AuthorTopic: "Betelgeuse" TD shooter (NES restrictions)  (Read 21377 times)

Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 03:13:41 pm
NTSC NES is more like 256x224 pixels afaik.

Also, which palette do you use?

This one is very accurate it seems. If you want NTSC palette that is. I dunno about the PAL one, if there is a similarly accurate one around.
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/utils/nespalette.php

Do you plan this to get made for an actual NES, or just the look?

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 03:46:16 pm
NTSC NES is more like 256x224 pixels afaik.

Also, which palette do you use?

This one is very accurate it seems. If you want NTSC palette that is. I dunno about the PAL one, if there is a similarly accurate one around.
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/utils/nespalette.php

I used "NTSC Palette with both Blue and Green Emphasized":



Found it in this thread. Now I understand that it was a mistake, just missed that it's not RGB colors, haha. Perhaps I should redraw all using a default palette.

Quote
Do you plan this to get made for an actual NES, or just the look?

Not sure that everything will turn out some way, but it would be great to make it on NES and release on cartridges.  :) Currently I'm using a game prototype maded in GameMaker to decide with gameplay, according to idea it will be a mix of Metroid and Gauntlet.

Offline ptoing

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #12 on: September 24, 2013, 04:03:32 pm
That palette you linked is totally off, don't use it. Use the one from that site I linked.
NTSC palettes in which the 4 rows (not counting the blacks/whites and greys) have largely differing lumas within rows are inaccurate.



Use the top one there. It seems to be the most accurate one arround. You can change the saturation/brightness and such on it if you want (since people can do it on TVs as well), but it is a solid baseline.

What you have atm would be VERY hard to port onto NES with it still looking like that.
You are breaking quite a lot of the restrictions. If you have specific questions let me know.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline kriss

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 04:14:06 pm
No offense but what is the meaning of the nes restriction palette? juste for fun ?

your work is amazing like stealers !

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 04:19:57 pm
What do you mean "the meaning"? He wants to make something with NES (Nintendo Entertainment System) restrictions, and as such should use the most accurate version of the palette we know. This is tricky with some old computers and consoles which do not handle their palettes using an RGB bitdepth model.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline kriss

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 04:34:43 pm
For me (is why i ask him his reasons ^^), when you use some restriction, it's because you want to improve but it's often because you want to use a system with restriction itself.
According to his skill and i doubt he'll make a game for nes, it seams he use this palette just for fun.
I posted my question in case there is another reason behind this ^^

I just have difficulty to restrain myself to use colors, it's why i'm always curious about it  :)

Offline Carnivac

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 05:20:07 pm
According to his skill and i doubt he'll make a game for nes, it seams he use this palette just for fun.
I posted my question in case there is another reason behind this ^^

Not sure that everything will turn out some way, but it would be great to make it on NES and release on cartridges.  :)

So yeah if Winged Doom is serious about wanting to put it on a real NES someday it'd be a good idea to learn about the limitations early on and design it around them so it'll be a lot simpler to get them working as intended on an actual NES when the time comes.  The whole thing with having to allocate various background and sprite palettes makes things a whole lot more difficult but actually quite rewarding in some ways too as a good challenge should be.
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Offline kriss

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 08:01:45 pm
sorry i didn't saw the part of discussion before i posted :-[

Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #18 on: September 24, 2013, 08:02:54 pm
NTSC NES is more like 256x224 pixels afaik.
I'd aim for 256x240. Some TVs used to hide the edges, though. Here's a fun article: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Overscan
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #19 on: September 27, 2013, 02:10:32 pm
Use the top one there. It seems to be the most accurate one arround. You can change the saturation/brightness and such on it if you want (since people can do it on TVs as well), but it is a solid baseline.
I rework mockup with this palette:



It's wip, now it's too dark and "underwater". Still need to work on colors of midtone and shadows, so color configuration can change.

Quote
What you have atm would be VERY hard to port onto NES with it still looking like that.
I want to go a classic way, as if development was carried out in 80s for the original console, without any modern tricks. So at first I'll focus on simplest configuration of cartridge - NROM-256/ PRG ROM 32 kb for code + 8 kb for graphics.

Quote
You are breaking quite a lot of the restrictions.
Can you tell more about that? On example of my mockap?

According to his skill and i doubt he'll make a game for nes, it seams he use this palette just for fun.
I posted my question in case there is another reason behind this ^^
You right, man, my skills not so good and I doing it for fun.
Anyway, this is very interesting. As a child, I dreamed of making games for NES, so now I realize my dream  :)

So yeah if Winged Doom is serious about wanting to put it on a real NES someday it'd be a good idea to learn about the limitations early on and design it around them so it'll be a lot simpler to get them working as intended on an actual NES when the time comes.  The whole thing with having to allocate various background and sprite palettes makes things a whole lot more difficult but actually quite rewarding in some ways too as a good challenge should be.

Well, I'm learn it. And being honest have no idea what I'm doing wrong or right at this moment.
Offtop: glad to know that you resumed the development of "Cosmic Prison Commando"   ;)

NTSC NES is more like 256x224 pixels afaik.
I'd aim for 256x240. Some TVs used to hide the edges, though. Here's a fun article: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Overscan

Oh, hey! It is your article I read in that thread! I have same question as to ptoing - what is wrong in my mockup (don't say "everything", please))) and there will be difficulties with realization on NES?
Don't want to complicate work of NES-programmer and scaring his any difficulties, that I can fix myself  ;D



So, progress of work. Decided to replace a couple of colors, because I used the same palette for Flame Badge graphics. Also, I was annoying by abundance of lilac color  :crazy:



In some rooms I'll use a different color scheme to create desired mood:



Following advice of ptoing, I tried to change all this colors using this palette:



At this moment trying to pick colors for midtones and shadows, that picture stayed solid and well-read:



+few test cases for color sheme of dude to improve his readability: