Feature 09 - Autumn Tileset WIP - Forest tileset

[Beetleking22]

Hello guys Im making a old school Snes/Gba Jrpg game and I want critisim about my autumn tile works.  This is my first time working on rpg tileset so I expect that there are errors in my work.


Trees-

Many have said that those trees have obvious perspective problem.. How I can fix that Perspective? That is my first tree And I'm not good at them.




Here is some works.






What you guys think?

[Lóng]

I think these look great, I like the pixeling and the colors going on here, the only thing I feel needs to be altered is that the trunks could be darkened up a bit to show that they are under the treetop.

Maybe something in this direction.

[Kazuya Mochu]

the only thing that bugs me is that the tree top seems to be tilted back. the trunk looks fine, compared to the floor. meaning it seems to share the same perspective lines. but the tree top looks like its falling back.
part I think because you see the back of the treetop lower then then from. which sugests it is sort of tilting back.

[PypeBros]

very lovely. I got the same feeling of the tree being non-vertical, but to be honest, I can live with a forest where trees are not vertical. I'm surprised that the top of the tree's canopy is so smooth, almost like an old-fashioned haystack :-/

those little patterns for flowers and grass are just marvelous!
How do you build such tree canopy, btw ? Do you have like a leaf-brush that you plot in due places, or do you rather go "it's not that hard to draw them all" ?

[Beetleking22]

Thank you guys from criticism I hope I don't disappointed you with my edit..







PypeBros..

I dont use leaf brush to make my leaf effect on tree..I first draw those triangle leaf and  I make 4 different type of triangle leaf and then I put them in shadows of tree canon one by one.  I hope you understood 

Thank you

Kazuya Mochu 

Long!

PypeBros..

[Facet]

Really nice colours 'n flowers 'n stuff so far, more please .

I don't think the view is that far off really (assuming 'RPG perspective') To avoid potential issues try mapping stuff onto and around a really basic wireframe like so and have a read of Cyangmou's thorough illustrated explanation here if you haven't already.

Some important stuff you could do to reinforce the projection:

• Overlap often to display priority. Try covering more of the trunk with the canopy, it looks a bit like the trunk is in front here.
• Similarily, cement a connection with the ground plane by placing roots behind the trunk as well as in front to avoid a cardboard cut-out effect. Try working upwards from a 'footprint' instead of fumbling for purchase when you reach the floor.

[Beetleking22]

Holy shit that edit  Here is my wip edit...  How the heck you did so good tree cornes I mean leaf cornes..

[Facet]

To try and avoid the impression of it being a smooth object with a flat drawing on it I just overlapped the borders and selectively outlined on the undersides. I've diagramed that and also generally how I'd use guidelines to map details onto contours convincingly ; getting progressively more shear as the form does. Hope it helps.



More autumnal ideas: Piles of leaves, ferns, fruit/nuts on the trees, ripe grain, brambles, pumpkins. Hedgehogs and foxes and squirrels. *wistful sigh*

[Beetleking22]

To try and avoid the impression of it being a smooth object with a flat drawing on it I just overlapped the borders and selectively outlined on the undersides. I've diagramed that and also generally how I'd use guidelines to map details onto convincing contours; getting progressively more shear as the form does. Hope it helps.



More autumnal ideas: Piles of leaves, ferns, fruit/nuts on the trees, ripe grain, brambles, pumpkins. Hedgehogs and foxes and squirrels. *wistful sigh*

Thank you very much Facet!  Im going to practise this thing..

Here is my ground tileset...  What you guys think? Do you think it is too simple? I have seen in many game simple ground tiles but I think this is too simple..

[PypeBros]

Thank you very much Facet!  Im going to practise this thing..

Here is my ground tileset...  What you guys think? Do you think it is too simple? I have seen in many game simple ground tiles but I think this is too simple..

Most of all, it's very square-ish. For leaves patch, organic boundaries would be better.

I'm applying the "seam points" technique posted some times ago by some folk here, but I failed to find the original post.
You might want to have diagonal tiles for such patches, not only squares (unless you're definitely focusing on "a screen-sized patch of no-leaves on which fighting can take place, of course).

[Jim16]

Beetleking22, it might look simple now, but in context with foliage and other things thrown into the mix it might work, or it might not. Simply by itself there's not much we can critique on. But do take PypeBros critique into good consideration, breaking formality is great (Breaking the grid I think they call it) as he has shown, as is the opposite,  perfecting it(Have a look at TomF's work). Two totally different things, but both work in my own experiance.

[Beetleking22]

Thank you very much Facet!  Im going to practise this thing..

Here is my ground tileset...  What you guys think? Do you think it is too simple? I have seen in many game simple ground tiles but I think this is too simple..

Most of all, it's very square-ish. For leaves patch, organic boundaries would be better.

I'm applying the "seam points" technique posted some times ago by some folk here, but I failed to find the original post.
You might want to have diagonal tiles for such patches, not only squares (unless you're definitely focusing on "a screen-sized patch of no-leaves on which fighting can take place, of course).

  Omg how i didn't notice that.. Thank you!

Jim16

Its seems like it work but  when I put some shade in the ground tiles it does not look good with rest. I want look at Tomfs work but i dont know where I can Finds is works Lol xD.

[Dr D]

That is a good example of TomF's recent work. With such a vivid and lively palette and rendering, it's obvious you're trying to go for something completely different. But as you can see, he embraces the grid on his tiles. I think that is what Jim16 meant.

Anyways, I think you should experiment around with some mockups and variations, and see what you like the best.

Based on your original mockup, though, it's already looking quite good, me and many others love the style, try not to lose that.

[PypeBros]

Its seems like it work but  when I put some shade in the ground tiles it does not look good with rest. I want look at Tomfs work but i dont know where I can Finds is works Lol xD.

http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/12821.htm
and 2dhero.com, iirc.

[Beetleking22]

That is a good example of TomF's recent work. With such a vivid and lively palette and rendering, it's obvious you're trying to go for something completely different. But as you can see, he embraces the grid on his tiles. I think that is what Jim16 meant.

Anyways, I think you should experiment around with some mockups and variations, and see what you like the best.

Based on your original mockup, though, it's already looking quite good, me and many others love the style, try not to lose that.

I love TomF works very much but my style is much simpler than Tomf. I tried to test how it looks if i make very similar leaf texture than Tomf.. And this is the result. I added more than green color imo because it looked boring with my green colors.



My style is little bit like zelda and mother 3 mix. I like very simple style.

[PypeBros]

But as you can see, [TomF] embraces the grid on his tiles

Please, enlighten me. I don't see grid embracing, to be honest.

I do see corners that have been round-shaped,
I do see grass pattern that's up to 32x32 in size while grass patches are at most 8x8
I do see grass-to-dirt boundaries that use value to promote the illusion of irregular shape while hue gives a clue on where the collision box for sprites stand.

[Seiseki]

Well you can still clearly see each area and where the border goes.
It doesn't have to be completely straight and square to be "embracing the grid".
If he wasn't embracing the grid, there would be a lot more variation in the tiles and additional tiles to break things up.

What game is that btw? Looks great!

[Beetleking22]

So there is my Solid rock texture  wip and it was hard to make  any critic about this one?

[Seiseki]

Perhaps larger or more straight shapes and harsher shadows, it looks a bit leaves now..
Wait, I think I see what you're going for now. Perhaps use gray rocks or darker brown to make it stand out more.

[PypeBros]

If he wasn't embracing the grid, there would be a lot more variation in the tiles and additional tiles to break things up.

Oh, I see.
"one 32x32 <ground/wall/left-border/right-border/whatever> tile ought to be enough for everybody".
That kind of embracing.

He did it well, indeed.

[Beetleking22]

Perhaps larger or more straight shapes and harsher shadows, it looks a bit leaves now..

Yeah i agree.. Larger rocks seems like a realistic. So i made some of rock much larger.. I believe that this rock lack of brightness..

Wait, I think I see what you're going for now. Perhaps use gray rocks or darker brown to make it stand out more.

Im not sure but  I loved that Indigo pixel work where there was Brown and Grey color mixed in his rocks..

[Ichigo Jam]

I've been staring at this for a while, but I'm confused by exactly what's happening in the bottom half of the image - is it a dark hole? or a pile of dark brown mud?

I like the top half (and your colour choice in general is very nice), but you might need to push the contrast on the rocks up a bit to make it easily readable as a solid obstruction. (Though it's somewhat hard to judge in isolation)

[Beetleking22]

I've been staring at this for a while, but I'm confused by exactly what's happening in the bottom half of the image - is it a dark hole? or a pile of dark brown mud?

I like the top half (and your colour choice in general is very nice), but you might need to push the contrast on the rocks up a bit to make it easily readable as a solid obstruction. (Though it's somewhat hard to judge in isolation)

Better 

[Beetleking22]

I have been always struggling when I'm drawing a rock texture for rpg game or Side Scroll.. I really want understand  how make a proper and nice Rock texture. Can you guys give me a lesson to my head 

I do always so many rock texture but I never like Them so I throw them into the trash because there is always something  I dont like it.

[rikfuzz]

I love drawing rock textures! 

Here's a couple I've made:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1534394/cave_tiles.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1534394/penguin_map.png

Here are some other inspirations:
http://kennethfejer.com/images/dustmountain.png  (Kenneth Fejer's work).
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/114/reviews/938078_20070425_screen001.jpg (Beyond Oasis on megadrive)

I think about mine as being quite angular, where yours appear smooth.  But if they're a bit sharper, you can make some nice shapes by thinking about the colours of each face.  And you can have some nice areas where the edges between two faces can catch the light if the rocks are big enough. 

Having said that I quite like your last one (top right), maybe just needs a wider tile (/two tiles) for variation. 

[AlexHW]

What you seem to be struggling with is how to represent the surface angles of the rocks- how to shade and define edges.
I did some videos in the past pertaining rocks that you may find useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAGokCLaAHk <- talking about surfaces/angles and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwmlaXdP1mA <- recording of me pixeling some rock stuff

[Facet]

Yeah, your rockface does look quite flat because you're concentrating on texturing a single surface rather than modelling form proper. There's myriad ways to evoke rocks of course but a lot concentrate on sharply differentiated planes. Previous thread on the subject here.

I've put some ideas down here for a better sense of dimension; first I'd think about darkening the face as a whole to make explicit the obstacle (that you can't walk on it) by extension I'd go for more of a lip on the sides to try and migate some of the ineveitable height parsing issues in this kind of view. You can also try and reinforce the base foreshortening factor in your texturing by keeping elements broader than taller. You're already suggesting a nice vertical gradient (light>dark/high>low) which is great for depth so keep doing that .



I merged your threads since they're concerning the same tileset and it's easier to follow that way. In the future just change the title of the thread.

[Beetleking22]

Thank you rikfuzz, Alex Hanson-White, Facet  I'm really grateful for this knowledge.. I learned a lot and im going to learn more! I'm very sorry facet that I made another Theard 

 I did this edit quickly it is little bit mess but I fix it later... Now there is less flat than before and I added some light and dark shadow in middle.

[Facet]

No problem and no need to apologise, keep at it

I think you could go a lot further; you're still using many small, consistently sized particles and just adding a highlight/column. Here's a rounded 'hunks' example with more variation and sense of form. Try thinking about form by working dark to light, starting really simply with a variety of shapes in midtones and adding flat shades by thinking about where light might fall on them.



If you really want to understand the idea thoroughly so that you can apply it in other situations I'd experiment, very roughly, with many different approaches. I edited my previous examples with another pattern too.

[Beetleking22]

No problem and no need to apologise, keep at it

I think you could go a lot further; you're still using many small, consistently sized particles and just adding a highlight/column. Here's a rounded 'hunks' example with more variation and sense of form. Try thinking about form by working dark to light, starting really simply with a variety of shapes in midtones and adding flat shades by thinking about where light might fall on them.



If you really want to understand the idea thoroughly so that you can apply it in other situations I'd experiment, very roughly, with many different approaches. I edited my previous examples with another pattern too.

Okay i'm trying understand this but those tiles need to be a also repeated.. I tried to make different shapes rock .. It is still wip...

[Facet]

Great! , really convincing modelling.

You could still retain the rounded look you seemed to favour previously if you wanted, but the super sharp perfect-angle look does match the tree from earlier. Perhaps the edge highlights are a little excessive/uniform (stone isn't usually so reflective) and you could consider reflected light to help define corners/undersides as well Snake does this a lot in Owlboy but much improvement already.

How does it look in context?

[Beetleking22]

Great! , really convincing modelling.

You could still retain the rounded look you seemed to favour previously if you wanted, but the super sharp perfect-angle look does match the tree from earlier. Perhaps the edge highlights are a little excessive/uniform (stone isn't usually so reflective) and you could consider reflected light to help define corners/undersides as well Snake does this a lot in Owlboy but much improvement already.

How does it look in context?

Jep I agree there is too much edge highlights and Imo those rocks look too sharp with edge Highlights... If I remove those Highlights it does looks little bit like a empty.. If i want to put reflected light I must have to use a less bright colors right? So the dark to light method is very useful there.

  Here is another try..

[Beetleking22]

Little update: Any critic?



I got little inspiration from Alex Hanson-White rock.

[API-Beast]

I would use the highlights more sparingly, you should pay attention that you build up a visual priority in your tilesets. Think about what should attract attention and what shouldn't. Gameplay elements usually have the highest priority and backgrounds the lowest. These rock-walls are background elements and thus shouldn't attract too much attention. Attention is created by contrast, details/noise and depth. These highlighted edges are probably a bit much.

[Beetleking22]

I would use the highlights more sparingly, you should pay attention that you build up a visual priority in your tilesets. Think about what should attract attention and what shouldn't. Gameplay elements usually have the highest priority and backgrounds the lowest. These rock-walls are background elements and thus shouldn't attract too much attention. Attention is created by contrast, details/noise and depth. These highlighted edges are probably a bit much.

Yeap I agree.. Many have said in this theard that those wall rock has too much highlight.. Im trying now avoid them much ass possible.

[Dr D]

Little update: Any critic?

I honestly prefer the original version (EDIT: of the small rock) more. The colors, the little blue-green highlights. I think they probably fit better in your game's world, too.

You can change the highlights and colors to match the look of the cliff wall, but I honestly think you should keep them.

[Beetleking22]

Little update: Any critic?

I honestly prefer the original version (EDIT: of the small rock) more. The colors, the little blue-green highlights. I think they probably fit better in your game's world, too.

You can change the highlights and colors to match the look of the cliff wall, but I honestly think you should keep them.

I really didn't like those small rock.. they looked like sawn tree trunk more than rock to me.
.
This is how it looks with new rocks.

[API-Beast]

haha, didn't even notice that the old one had rocks in them.

Little color edit, reduced the greens a bit and increased the blues.

The problem with green is that green is perceived much brighter than any other color so they overshadow all the other colors when used to that amount. (Blue is the weakest of all colors, so it primarily just adds a certain tint.)

[PypeBros]

I really didn't like those small rock.. they looked like sawn tree trunk more than rock to me.

Imho, the new rocks are technically superior. Small leaves on the top and enough grass/leaves at the base looks to be the key to make them integrate the mock up well (larger one may need slightly more grass on the bottom and the left).

They make the overall mockup significantly more busy, though, as they are larger. Your somehow moving your mockup from "close to the forest" towards "close to the mountains" with them.

[Beetleking22]

haha, didn't even notice that the old one had rocks in them.

Little color edit, reduced the greens a bit and increased the blues.

The problem with green is that green is perceived much brighter than any other color so they overshadow all the other colors when used to that amount. (Blue is the weakest of all colors, so it primarily just adds a certain tint.)

Thats looks more better  What program did you use in that? That does not look like adobe photoshop.

I really didn't like those small rock.. they looked like sawn tree trunk more than rock to me.

Imho, the new rocks are technically superior. Small leaves on the top and enough grass/leaves at the base looks to be the key to make them integrate the mock up well (larger one may need slightly more grass on the bottom and the left).

They make the overall mockup significantly more busy, though, as they are larger. Your somehow moving your mockup from "close to the forest" towards "close to the mountains" with them.

Thank you pypebros I agree with you it needs more grass/leaves. I must make also small rock because large rocks are only suitable for certain places..

[Beetleking22]

So I made 4 new color varition.. wich one are better?

[tim]

There is no "better". They are not real variations, juste subtle saturation & contrast adjustments, so it's all about your needs in your game. What feeling this place needs to convey ? Is it a safe place near the beginning of the game, or is it a decaying forest near the evil castle ? This is the kind of question you need to ask yourself.

[API-Beast]

You should really tone down the green, large amounts of green hurt.

[Beetleking22]

There is no "better". They are not real variations, juste subtle saturation & contrast adjustments, so it's all about your needs in your game. What feeling this place needs to convey ? Is it a safe place near the beginning of the game, or is it a decaying forest near the evil castle ? This is the kind of question you need to ask yourself.

That is good point but Im not going to use these adjustment for other places.. I want those for only 1 place.

[Crow]

You should really tone down the green, large amounts of green hurt.

The green is of low saturation in the original mockup and both #1 and #2 of Beetleking's color variations. I find it rather pleasing actually. Have you tried looking at it on another screen?

[TheMonsterAtlas]

That is good point but Im not going to use these adjustment for other places.. I want those for only 1 place.

Then you would need more than just different saturation adjustments. You need some trees that are more brown, some trees that are more yellow and some trees that are more red. (Adjusting the levels would look silly.) It's all in the leaves. Also the grass looks a little too lively. It's autumn, so there should be leaves on the ground.

[Jeremy]

I prefer #1 and #3. Probably #3 if I had to pick.

Their angularity is obviously part of the style, but I think that the leaves could be arranged better, to make sure that the foliage is round.

I'd also consider adding a bit more AA to the rocks, just on the jaggier angles between higher-contrast areas:

[Beetleking22]

I prefer #1 and #3. Probably #3 if I had to pick.

Their angularity is obviously part of the style, but I think that the leaves could be arranged better, to make sure that the foliage is round.

I'd also consider adding a bit more AA to the rocks, just on the jaggier angles between higher-contrast areas:

Yeah that was the style thats why I didint want putt too much AA.

That is good point but Im not going to use these adjustment for other places.. I want those for only 1 place.

Then you would need more than just different saturation adjustments. You need some trees that are more brown, some trees that are more yellow and some trees that are more red. (Adjusting the levels would look silly.) It's all in the leaves. Also the grass looks a little too lively. It's autumn, so there should be leaves on the ground.

I know that I wantend make hue saturation change because the old one had low saturation. That was it..


