AuthorTopic: GR#216 - Wheat Field - Scenery, Gameart  (Read 7048 times)

Offline jahasaja

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GR#216 - Wheat Field - Scenery, Gameart

on: September 08, 2014, 02:00:14 pm
Hi all,

Working on a wheat fields with parallax scrolling. I am happy with the sense of depth it provides, however, I am really bad with texture so I need help with that and perhaps the colours.


here is the closest field: 

and here is how it looks in the game:

 

Thankful for any help

(Also thanks for all the comments on my "tree in the wind" thread. I had to take a break from that one but will reply in a week or so)

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 03:38:37 pm
I don't have crits for you yet but I want to say that the game you're making looks pretty damn neato. What are you writing it in?

edit:
I do have crits actually. this kind of texture would be used for far-away fields, but up close the ground is very much just dirt and you would see more individual stems. The perspective is odd too because it curves at the top and then slopes straight down around the top-middle.

edit:
here are two refs for nearby wheat.
http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/13/65513-004-38169C10.jpg
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desktopwallpaperhd.net%2Fwallpapers%2F19%2F9%2Fwallpapers-wheat-fields-field-198393.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desktopwallpaperhd.net%2Fwallpapers-wheat-fields-field-198393.html&h=1200&w=1920&tbnid=WZI2G3qJgRqVGM%3A&zoom=1&docid=cPLoUq3utTuBdM&hl=en&ei=A84NVL-NIIu1yATQs4GoBg&tbm=isch&ved=0CF4QMyghMCE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1772&page=2&start=25&ndsp=34
Note the color of the round between rows and the look of shorter trimmed wheat.

http://www.hdwallsource.com/field-wallpaper-31069.html
here is a good reference for far away fields. notice how you can only see the rows when looking at them dead on, and they disappear when the field curves away.

if you're trying to emulate a growing field, then the ground would mostly be dirt with short speckled grass-like stalks only on the rows. in this case the rows would be as visible as you have drawn them, but would be more dark and brown.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 03:45:48 pm by Fizzick »

Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 03:51:23 pm
Thanks for the nice word. I make it in Gamemaker. Mostly a hobby project but I plan to finish it. Not sure if it is fun enough to sell.. 

The perspective I am going for is something like this:



yeah I have tried to do the individual stems but they do not come out very well. So that is some of the problems I am having with the texture. However, There will be some other animated grass and dirt in the foreground though.



Offline Fizzick

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 04:05:28 pm
I think you may have to make seperate sprites for the foreground and background, as simple scaling looks odd. I will try to work on an edit soon.

Offline wanderly

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 04:21:29 pm
First, I should say that I'm no expert! These are just my thoughts - I figured if I asked for critique myself, I should at least try to offer some.



Here's a quick edit. If you post a .png, it'd be easier to do something more accurately.

Overall, I like it. It does give the impression of depth. The palette looks like it's a grey, rainy day to me, which is cool if that's what you're going for. In my edit, I circled some points in the background that appear to need refinement to smooth out the line, as the jagginess sticks out. I added a bit of your shading colors to one side of the rows, to try to create a sense of depth between them, and establish a lighting direction - I'm not totally sure it works as I've done it, but I think something like that could help. Also, the tree looks like it's just floating there, perhaps add a bit of shading in the grass around the trunk? I can't directly comment on the texture, like you'd asked, partly because the .jpg-iness affects the texture you have now. I also have tried to do something like you're doing now in the past and struggled with it, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

EDIT: I just realized that you did post a .gif of the front row, whoops! - I'll take another look at it soon.

2nd EDIT:


I added a highlight to give a stronger direction, enhanced the shading on the lee side, used a bit of dithering of the darker accent to try to shape it and give a bit of a rougher texture. I also flattened the angle of the rows, which garbled the edges of the outside two rows a bit. Definitely still a few of my mistakes still in there, but perhaps it can help you a bit. I agree, at this scale, it's hard to show stalks - I tried unsuccessfully. I also added some variation on the lee side shading to try to give a sense of the varying height of the stalks - I don't know how well it comes through though, perhaps it would look better with a bit more contrast.

