AuthorTopic: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char  (Read 2541 times)

Offline Vakinox

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[WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

on: March 18, 2012, 01:13:56 am
Hi, new both here and to pixel art.
Have a 2 frame, 4 direction, 8bit spriteset I'm working on that I've been stuck on for the past couple of days.

I've been able to get the gist of it mostly, but I got stuck on animating the West direction.
Here:

Any tips, recommendations, or editing would greatly be appreciated.



« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:06:39 am by Vakinox »

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 09:08:22 am
Comparison is a powerful art tool.
If you are unsure of what to do next make a duplicate of your current file:



Try something different.
Now compare them.
Which is better?
Why?
Make a decision.
But keep both versions.
Do not destroy the original as it still has potential to be useful later.
As you continue create more duplicates as needed.

I tried a few different approaches.

This is your dude:


2 frames with the front leg going back:


2 frames with the front leg going forward:


4 frames with the above 2 combined:


8 frames using the common animation elments:


None of these are really better than the other.
They are just different.

Many factors will determine which one is more appropriate:
- Production Time (Deadlines)
- Art Pipeline
- Game Engine
- Desired look

Notes:
UI shown is from GraphicsGale. Other software should have similar features.
The size you have chosen is fun but challenging to work with.
Try more animations to see how far you can push him.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 09:15:04 am
Awesome advice, and good edits, Pixel. Thanks for the info, too. Didn't know Graphics Gale had that duplication feature. That's going to be useful!

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] [C+C] 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #3 on: March 18, 2012, 08:01:49 pm
Thnk you so much.
Those are some great tricks and tips.
Definitely took it to heart, cause I've been starting from scratch over and over again trying to make fluid animations.
Glad to know something I was doing was wrong so I could fix it.
Will be keeping a garbage collection from now on.

With your advice and edits, I made some updates plus some added features (head-bobbing).
How does it look?





Also, having some trouble now with shading and color.
Mainly in specific regions of the sprite.

Like the bottom half of the North-bound animation (highlighted in red):




And the torso area of the East/West-bound animation (highlighted in red):


« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 08:05:39 pm by Vakinox »

Offline StarRaven

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 08:04:11 pm
I don't think that the previous edits with an obvious front leg/back leg in the two-frame animations are an effective way of making a two frame walk cycle. If you're making a four-frame walk cycle, you definitely need to show which leg is in front of behind, but with a two-frame walk cycle, you want to obscure that as much as possible to fool the viewer into thinking that they are seeing more than two frames.

This is the only example I have at the moment: The only things I can really tell you are:
- It's easier to illustrate a run rather than a walk with only two frames, since the legs are further apart.
- A faster animation covers up the fact that there are few frames better than a slower animation (like mine.... :-[)
- Definitely don't shade the legs; the viewer will be able to tell immediately that the animation is only two frames.
- Sorry I don't have any arm movement in this sprite. I didn't work on that until much later, when I had bumped it up to more frames. D:

Actually, there's a tutorial floating around here that explains all this way better than I can. Here it is.

Edit: Your new one looks good, but that head movement looks like a pigeon head-bob or something; I don't think the forward movement works well at that small size. Also, his arm looks like he's walking with his hands behind his back.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 08:14:06 pm by StarRaven »

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] [C+C] 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 01:00:38 am
Alright, here is the new update.

I've fixed the problem with the head-bobbing and just kept it simple with an up-and-down one instead.
As for obscuring the walk cycle to the way your tutorial suggests, I'm finding trouble with that.
I think I've gotten a bit closer to what you're suggesting after spending most of the day in trial and error.
Still, the sprite isn't fluid in animation or exactly the way the tutorial suggests it should be.
I've made the legs roughly the same size in correlation with each other and attempted to make both seem that neither is closer to the viewer, but the sprite itself still doesn't look right.
I also applied this tip to the other directions and think they look much better in animation.

Here's the updated sprite:






The problem I think may be that it's too small of a sprite for 2 frame animations like this, but I'd rather not accept that right now until it's undeniable because it'll mean a massive overhaul for me if I have to bump up the resolutions. Not to mention, this is my first spriting experience so I rather stick to small works.

I agreed with you on avoiding shading for the legs on the North-bound animation.
Though I still found there to be a lack thereof something in the sprite, so instead I just dropped down the torso a bit.
Also, I edited the legs a bit to fit the tutorial linked which states to make 2 frame animations effective.
I also edited the South-bound animation too, mainly in the lower-torso area (above the feet), merely for aesthetic reasons.

Also, no worries about the example. Every bit of help is appreciated.
I thnk you so much for just taking the time to shoot this hints and tips to me.


So how's the new sprite? Better, worse?
All tips, edits, and criticism is greatly appreciated.

Offline StarRaven

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 03:54:31 am
The feet in the old sprite were just fine, in my opinion. I think it's better to have a little gap between them in the one frame where they're away from one another, and I think it's fine to show just one in profile, as if they're overlapping, especially on a sprite this small.

What happened to the front and back sprites? The feet look strange now. They were just fine before; anything I said was only aimed at the side-view sprite only. The other ones looked great already. Sorry if I'm being confusing. *derp* :noob:

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you want to use only two frames? A four-frame animation might be easier to work with. You just add a frame that's between the two you've already got and use that twice, so it's really only one more thing to draw. Here's what I mean, I'm bad at explaining.

It's hard to tell at such a tiny size what the character is supposed to look like, so please forgive my terrible side-view.  :'(

Offline Mike

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 09:13:02 am
StarRaven I just wanted to commend you on a job well done for that run.  it's effectively 4 frames visually but only 2 frames in actuality.  Wow really impressive stuff!

PixelPileDriver I've never seen such fluidity in such a small sprite.  It's a little jarring.  Like if a whole game was made with that many frames with such small characters it would be quite...unique.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 08:54:51 pm

The reason for working on two frame sprites is because mainly I'm a little behind on experience and am currently attempting to work multiple versions of the sprite into a game project.
Multiple versions meaning that I'll be using this as a "base" sprite to work on creating other variations of sprites.
Two frames, at least in my head, meant less frames to handle with, meaning great way to start off a spriting experience.
Plus the game is based sort of off FF3 sprites and emulates (older) Gameboy graphics.
Not to mention, am a avid fan of minimalistic stuff, so the less = the better I figured, which makes me partially preferential to 2 frames I guess.

As for the front and back sprites, sorry, I misunderstood.
I'm easily confused I guess :/ No wrong on your part, you explained pretty well I think.

Am still trying though, so newly updated the sprite a bit:







Took the advice you stated about the old sprites looking just fine and reworked them into your edits with some new edits from my end.
Though, still running into problems with the West-bound (side-view) animation, so decided to create some Iso/diagonal directions for the sprite.
With the isometric versions, I'm thinking with the spinning transitions for the animation, it'll make it a bit easier to create a more fluid sprite, leading to a more effective version of the side-view sprite.
Though, even with that in my aid, the animation is still troubling me.
All edits, advice, tips, and hints still welcomed.

How does it look?



Also, definitely agree with Mike. You two (PPD and SR) have done a great and commendable job.
And that 8 frame sprite looks so awesome. I'll definitely incorporate somewhere to use for future reference or use it in some way.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] Need Help w/ 8bit 16x16 2frame Char

Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 01:48:42 am
Well, turns out I got something right.
The Iso-diagonial directions added helped in correcting the East/West-bound animations by the transitions from frame to frame in the spinning animation.
By correcting the diagonal frames with standing frames for North and South bound animations, I was able to compare them to the East and West bound animations, thus finally correcting them.
I think they're finally done. If not, need a little touching up maybe if at all.

Here's the update:








So how does it look? any corrections needed or advice?