AuthorTopic: Hair Blowing Loop  (Read 9949 times)

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Hair Blowing Loop

on: March 22, 2016, 07:28:49 am


Continuation of: http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19833.0

Still plan on adding more to it, but I want to get the actual loop down first.  I'm pretty happy with it, but it never hurts to ask.

Offline ChrisN

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • ChrisNordgren
    • http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp
    • christiannordgren
    • Chris Nordgren
    • View Profile
    • [Portfolio] https://www.artstation.com/artist/chrisnordgren

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 11:57:11 am
The sprite looks really great

I think I would go for a wave on the wind animation, currently everything is just swaying back and forth.
I think it would look better if the wind start from the top and goes down.

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 10:50:27 pm
The sprite looks really great

I think I would go for a wave on the wind animation, currently everything is just swaying back and forth.
I think it would look better if the wind start from the top and goes down.

I can sort of visualize what you mean, but do you have any examples?  Might make it a bit easier.


Also, looking at it again makes me thing that I want to mess with the hair that blows over her face.  That can be cleaned up.

Offline ChrisN

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • ChrisNordgren
    • http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp
    • christiannordgren
    • Chris Nordgren
    • View Profile
    • [Portfolio] https://www.artstation.com/artist/chrisnordgren

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 08:35:01 am
Great that you can visualize because I have a hard time finding solid refs:

Pocahontas (better ref):
https://45.media.tumblr.com/5b07e58be75ef5ff4b768eaab37de571/tumblr_n25ah4K8om1tqs1heo1_500.gif

Badly animated but got has useful frames
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclL5SCm31c

basic loop idea, but with the whole body. (missing the hair physics)
http://shidatheumbreon.deviantart.com/art/Shida-s-Hair-In-The-Wind-Flash-Animation-392749847

You want the wind to pan over the whole body like a sinus curve
http://www.toxiclab.org/img/20065322_img4.gif

First it builds up volume, snaps out and retreats with some fallback and then repeats

I hope this sparks an idea for you

Offline Alex Sinigaglia

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • aka G.o.D.
    • god-of-death-alex
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 12:02:13 pm
I tried to animate the hair and the rest, using your first sprite (in the other topic):


Like ChrisN said in your animation everything goes back and forth, but in real life the clothing and the hair don't move like that, they "move while staying in place" (I don't know if that makes sense).

Some reference for the hair could be Gill from Street Fighter III:
or
From the same game, there's Makoto:
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 12:25:39 pm by Alex Sinigaglia »

Offline Roach

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 07:12:43 pm
Is she standing near a tornado? I think the wind could be slowed down a bit actually.

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 08:47:33 pm
Is she standing near a tornado? I think the wind could be slowed down a bit actually.

I'm kind of with him.  I really like the clothing's motions (except maybe the breasts.  Would they cling like that?  It looks like the wind is blowing her boobs around rather than the clothes in that one area.), but I feel like the hair is going a bit nuts for the thing
I'm going for. 

It's hard to explain, but I want more 'flow' than I do 'blow.'  IE, more like Makoto's headband than Gill's hair.

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 997
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 10:17:44 pm
You have everything moving the same distance at the same time.
Try to vary it a bit by overlapping the start and end cycle of the 3 parts you have.

[ = start
] = end
- = frame

Hair      [- - - - - - - -]
Shirt      - -][- - - - - -
Shorts    - - - - - -][- -


Try to give the materials a specific weight/rigidity/viscosity.
They are feeling very similar.

Hair = flowing
Shirt = billowing
Shorts = flapping


You can rearrange those or come up with your own.
Just make them feel different from each other.

Last, give the wind a bit of character with timing.
You have this sort of loop:

gust --> ... --> gust --> ... --> gust --> ...

Experiment with something like:

gust --> ............... --> guuuust --> ... --> guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust --> ................ --> gust --> ...

Listen to some wind recordings or go outside.
Don't forget to make whooshing noises while you sit and draw.
Thinking about sound will help you animate pretty much everything.
If you can make a series of noises to describe an action, and it sounds interesting, it will most likely look interesting as well.
Sound is timing.

Sorry, no time for edits.
Happy pixeling.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Alex Sinigaglia

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • aka G.o.D.
    • god-of-death-alex
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 11:55:38 am
Is she standing near a tornado? I think the wind could be slowed down a bit actually.

I'm kind of with him.  I really like the clothing's motions (except maybe the breasts.  Would they cling like that?  It looks like the wind is blowing her boobs around rather than the clothes in that one area.), but I feel like the hair is going a bit nuts for the thing I'm going for. 

It's hard to explain, but I want more 'flow' than I do 'blow.'  IE, more like Makoto's headband than Gill's hair.

I exaggerated the hair movement on purpose, I wanted to move it so I went crazy with it  ;D ... but then I should have moved everything else more or less the same way... hmmm... :-\
About the breasts, at one point I wanted to leave their outlines where they were, but then I decided to move them a bit to help the sub-pixelling. I guess it didn't work well.

I don't know if PPD's post was directed only at me, only at Rosier or at both of us (I think it's more for Rosier), in any case I didn't play with the animation timings or order of frames, because I just wanted to make the frames. Re-arranging them can come later.

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 05:56:43 am


Fixed the shirt and pants to more resemble Alex's, messed with them a bit, made the ponytail follow a SIN curve, added a bit of belt movement (I imagined it was made of cloth.  It looked weird unmoving, anyway.) and desync'd the hair, shirt and pants from each other so it looked more natural. 

I still need to mess around with the varying degrees of air flow, but I'm still going to need to go over that.

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 07:20:59 pm
That's pretty good! That looks like some pretty intense wind though, like she's standing next to a helicopter or something.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline ChrisN

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • ChrisNordgren
    • http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp
    • christiannordgren
    • Chris Nordgren
    • View Profile
    • [Portfolio] https://www.artstation.com/artist/chrisnordgren

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 08:51:18 pm
wow great job man, looks great!

I don't mind that the wind effect is strong, It looks nice for this piece atm.

Currently the beltbuckle seem to move a bit robotic, maybe less movement or try making it move in a arc(a la illusion of life).

overall I think the character looks great

If you would to continue working on this piece it I suggest having the character idlebouncing to a small degree.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 08:56:47 pm by ChrisN »

Offline Alex Sinigaglia

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • aka G.o.D.
    • god-of-death-alex
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #12 on: March 29, 2016, 03:02:47 pm
Now that's gorgeus. :)
I was going to suggest an arc movement for the belt, but Chris beat me to it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 07:43:44 pm by Alex Sinigaglia »

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 05:14:00 am


Made it a bit slower, made the belt hopefully look a bit more natural (There's also no buckle.  The idea was a completely cloth belt tied at the side, which leads to note 3), and went back to the sash idea. 

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 07:41:58 am
now I just have no idea which way the wind's coming from, shouldn't the strip be flying the other way?
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline Gil

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1543
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Too square to be hip
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/475.htm
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 12:48:44 pm
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The wind seems to be coming from the left, so the belt makes no sense.

Offline tsej

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Art and Code

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 02:47:44 pm
I think the wind is coming from the right if you observe the hair more closely. (Although, the back hair seems weird)
The shirt also seems to suggest it's coming from the right side, or from the general direction.
The shorts and the belts..uh. They kinda look like that too. They seem a bit iffy though.
Correct me if I'm wrong

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 12:32:29 am
I always went with the wind going from right to left, so that's why the hair covering her face, the ahoge and the sash are going the way they are.

I might need to go over the shirt, shorts and ponytail a bit more now that I look at it.

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #18 on: April 12, 2016, 05:12:57 am


Hopefully a decent loop of her letting her hair down.  Loop of both for convenience.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 03:34:13 am by Rosier »

Offline astraldata

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 391
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • MUGEN ZERO

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #19 on: April 26, 2016, 08:00:21 am
I think if you had the sash thing blowing around in the wind behind her, it would look pretty neat, assuming the sash had some width variance on it. Think Makoto from Street Fighter III in the other post -- notice how her yellow bandanna thingy thins out in the silhouette and changes a lot over time with more of a varied wind "sound" thing like PPD mentioned on the other page. The rhythm isn't clear enough in these, and I think the sash, if done correctly, could help to unify that. Do keep in mind that even if the wind is blowing from the right-to-left all the time, unless she has a FAN on her blowing at a steady constant speed in a laboratory environment, the sash, like in all the shampoo commercials' supermodels' hair, would be flapping and flopping around in a somewhat unpredictable way. After all, wind never blows in a steady stream -- it's always gusts.