Cheers! I enjoyed this little experiment.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 05:06:41 pm by wanderly »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 05:09:26 pm
This doesn't look much like a wheat field. You don't see the rows stand out much in wheat fields (except after harvest), and no brown earth in between. Also the common mind image one has of them is ripe summer golden, not spring green.



Perspective is a bit wonky, although not the way Fizzick said. The slopes and curves are different on each 'level' in a random way. Either they should stay the same, or they should 'flatten out' in the fg as in your ref, because of stronger foreshortening in the back level. Those curves should also be cleaner.

Main problem is with colors though. That gif close-up has 19 colors, where 5 would be enough. If the blurry, noisy texture look is what you're after, pixel-art is not the right medium for this.

Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 01:45:43 pm
Thanks everybody for the input!

Sorry for all the colours it was suppose to be only 6 (photoshop and opacity  :yell:)

Here is a new version were I tried to make the texture better (I will look more closely at the perspective later. ). I tried to incorporate wanderly's edit's shadow.

   

Edit: here is a new screen shot. Kind of lost the rainy day feel. but perhaps more easy on the eye?


And sorry, perhaps, it is not a wheat field but a hay field. This is was what I was going for:





« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 11:44:16 am by jahasaja »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 08:53:32 pm
In the case of a hay field, I believe it is the mowing technology and not the way the grass is planted that produces the striped effect. Besides that, AFAIK there wouldn't be dedicated hay growing and harvesting in medieval britain. Sheep and livestock would pretty much roam on ordinary fields and eat the grass there.

Offline Mathias

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 09:22:15 pm
Ehhhh I say - why get all technical. Just do what looks cool and fits into the environment.

What you've got right now are crop rows. Looks like a massive spinach crop or something.


In the case of a hay field, I believe it is the mowing technology and not the way the grass is planted that produces the striped effect. Besides that, AFAIK there wouldn't be dedicated hay growing and harvesting in medieval britain. Sheep and livestock would pretty much roam on ordinary fields and eat the grass there.
Right right. The field behind my house gets mowed and bailed during the growing season, so I see this happen multiple times per year.
The lines/rows are caused by the tractor mower. Obviously, nobody was mowing grass, making hay, back when knights roamed the land.

I dig the windmills! I hope they animate.

Offline PsylentKnight

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 10:39:16 pm

Right right. The field behind my house gets mowed and bailed during the growing season, so I see this happen multiple times per year.
The lines/rows are caused by the tractor mower. Obviously, nobody was mowing grass, making hay, back when knights roamed the land.


I grew up on my dad's farm. If you wanna get really pedantic about it, its the hay rake, (not the mower) that arranges it into rows. ;)
Mow -> Rake -> Bale

Anyway, yea. There's not a lot anyway can say about it until its something more befitting to the era. Maybe instead of rows of hay it can be rows of some other crop. It already reminds me of a vineyard as is...
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Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 09:25:37 am
I was waiting for somebody to point out the historical inaccuracy and then I get 3 in a row.  ;)

Now I kind of like the yellow. I hope there is some kind of yellow crop in the middle ages that was planted like this.  ???

Mathis:
Quote
"Ehhhh I say - why get all technical. Just do what looks cool and fits into the environment."
If I am hearing you correctly you think I can keep it as it is?

The Windmills are animated as are the trees and the front grass, I will try to do some wind coding so they move in unison with wind gusts.

Offline Mathias

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 02:44:34 pm
Yes.
I'm sure you're better off focusing on more important things anyway. Don't get too caught up in polish when your game is still rough.

A comment on the windmills, though - windmills grind, right? Inside the structure, there's a turning, grinding mechanism powered by wind.
What are your windmills doing, since stationed out in the middle of a crop/field? Besides decorating the background of course . . .

Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 03:02:35 pm
Well i want to answer you with your own quote. " why get all technical" :). But as we all can see in this thread: I did not think it through: first it was wheat then it was hay and now i do not even know what it is.. but I like the current style and the wind gust idea is working quite good.