New update: tree leaves.. Imo I like new one more much better than old one because now there is much more leaf variation than old one

[PypeBros]

#3 or #4 gets my preference, but I'm loving friendly and warm atmosphere in videogames, so that dictate my choice. Instead, *your* choice should be dictated by the atmosphere you want to create. Bright green is fine for younger (or nostalgic) audience who'd rather slice rabbites and pumpkins than zombies or freaky monsters.
At a second look, colours in #3 could be slightly over-burnt and #4 would be my final preference.

The new tree has definitely a more interesting volume and the smaller leaves imho work very well: they're better blending into a general shape and do no longer draw so much attention. I'll have to study how you managed to do that.

[Beetleking22]

#3 or #4 gets my preference, but I'm loving friendly and warm atmosphere in videogames, so that dictate my choice. Instead, *your* choice should be dictated by the atmosphere you want to create. Bright green is fine for younger (or nostalgic) audience who'd rather slice rabbites and pumpkins than zombies or freaky monsters.
At a second look, colours in #3 could be slightly over-burnt and #4 would be my final preference.

The new tree has definitely a more interesting volume and the smaller leaves imho work very well: they're better blending into a general shape and do no longer draw so much attention. I'll have to study how you managed to do that.

If you want study this better than me i suggest some slym works 

Little update: Now with outline and better trunk





Huge improvement Thank you all guys!

[Grimsane]

nice progress, the new one definitely works much better.

the trees perspective fits, and one thing I've noticed that improves it's autumn-ness a lot is the colours are more warm, and the balance of contrast and saturation in your latest works quite well.

only thing I noticed after looking at it awhile is that the clusters of flowers seem to be in a different ground perspective than everything else, but I suppose it's not that noticeable.

[Beetleking22]

nice progress, the new one definitely works much better.

the trees perspective fits, and one thing I've noticed that improves it's autumn-ness a lot is the colours are more warm, and the balance of contrast and saturation in your latest works quite well.

only thing I noticed after looking at it awhile is that the clusters of flowers seem to be in a different ground perspective than everything else, but I suppose it's not that noticeable.

Thank Grimsane and thank you for finding that little problem


New tree color

[jams0988]

I actually like your old style leaves more...they were very symbolic looking, but I don't think that's a bad thing. It looked very unique. Reminded me a bit of Animal Crossing or Link to the Past, in that it favored style over realism. The new leaves also look a little too fluffy for me. It feels like I should pet your trees now!
My favorite version so far is the "Old" on in your four color comparison chart thing. The muted colors working with the symbolic leaves really give off an Autumn atmosphere to me. =)

The new one's nice too, though!

[imnumberfour]

I love TomF works very much but my style is much simpler than Tomf. I tried to test how it looks if i make very similar leaf texture than Tomf.. And this is the result. I added more than green color imo because it looked boring with my green colors.



My style is little bit like zelda and mother 3 mix. I like very simple style.

You ever going to work this into it?

[Beetleking22]

I love TomF works very much but my style is much simpler than Tomf. I tried to test how it looks if i make very similar leaf texture than Tomf.. And this is the result. I added more than green color imo because it looked boring with my green colors.



My style is little bit like zelda and mother 3 mix. I like very simple style.

You ever going to work this into it?

If you mean the road then yes.. here is little Wip progress if you wan to see it...

[PypeBros]

although the trunks and trees are much more interesting to look at in their latest incarnation, there's something odd about it: the tail of the roots are now pointing *upwards* ... that's very nice design for wood-crafted armchair but you're deliberately going in the opposite way reality goes.

(that may have been the intent, but if that's not the case, roots might need a final edit).

[imnumberfour]

If you mean the road then yes.. here is little Wip progress if you wan to see it...

Hopefully you are still going to have thje multicoloured foliage?

[Beetleking22]

although the trunks and trees are much more interesting to look at in their latest incarnation, there's something odd about it: the tail of the roots are now pointing *upwards* ... that's very nice design for wood-crafted armchair but you're deliberately going in the opposite way reality goes.

(that may have been the intent, but if that's not the case, roots might need a final edit).

There is actually one root that is pointing upwards but its still need final edit maybe?... Perhaps lack of realism is good sometimes?.. I have seen in zelda unrealistic tree and it still look aweseome..

If you mean the road then yes.. here is little Wip progress if you wan to see it...

Hopefully you are still going to have thje multicoloured foliage?

Foliage yes but Im not sure if multicoloured works.. have to try again 

[Beetleking22]

So the foliage is almost done.. Any critic?

[API-Beast]

I think the less detailed version worked better with the style especially since the grass and the road are just flat colors too. You should just put such detail into the objects which should be in the foreground (such as the trees)

[Hideon]

I edited a bit the leafs, because I think they need another perspective.

I love that tileset anyway and I think you are doing a brilliant job on it.

[Beetleking22]

I think the less detailed version worked better with the style especially since the grass and the road are just flat colors too. You should just put such detail into the objects which should be in the foreground (such as the trees)

I agree..  I think foliage suit better with rock texture..

Here is little update:: New grass, Flower, Stone texture have now much more detail than before. Critic is always welcome.

[Pizza Tom]

I think you might be over-doing it a little with the most recent edit. The detail work you have is all very nice, but it's so dense that I get kind of lost in it. Your ground actually has so much going on that I feel like I shouldn't walk on any of it, for fear of crushing the flowers. The trees might also have a bit too much contrast in comparison to the rest. Everything else is a bit softer looking (in a good way!), like the bush.

[API-Beast]

The grass is a bit repetive no? I think fewer/smaller (and maybe more detailed) patches of grass would work better. It shouldn't be a texture but rather a detail.

[TheMonsterAtlas]

I don't think it's repetitive, so much as filling up a lot of space. I think if you cut down on a lot of that grass it will look way better. Using flowers, rocks and weeds are accents to your map, not the main point. (Unless the weed/rock/flower has a quest or story for it, it should never be the center of your attention.)

[Dusty]

I much prefer the old one, 10-fold. The new flowers, the new grass... it all lost the cartoony, simple charm of the original and now feels like it's too much detail being crammed into a single image.

[Beetleking22]

Yes you guys are right there is too much grass but I think new grass texture is better than old one.

[PypeBros]

flowers are not quite autumn-themed, are they ?
As for the grass texture, one thing I see that do not work is that you now have larger patches of identical colour, which makes the transition of one colour to the next one more "aggressive" and eye-catching.

It also makes the transition between grass tiles and plain tiles more visible and "griddy". To be honest, I'd keep that new tile for places where you don't have other things (grass-only screens), preferably surrounded by the older pattern as "buffer", since there's more empty space in the older one.

[Cyangmou]

I think both are good but extremely repetitive. The older one is more pleasing to the eyes than the newer one, because the grass in the newer one makes too much detail where detail isn't necessary at all. Because you use the same clusters over and over it looks to me more like wall paper than grass.
By mixing some of the new clusters in your old texture, you'll get a touch more variety, but keep the general soft and pleasing appeareance of the old one.

Apart from that I ask myself if it's a good possibility to have texture flowers and object flowers in the same tileset. I had the same problem, but I don't found an answer.

I think that you should alter the bush leaves in the same way like you altered you tree textures. Also making the darkest part (lower half) a bit darker could improve the 3d-ness a bit.

But all in all it looks already great, and if you want to hear my opinion: work on and make more stuff, it's always possible to (ex)change things later. You have a great style there and I wonder how the charakters and the other stuff will look like. If it's for a "real" game it's more important to get lots of stuff done, instead of perfectionizing all in the first round. You'll always find something which you can improve later.

[Beetleking22]

I think both are good but extremely repetitive. The older one is more pleasing to the eyes than the newer one, because the grass in the newer one makes too much detail where detail isn't necessary at all. Because you use the same clusters over and over it looks to me more like wall paper than grass.
By mixing some of the new clusters in your old texture, you'll get a touch more variety, but keep the general soft and pleasing appeareance of the old one.

This is good advice thank you.. I really like make more variety for grass texture and I agree the old one looks more like a wallpaper..

But all in all it looks already great, and if you want to hear my opinion: work on and make more stuff, it's always possible to (ex)change things later. You have a great style there and I wonder how the charakters and the other stuff will look like. If it's for a "real" game it's more important to get lots of stuff done, instead of perfectionizing all in the first round. You'll always find something which you can improve later.

This is my forever project so there is no timeline or budget but i take still this advice so thank you!

[Beetleking22]

As you can see my rock texture is still shitty and i still struggling with rock and i need practise more.. Now i changed hue and etc.. Wich one fit/looks better? Grass color is new also.. Do you think its too bright?

[Crow]

I like the old grass color more, but prefer the new rock color. One thing that's bugging me is that patch of pure darkness towards the bottom. Always kind of looks like there's two sides and a hole in the middle, with some rocks/cliffs. I don't think that's intended, is it?

[philippejugnet]

I think the less detailed version worked better with the style especially since the grass and the road are just flat colors too. You should just put such detail into the objects which should be in the foreground (such as the trees)

I agree..  I think foliage suit better with rock texture..

Here is little update:: New grass, Flower, Stone texture have now much more detail than before. Critic is always welcome.

Its lovely the way you did it and the color usage on the grass, but it doesn't fit the style of the rest of the piece  it looks like manupix's style.

I would go for something more like this, but don't over use it, just add this grass efect in some places, near trees and whenever you feel like the floor is too empty.
BTW, IMO you should finish all of your ideas instead of posting all the progress and lots of pieces @ PJ. I think you should add a character somewhere. In that mood I would do a character sleeping by the tree or something .
I like it a lot, nice improvement.

for some reason it looks like the borders work on the rocks but not on the trees, probably because the trees seem to be more circunferencial and near the borders its already dark and it doesnt add contrast at all, and the rocks do not, the contrast on the tree is good; and I think you don't need any border on them, try to add the same effects to the rocks maybe :p.

