AuthorTopic: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art  (Read 20094 times)

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • Moderator
  • 0011
  • *
  • Posts: 979
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #80 on: December 08, 2014, 10:25:39 am
Quote
I apologise pre-emptively for how awful it looks
No worries.
Animating characters can be complicated and requires practice, but also some prior studies.
If you have not done the basic animation tests such as the Bouncing Ball, and Flour Sack, I highly encourage you to do so.

Be careful of drawing animations in a literal descriptive way.
Each part feels as if it moves independently rather than coming together to create a cohesive piece of functional art.

You're being very timid with the pixels, keeping things looking the same through out the animation.
While that can help to save time, and I use the same concept quite often, there are ways to better balance unique and static parts of a frame.

For me it helps to do the same animation 5 to 8 times.
Here's my first vartiation:


Many parts of it could be improved, but I would most likely stop at this point, save it to branched filename, and then start over.
The next time I would do it differently.
It would still be a sword swing, but I would start from the first frame, or completely from scratch.
Then compare them all, figure out what works, what doesn't.
Maybe combine a few ideas or just choose the best one and then finish it off.

Also realize that its all a choice.
Everything I've said can be done the complete opposite way and yield a valid result.
In the correct context with intention, your animation could work fine.
As Alcopopstar mentioned, the motion is sort of undead like.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline AshCrimson

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #81 on: December 08, 2014, 11:39:02 am
Quote
I apologise pre-emptively for how awful it looks
No worries.
Animating characters can be complicated and requires practice, but also some prior studies.
If you have not done the basic animation tests such as the Bouncing Ball, and Flour Sack, I highly encourage you to do so.

Be careful of drawing animations in a literal descriptive way.
Each part feels as if it moves independently rather than coming together to create a cohesive piece of functional art.

You're being very timid with the pixels, keeping things looking the same through out the animation.
While that can help to save time, and I use the same concept quite often, there are ways to better balance unique and static parts of a frame.

For me it helps to do the same animation 5 to 8 times.
Here's my first vartiation:


Many parts of it could be improved, but I would most likely stop at this point, save it to branched filename, and then start over.
The next time I would do it differently.
It would still be a sword swing, but I would start from the first frame, or completely from scratch.
Then compare them all, figure out what works, what doesn't.
Maybe combine a few ideas or just choose the best one and then finish it off.

Also realize that its all a choice.
Everything I've said can be done the complete opposite way and yield a valid result.
In the correct context with intention, your animation could work fine.
As Alcopopstar mentioned, the motion is sort of undead like.

Thanks so much for the advice, critique and edit. It's actually made me consider switching the angle of the character when he attacks. I'll confess i have little to no previous knowledge of animation or even art in general prior to picking up pixel-art, so this is sort of my first foray into art (although i have been pixelling for over a year+ now).

Often when im animating i focus solely on trying to get the (specific) limb moving in the correct way, often neglecting the bigger picture (the body and how it'd react), like Alcopopstar pointed out. I wasn't aware that i was being too literal with the advice given, i tend to take things literally, be they advice or words in general. Not an excuse, just wanted to explain my thought process.

Edit: I really like the edit, but i don't want to copy it, so im going to try to take elements of it and learn from it. Is that okay?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 01:15:45 pm by AshCrimson »

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • Moderator
  • 0011
  • *
  • Posts: 979
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #82 on: December 08, 2014, 10:55:08 pm
Quote
I really like the edit, but i don't want to copy it, so im going to try to take elements of it and learn from it. Is that okay?
Yep that's fine.
My animation is just an idea.
Attempt your own version manually, but don't be worried about making something similar.

There's a lot of compressed thought and knowledge in my edit. --> meaning I didn't take the time to explain it  :blind:
You're welcome to ask questions if you feel stumped.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline AshCrimson

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #83 on: December 09, 2014, 06:34:41 pm
Thanks for the reply PixelPileDriver!

I apologise pre-emptively for basically copying your edit; I was pretty confused as to how to even start, I've only ever animated limbs if im going to be honest, so i've never dealt with animating the torso and twisting it. I ended up going through your edit, frame by frame and trying to see what i could learn from it, such as the way you displayed the torso turning during the swing of the attack.



I realise it doesn't have much impact. Wasn't sure what to do with the empty hand and im pretty sure the swing itself looks off, that there's something wrong with it most likely because it doesn't have  blur lines yours did, but also because i think it doesn't look as natural or as fluid and still looks robotic.

Edit: Made one of the other perspective, might upload that for comparison.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:00:21 pm by AshCrimson »

Offline AlcopopStar

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.lachlancartland.com/index.html

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #84 on: December 11, 2014, 03:20:10 am
great progress! keep pushing it, Piledriver's process sounds like a really good (though time consuming :P) approach.

Offline Gil

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1540
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Too square to be hip
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/475.htm
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #85 on: December 11, 2014, 02:21:42 pm
Swashbuckler movies are a great reference for this kind of stuff and nothing beats this choreography:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L10fR31jC1w

Jordan Mechner actually rotoscoped this Erol Flynn scene for the sword fights in the original Prince of Persia. I'm a huge Erol Flynn fan (and a PoP fan :) )

Offline AshCrimson

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #86 on: December 11, 2014, 05:37:26 pm
Thanks for the comment AlcopopStar!

Had a look at that video Gil, must be the older robin hood movie?

Update:

Changed attack slightly, added front view attack as well:



Also spear/thrusting version:



I also wanted to see what it'd look like if it had a large shield (that covered up parts of the body and arm).

In regards to animation process, what i do is take something and keep at it until it's either right, or i have to change it completely and start the process again. Not very efficient but it's what i've done so far.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 05:44:23 pm by AshCrimson »

Offline Gil

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1540
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Too square to be hip
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/475.htm
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #87 on: December 11, 2014, 07:18:37 pm
Had a look at that video Gil, must be the older robin hood movie?
It's the 1938 one

Offline PixelPiledriver

  • Moderator
  • 0011
  • *
  • Posts: 979
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Yo!
    • View Profile
    • My Blog

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #88 on: December 13, 2014, 03:27:00 am
It's looking much better.  :)

Quote
I've only ever animated limbs if im going to be honest
Change this.
You don't have to stop animating cool dudes with swords.
Just rewind a bit sometime soon and animate some really basic stuff.
There is much experience you are missing that will help you with animating characters.
I would be more specific, but busy at the moment.

Quote
In regards to animation process, what i do is take something and keep at it until it's either right, or i have to change it completely and start the process again. Not very efficient but it's what i've done so far.
This is exactly what I was implying you should avoid.
There is a point you need to work up to, without just dumping an animation too quickly.
But I don't recommend to change a single animation over and over until you end up with a result you like.
Just as seeing my version gave you new ideas when you felt stuck, you need to be able to give yourself new ideas.
It can be very helpful to branch out to different ideas and create a basis of comparison.
The same design process you can use for finding a composition or character design can be applied to animation. --> with minor tweaks to the steps of course

If I get some time I will put together a series of animations to show the full process.
But no need to listen to me.
Keep hitting the pixels.
 :y:
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline AshCrimson

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C&C] General pixel-art

Reply #89 on: December 13, 2014, 05:39:59 pm
It's looking much better.  :)

Quote
I've only ever animated limbs if im going to be honest
Change this.
You don't have to stop animating cool dudes with swords.
Just rewind a bit sometime soon and animate some really basic stuff.
There is much experience you are missing that will help you with animating characters.
I would be more specific, but busy at the moment.

Quote
In regards to animation process, what i do is take something and keep at it until it's either right, or i have to change it completely and start the process again. Not very efficient but it's what i've done so far.
This is exactly what I was implying you should avoid.
There is a point you need to work up to, without just dumping an animation too quickly.
But I don't recommend to change a single animation over and over until you end up with a result you like.
Just as seeing my version gave you new ideas when you felt stuck, you need to be able to give yourself new ideas.
It can be very helpful to branch out to different ideas and create a basis of comparison.
The same design process you can use for finding a composition or character design can be applied to animation. --> with minor tweaks to the steps of course

If I get some time I will put together a series of animations to show the full process.
But no need to listen to me.
Keep hitting the pixels.
 :y:

I definitely see the wisdom in your advice!

Went back and redid the limbs and original position of the sword and made it so that there's an actual wind up animation and added the attack going further, rather than just suddenly stopping midway:



Previous version for comparison's sake:



I was actually looking back on some of my previous stuff i did, in an older style and thought that i might try that again:



Obviously way more animated than the prior two.