AuthorTopic: GR#219 - Steamfantry - Sprite Process  (Read 9444 times)

Offline Cyangmou

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GR#219 - Steamfantry - Sprite Process

on: September 25, 2014, 09:31:41 pm
Pretty early wip this time. Being this time far out of my comfort zone I guess.
I Just think it might be good to get some opinions on a few troublespots (I am especially unsure about the legs)
Compared to yesterdays pencil drawing I already moved around a lot of things, fixed a lot of proportions and smaller details.
And after a quite long in depth discussion about a few perspectivical things with Wolfenoctis, I also tried to implement some vertical depth impression to get an overall more natural feeling of the space, which adds a lot I guess (compared to the pencil drawing)

If anyone is interested in discussing depth, form and and figure drawing, I am open for it too =)

Placed the current wip version next to the other figures in order to give a better size/space impression
The armor is pretty heavy and won't work without the engine/external support



concept art to find out how the joints work (because just with the grayscale sketch without light or shading it's hard to see) can be checked here:

and that one for Manupix ;)



Regarding the stormcrow topic
Just a question, what kind of material are the shoulder pads made of. It looks like textureless plastic in the version you have now.

Besides that I like this a lot and love the fur.

I think some light leather-like material or thin metal, and the fabric is just added on top of it.
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Offline Manupix

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 08:41:21 pm
Quote
that one for Manupix
  ;D

I find the pose is somewhat unbalanced, not in the sense of unrealistic but rather of being frozen at the wrong instant: he's falling forward a bit.
Because of other things that I can't pinpoint, he doesn't look as heavy, powerful and menacing as (likely) intended.
Random example (obviously not relevant as far as the pose and structure are concerned, just for the kind of feeling I'd expect):

Offline Mathias

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 10:29:51 pm
OH MAN
Can't wait to see you knock this one out, too!
Really love the girl and Sturmkrähe.


Quote
Being this time far out of my comfort zone I guess.
I'm curious - what about rendering this character makes you feel that way?
I mean . . . not that following through with this one isn't outside 95% of pixellers' comfort zone, hehhhh . . .


Are these images all meant to be part of the same "family"? The same set? Should they be more similar so they can serve that function better?
The girl and Sturmkrähe are facing left and pictured in a simple standing pose.
Heavy infantry is going right and actually in motion. Will this still work for their intended purpose?


First impression of this guy is that he's a diver. He resembles antique divers. (guessing you referenced them)
I think because of the large, bulbous, rounded helmet and bulky shoes.
Not a bad thing necessarily, just my observation.

Love how the bullet magazine is attached at the elbow piece.
I guess the trigger/switch to fire the gun is in that rounded hand-covering above the gun.


About his design, which is very cool, two things do bother me:
  • The exhaust pipes.
    They seem too modern. Especially the grid of holes in the heat dissipator outer pipe. Maybe diamond-shaped holes instead? I know you're trying to avoid unnecessary ornate details.
    And why two of them?
    The pipes' presence indicates a serious heat source. Seems possibly too close and too great to dissipate without burning him/heating his armor up to unbearable levels. Is this issue too realism-concerned to worry about in your game world, though? Probably.
  • Hands free.
    If this guy falls over, he's done. I highly doubt he could back up on his feet without assistance, but it couldn't be from another heavy infantry unit. They'd all have the same issue - no useable fingers. What could they do?
    Can he drop his shield if he has to? Appears tethered to his arm.
    While this guy looks very imposing, possessing devastating firepower and high defense, he seems to also have some very dangerous weaknesses.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 12:46:07 pm by Mathias »

Offline Night

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #3 on: September 27, 2014, 12:49:51 pm
Look really cool so far, good job.  :y:

A few issues, mainly with the pose, which is tricky so I don't blame you; I'm not even sure if what I'm proposing is correct tbh.

First thing I'd change would just be its size for general impression. Just making it slightly bigger would make it look better in my opinion, reinforcing the fact that it's supposed to be heavily armoured and powerful. I'd go as far as to making it look bulky in certain areas (places that wouldn't hinder mobility a lot for an instance).

Second thing I notice is that it seems like he's kind of leaning forward (it looks like if you just rotated it slightly to the left it'd be fine). What I would suggest to do is rotate the upper part of his body (basically torso) a bit to the left, to give him an upright stance.

Now the really tricky part is the legs (and right part of his body too -- to an extent), this is the part I'm unsure about, personally I'd go for a completely different pose for this character, but that's besides the point I guess.
What I imagine you should do is pull his right leg closer to his body and make it point almost directly at the viewer. the kneecap, too pointing closer to the viewer's perspective, should be slightly facing the ground, but just slightly really.
His left leg on the other hand, should point almost completely to our right (still keeping in mind perspective of course, so you'd see it from the top too a bit).

The other part that I suggest to change, but I don't find critical, is the right part of his body; making it closer to the viewers perspective, kind of going along the same way as his right leg.
Here's an edit to help you understand what I mean better:

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Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #4 on: September 27, 2014, 03:20:26 pm
current version:
Is a lot cleaner, played myself a lot around with different proportions. I Also started with rough clustering, I don't put much effort in a consistent light direction so far, because I mainly tried to seperate the parts and get overall an better readability beetween them. Consistent lighting will come in as I go along.



I also changed the forward bend body, although I assumed that it would help with the impression of the heavyness, it seems to get pointed out consistently.

@Mathias:
First it's a rather difficult design for a human figure. Humans are a difficult enough task, but with all those angles and ellipses which need to look correct and technical on top of the figure, it's just difficult.

The characters are meant to be out of one universe, the big sprites are designed to be used for 2 reasons
1) as individual pieces of art, illustrations for some concept sI did.
2) if it comes to a game, I want to use those sprites maybe in a dialogue system.

Actually If I display them from the left or the right should be unimportant anyways since the light comes directly from the front - we had this discussion already in the crow topic.
That sprite is displayed from the other side, mainly that shield and gun are aligned with the concept art, I could mirror it, but it won't make too much of a difference.

As a quick reminder form the older topic:
which shows the intented use quite well.

You are right with the assumption of the diving suits. Parts of this character are older than others, the engine for example is new, which explains the different style for that.

Hands: already thought about that, will mos tlikely go for a similar design as for the helms and I seperated the thumbs - that just for the visual side - pretty rough edited in the current version.

@Night:
Your edit adresses 2 things I found out myself, the foreshortening of the front arm and the rear leg.
I really liked the placement of the rear leg in your sketch. The only issue I have there is that the legs now look like they have a different length (which is the same problem I alsways have and it's easy to overlook if one does it and also really difficult to fix...) I sketched it roughly in how I imagine and will refine it as I go along.
For the gun/front arm I also applied a depth effect, not to sure if it's cool or just looking out of place at the moment.

I went for this pose of the character to have a good descriptive view of all parts. I did myself about 20 sketches and despite a few of them might have looked cooler as single piece of art, they wouldn't work in the dialogue or wouldn't be descriptive enough, which is the reason why I went with this approach.

@Manupix:
should be completely different now.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 03:30:22 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline Night

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 01:30:43 pm
I don't know man.. I think I'll wait till you start with colours and/or shading so I can actually see the depth and comment better about the legs and overall character, just easier with shadows and such.

Meanwhile here's a quick edit demonstrating what I find wrong with the pose currently, and what I think could work better (with the perspective you're working with too).

I moved the helmet part also a little to the back too, but it doesn't make much of a difference; just wanted to test it out.

The problem is that both legs share almost the same lengths (view wise), despite the intention being for him to look like he's walking(?), which leaves the rear leg looking like it's floating in your version.
About the front arm, what do you mean by depth effect? Also I think I know why I suggested moving the front arm with the gun closer to the viewer's point of view earlier on, which is to do with the leg placement (what I changed again as you can see) because in my edit it looks like he's pulling the arm gun towards him, rather than it staying static.
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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 04:12:09 pm
Yes the legs have been bothering me since the beginning. Night's edit is totally on point.
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Offline Daimoth

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 04:44:16 pm
Critiquing your work always makes me feel uppity and precocious, but here we go.

Great edit,  Night, I hadn't even realized that bothered me before you pointed it out. The upper half of the arms is a bit narrow, and an individual would have to be really beefy to wear the suit at all.

