14 looks really good.  Nice improvement!