[Beetleking22]

I like the old grass color more, but prefer the new rock color. One thing that's bugging me is that patch of pure darkness towards the bottom. Always kind of looks like there's two sides and a hole in the middle, with some rocks/cliffs. I don't think that's intended, is it?

Its funny because Old and New one have same grass color  ... Did you mean something even older grass color?

[API-Beast]

The color is perceived differently because the environment changed.

[Crow]

Its funny because Old and New one have same grass color  ... Did you mean something even older grass color?

Oh, how very right you are. That is weird. Crammed in these little mockups, though, it does feel more saturated than it did before, which I don't like. I really dig the not so much saturated color of the grass. Keep that!

Still, what about that patch of darkness? Any particular reason?

[Beetleking22]

Its funny because Old and New one have same grass color  ... Did you mean something even older grass color?

Oh, how very right you are. That is weird. Crammed in these little mockups, though, it does feel more saturated than it did before, which I don't like. I really dig the not so much saturated color of the grass. Keep that!

Still, what about that patch of darkness? Any particular reason?

It was wip  thats why there was a Patch of darkness...

So here is my new rock  texture..  I belive it has too much highlight but i really I dont know how to make rock without highlight..

[ptoing]

Some rock thing I did quite some time ago without super sharp highlights.



I think the main problem you got with your rocks is that they look very regular, too regular anyway, to be natural. I would make the tiles a bit bigger or make more tiles to get more variety.

[Beetleking22]

Some rock thing I did quite some time ago without super sharp highlights.



I think the main problem you got with your rocks is that they look very regular, too regular anyway, to be natural. I would make the tiles a bit bigger or make more tiles to get more variety.

Thank you Ptoing thats helped me a lot <3 Different shapes really make rock better and more natural


Here is update:: It still wip but I like the result..

[ptoing]

That already is worlds better. Try and pull some of the highlights into the surfaces a bit, not just single pixel razor highlights.

And vary the top and bottom of the tile some.

[Beetleking22]

That already is worlds better. Try and pull some of the highlights into the surfaces a bit, not just single pixel razor highlights.

And vary the top and bottom of the tile some.

Im going to try now  put more highlight into the surface... I think it looks also more better if i make more fizzures.


Better?



No double posts please. Merged. - Crow

[Crow]

The orientation of things seems all over the place. I really can't tell if I'm looking at a wall, floor or a mix of both here.

[Beetleking22]

The orientation of things seems all over the place. I really can't tell if I'm looking at a wall, floor or a mix of both here.

It is one of wall texture thats why its looks like a floor/wall now... When i make corners and foliage it is going to look more like rock..

[API-Beast]

Thing is there is something called gravity so the rocks wouldn't have completely random orientations. The forces apply differently in the vertical and the horizontal axis and too extreme rock structures will just break down.

[Beetleking22]

Its going to look like this..

[TheMonsterAtlas]

Another thing to think about is that it doesn't look like the side of a cliff, it looks like a pile of rocks. With ptoing's example, they aren't individual rocks, they are ledges created from erosion/people punching the cliff side because they smell like booty cheeks.

[Beetleking22]

So is there something wrong? I did not understand well but I have seen in a lot snes game rocks with pile of rocks.. Example Secret of mana, Terranigma...

[PypeBros]

Imho, the new version is indeed better, but I think you overdid the cracks. Having them on almost every stone is a bit extreme, and you used random directions, too.

So is there something wrong? I did not understand well but I have seen in a lot snes game rocks with pile of rocks.. Example Secret of mana, Terranigma...

Many of those SNES games were made in a rush, when you listen to their own creators. You can indeed gain the feel of "a strong, coherent barrier (a cliff) if you reinforce one major force that has been applied almost uniformly to all the rocks.

Imho, this rock texture could do well in most terrains, but if you're going for a level "ŕ la Mt. Tamaranch", they will not work. Rationale is that, on a regular terrain with small (<6m) cliffs, noone would be surprised if rocks have piled up following the slope. In a mountain, the rocks that remain are supposed to be firmly connected with the core of the mountain.

[Beetleking22]

Imho, the new version is indeed better, but I think you overdid the cracks. Having them on almost every stone is a bit extreme, and you used random directions, too.

Yeah I agree.. There is too much cracks but random directions is fine because it does not matter where you put these cracks and I really think i must  also lower the constrast.. Imo it is too bright..

Imho, this rock texture could do well in most terrains, but if you're going for a level "ŕ la Mt. Tamaranch", they will not work. Rationale is that, on a regular terrain with small (<6m) cliffs, noone would be surprised if rocks have piled up following the slope. In a mountain, the rocks that remain are supposed to be firmly connected with the core of the mountain.

Is this Mt.tamaranch level? Its seems like its work even with these rocks..

http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/SecretOfMana-LoftyMountains.png
http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/Terranigma-Loire-EastSub-Area.png

[PypeBros]

if you look at the bottom half, of this lofty mountain map, it has the "Mt Tamarrach" layout, with large vertical walls. You will note that chunks of rocks here are aligned in one direction (vertical), and the base of each "spike" could be going further down "behind" the "lower" spikes.

E.g. imho, working from gives it more a "cliff" look.

random directions is fine because it does not matter where you put these cracks

That's true for random pile of rocks that had cracks from random reasons.
If instead you want to render a cliff -- a large part of rock that for some reason had been extruded from the ground by some geological process -- then the rocks are initially part of the same strata, cristals are laid out along one major direction, and the eroding force (wind, sand, water, mana ...) is likely to blow along one major direction, exploiting inherent weakness of the cristals to fracture the structures, hence lower diversity in the cracks orientation.

Now, of course, this only make sense if you aim for that type of terrain.

[Beetleking22]

if you look at the bottom half, of this lofty mountain map, it has the "Mt Tamarrach" layout, with large vertical walls. You will note that chunks of rocks here are aligned in one direction (vertical), and the base of each "spike" could be going further down "behind" the "lower" spikes.

E.g. imho, working from gives it more a "cliff" look.

But most of rpg game rock have that Mt Tamarrach layout and Im going to make it as well and my old one have it too..

random directions is fine because it does not matter where you put these cracks
That's true for random pile of rocks that had cracks from random reasons.
If instead you want to render a cliff -- a large part of rock that for some reason had been extruded from the ground by some geological process -- then the rocks are initially part of the same strata, cristals are laid out along one major direction, and the eroding force (wind, sand, water, mana ...) is likely to blow along one major direction, exploiting inherent weakness of the cristals to fracture the structures, hence lower diversity in the cracks orientation.
cwill always have certain direction
Now, of course, this only make sense if you aim for that type of terrain

I tough that rock can crack on all direction.. If thats true then It  does not matter if i make random cracks..


Tiny update:: Now the flat texture looks more like a cliff..  Im trying now reduce some highlight... oH Dam is this double post??
It was a double post. - Crow

[Facet]

Really nice improvements here all round, despite your protestations earlier that you preferred a simpler style this is becoming really rather lush and naturalistic .

New rocks look great technique-wise, it is quite hard to see how it'll work as an overhead view cliff without the surrounding tileset though, I would try roughing things out with place-holder tiles whilst working, in order to avoid potential issues.

The horizontal tiling shown earlier looks a bit awkward for squeezing in smaller pieces towards the join. Also, having grey stand-alone rocks next to brown rock-faces is a bit strange in terms of continuity. I'd consider the grey for the cliffs also, because there's already a lot of brown in play, but again it's best to see how it works as a scene.

[Beetleking22]

Little update: New Rock color!! Better?

Really nice improvements here all round, despite your protestations earlier that you preferred a simpler style this is becoming really rather lush and naturalistic .

  thank you.. I really dont know how to make pretty looking simple rock texture that would fit my background..

The horizontal tiling shown earlier looks a bit awkward for squeezing in smaller pieces towards the join. Also, having grey stand-alone rocks next to brown rock-faces is a bit strange in terms of continuity. I'd consider the grey for the cliffs also, because there's already a lot of brown in play, but again it's best to see how it works as a scene.

Ahh that was a sketch ... I wantend only show more cliff look rock and im going to fix those thing later..

New rocks look great technique-wise, it is quite hard to see how it'll work as an overhead view cliff without the surrounding tileset though, I would try roughing things out with place-holder tiles whilst working, in order to avoid potential issues.

Im really stuck now.. My new rocks looks very shiny and large and I want make more detailed and realistic rock but i dont know how make them more detailed... As you
 can see this part, I get inspiration from Chrono trigger rock mountain..  Can I mix them with my other rocks? Or should i Make every rock with same style?

 

[API-Beast]

The part you outlined in red looks much better than the rest of the rock. I would make the whole rock wand like the top part.

[Dusty]

I don't know, I think you might be dwelling on things that ought not be dwelled on. What you have already seems pretty solid as far as aesthetics go, and adding more detail may just make it seem too busy and a stark contrast to the style you have already set with the rest of the work. Is there any reason you want to go for something more detailed?

[Sohei]

You should decrease gloss and the amount of light at the bottom of the cliff. It should get darker when descending.

Something like this

[Dusty]

You should decrease gloss and the amount of light at the bottom of the cliff. It should get darker when descending.

Something like this

Can't see the image, but that depends entirely on whether or not he wants to add more tiles. The way he has it now(as far as I know) allows him to tile the cliffs infinitely vertically. In order to apply a descending darkness he'd have to add more tiles every time he wants to make his cliffs a little higher.