This is very arguable, but I'd have have the left arm (our left) pointing more toward the viewer to open up the stance a bit. What's your context here? Are they chat box sprites? If so, there's nothing for him to be pointing the left arm at.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 04:46:39 pm by Daimoth »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #8 on: September 28, 2014, 05:25:11 pm
Well what else can I say there Night, except that I love the changes and that I also love the nice feeling of dynamism added through the strong bent knee and the slightly contraposto which is now evident.
Guess I will draw the next pose sketch on the pc to make use of rotations and quick changes right from the beginning.
I am still always a bit scared to apply strong changes were I already put a lot of effort in.

Yes the legs have been bothering me since the beginning. Night's edit is totally on point.
Not only you, me too... =)

Critiquing your work always makes me feel uppity and precocious, but here we go.

This is very arguable, but I'd have have the left arm (our left) pointing more toward the viewer to open up the stance a bit. What's your context here? Are they chat box sprites? If so, there's nothing for him to be pointing the left arm at.

The weapon arm is fixed in the pointing position to make the aiming with the gun faster and more accurate and as counterweight to the backbag.
The shield arm is fixed in the shield position for similar reasons.

--

Every piece of art from everybody can be critiqued just from a reasonable and logical standpoint.
There will always be details which can be altered, changed or solved differently, maybe for the better.
As long as critique isn't abused as a way to personally attack someone, anything work related can be pointed out I guess.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 05:37:37 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline Night

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #9 on: September 28, 2014, 07:34:52 pm
I am still always a bit scared to apply strong changes were I already put a lot of effort in.
Yeah, I feel you.

I don't know how your workflow goes like, but usually, even if drawn on a sketch I've done irl, I start with a quick, dirty and very general mash of blobs or lines (sort of like what I did in my edit of the leg) and go on from there -- fixing little problems before they escalate into bigger ones and then go into detail; pretty useful for avoiding that feel later on if you haven't tried that yet.

I hate pointing this out because it goes without saying, but it's always good to go from the simple to the complex. Details like all the little lines and indentations could be avoided up until you get the overall feel of the picture.


Also excuse me if I sound like an asshole by any chance, I always feel like I do for some reason after critiquing another's work.  :crazy:
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Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 09:51:05 pm
I don't know how your workflow goes like, but usually, even if drawn on a sketch I've done irl, I start with a quick, dirty and very general mash of blobs or lines (sort of like what I did in my edit of the leg) and go on from there -- fixing little problems before they escalate into bigger ones and then go into detail; pretty useful for avoiding that feel later on if you haven't tried that yet.

I hate pointing this out because it goes without saying, but it's always good to go from the simple to the complex. Details like all the little lines and indentations could be avoided up until you get the overall feel of the picture.


Also excuse me if I sound like an asshole by any chance, I always feel like I do for some reason after critiquing another's work.  :crazy:

Everything's alright Night, really appreciate our conversation since the last thread. I couldn't wish for more =)

Well I think that drawing the poses with applying perspective with pencil is a lot less forgiving than doing that with pc.
It's just the third sprite and it's quite a complex style, so I already thought a lot about the basic WIP, but I already adjusted a lot due to my experience values.
At the current point I think that the pencil pose drawing is to stiff to apply quick rotation and resizing effects you can apply easily digitally.
The form detailling step and laying in deep space ellipses with pixel art is plainly a pain in the ass. I imagined it would get really worse with this sprite, but it's even a bigger pain in the ass, than I assumed. I guess I will stay with pencil for that step, because that's a lot more effective.

But yeah, now I applied your leg posing and applied it to my perspective grid, I also roughly shaded the planes of the legs (not to much because it would be good to get a second opinion on them)

and I already started with applying grayscale detail for the rest of the sprite.
might need some more cast shadows and some stronger plane seperation, since I don't added there the finals. But I am open for suggestions (added the crow next to it to get a better feeling for the overall light direction)

wip-version

-moved the gun arm inward (shoulder joint)
-fixed width of the gun-arm
-fixed the length and position of the shield arm

unsure about the shield - I use currently pixel perfect lines, don't know if more perspective would be more effective
unsure about readybility of the rear hand
unsure about rear leg (especially about the height of the knee and the rotation of the foot)



light overview:


gif with figure
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Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 01:01:41 am
grayscale. Next thing will be adding colors.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 02:22:16 am
Really impressive. It doesn't even look like pixel art actually.
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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 05:41:50 am
The impressive part for me is the ability for one to tell which parts are metal so easily at a glance. Truly awesome texture.  :y:

Offline Mathias

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 06:43:04 pm
What, really? You pixel in grey, then color later? I . . . don't think I've seen anyone do that unless of course they're just mapping a color ramp over the palette.
How are you going about doing this?
Did you do this with either the earlier done girl or crow?
Very curious. You're one of the faster pixellers I know of so I'd like to know more if you feel like sharing.

___


The impressive part for me is the ability for one to tell which parts are metal so easily at a glance.
But . . . it's all metal.

I'm a little surprised to see reflective chrome-like surfaces on him. They look cool, though.
Polished metal seems a little out of place, to me, because I guess I was assuming this guy to be more of a grungier, industrial type.
But some flashy, showier parts is interesting because it implies these guys have pride in what they do and so they keep their exoskeletons nice looking. Like a soldier that obsessively clean and polishes his gun/gear.

I'm really happy with the pose fix. The leg thing. Much better.

Diggin' those boots, man!

You decreased the diameter of the upper arm pieces. Are you sure there's enough space inside for a man's upper arm?
Even the overlaid figure GIF you made doesn't appear to fit.
Even at a glance, the upper arms' armor seems much too small.
I can only imagine a rather tough looking guy wearing the suit, and therefore I'd expect him to be rather muscular.
I know he'd have the engine-assisted hydraulics and all that, but still.

What would a guy be wearing, inside the suit?
When he takes it off, after battle, what does he have on? Would it be something like a pair of long-johns?

Offline Daimoth

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #15 on: October 01, 2014, 07:11:23 pm
Well, it's beautiful.

The angle at which the left (our left) the thigh comes off the knee reads a bit weird to me. And I still think the arm above the elbow joint is too narrow.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #16 on: October 01, 2014, 08:11:18 pm
 :y:
------



For the back foot, raise the heel up like you did in the figure sketch, you could do a bit more to show the top plane of the foot instead of the front plane.Also the scale of the back leg might be a little off; it's not far enough back in space to be that much smaller than the front.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 12:56:21 am
Ok, specifically the chrome-y reflective parts XP. Also I don't think he could realistically be wearing anything too thick under without suffering from heatstroke, but he would still need to wear something thick enough so that he doesn't get scraped to death by the suit so maybe we can assume he taped bags of ice to himself.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 06:06:31 am
Really great rendering as usual. I do think the weight of the figure is still off. The left leg is occupying space on the same plane as the right side of the body while the left side mass is beyond that. Nothing is supporting the left side of the body. Additionally the big metal shield is pushing the overall center of gravity to the left.

I put your new picture over your perspective guidelines with the "chin" at the vanishing point like your original.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:32:31 am by jtfjtfjtf »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 06:43:40 pm
no stream anymore.
Thanks to cake, ppd, psylent and all others who were there.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:50:32 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline BatElite

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #20 on: October 02, 2014, 10:02:14 pm
The perspective of the bullet belt seems of to me, appearing to recede into the background and then somehow going into a gun closer to us.
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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #21 on: October 02, 2014, 10:50:00 pm
pretty much finished colored version.



What, really? You pixel in grey, then color later? I . . . don't think I've seen anyone do that unless of course they're just mapping a color ramp over the palette.
How are you going about doing this?
Did you do this with either the earlier done girl or crow?
Very curious. You're one of the faster pixellers I know of so I'd like to know more if you feel like sharing.

Well making grayscale first and adding color later is much slower. It doesn't really make sense from the efficiency.
How I do it... I just put the color on top of it.
Both, crow and girl used that process.
Since the designs are really complex this take long, but it saves me a lot of headache in the process, which I would have if I'd go with pure color first.

I'm a little surprised to see reflective chrome-like surfaces on him. They look cool, though.
Polished metal seems a little out of place, to me, because I guess I was assuming this guy to be more of a grungier, industrial type.
But some flashy, showier parts is interesting because it implies these guys have pride in what they do and so they keep their exoskeletons nice looking. Like a soldier that obsessively clean and polishes his gun/gear.

not much chrome, aside from the exhaust pipes, the shining parts are copper. I have there also brass, iron steel and some other textures, I also actually wanted to find out how much variety I can achieve with something which consists just out of various types of metal. Guess it looks interesting enough.
The copper parts are clean, while the iron is old and rough and the rust was brushed off.