I think the thing you /really/ should remember is that Animation is all about CHANGE and PUSHING your animations past where you're actually comfortable pushing them in order to add interest. This applies to static images as well, but doubly so in animation!

The wrong KIND of change, of course, in the wrong context, can kill your image -- though, don't ever be afraid to PUSH it regardless, because this can save your ass a LOT more times than not.

A good example of this:

The sash was a great idea, but you just didn't push it far enough. Had you exaggerated it as far as you could go, you likely would have realized that the wind blowing on it was too soft and too constant and thus appeared unnatural. In PUSHING your animation, you would have realized the physical limits of what was possible with the sash and could have executed it stylishly the first time.

With a few mods to the silhouette and potentially adding a bit more to its 3d-ness to break it up (I assumed it was a snake or smth around her waist at first), you could do well with the belt/sash idea as long as you PUSH the animation hard, and then just soften it as you need to from there (but the extremes will still exist behind the animation, and that's a /good/ thing -- always).

Other than that, when she bends a bit to take her hair band off, you should show more change to her knees/butt by bending her silhouette more to give it more life (adding that CHANGE that I had mentioned before). I apologize for emphasizing these words, but I want you to be more aware of them. You've got a LOT of potential, and you only need to be more aware of these two things to get closer to where you want to be. If you admire PPD's work in animation, you should notice that he uses BOTH change and pushing his work to extremes to create the interesting animations (as well as static art too!) he creates! Seek to change and push your art and animation (static art too!) as far as it will go (try to break it!) As long as you do this first, you will always create more natural and more interesting things than you would ever do otherwise with external inspirations and references!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 08:06:43 am by astraldata »
I'm offering free pixel-art mentorship for promising pixel artists. For details, click here.

     http://mugenzero.userboard.net/

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #20 on: April 27, 2016, 03:32:31 am



Took a long look at Makoto, and wound up with this.  If it's not obvious, I'm a bit lost on where to go with the hair when the wind is 'lower' I guess.  Makoto's just barely shifts, but she has a ton of hair, plus the ponytail, so I'm unsure of how to communicate a lower blow rate.
Aside from that, I do plan on coloring the sash once it's finished.



As for the bending part, I originally tried making her move her knees out the slightest bit, but it didn't look quite right.  Looking back, I may just double down on the idea, make her bend lower, and have her push her knees out significantly more.

Offline astraldata

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 391
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • MUGEN ZERO

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #21 on: April 27, 2016, 05:27:12 am
The sash is looking pretty decent, but you could push it farther:



As for the hair, I suggest keeping it the same loop as it was previously (including the strength of wind) throughout the entire animation, but when the wind gusts, show that (just a tad) in the hair during the gust only. Otherwise, keep the loop the same except for that tiny part.

The sash is really the indicator here that there's a gust, just like Makoto's bandanna is the real indicator that there's a significant gust on her. Her clothes mainly just catch a subtle breeze all the time, just like your char's hair would. The difference with her and your char is mainly that you have a breeze blowing constantly (which looks better in my opinion). Makoto, on the other hand, looks too static.

One other thing I want to point out is to make sure you indicate *some* 3d depth to the sash, even if it's only a couple of frames where the light hits it, as this adds to its ability to convince you it's not a snake but a thin sheet of fabric. Makoto's bandanna, with that thin line of light around the edge, does this for her, but you can indicate yours with shadow (with the main hair color) in the billows and folds of the sash so that it appears less like a snake and more like a light fabric -- the latter of which can be indicated with waves of wind across the fabric surface (not too unlike Makoto's pants legs when the big gust happens.)
I'm offering free pixel-art mentorship for promising pixel artists. For details, click here.

     http://mugenzero.userboard.net/

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #22 on: April 28, 2016, 04:31:22 am


I assume you were referring to the ahoge to show the increase in breeze?
And the sash was meant to match her colors.  The purer yellow was just so it didn't blend with her arm and mess with shading and such during tests.

Offline astraldata

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 391
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • MUGEN ZERO

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #23 on: May 10, 2016, 11:56:45 pm
Sorry for the slow reply and the hasty edit -- Here's what I meant:





About frame 4-14 I fixed the sash a little to show what I meant regarding the 3d depth of the ribbon/cloth thingy, but your edit wasn't far off except you didn't put enough shadow across the form in some areas (such as the thin line of pixels moving down the sash over a couple of frames as it flops outward via the windy gust). As counter-intuitive as it may seem at first, it's highly more appealing to use shadow movement to crease the form as often as possible where it can make sense because this adds a lot of life to the subject and, as mentioned previously, it creates a lot more change (even if that change is made primarily with color!) In my edit, I have tweaked the lighting on the belt (but ONLY for a few frames -- I left its movement the same more or less silhouette-wise, and the others I left alone entirely -- hasty edit, as mentioned before, but hopefully you get the general idea).

Additionally, if you study the frames I mentioned, you'll notice that it allows the viewer to get a better sense of the form when you can show large surfaces (such as the tops of the waves of the ribbon/sash) and edges across the front of (even very thin ribbon-like) structures. You'd be amazed that, despite the obvious thickness of a single pixel, indicating edges via movement with those (like I did even with the "ahoge" you mentioned) creates a lot of information that the pixels themselves, as a static image only, could just barely hint at.

The biggest issue with the hair that I tried to explain before was actually in the wind direction of the belt and the hair, not the ahoge. The hair looks really cool, but as others mentioned, it appears as if she's standing under a helicopter that's just throwing wind straight down in waves. While that works, more or less, if you have no other way of indicating movement with a sprite's hair for one reason or another, you should consider having the hair mimic the most important frames of the belt if you can. This is particularly useful when the hair mimics the belt where it curls from the wind at the tips. Hair movement is rarely different from soft-cloth movement.

The original hair indicates wind direction is straight down (as mentioned by others as well as myself), so it looks very much at odds with the belt's movement (despite the belt helping to add a LOT of character). The simplest way to fix such strange movement, at least in this character's case, is to remove the spikiness from the back of the character's hair during the wind change direction (the gusts that kick the belt around to the left) to minimize the appearance of the wind blowing to the right (from the front of the character), since the wind appears to be coming from the back of the character during those gusts, in relation to the belt. I just kept the nice flowing shadows, but shaved off the spikes during the gust frames. Doing this allowed a nice transition between wind-directions thanks to the gust, and gave her hair a lot more life because it created a lot more change in her otherwise repetitive hair cycle.

Keep in mind that anytime you can add in "waves" of secondary movement and vary them between some other portion of that movement (by offsetting them in time or space), your character automatically begins to look more alive and lifelike because that's how nature works -- through cycles of change -- and very few things in nature move lock-step with one another. The more you attempt to mimic this rhythm in your art/animation, the more your stuff will attain a look and feel that appeals on a deeper level to the viewer because of their connection to this rhythm.

I hope this makes sense.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:43:02 am by astraldata »
I'm offering free pixel-art mentorship for promising pixel artists. For details, click here.

     http://mugenzero.userboard.net/

Offline Rosier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #24 on: May 11, 2016, 01:57:36 am
I think I can more or less make sense of that.  I'll keep all of that in mind next time I try an animation like this.

Offline BadMoodTaylor

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 179
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Lou Bagel: Combo Number Five!
    • @LouBagelCombo5
    • LouBagel
    • View Profile
    • Lou Bagel: Combo Number 5

Re: Hair Blowing Loop

Reply #25 on: May 14, 2016, 01:50:08 am
First off let me say I like the art, think it looks good.

One aspect I would point out that I haven't seen changed between any of the drafts is the synchronicity of different parts that are blowing. If you are trying to achieve an effect of no wind to a gust of wind then ignore this, but if it is supposed to be a steady wind then I would offset it as objects being blown by wind appear more random.

To be more specific, the two bangs and two hair bunches on the side of her face start their movement and end their movement at the same time and move the same distance. If she was landing from a jump forward or there was an abrupt gust of wind this would look spot on. But for a steady stream of wind this doesn't look realistic. I feel like the shirt has the same feel to it.

If you don't want to randomize it too much you could probably offset when each part starts blowing. This would give it a more flowing feel then bouncing feel.

Also, I think your gif of her letting her hair down is really cool. I'm a newbie so enjoyed learning from this post. Keep up the good work!
Here to learn pixel art.  Feedback always appreciated.