[Beetleking22]

You should decrease gloss and the amount of light at the bottom of the cliff. It should get darker when descending.

Something like this

Imo thats looks much much better and realistic.. I love it more than the shiny one.

I don't know, I think you might be dwelling on things that ought not be dwelled on. What you have already seems pretty solid as far as aesthetics go, and adding more detail may just make it seem too busy and a stark contrast to the style you have already set with the rest of the work. Is there any reason you want to go for something more detailed?

Reason why I wantend to make more detailed rocks is beacause old one was too shiny

[PypeBros]

I thought about something like that when looking at the lofty mountain map, and then I interprete them as

<-  such a high wall to climb up!

<-  such a deep hole on my way... Is there a bridge nearby to go on the other side ?

In other term, the darker area is more easily read as a hole than as an obstacle.

But on the other hand, it looks to me that you already have some material for building a cliff that would fit nicely with your tileset:

(okay, it requires more tweaking that my quickly-fried edit, clearly)

[Beetleking22]

I thought about something like that when looking at the lofty mountain map, and then I interprete them as

<-  such a high wall to climb up!

 
Wall? Imo I Does not look like wall at all.. Its 1 part of the cliff..  http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-17/dq6-town-concept1.html Dragon quest have little bit sames style rock that I have.

<-  such a deep hole on my way... Is there a bridge nearby to go on the other side ?

In other term, the darker area is more easily read as a hole than as an obstacle.

Hole really? New darker cliff looks more like a  darker obstacle  than hole to me.. I really dont see huge black hole there. If cliff is huge you cannot make  whole cliff without darker lower part. Of course you can but It does not look realistic... or I'm wrong 

(okay, it requires more tweaking that my quickly-fried edit, clearly)

That is pretty mess i really dont ike that.. 

[PypeBros]

Wall? Imo I Does not look like wall at all.. Its 1 part of the cliff..  http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-17/dq6-town-concept1.html Dragon quest have little bit sames style rock that I have.

Yep, sorry. I didn't meant wall as in "human-crafted piling of carefully selected rocks" but just as in "something that stands in the way, that goes high". just because (afaik) "cliff" could go both up or down depending on the side you are.

Anyway, I feel like it's time for me to step back a little from this thread: I don't want to divert you away from pixel art by what looks like endless argueing (and is mostly me poorly picking my words/examples).

[Beetleking22]

Wall? Imo I Does not look like wall at all.. Its 1 part of the cliff..  http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-17/dq6-town-concept1.html Dragon quest have little bit sames style rock that I have.

Yep, sorry. I didn't meant wall as in "human-crafted piling of carefully selected rocks" but just as in "something that stands in the way, that goes high". just because (afaik) "cliff" could go both up or down depending on the side you are.

Okay I now understand better 

Anyway, I feel like it's time for me to step back a little from this thread: I don't want to divert you away from pixel art by what looks like endless argueing (and is mostly me poorly picking my words/examples).

Thats okay   
I still have a bit more difficult to understand because My english is not the best.. there are a lot of new words and I have learned many new words and good example is cliff xD.. CLiff is a new word for me.



Little update: Are the bottom now better than older?



New tree leaf.. Im going to use small and the big one.

[FrostPumpkin]

Hi !
I really liked Sohei's edit about the rocks but the probleme is that you can see it as a hole.
I think adding some shadows on the grass floor, droping from the top of the cliff can help seeing it as a wall instead of a hole.



Your bigger tree is great ! But the small one is now too big compared to the large one

[Beetleking22]

Hi !
I really liked Sohei's edit about the rocks but the probleme is that you can see it as a hole.
I think adding some shadows on the grass floor, droping from the top of the cliff can help seeing it as a wall instead of a hole.

Hello frost!

Many people have said the same thing about that black hole think but I really dont understand what you guys mean.. Can you show it  visually?

Your bigger tree is great ! But the small one is now too big compared to the large one

  I agree..  It really doesnt fit with rest smaller trees...

[Sohei]

My edit can be mistook for a hole only in given view. When you put it together with corners, and drop a shadow from the whole massive, there would be no room for misreading.

[Cyangmou]

just imagine a trench in the landscape - like this    ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅\___/ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅

It seems to appear like a trench, because it's pretty hard to keep the y axis (height) from the z axis (depth) in the 3/4 RPG perspectives because they are overlapping. If we only see the straight part of the wall and we will see the gradient from light to dark gray. Since the lightest gray seems to have the same lighting conditions as the grass it appears to us as the same depth. de dark grays seems to be deeper (light values appear nearer than dark values). Because it's also hard to say if the grass is at the bottom of a cliff, or if it's just the end of another cliff.

If you would have a cliff edge, the whole thing will appear completely different because we can actually see the y axis (more or less). If you make maps also keep in mind that long straight walls can occur odd.

The edit of FP seems to prevent the hole-impression pretty much.

Another idea would be to use strong vertical forms with objects that are describing the height-level interaction between the different planes. (e.g. a non linear cliff edge at the bottom which interacts with the grass to make clear that the first rock is standing at the grass) Your current straight line at the bottom is pretty much the same like the grass-line on the cliffs, so we rotate it in our mind by 180 degrees and think there is a not-visible cliff.

[Beetleking22]

just imagine a trench in the landscape - like this    ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅\___/ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅

It seems to appear like a trench, because it's pretty hard to keep the y axis (height) from the z axis (depth) in the 3/4 RPG perspectives because they are overlapping. If we only see the straight part of the wall and we will see the gradient from light to dark gray. Since the lightest gray seems to have the same lighting conditions as the grass it appears to us as the same depth. de dark grays seems to be deeper (light values appear nearer than dark values). Because it's also hard to say if the grass is at the bottom of a cliff, or if it's just the end of another cliff.

If you would have a cliff edge, the whole thing will appear completely different because we can actually see the y axis (more or less). If you make maps also keep in mind that long straight walls can occur odd.

The edit of FP seems to prevent the hole-impression pretty much.

Another idea would be to use strong vertical forms with objects that are describing the height-level interaction between the different planes. (e.g. a non linear cliff edge at the bottom which interacts with the grass to make clear that the first rock is standing at the grass) Your current straight line at the bottom is pretty much the same like the grass-line on the cliffs, so we rotate it in our mind by 180 degrees and think there is a not-visible cliff.

Ahh thank you for explanation! I really understand it now! 

PypeBros Im very sorry behaved badly towards you.. I really hate me when I'm sometimes rude. Your criticism always welcome 

I have not worked much with Cliff, but I started to work on the water Textures..  I decided to do a see-through water for pond. I got a lot of inspiration from moomin water.

Wip..

[Beetleking22]

Little update:

-New tree foliage
- New tree trunk
- New bush
- New rock

Does the new tree trunk looks more better? I thought to keep both of them..

[Zizka]

Immense progress so far, how inspiring  !

I don't really like the tree on the left in the new version. I don't know, trees don't change color that way do they?

The foliage is really well done, I'll be sure to use those trees for reference to understand how you pulled it off. Just one thing however, I'm surprised not more people commented about this: the trunk looks strange. It's like the foliage and the trunk don't have the same style. The foliage is pretty normal but the trunk is all bent and twisted Tim Burton style and I don't think it goes well together. I hope you'll give the trunk another go so that it fits the style of the foliage better.

As for the rest, it's awesome. It's great to see you persevere and improve at such a fast pace.

[Beetleking22]

Immense progress so far, how inspiring  !

Every time I see something wrong in my works i always I'll try to fix it up.. Thank you very much 

I don't really like the tree on the left in the new version. I don't know, trees don't change color that way do they?

Autumn tree blend color but im not sure if they blend color may way 

Example..

The foliage is really well done, I'll be sure to use those trees for reference to understand how you pulled it off. Just one thing however, I'm surprised not more people commented about this: the trunk looks strange. It's like the foliage and the trunk don't have the same style. The foliage is pretty normal but the trunk is all bent and twisted Tim Burton style and I don't think it goes well together. I hope you'll give the trunk another go so that it fits the style of the foliage better.

  Im very glad that i can help  someone! Tree Foliage is bunch of leaf and tree is wood.. Im not sure if they should be done in the same style because they are different materials..

As for the rest, it's awesome. It's great to see you persevere and improve at such a fast pace.

Thank you very much! 

[Beetleking22]

  I need critic about this cliff again..

[Facet]

To second Zizka: I like the idea of varying the foliage but the way you're doing it with your latest tree variations, with such a marked division is pretty unnatural; as is it had been dipped in paint. As per the photo ref. you've picked out try doing so more irregularly and organically as ageing leaves might.

There are a lot more ways you could mix it up beyond a simple palette change though: how about varying the amount of leaves, perhaps having some trunks almost bare; that's kinda the crux of the season after all . You could even branch out into a proper mixed woodland really for a really good variety of shapes, sizes and colours both of the tree and leaves themselves: you seem to be starting to treat all the foliage (trees, bushes, new cliff edge grass) with a very similar texture.

New rock-face looks ok but be careful not to overwork it; the previous edits look great partly for the lack of detailing in some places. Quickly as reference to the problem of alternate interpretation before: The big tonal difference is certainly the main issue but other continuities/interactions would help too eg. bits of rock jutting out into or overlapping the grass underneath, climbing plants etc. with an origin in the lower level.   

The older stand-alone rocks look pretty odd next to the new cliff, they might be from different games. Why not apply some of the cliff improvements thataway?

The start you've made on the water looks very tropical. I'd think about going darker, murker and put more emphasis on the surface and the plants there (duckweed, lillies, rushes, irises) in respect to the latitudes and light levels of the season.

Heh, apologies for the massive, wordy post, I'd been meaning to for a while .

[Beetleking22]

To second Zizka: I like the idea of varying the foliage but the way you're doing it with your latest tree variations, with such a marked division is pretty unnatural; as is it had been dipped in paint. As per the photo ref. you've picked out try doing so more irregularly and organically as ageing leaves might.

I agree with you guys i had feeling that is was wrong.

There are a lot more ways you could mix it up beyond a simple palette change though: how about varying the amount of leaves, perhaps having some trunks almost bare; that's kinda the crux of the season after all . You could even branch out into a proper mixed woodland really for a really good variety of shapes, sizes and colours both of the tree and leaves themselves: you seem to be starting to treat all the foliage (trees, bushes, new cliff edge grass) with a very similar texture.

I have quite  big issue with picking palettes. I always take some color which looks ok and then a change hue saturation to make it more vibrant i have big feeling that im doing this thing wrong. I really don't understand how professional pixel artist like you can pick always beautiful colors and i really wanted understant  how you pick em.

Im going to trying now make more variety for my foliages and i make some naked bare tree with few leaves left on! Thank you very much for the advice 

New rock-face looks ok but be careful not to overwork it; the previous edits look great partly for the lack of detailing in some places. Quickly as reference to the problem of alternate interpretation before: The big tonal difference is certainly the main issue but other continuities/interactions would help too eg. bits of rock jutting out into or overlapping the grass underneath, climbing plants etc. with an origin in the lower level.   

Maybe it is better if i edit previous rock texture?

The older stand-alone rocks look pretty odd next to the new cliff, they might be from different games. Why not apply some of the cliff improvements thataway?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing as you do.. I like to change cliff and rock texture colors because i really dont like them anymore.

The start you've made on the water looks very tropical. I'd think about going darker, murker and put more emphasis on the surface and the plants there (duckweed, lillies, rushes, irises) in respect to the latitudes and light levels of the season.

I tried to test the color with the forest and i didn't not work well  It was too bright for a autumn forest. I should make it more darker like you said. Those plant ideas are pretty nice but I'm afraid if it is going to look  like a swamp?

Heh, apologies for the massive, wordy post, I'd been meaning to for a while .

Your lessons are important to me because I want to learn more so please dont apologies <3

[Facet]

I'm not sure that I'm that well qualified to lay out any kind of concrete colour methodology (I am but a hobbyist pixelartist, but thanks ); actually beyond the foundational/technical stuff like local (native) colours versus situational (reflected) lighting and classic colour harmonies, for most people it's quite an intuitive, personal thing and I think you're doing a decent job already. There's a bunch of good resources for technical concerns if you search for them (here's one) but it really boils down to experience/practice. Pixelart can be particularly difficult, in that it's more exacting, with the obligation find mid-tones and marry disparate hues manually, most of the time I try and plan ahead somewhat, by laying out a few ramps before starting to render; often using reference photos for guidance, but the final product is always going to be the result of lots of experimentation and tweaking.

Both the palette and also the detailing of the rockface I think are really a matter of just stepping back a bit and just looking how they gel together as a scene; neither tiles or colours make that much sense in isolation.

Those plant ideas are pretty nice but I'm afraid if it is going to look  like a swamp?

Yeah, I might be over-fond of my plants but of course once you've got 'em you can use 'em as selectively as you want. My concern aside from the saturation/brightness is mainly the concentration of attention and detail (all those dark outlines) underwater; it feels more like a coral reef than inland pond/lake to me. I did a rough example, drawing on some sweet reflection ideas by Sharm here, 'cos I love this stuff. (more raised rocky borders, or some kind of beach might make for a better edging though)

[Beetleking22]

I'm not sure that I'm that well qualified to lay out any kind of concrete colour methodology (I am but a hobbyist pixelartist, but thanks ); actually beyond the base concepts like local (native) colours versus situational (reflected) lighting and classic colour harmonies (built into a lot of software), for most people it's quite an intuitive, personal thing and I think you're doing a decent job already. There's a bunch of good resources if you search for them (here's one) but it really boils down to practice. Pixelart can be particularly difficult, in that it's more exacting, with the obligation find mid-tones and marry disparate hues manually, most of the time I try and plan ahead somewhat, by laying out a few ramps before starting to render, often pulling from reference photos but the final product is always going to be the result of lots of experimentation and tweaking.

Sorry for late post.

Thank you for tips and the links! Yeah i realized that picking palettes is really important to do before rendering. 

Those plant ideas are pretty nice but I'm afraid if it is going to look  like a swamp?
  Yeah, I might be over-fond of my plants but of course once you've got 'em you can use 'em as subtly/sparsely as you want. My concern aside from the saturation/brightness is mainly the concentration of attention and detail (all those dark outlines) underwater; it feels more like a coral reef than inland pond/lake to me. I did a rough example, drawing on some sweet reflection ideas by Sharm here, 'cos I love this stuff. (more raised rocky borders, or some kind of beach might make for a better edging though)

Thats is pretty nice edit! I like the rocky borders palettes and the plants and of course water color  Reflection is pretty nice and realistic but it may be difficult to put into the game?




New bush practise.

This looks pretty carppy weird and this is not going to be in game because this is just a practise stuff.

 

[Beetleking22]

New tree trunk I need some critic.. I got inspiration from toby tree..  http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/6310.htm

[Alanay]

New tree trunk I need some critic.. I got inspiration from toby tree..  http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/6310.htm

I think it looks a whole lot better, is this gonna be for a game?

[Beetleking22]

I think it looks a whole lot better, is this gonna be for a game?

Yes.


Here is my new bush critic?

[Alanay]

That makes me so excited! I know I'm no where near as good as you but I did something very similar to yours but only using 3 colors (not including outline) I stole your grass though. Do you mind if I continue this little project?

[Beetleking22]

That makes me so excited! I know I'm no where near as good as you but I did something very similar to yours but only using 3 colors (not including outline) I stole your grass though. Do you mind if I continue this little project?

Yes you can take them if you want... I starded make new grass.

[Alanay]

Thanks man, and I'm so jelly over those new ones!

[PypeBros]

That new grass really rules! I love the bushes too. The only thing that bugs me about them is these linear highlights.

I tried "spotted" highlights instead, but it could be that they simply don't need additional highlights.

[Beetleking22]

That new grass really rules! I love the bushes too. The only thing that bugs me about them is these linear highlights.

I tried "spotted" highlights instead, but it could be that they simply don't need additional highlights.

Thank you! Imo thats looks much better.

[Markus]

Hey! Love this thread, not too fond of the tree trunks tho.. 

How about something like this?

(the one on the left side)

[BlueArctica]

Hey! Love this thread, not too fond of the tree trunks tho.. 

How about something like this?

(the one on the left side)

I think the style of this tileset is supposed to be more whimsical, and the trunk that you suggested is just too realistic. Frankly I adore the trunk that's already in place.

That makes me so excited! I know I'm no where near as good as you but I did something very similar to yours but only using 3 colors (not including outline) I stole your grass though. Do you mind if I continue this little project?

Yes you can take them if you want... I starded make new grass.

Also, I love the new grass. It needed an update. This one is much more natural, while the old one was far too cartoonyacartoony and even.

[imnumberfour]

Honestly I feel the new grass and cliff faces have made this tileset completely lose it's stylized charm. It looks good, dont get me wrong, but I feel it had a much better impression and was more memorable with the stylized grass (including the colours) and the more siple cliffs.

[Beetleking22]

Honestly I feel the new grass and cliff faces have made this tileset completely lose it's stylized charm. It looks good, dont get me wrong, but I feel it had a much better impression and was more memorable with the stylized grass (including the colours) and the more siple cliffs.

I made new grass because the old one was too repetitive. I dont want make graphic too simple like a zelda snes/gba.. I know it has pretty much charm but I want bring back chrono trigger, Secret of mana, Terrarigma like a graphic back because i really miss those games.

[imnumberfour]

Honestly I feel the new grass and cliff faces have made this tileset completely lose it's stylized charm. It looks good, dont get me wrong, but I feel it had a much better impression and was more memorable with the stylized grass (including the colours) and the more siple cliffs.

I made new grass because the old one was too repetitive. I dont want make graphic too simple like a zelda snes/gba.. I know it has pretty much charm but I want bring back chrono trigger, Secret of mana, Terrarigma like a graphic back because i really miss those games.

I can understand the change, but will you at least keep the colour variation; even if it is more subtle?

[Beetleking22]

Honestly I feel the new grass and cliff faces have made this tileset completely lose it's stylized charm. It looks good, dont get me wrong, but I feel it had a much better impression and was more memorable with the stylized grass (including the colours) and the more siple cliffs.

I made new grass because the old one was too repetitive. I dont want make graphic too simple like a zelda snes/gba.. I know it has pretty much charm but I want bring back chrono trigger, Secret of mana, Terrarigma like a graphic back because i really miss those games.

I can understand the change, but will you at least keep the colour variation; even if it is more subtle?

Yeah im going to keep color variation.. I started improve some of my tiles and i'm pretty happy with the  result. .. its still wip.  Im not sure but does the tree foliage now looks little bit of flat? I think perspective is little bit wrong?

Update:
- Smaller rock with cliff color
- More color variation  for grass texture
- New autumn leaf foliage
- New shadows

[Redshrike]

I will agree, the foliage looks rather flatter than the earlier one to me.  The outline is too perfectly oval, and there are essentially two levels of brightness, also divided by a nigh-oval.  I think a little bit of internal work and breaking up those ovals would help a lot.

[Beetleking22]

I started to make another cliff and i wantend to make more cartoony cliff with less details and i really think this style fith pretty well with my others tileset and im pretty happy with the result.. Its still wip but almost done.

What you  guys think?




This how i made it.

[NordicSoul]

Looks pretty good to me I would also try to change the trunks of the trees... look too much like an octopus-shaped thing If u know what I mean... Besides that, I think u are heading into a pretty good direction!

[Cyangmou]

I think it looks ltill not very cliff like. As I already mentioned you should use more verticality to get a feeling for height. Yours also looks pretty flat - it's lacking something in style compared to your other stuff.

Quick and sloppy sketch how it could look - tiling is off and not gird-fitting, but I just wanted to show you "how" a longer row could work:

[Beetleking22]

I think it looks ltill not very cliff like. As I already mentioned you should use more verticality to get a feeling for height. Yours also looks pretty flat - it's lacking something in style compared to your other stuff.

Quick and sloppy sketch how it could look - tiling is off and not gird-fitting, but I just wanted to show you "how" a longer row could work:

I know what you mean but  i feel like a this edit looks unnatural.. Its seems like those are more like a  pile of rocks stick in the ground than cliff to me...  Correct me if im wrong.  I should make more  for verticality to get a feeling for height like you said.. Maybe if i make bigger and higher rock works?

[Cyangmou]

If you ask me you have a more graphical than a naturalistic approach. Maybe it changed now as you are using Sword of Mana styled grass, but all in all your style works with pretty simple forms.

For example: egg shaped trees, sphere shaped bushes

A cliff in a RPG is always a unnatural thing, but it's really easy to compensate with the graphical style like the one which you used with your earlier versions. Why don't use rockpiles with a clear form and a clear impression of height, when the roots of your trees won't fix it in the ground. Also how your leaves are lying directly under the trees seems more stylized than naturalistic, but OK.

Facet and Ptoing already posted great references.

You should aim for one direction and keep this direction througout the whole game - otherwise you will end up with a bunch of pieces with the same colors and which looks at it own pretty good but built together they have a pretty different graphical appeareance - you also have this problem now if you look closer.

To be honest it's pretty obvious that you started with a very minimalistic approach and tried to add more details. If you directly compare the foliage of your bush and your trees I see 2 completely different styles. The bush lives from less colors and clear clusters, while the foliage lives from it's gradient and the strong impression of light. If you count the grass in, we have a third style which works with positive and negative shilouettes.  The way you made the shadow of the rocks would be the fourth approach in this piece - if you compare it to the shadow of the trees it looks completely different and there are some other minor discrepancies as well.

For ideas always gether some refs:

All of them have a pretty different approach. Can you imagine any of them with your graphics?

the best thing you can do atm is to choose your exact artistical direction - this will heavily affect the way of the development.

[Beetleking22]

If you ask me you have a more graphical than a naturalistic approach. Maybe it changed now as you are using Sword of Mana styled grass,

I agree with you but its seems that Sword of mana does have same ghrapichal approach as I. Some of tiles have a naturalistic approach and some are graphical.

A cliff in a RPG is always a unnatural thing, but it's really easy to compensate with the graphical style like the one which you used with your earlier versions. Why don't use rockpiles with a clear form and a clear impression of height, when the roots of your trees won't fix it in the ground. Also how your leaves are lying directly under the trees seems more stylized than naturalistic, but OK.

 If i make super hyper cool graphical style tiles without nature many people is going to criticize my tiles even if they are pretty nice. What i should to make natural or unatural tiles? Or both of them???

Also how your leaves are lying directly under the trees seems more stylized than naturalistic, but OK.

Autumn trees drop their leafes under the tree and some of them fly with a wind and  I tried  to make bunch of leaves under the tree. Its may seems like stylized but i tried to make them more natural.

You should aim for one direction and keep this direction througout the whole game - otherwise you will end up with a bunch of pieces with the same colors and which looks at it own pretty good but built together they have a pretty different graphical appeareance - you also have this problem now if you look closer.

To be honest it's pretty obvious that you started with a very minimalistic approach and tried to add more details. If you directly compare the foliage of your bush and your trees I see 2 completely different styles. The bush lives from less colors and clear clusters, while the foliage lives from it's gradient and the strong impression of light. If you count the grass in, we have a third style which works with positive and negative shilouettes.  The way you made the shadow of the rocks would be the fourth approach in this piece - if you compare it to the shadow of the trees it looks completely different and there are some other minor discrepancies as well.

The reason i didint change them early with same style was that they didint bother me but now i can see the problem here clearly.

[Beetleking22]

I really hated my old autumn color scheme, so I wanted more pastel and brigh look for my tileset... Result.    I also made new tree but they are truly unfinished..

[NordicSoul]

palette looks...good o.O I would avoid to have "chunky" trees, go for more random "piles" of leaves

[Beetleking22]

palette looks...good o.O I would avoid to have "chunky" trees, go for more random "piles" of leaves

Yeah im going to make more variety for leaves but thank you im pretty glad you liked my new palettes.

[Beetleking22]

Screw new color  I made another cliff and i have feeling that i'm going to right direction. I changed little bit of grass too color.

[Crow]

Haha, it seems like you're going through a lot of struggle with this Which is perfectly fine, in my opinion. Take your time!

I, personally, don't exactly like your newer colors either, but that might just be me. The cliff, though.. well, right now, it's just looking like an array of some higher rocks standing next to each other. I think the problem with this are the big differences in height at the top of it, and the way the top looks.

[Beetleking22]

Haha, it seems like you're going through a lot of struggle with this Which is perfectly fine, in my opinion. Take your time!

  This is my first time when im trying to make cliff and i really like practise to understand it. It takes a lot of time because i have a small brain.

I, personally, don't exactly like your newer colors either, but that might just be me.

Yeah i dont like them either..  It does not look like a autumn.. More like a african savanna with autumn trees 

The cliff, though.. well, right now, it's just looking like an array of some higher rocks standing next to each other. I think the problem with this are the big differences in height at the top of it, and the way the top looks.

It does not seem yet like a cliff  because it does not have top part like you said . It  needs more rock to make it more higher and grass foliage in top to covers it. Now its looks like a small rock wall.

But i really think this cliff is a lot better than my previous ones because i made before too small rock for my cliff and i tought it needed more higher rocks.

[PypeBros]

New update:.. Does it look now like a cliff?

It works for me. The only thing that looks odd in my eyes is the rock/grass transition at the top, where you have colors very close to each other, and surprisingly low contrast for such a important gameplay boundary.

[Beetleking22]

New update:.. Does it look now like a cliff?

It works for me. The only thing that looks odd in my eyes is the rock/grass transition at the top, where you have colors very close to each other, and surprisingly low contrast for such a important gameplay boundary.

Yeah I agree.. I think I can fix this problem with Grass foliage.

[Beetleking22]

Im still working on my cliff and I have little problem here.. I started to work with side cliff and I think I have a  perspective issue. I compared my side cliff with other games side cliff and the result was that my cliff angle was little bit different than others.. I'm not sure if thats big problem but i need to know if im doing something wrong.


 My side cliff looks now like a  cave because its still Wip.




I also find it difficult to choose my grass color because they look both fine..  Can someone say which of these is better?

[danilo]

http://www.linesandcolors.com/images/2010-06/reverse_450.jpg

maybe inverted is more interesting?

[Beetleking22]

Yeah im little bit of crazy.. I started to make another cliff again and also I changed a lot of colors..  Imo it does not look like pile of rock anymore.. What you guys think?

[dylan]

Dunno, I like the old cliffs but with the new colors. 

[Beetleking22]

Dunno, I like the old cliffs but with the new colors. 

Can you tell me why you like it more? The new one is not even done yet. Old cliff looks repetitive.

[TheMonsterAtlas]

The colors seem a lot more natural in the newer one (not as pink) Honestly the old ones don't look that repetitive. You can also do another set of mountains that will fit with the others as well to even further break repetitiv....ity....

[Beetleking22]

The colors seem a lot more natural in the newer one (not as pink) Honestly the old ones don't look that repetitive. You can also do another set of mountains that will fit with the others as well to even further break repetitiv....ity....

The pattern of stone is too repetitive if you look directly. They all have almost same shape and they are too apart from each other. My new one looks more natural because the pattern is bigger and they are Closed to each other.

[OneLongWord]

That sure is some beautiful work. It's taken me a while to go through all those pages too.
You're developed the leaves so much, colour-wise, placement and shape yet I feel the trunk is being neglected, I think I personally have issues with the roots themselves, there seems to be no evidence that the roots ever go into the ground.

If you think about it realistically, the roots would be (at least) half submerged into the ground, I'd love to see some above like you have (maybe with a bit more detail, to reflect the amount of detail in the leaves) but also bumps in the grass where the roots go under. I feel like the Tree really needs to be held in place, by some clever shading showing the roots are there, without being shown.

hope this helps in some way. Just something different to think about I guess.

[Beetleking22]

How about this 

[Beetleking22]

Here is my new tree wip.. I changed color and made new tree and also made hopefully better leaves.. So what you guys think?

[API-Beast]

The new trees suggest a more mature style, more into the direction of your old rocks:


That isn't bad (I quite liked those) but you have to decide if you want a more cartoony style or a more textured style. So far you seem to be switching back and forth between those two.