You decreased the diameter of the upper arm pieces. Are you sure there's enough space inside for a man's upper arm?
Even the overlaid figure GIF you made doesn't appear to fit.
Even at a glance, the upper arms' armor seems much too small.
I can only imagine a rather tough looking guy wearing the suit, and therefore I'd expect him to be rather muscular.
I know he'd have the engine-assisted hydraulics and all that, but still.

Increased that significantly. ALso was much easier to see with color.

What would a guy be wearing, inside the suit?
When he takes it off, after battle, what does he have on? Would it be something like a pair of long-johns?

something like that, some parts will be padded with cloth and leather. Inside the armor it will be pretty hot, outside the.

For the back foot, raise the heel up like you did in the figure sketch, you could do a bit more to show the top plane of the foot instead of the front plane. Also the scale of the back leg might be a little off; it's not far enough back in space to be that much smaller than the front.

actually I rechecked it and made the foot a bit bigger.
Actually regarding to the concept the foot don't has a rolling movent, the front part always sits on the ground and there are pistons which will move the sole, in this position the upper copper plates will overlap.
Despite that I think it's looking better and more natural now.

Really great rendering as usual. I do think the weight of the figure is still off. The left leg is occupying space on the same plane as the right side of the body while the left side mass is beyond that. Nothing is supporting the left side of the body. Additionally the big metal shield is pushing the overall center of gravity to the left.

fixed that a little bit. The left vanishing point also was moved a bit more to the right since the first pencil version. Regarding the grid it looks somewhat ok, the legs could be spread wider but also would cause problems with pixel perfec tlines then, I am a bit limited on snapped angles.
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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #22 on: October 03, 2014, 01:34:23 am
I said "hot damn" out load when I saw the colored version. You've added a lot of life to the image.

Minor qualm, but I think a lot of the issues on weight that people are bringing up are being accentuated by those upward curving spiked sections of the boots. They are a very cool idea design wise but I feel like they might be sabotaging the stability of the pose a little, as they are a touch confusing to read (can't tell where the foot is at first glance). Going for something a touch more ordinary would ground the figure more dramatically, and a figure as heavy as this could really use it.

Beyond that, lovely pixeling as always.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #23 on: October 03, 2014, 02:05:46 am
Not to get too nitpicky here, but there's a pixel near the lower half of the shield I think should be moved a pixel to the left.
Seriously though, awesome. Alcopop might be right. Is it just me or does the lower half of the shield's strap not have a shadow?

Offline jtfjtfjtf

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #24 on: October 03, 2014, 04:57:25 am
fixed that a little bit. The left vanishing point also was moved a bit more to the right since the first pencil version. Regarding the grid it looks somewhat ok, the legs could be spread wider but also would cause problems with pixel perfec tlines then, I am a bit limited on snapped angles.

I'm not sure about the terminology of the pixel perfect lines and snapped angles, that's new to me. I suppose it boils down to artistic liberty.
For future reference one easy way to find weight without full perspective is just to draw a line from the center mass straight down. The support elements, in this case the legs, should be pretty much equal distances from that point. With the piece it's right behind the left foot, making it too close to that foot and too far from the right foot. The whole weight being off just seems incongruous with the awesome meticulous level of reality based accuracy for everything else.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #25 on: October 03, 2014, 08:53:31 am
I'm not sure about the terminology of the pixel perfect lines and snapped angles, that's new to me. I suppose it boils down to artistic liberty.

boils down to pixel art cluster-cleanness and I am a fan of that =). After all it's pixel art.

For future reference one easy way to find weight without full perspective is just to draw a line from the center mass straight down. The support elements, in this case the legs, should be pretty much equal distances from that point. With the piece it's right behind the left foot, making it too close to that foot and too far from the right foot. The whole weight being off just seems incongruous with the awesome meticulous level of reality based accuracy for everything else.

Nope.
The center of mass should be a stable triangle if the figure is in a static pose.
As soon as we have an action pose or an about-to pose the center of gravity shifts and this rule doesn't count any more.
A walk is only possible because we shift weight and go through a sequence of controlled falls.
If we apply this "rule" you pointed out everywhere, it commonly leads to static images and here I have planned a bit more action in right from the beginning, without knowing how good it would work.
I think it looks a lot more dynamic and interesting than the crow. Maybe I should go back to a really dynamic standing pose, like one Creya has with the next figure, because that seems to work.

Not to get too nitpicky here, but there's a pixel near the lower half of the shield I think should be moved a pixel to the left.
Seriously though, awesome. Alcopop might be right. Is it just me or does the lower half of the shield's strap not have a shadow?

ah yeah forgot the shadow on the lower half.
Can you point out that other pixel, make it red or draw a circle around the area?

Minor qualm, but I think a lot of the issues on weight that people are bringing up are being accentuated by those upward curving spiked sections of the boots. They are a very cool idea design wise but I feel like they might be sabotaging the stability of the pose a little, as they are a touch confusing to read (can't tell where the foot is at first glance). Going for something a touch more ordinary would ground the figure more dramatically, and a figure as heavy as this could really use it.

I liberally go here for the design aspect. A tleast I know now, that for toher shoe and foot designs I won't work with length shifting mechanical parts, if it's for humans =)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:02:57 am by Cyangmou »
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Offline jtfjtfjtf

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #26 on: October 03, 2014, 12:31:14 pm
Nope.
The center of mass should be a stable triangle if the figure is in a static pose.
As soon as we have an action pose or an about-to pose the center of gravity shifts and this rule doesn't count any more.
A walk is only possible because we shift weight and go through a sequence of controlled falls.
If we apply this "rule" you pointed out everywhere, it commonly leads to static images and here I have planned a bit more action in right from the beginning, without knowing how good it would work.
I think it looks a lot more dynamic and interesting than the crow. Maybe I should go back to a really dynamic standing pose, like one Creya has with the next figure, because that seems to work.

I think with both feet being somewhat flat on the ground in the picture and the heavy armor and shield it looks like he has the motions of taking a step and stabilizing, taking another step and stabilizing. And the snapshot of that movement is in the stabilizing frame, so that makes me think of his weight and position having to be stable more than thinking he exists in dynamic motion. Of course it's possible he's really quick because he has those hip wheel treads and he's mid run or jog but with that I think going even more dynamic like emphasizing lifting the back foot, adding more bend to the knees/ankles, having the shield held higher for more protection because he's running into an action zone, or even adding a smoke trail from his exhausts which are connected to the engine that powers the treads would help. Especially since the center line can't be stretched/broken with the set-in place armor and helmet. I certainly like that you decided to do more of an action shot for this one and i'm really looking forward to the next piece in the series.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 02:20:23 pm by jtfjtfjtf »

Offline Night

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #27 on: October 03, 2014, 01:03:12 pm
Was really tired the last couple of days so I didn't add any critique; seems like I missed a lot.

You work really fast I must say!


Not much to say anymore, but there are still a few things bothering me, still particularly on the rear leg.
The lower decorative part of knee cop should appear more since it's pointing downwards more than the front one, furthermore the shadow cast on the knee cop from the upper decorative part should be more apparent because, again, it's pointing downwards more.
The foot itself should just be slightly bigger, or wider for that matter, and should probably also cover up the scale-like armour on the back.

The upper part of the body could use some alterations too, perhaps make it wider to create a stronger impression. The gun case, in my opinion should be closer to the arm, or rather, appear as if it's behind the elbow directly. Another minor thing in the upper body is the visor(?), which looks like it's emitting light, in which case I'd make a slight highlight and a source of light coming from the back.

Some less crucial additions I've made are reflections.

Other part that bothers me a little is where light and dark areas are; mainly because it could bring out certain areas more (like the knee cops or the gun for an instance).

Additionally, the strap on the shield, which aside from being only one, seems really slim. So just making it bigger, and perhaps adding another one could fix that.



Something I wanted to mention earlier was to make the shield vertically held, but there's not much point to that now.
There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #28 on: October 03, 2014, 03:14:04 pm
worked in some of nights stuff
worked harder on the reflections
cleaned up a lot of spots
would say that's the final.

about the shield: yeah, too much change at this stage, since this would need a lot more pose changes.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 06:25:52 pm by Cyangmou »
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #29 on: October 03, 2014, 09:09:55 pm
could the two slits in the top of the shield be cleaned up a bit?  On dark and medium backgrounds they look fine, but on light backgrounds they look sketch

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #30 on: October 03, 2014, 09:36:30 pm
Turning out so f'n well; love the way you made the brass and copper.
I do think the shield is better angled as it is; otherwise Night's critiques have been great!
 