However, They should be in the open i guess to catch as much wind as possible. And i guess there is a road between the elevated areas of the crops that we cannot see.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 03:15:25 pm by jahasaja »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 03:35:47 pm
If you're going for britain, a heavily farmed area like this would be in the north where there are lots of sheep. I recommend adding crisscrossing stone walls as a further detail.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/8/7/1344337886962/Yorkshire-010.jpg
Take a reference of beautiful Yorkshire.  :)

Offline Mathias

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 04:14:16 pm
Well i want to answer you with your own quote. " why get all technical" :).

Your call. It's your project.
In my opinion, whether you want your background fields to be hay or actual harvest crops doesn't matter. Either makes sense.
But - tiny windmills the size of saplings which don't serve any apparent purpose other than background ambience, located in the middle of crop rows, situated in a medieval scene, is . . . a little too much for me.
Maybe they're housing wind turbines, storing up wind-power generated electricity, in order to serve as battery backups for the local village power grid when there's a black-out.
Plot twist: the character you control is actually a contestant in a deadly game show where the goal is to make it to the end and collect a million dollars. The year is really 2014.

Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #15 on: September 11, 2014, 04:51:09 pm
I hope I did not sound rude mathias  I very much value your opinion.

I am not sure what you mean though. Windmills have been around since  the antiquity. at that time they did not produce electricty but  instead was used for milling grain which it is why it is quite common to see them out on the fields. That is also why i thought it was appropriate to know which crop was on the field.(http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wind_power)




« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 04:54:31 pm by jahasaja »

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #16 on: September 11, 2014, 05:05:37 pm
I think his concern is that they're too small to be windmills, and shouldn't be right in the middle of the field, but beyond its border.  I don't know much about windmills or agricultural history, so I could be wrong, but it certainly looks too small and weirdly positioned to me. 

Offline Mathias

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #17 on: September 11, 2014, 06:06:51 pm
rikfuzz is right.



Hehe nah, it's all good.
Keep in mind, these are all just opinions. Everyone thinks a bit differently.
What's most important is what you think. You're the one making this project happen. We're just spectators.

. . .
I am not sure what you mean though.
. . .
Right - windmills are very old. They look great. I highly approve of your choice to use them.
But what I'm saying is - the way you're using them seems odd.
I don't think they would be located in the middle of a crop. Cargo wagons and such would need to come and go from each mill. Right now, it just looks like the workers, wagons, mules, etc needed to process the grain would wreck the crops, since I don't see any roads or evidence of any sort of production equipment anywhere nearby. It's approaching dream logic . . . ya know, like something surreal. That's all.
Maybe I'm overanalyzing. You decide.

___


Buuuuuut this thread is supposed to about "Wheat fields (need help with texture)" so, on-topic:
Your bg fields are interesting.
Awfully hilly, though. It appears that there are large rolling ridges of earth, high crests and deep troughs. Rather bizarre topography. BUT, it has character and it's catchy looking.
I recall your issues with perspective, working on the log cabin building in a different thread. I'm afraid you're exhibiting the same loose grip on perspective drawing here again.

Refer to Fizzick's Yorkshire shot. I think it's perfect:

Look at them green fields! So nice . . .

Question is - what degree of realism are you targeting? Is this super real, gritty, true-to-life artwork, or does it make some cartoonish exceptions?

You'll never please everyone.

Do what you think works the best.

Offline jahasaja

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Re: Wheat fields (need help with texture)

Reply #18 on: September 19, 2014, 01:22:56 pm
I set out on a quest to please everybody. However, after 3 different versions I came to terms with the fact that I cannot make stone walls even if my life depended on it.

instead I just moved the wind mills further away in order to make the perspective look better.

Anyway, except for an animated bird and clouds (I hate clouds) I think I am done with this level now. (and I feel slightly defeated by the power of stone walls)


 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 02:25:21 pm by jahasaja »