AuthorTopic: "Betelgeuse" TD shooter (NES restrictions)  (Read 21380 times)

Offline Carnivac

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 05:22:35 pm
I think the new palette is working a lot better than the old.  In the old I didn't like that blue in the tiles that seemed to burn out of the grey too much (I dunno if what I said made sense), now it seems more natural and somehow more atmospheric.

And as for the six small test shots of the dude's readibility I think either of the middle two work best.  At his size he does need to pop out more like he's doing there. 

And thanks about C.P.C. :)  I am still working on it in little bits (busy with a paid freelance project at moment) and trying to do a whole new tileset and also trying to update the engine from Game Maker 8.1 to Game Maker: Studio which is NOT easy (they've changed or removed various things I used in the game code) as GM:S is the one they update now and has the multi-platform support if you buy the modules and such.

I'm looking forward to giving this game a go when it's a playable thing.  I likes retro stuff with small, well defined sprites & tiles and tons of style which this has.   ;D
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Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #21 on: September 28, 2013, 12:17:33 am

Oh, hey! It is your article I read in that thread! I have same question as to ptoing - what is wrong in my mockup (don't say "everything", please))) and there will be difficulties with realization on NES?
I hate to be a killjoy, but If you're serious about hitting NES restrictions you will likely have to redo a lot.

Backgrounds get one color you can use anywhere. Then, you get four sets of three colors. No 16x16 pixel region may use more than the 3 colors from  any one set, plus that one color you can use anywhere.
Here is a screenshot of Super Mario Bros.:

Here are the sets of colors that screenshot uses for the background:

The blue at the top is the color that can be used across all the sets.
This is a breakdown of how the colors are used:

The blue grid breaks the image into 16x16 pixel areas. (Though the image is 2x for clarity). I pasted the number of each palette in the regions that use it. (I didn't do repeats, though. It's clear all the ? blocks use palette 4, so I only marked one of them.) Note that any area that is entirely blue does not have a number. This is because a solid blue area could use ANY of the four palettes, since that color can be used in any of them.

Now, here is a 32x32 portion of your mockup with a 16x16 grid (again, 2x for clarity):

I noted the colors used by each 16x16 region. You're using 5 to 6 colors in each region!
You only get set of 3 colors in each 16x16 pixel region + the universal one on NES. I know you didn't want to hear it, but there are barely any places at all in the mockup that use that few colors in a 16x16 pixel region.

Edit: Also, I'm confused, it seems like there are two versions of this. One that tries to be NES restricted, and one that doesn't. The one I used above has more colors than another one posted, but both are still over the limits.

To keep things clear, pick your sets of colors and post those as well. Then it's much easier for me (and everyone else) to see what your intended sets are supposed to be, and when you're going over. (Otherwise, I have to guess. And sometimes people use a different universal color than I expect and I guess wrong)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:19:15 am by Kasumi »
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.

Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #22 on: September 28, 2013, 11:30:56 pm
So I fudged this down to 4 palettes and the proper tile limits with the 2x2 tiles for one palette.
Still is a hilarious 614 8x8 tiles though :(


There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 03:08:43 pm
I think the new palette is working a lot better than the old.  In the old I didn't like that blue in the tiles that seemed to burn out of the grey too much (I dunno if what I said made sense), now it seems more natural and somehow more atmospheric.

Yes, but I still don't like how I reworked colors. Previous version:



..is much better than version with right colors:



Quote
And thanks about C.P.C. :)  I am still working on it in little bits (busy with a paid freelance project at moment) and trying to do a whole new tileset and also trying to update the engine from Game Maker 8.1 to Game Maker: Studio which is NOT easy (they've changed or removed various things I used in the game code) as GM:S is the one they update now and has the multi-platform support if you buy the modules and such.

I'm looking forward to giving this game a go when it's a playable thing.  I likes retro stuff with small, well defined sprites & tiles and tons of style which this has.   ;D

I more like 8.0 version, but yes, support of multi-platform is rules! ;D 

So I fudged this down to 4 palettes and the proper tile limits with the 2x2 tiles for one palette.
Still is a hilarious 614 8x8 tiles though :(



Oh, cool! Thank your for edit, ptoing, it's more NES-authentic.  :y: And sorry too, I should prepare mockup, before asking this question.

Now it's much cleared up for me. No any layers for tiles, ok.
And too much green and blue for my taste. Before I undertake NES restrictions, have to deal with colors. It will more easier now with your edit, thanx again!   :)

Edit: Also, I'm confused, it seems like there are two versions of this. One that tries to be NES restricted, and one that doesn't. The one I used above has more colors than another one posted, but both are still over the limits.

Yes, my fault, as I say to ptoing, sorry. ^__^ 

Quote
To keep things clear, pick your sets of colors and post those as well. Then it's much easier for me (and everyone else) to see what your intended sets are supposed to be, and when you're going over. (Otherwise, I have to guess. And sometimes people use a different universal color than I expect and I guess wrong)

Thanks for the reply! I'll rework mockup (or will rework ptoing's edit, haha) according that you wrote and post here with color sets, as on your example.  ;)



Drew hud and changed animation of dude, made he more "dwarfy" in diagonal directions - for more NES-authenticity:



Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 03:57:23 pm
Also, if you wanna make this really NES restricted, or perhaps get a coder to make it for the NES sometime, you should keep the tile limit into account. If you make it single screen you could have 256 tiles per screen I guess. But of course the HUD will take up tiles as well/or sprites.

Oh also, something I just noticed. The logo reads more like ROBOCZ than ROBOTZ.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 03:59:23 pm by ptoing »

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 04:33:40 pm
Also, if you wanna make this really NES restricted, or perhaps get a coder to make it for the NES sometime, you should keep the tile limit into account. If you make it single screen you could have 256 tiles per screen I guess. But of course the HUD will take up tiles as well/or sprites.

I see. And +256 blocks of 8x8 sprites (or 128 of 8x16), right?

Quote
Oh also, something I just noticed. The logo reads more like ROBOCZ than ROBOTZ.

All claims to artists of Synergy.  :D Title of game will be another, this is a temporary name and temporary logo.

Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 05:25:14 pm
Yeah, I think so. That's what can be in memory at the same time unless you got a cart that has extra memory, I guess. If you made your own hardware you could do a lot of things :P

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline r1k

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 10:31:26 pm
could someone clarify, are you allowed 256 tiles for background, plus another 256 tiles for sprites?  I thought it was 256 total, but when I checked the tilemap for zeldas overworld in an emulator I got this, which has 512 total tiles, including those used to make sprites.

Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 11:06:22 pm
From what I know you can have 256 for each. There are some carts I think which allow for more at the same time, but 256 is standard.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #29 on: October 02, 2013, 03:44:29 am
Yes, you get 512 tiles total. You can use half for sprites, half for background tiles. You can use the same set of 256 for both sprites and tiles. You can use all 512 for sprites using 8x16 mode, just one half (so 256) for tiles... Those are all the basic ones. But I'm not sure how important any of that is.
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.