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #31 on: October 04, 2014, 10:29:11 am
Looking good Tom  :y:

Two points that might be useful:

I really think the rear leg's heel should be raised, the pose does not make sense otherwise (for me at least). The recolor is just a suggestion feel free to ignore if you don't agree.

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #32 on: October 04, 2014, 12:08:38 pm
so final adjustments, mainly rear leg, which is really nasty. I Moved the plates a bit further apart and emphasized the perspective with the top plate.
I am not going to redraw the knees or the front foot, too much work went in there already and it's just too late.
 
However I am looking forward to test out the next pose drawing approach where I will apply a lot of the stuff I learned and I hope that this approach will solve some problems in a much faster and more effective way.

I also really liked the reddish glow in the copper which I overtook Ben, the iron will stay brown.

I call it now really finished and will move on to the next one =)

Thanks to everyone for the input and the nice time in the streams, I really appreciated it.

"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Facet

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #33 on: October 05, 2014, 03:15:50 pm
The quality of these is really something special, and these are just in-game talking heads?
The girl looks much improved over the previous too.   

I see you’re done and I can’t argue with that, couple design issues that jumped out at me though:

Anachronism aside, the sorta ornate, hand crafted, medieval-looking leggings/boots look kinda strange (even delicate!) next to the really brutal industrial cog-pauldrens and riot shield stuff up top. Actually I think this was more apparent in the sketches; the shared material rendering pulls it together quite well, but it’s an odd design choice.

I’m no expert but it looks more like a diesel exhaust pipe and I he’s intended as steam powered? I think the hot steam could be a hazard so it’s usually funnelled up and away instead of diffusing all around through a perforated heat sink. Will anyone care: no.

The shield forms a tangent with the back thigh; it sort of ‘webs’ the legs, muddies the silhouette a little. (Back leg looks alright to me btw; nice bit of movement).
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 03:20:36 pm by Facet »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #34 on: October 05, 2014, 03:55:34 pm
The quality of these is really something special, and these are just in-game talking heads?
The girl looks much improved over the previous too.   

I see you’re done and I can’t argue with that, couple design issues that jumped out at me though:

Anachronism aside, the sorta ornate, hand crafted, medieval-looking leggings/boots look kinda strange (even delicate!) next to the really brutal industrial cog-pauldrens and riot shield stuff up top. Actually I think this was more apparent in the sketches; the shared material rendering pulls it together quite well, but it’s an odd design choice.

@Facet: Cool that you show up again, really missed you here.

Currently those are just artworks mainly for practicing a lo tof things.
If I turn the whole thing into to a game I will use them as chatterbox heads, so the practice would have an practical approach as well.

Regarding to the design choices:
Like in reality, not everything has to be out of the same period of time.
This armor design has it's own past.
The crude industrial stuff is left from thr original period as they were designed the first time.
The adjusted elements are out of the modern period and featuring the style which is currently "in" in the world.

I mean I wrote the design long before I did the actual piece of art, I released it here:
http://cyangmou.deviantart.com/art/Adjusted-Steamfantry-486364287

I care up to a certain point about technical detail, unless it would hurt the artistical choices too much, speak if the idea would be limited by the strictness of realistic technical restrictions, that's something I can overlook.
The cool thing for me is to create something which might not work in our reality, but is close enough to be believable in a fantastical world.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 04:03:05 pm by Cyangmou »
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Facet

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Re: Heavy Infantry

Reply #35 on: October 05, 2014, 07:37:28 pm
Hey thanks! It’s nice to be back and about, I’m trying to find an excuse to work on some pixels.

Quote
Regarding to the design choices:
Like in reality, not everything has to be out of the same period of time.
This armor design has it's own past.
The crude industrial stuff is left from thr original period as they were designed the first time.
The adjusted elements are out of the modern period and featuring the style which is currently "in" in the world.

Yeah, the intention of a novel history and ‘long tail’ technology can be really cool but is definitely a bit trickier to communicate; dude doesn't particularly appear retro-fitted or cobbled together (to me anyway); more off-the-assembly-line premium Verne-tech™ with some unaccountable decor. Again though, it works fine but design talk is good practice and interesting to me.