[Beetleking22]

The new trees suggest a more mature style, more into the direction of your old rocks:


That isn't bad (I quite liked those) but you have to decide if you want a more cartoony style or a more textured style. So far you seem to be switching back and forth between those two.

Yeah i decided to make my style more detailed so everything now im  trying to make with same style and use same amount of colours for objects.

[Ymedron]

Separated I love the colors and details of the very newest trees. However, Im not very good at judging the consistency of a tileset. The trees suggest a more dark and mystical world, the kind where you get lost in a forest at night and meet a forest-god who is a skeletal deer or something...

Maybe lightening and yellowing the green tree might make it more cheerful, though Im not sure if it would look better.

[Beetleking22]

Separated I love the colors and details of the very newest trees. However, Im not very good at judging the consistency of a tileset. The trees suggest a more dark and mystical world, the kind where you get lost in a forest at night and meet a forest-god who is a skeletal deer or something...

Maybe lightening and yellowing the green tree might make it more cheerful, though Im not sure if it would look better.

The dark one is sketch color im not going to use it for my game but thank you for you tips..




Heres my newest update... its almost done but i need critic about this one..

[Ymedron]

I'd say it is still as dark as the in-progress one, but regardless.

I think the trunk needs to be more separated from the bottom of the leaves, like a darker shadow..? Perhaps not.
You could try blending the clumps of leaves together a bit more, maybe make the darkest leaves less directional from the clumps, if that makes any sense.

Sorry Im not of much help here.

[Beetleking22]

Uhh duhh another Tree practise.. Tried mix red with green.. not sure if this work... any opnion???

[API-Beast]

Red is generally much darker than green. So you have to make the red brighter in order to not blend in and seem undefined.

Make sure you always check if it looks good too in terms of brightness:

Check for the luminosity not for the lightness, the luminosity is how a human perceives it, taking into account that different hues are perceived in different brightness. The lightness is not taking that into account and instead just discards it.

My take on the colors (though probably doesn't work well in combination with the tileset):

[Beetleking22]

Red is generally much darker than green. So you have to make the red brighter in order to not blend in and seem undefined.

Make sure you always check if it looks good too in terms of brightness:

Check for the luminosity not for the lightness, the luminosity is how a human perceives it, taking into account that different hues are perceived in different brightness. The lightness is not taking that into account and instead just discards it.

My take on the colors (though probably doesn't work well in combination with the tileset):

Sorry for late post.. Thank you about this one.. I dont use much of those tools but maybe I should? Now the red is pretty bright.. I actually tried make a shadow from the seiken denetsu 3 tree but my version looks more like a highlight.

[API-Beast]

You mean these? 

That is a very slight backlight. A weak light coming from the opposite direction of the main light source.

[Beetleking22]

You mean these? 

That is a very slight backlight. A weak light coming from the opposite direction of the main light source.

Thats what I meant yeah. Im going to start again practise trees, I don't like my newest foliage so im going to make better tree.

[tim]

Why everybody on pixel art forums wants to copy Secret of Mana III ?



Ok the game is beautiful, but damn, don't copy their exact lighting.
I love these but putting them in your own game feels wrong. And
technically, they are. This lighting makes no sense. Maybe in a magical
forest, maybe with a blue torch near the tree, or something. But not
as the standard lighting.

There are hundred of ways to imagine and draw trees, and all pixel artists
are copying themselves over and over. Please : your tree was cool before,
I loved it, you spent months on it, and finally you try to copy Secret of Mana ?
I'm not sure about your move.

[Beetleking22]

Why everybody on pixel art forums wants to copy Secret of Mana III ?



Ok the game is beautiful, but damn, don't copy their exact lighting.
I love these but putting them in your own game feels wrong. And
technically, they are. This lighting makes no sense. Maybe in a magical
forest, maybe with a blue torch near the tree, or something. But not
as the standard lighting.

There are hundred of ways to imagine and draw trees, and all pixel artists
are copying themselves over and over. Please : your tree was cool before,
I loved it, you spent months on it, and finally you try to copy Secret of Mana ?
I'm not sure about your move.

I tried to make more atomspheric tree and thats is the reason why  I copied the style but It didn't work well so I started make whole new tree ( Wich I have not yet shown). My old red tree was so messy.. I drew leaves just all over the place and i didn't like it ...

[Beetleking22]

 I made now bigger foliage and I think is  better than last two ones..

[Beetleking22]

Hello guys  I starded working with this foliage again. Wich one is better the new or the old? New one looks more like a snes styled and realistic and the old one is more simplistic.
 

[Ymedron]

The new one looks more fun, the contrast makes the trees pleasing to look at. However, the old one is good for making the forest seem large and dark... Hm, it depends on what kind of a forest you want.

[Beetleking22]

The new one looks more fun, the contrast makes the trees pleasing to look at. However, the old one is good for making the forest seem large and dark... Hm, it depends on what kind of a forest you want.

Yeah I know that but the main question was about the foliage composition.

[Ymedron]

You asked "which one is better", expect a vague answer. No need to get pissy about it.

If we don't look at the colors at all, the new one is a lot better because the leaves poke out of the main shape -> more interesting edges.
It also looks more freed from the ball shape of the original clump.

[Beetleking22]

You asked "which one is better", expect a vague answer. No need to get pissy about it.

Yeah its was my fault that i didn't explain it  better.

[coffee]

hey

Just wanted to add that the foliage composition is more interesting now because it's not as a regular pattern and it differs in shape and size. I don't know what you are aiming but I really think you should decide on an overall style before continuing any further.

I think both the trees work, but you can't compare the old one to the new one in matters of better/worse when it is a matter of style.

So if you made the simplistic tree with the same unregular pattern as the more detailed one, I can't see why any of them would be better, or worse.

Another thing that hit me, that actually looks better than the other, was the colours of the new tree.

GL!

//coffee

[Decroded]

Hello guys  I starded working with this foliage again. Wich one is better the new or the old? New one looks more like a snes styled and realistic and the old one is more simplistic.
 

I really like these new leaves I'd like to see some more foliage done like that please

I think you should design an actual scene now though. So pick an area of some consequence to the story of the game and mock up a screen shot so you can get all the elements and textures to work together rather than just the repeated generic tiles your going for now.
I think you're getting to the point now where you can design a few different tile sets for different areas and have some nice varied looks rather than struggling over and over with what is the best possible way to do one particular tile set.

[Beetleking22]

hey

Just wanted to add that the foliage composition is more interesting now because it's not as a regular pattern and it differs in shape and size. I don't know what you are aiming but I really think you should decide on an overall style before continuing any further.

Yeah I agree that, I should decide overall style but Im trying now find my style for my game. Thank you.

I think both the trees work, but you can't compare the old one to the new one in matters of better/worse when it is a matter of style.

Yeah I agree that you cannot compare style but I made the composion ( I think)  better than my old one.

[PypeBros]

I'd keep the new style for front bushes (if it was a side-scroller) or places where you want functionally extra detail to attract the look. Imho, having a whole forest with such detailed leaves, esp. in a top-view, while trees are mostly dead places will not lead in improved experience because it would produce too much "noise" around the player and NPCs.

[Beetleking22]

Hello guys  I starded working with this foliage again. Wich one is better the new or the old? New one looks more like a snes styled and realistic and the old one is more simplistic.
 

I really like these new leaves I'd like to see some more foliage done like that please

I think you should design an actual scene now though. So pick an area of some consequence to the story of the game and mock up a screen shot so you can get all the elements and textures to work together rather than just the repeated generic tiles your going for now.
I think you're getting to the point now where you can design a few different tile sets for different areas and have some nice varied looks rather than struggling over and over with what is the best possible way to do one particular tile set.

Thank you very much! I have been practising my color theory and foliage pattern lately . I wanted make beautiful athomsperic autumn forest ruins with beautiful variant of colors. Its hards for me to build it becuse the rpg graphic stuff is new to me. I need learn more to make it happen.

But I am now well on track and I am pleased with the practising results.

[Beetleking22]

I'd keep the new style for front bushes (if it was a side-scroller) or places where you want functionally extra detail to attract the look. Imho, having a whole forest with such detailed leaves, esp. in a top-view, while trees are mostly dead places will not lead in improved experience because it would produce too much "noise" around the player and NPCs.

Should I make more smaller leaves or reduce the details of leaves?  I aim for more detailed styled of graphics like a chrono trigger and Seiken denetsu 3.

This forest from chrono trigger has a small leaves and lot of noises but it still looks awesome.

http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/ChronoTrigger-600AD-GuardiaForest.png

[Crow]

Should I make more smaller leaves or reduce the details of leaves?  I aim for more detailed styled of graphics like a chrono trigger and Seiken denetsu 3.

You removed the latest version from your last post, didn't you? With some color variations in it. It also had a little less detail on the leaves, and was, in my opinion, a perfect mixture.

[Beetleking22]

Should I make more smaller leaves or reduce the details of leaves?  I aim for more detailed styled of graphics like a chrono trigger and Seiken denetsu 3.

You removed the latest version from your last post, didn't you? With some color variations in it. It also had a little less detail on the leaves, and was, in my opinion, a perfect mixture.

Yes I did  .. Do you mean this one? I removed little bit of details and added new leaf shape.

[Crow]

I do mean that one, indeed. The bottom "sphere of leaves" is something I absolutely adore. It looks very nice, sorta crisp, clean and has very nice overall shading, but is not as complex in detail as your previous revamp. I really like it. I believe keeping up that style works well even in a large forest.

[Beetleking22]

..