AuthorTopic: "Betelgeuse" TD shooter (NES restrictions)  (Read 20760 times)

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 08:48:39 pm
Yes, you get 512 tiles total. You can use half for sprites, half for background tiles. You can use the same set of 256 for both sprites and tiles. You can use all 512 for sprites using 8x16 mode, just one half (so 256) for tiles... Those are all the basic ones. But I'm not sure how important any of that is.

This is important, more tiles - more interesting decisions I can use in level design.
Sorry that didn't make promised mockup, too much work atm and I should finish current game.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #31 on: November 02, 2013, 05:47:36 pm
Still in process, some gameplay things and decorations:



Trying new nes colors (no any other restrictions):



Looks like a vomit, but maybe as an alternative color sheme.

+



+Short animation just for fun:



And enemies:



It's a bit Advance Wars-esque, because this is what I aspire to - all the objects must be compact and neat.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:51:03 pm by winged doom »

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #32 on: November 03, 2013, 06:51:31 pm
Kasumi, ptoing, I did it!  ;D



Level mockup with all NES restrictions - 3 colors per 16x16 tile (+black). But now I ask myself - what to do with the game objects over the tiles? Can I use other 3 colors palettes for them?
I mean this:




« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 10:06:03 pm by winged doom »

Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #33 on: November 04, 2013, 02:09:17 am
Quote
Level mockup with all NES restrictions - 3 colors per 16x16 tile (+black)
Well... not entirely, if this is supposed to be only tiles, you're still using too many colors in some regions. Here are some issues.

The HUD also breaks lots and lots of rules assuming you haven't intended to use sprites there. Like I said in an earlier post, I recommend you post the actual palettes you've chosen with the image so it's easier for everyone to check this stuff. Here are my guesses as to your intended background palettes:

If this is correct, it would mean any time you've used the reddish-purple or pink can't work among other things.

No, you can't do what you posted with the sprite, at least not in the way you posted. You don't get 3 colors+black (or whatever the universal color is) for each sprite. You get 3 colors (and transparent). If you choose black for one of those colors, you only get two others (and transparent).

That sprite is black, gray, purple, and light blue which is 4 colors. You'd need two sprite palettes and sprite overlaying to do that. It'd work like this (The two teals in the second palette are unused):

But sprite overlays should be used VERY sparingly, because of the eight sprite per scanline limitation.

The way to think about it is that the sprites are a layer drawn above the background. So that they can be drawn on top of the background without obscuring entire 8x8 pixel sections of it, each sprite palette has one color always reserved for transparency leaving the three others.

But sprites and backgrounds do not have to share palettes nor tiles.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 02:45:44 am by Kasumi »
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #34 on: November 04, 2013, 07:48:02 pm
Thank you for answer!

Quote
The HUD also breaks lots and lots of rules assuming you haven't intended to use sprites there. Like I said in an earlier post, I recommend you post the actual palettes you've chosen with the image so it's easier for everyone to check this stuff. Here are my guesses as to your intended background palettes:

So, here is the actual palettes for tiles:



(Through this I found a new errors with colors)

...And actual palettes for HUD:



Now I reworked it - fixed some colors and alighned all 3 color's elements with grid.

Quote
But sprite overlays should be used VERY sparingly, because of the eight sprite per scanline limitation.

Allright, now only 3 colors on the character/game object, not a great loss  :)



And question due to this - can I use different 3 color palettes for various animations/frames of one object? Like this tank on the bottom row of last picture. When tank makes a shot, it used the other colors.



And as the sum of all stuff:



Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #35 on: November 04, 2013, 08:57:08 pm
Quote
So, here is the actual palettes for tiles:
Okay, I'm going to start to sound super picky, but I meant just the colors of the four sets like I did for SMB.

The reason I am SO persistent about this is that you are not only limited to 1 set of 3 + a universal color per 16x16 region. You are also limited to just 4 sets.

So here are 4 sets already:

Meaning that absolutely everything that doesn't use those 4 sets can't work. Like all these:

One thing I might recommend is condensing the grays on any tile that doesn't use both. The top left region in my four sets image and the top left region in my can't work image use the same palette except the gray.
Quote
And question due to this - can I use different 3 color palettes for various animations/frames of one object? Like this tank on the bottom row of last picture. When tank makes a shot, it used the other colors.
Yes, you can do this.
Edit: Totally forgot to check the HUD. It's using even more palette sets than even the ones in the can't work image, and the numbers/minimap aren't tile aligned. It's technically possible to do things not tile aligned, but uh... I wouldn't.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:04:47 pm by Kasumi »
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #36 on: November 04, 2013, 09:23:42 pm
I specify, just in case - сan I use other 4 sets? For example from this picture:



or this:



Any "features" that I maybe could miss on your sets?

Quote
It's technically possible to do things not tile aligned, but uh... I wouldn't.

I'll fix it myself than, it will be much easier, hehe.

Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #37 on: November 04, 2013, 09:38:28 pm
I just picked a random 4 sets from your image. You can swap a set I've got in my "four sets" image and one from my "can't work" image. And then the one you've swapped in is fine, the one you've swapped out no longer is. :hehe: You can use whatever 4 sets you want (so long as they all share one color  ;D ), but there can be ONLY 4. Anything in the HUD that's tiles must ALSO use only those sets.

Quote
Any "features" that I maybe could miss on your sets?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. There aren't really ways to fight against these things, if that's what you mean. 1 universal color (you've chosen black), 4 sets of 3 colors. Each 16x16 region of tiles must use only 1 of those sets of 3 colors+the universal color.
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.

Offline winged doom

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #38 on: December 11, 2013, 08:27:45 pm
Now with 4 color sets:


+objects\enemies:


all sets step by step:


current version\previous version (12 sets):

« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 09:52:58 pm by winged doom »

Offline Kasumi

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Re: "Atari ST Robotz"-like shooter, but with NES restrictions

Reply #39 on: December 12, 2013, 06:53:41 am
Seems like you've got it except perhaps for the HUD. Great work!
I program NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES.