AuthorTopic: GR#100 - Character Animation  (Read 8769 times)

Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #10 on: March 18, 2012, 08:51:41 am
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RiverCity characters are very crunched, to the point they appear to be hugging themselves.
That's not a weakness. That's basically what a boxing stance looking like. In a beat-em-up, that's a perfect stance to be in.
Your guy looks like he's wants to get punched in the gut/ribs repeatedly. =P

My vote goes to the River City/original sprite from this thread, because they actually look like they're about to fight someone.
Your guy is cool looking, but he looks like he's getting ready to ski or something, hahah.

Quote
youre right about crunched thing....
No, your pose was correct. Keep it as is! Fighters shouldn't look "open" in the first place! That's the exact opposite of how they want to look! XD

See? Small and compact! Of course, your guy isn't covering his face, which is also wrong, but in the cartoon form he's in, his pose still gives off a fighter's aura. Pixel's edit looks way too open to me.
You should probably raise your guys hand's a bit though, num. If you just have his back hand up to his face, it wouldn't be blocking his expressions, plus he'd look a lot more like he knew what he was doing. That'd probably be a good compromise.

Bonus reference:


Take note of the pose of the guy getting punched in the face, heheh. =)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 09:09:30 am by jams0988 »

Offline numlock

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #11 on: March 19, 2012, 04:49:34 am
a little update
since I'm going for kinda retro looking thing I decided to use nes color palette for all game, probably drawing scenes will be harder than I thought but with fixed color palette it'll look balanced(if I can pull it off), maybe with 1 scene exception which is it has to be that way I guess

-I tried to make boxing gloves better, probably will add shiny surface once I get hang of pixels

-again I tried to make 4 frame walking but it sucked so I looked up some walking frame instructions and made 8 frame animation, it still needs to get polished but it seemed so smooth I was kinda proud of it, still I thought I should upload it here before polishing and get someone elses opinion

plus ty about the making me raise guys hands a bit it looks much better I think
I'm hoping next time I post I'll polish walking and make basic punch-kick
new colors

walking

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #12 on: March 19, 2012, 06:46:09 am
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My vote goes to the River City/original sprite from this thread, because they actually look like they're about to fight someone.
Although it's good to point out what a fighting stance should actually look like I have to disagree.(but no offense intended jams, very valid point :))
The RiverCity pose is very generic, which actually works well in game since the player does other things than fight.

Here we see the player shopping, talking to a child, and engaging an enemy:


A few years later Technos made sprites that have much more attention to volume and still retain the same style and charm:

They also have a good variety of fighting poses that read really well.

Now let's drop one of those sprites into RiverCity.
Here we see the player threatening the store clerk, ready to punch a kid, and about to engage an enemy:


It's good to have a "generic action" pose in your sprite sheet so that it can pass off as just about anything (yes even skiing!).
If it feels too generic for certain actions however, like jams is pointing out, you'll have to add an additional pose that is more specific.
And of course the opposite is also true. If a pose is too specific it could give the wrong impression.
So it's good to have both.

The new post is a good improvement!
His volume, lighting and color are all much more appealing.

The crotch is a bit forward facing compared to the rest of his body.
You may want to consider bumping it over a few pixels:

How many pixels exactly?
It's up to you.

The walk cycle is a good start.
But I'd like to address it in a separate post, as I'm a bit tired.

You're making great progress. Keep it up. :)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:02:34 am by PixelPiledriver »
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Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #13 on: March 19, 2012, 03:56:01 pm
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Although it's good to point out what a fighting stance should actually look like I have to disagree.(but no offense intended jams, very valid point Smiley)
The RiverCity pose is very generic, which actually works well in game since the player does other things than fight.

Here we see the player shopping, talking to a child, and engaging an enemy:
I have to disagree with your disagreement. XD
Even though the RCR pose isn't a full-blown boxing stance, it's close enough to read that way when faced with an enemy. The pose looks even more like a fighting stance, because for 95% of the game, it is a fighting stance. The little text bubble comic you did was cute, but he still looks like he wants to punch that girl in the mouth, hahah.

The problem I had with your edit was that even though it's slightly generic like the RCR sprite is, in that it's not a true fighting stance, that unlike the RCR sprite, I don't feel it could serve as a fighting sprite, even with enemies on the screen. He looks a bit angry, sure, but it's not a pose I see him fluidly attacking from. Or at least he shouldn't be.

What he does look good for, in my opinion, is one of those big slow-type enemies. The one's that you have to beat on for like ten minutes before they die. And they only attack once in awhile, doing a huge charge-up/telegraphing animation before throwing a punishing haymaker.

So I'm not saying your sprite is bad or has no place in a brawler. It's just that the RCR pose is closer to a believable fighting pose the main character should be using, since the main character should react to input and throw punches quickly, usually working into combos. Your guy is fine (and really nice looking, actually) for one of the bigger slower enemies who takes a lot of punishment. =)

And again, note that my whole argument is based on the assumption that numlock doesn't want do have different poses for different actions. Like you said, if he's willing to animate multiple poses, that'll obviously always be the best option.

Numlock, I'm liking his new pose, but his face looks too happy to me for some reason, even though his eyebrows say he's angry, hahah!
And is that your first walk cycle? If so, that's really impressive. If not, it's still looking pretty good. =)
Now that you have his basic walk movement down, you should add some secondary animations to give him some weight. Have his fists and hair lag behind a bit when his body falls, and then have them come back up. Have his hair move around. Etc, etc. It'll make him look more lively.

Also, small, crappy edit for you:

Just to show you what I meant when I said you might want to put his left hand a bit more than his right. Your newest one is good too, though, so I'm not sure what you want to do. If you want to do a full-blown fighting stance, Pixel's updated RCR poses are better than mine, anyway. Those guys were/are pros for a reason, after all. X3

Also, I just have to say that I applaud your design decision to have the main character walk around in boxing gloves all day. It's awesomely silly and retro of you.
Nothing says "I'm gonna kick your ass!" like walking around town in boxing gloves scowling at people. This guy means business! XD
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 04:18:08 pm by jams0988 »

Offline Phlakes

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 09:37:18 pm
I have to say that this might be a case where style trumps realism. As much as people familiar with boxing would appreciate a realistic stance, I'm guessing the majority of the audience wouldn't be familiar with it and would just see it as rigid rather than realistic. Either way works, but numlock should keep everything in mind when/if he considers changing it or not.

Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #15 on: March 19, 2012, 10:15:33 pm
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I have to say that this might be a case where style trumps realism. As much as people familiar with boxing would appreciate a realistic stance, I'm guessing the majority of the audience wouldn't be familiar with it and would just see it as rigid rather than realistic. Either way works, but numlock should keep everything in mind when/if he considers changing it or not.
Aye, definitely something to consider. The main thing I'm worried about with having the arms done isn't that it looks unrealistic, it's that it looks slow. Your punches take longer to reach someone's face when they're down by your hips.

If you check out KoF or Street Fighter or any other fighter, they do have some pretty weird poses sometimes, but their hands are always up, at the very least. I read somewhere that the goal of animation isn't realism, but believability; as long as it looks cool and believable, it's fine.

If someone can make Pixel's pose look cool and aggressive in an animation, then of course it's totally fine. I just think it'd be easier to make an actual fighting stance read like a fighting stance, rather than trying to work from something that very obviously isn't a fighting stance. Well, again, if the main character was going to throw all slow hooks, with a bunch of grappling involved, Pixel's stance might work just fine. Usually people want the character they're controlling to be quick, though.

*shrug.*
As long as it looks good, that's all that matters in the end, hahah. I'd love to see both animated, honestly. I do like Pixel's style a lot. =)

Offline skeme_IN5

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 02:04:07 am
About the fighting stances, Im a long time boxing and MMA fan so I thought I would share what I know about different stances.
Im no expert though so some of what I say might not be 100% accurate. Im more of a fan than a practitioner.
A boxing stance should have the rear hand up high if anything. The lead hand can be high too but some fighters(mostly counter fighters) like to leave it down.
Jams, I know you said you didnt draw the rear hand up high in your edit because it might block the face details, but it makes your stance look more like a karate stance with the lead hand up high and the rear hand low. Still looks cool though...just not a boxing stance.
Im pretty sure that grappling stances like BJJ, judo and wrestling are usually hunched with the elbows in tight and both hands up to about chest level? I should actually know this because because I just started BJJ classes. :blind:
I think Jams is right about most people liking the fighter to be quick, and a compact stance does give speed.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 02:06:28 am by skeme_IN5 »
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Offline numlock

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 04:55:54 am
today I didn't do many things but here my progress
I polished walking and tried to add weight to hair, it doesn't look as good as I want though I'll try fixing it

I definitely want fast puncher character, so I tried making fast punches it was harder than I thought, I really could't add weight I think I should stop using prototype except head for each animation

I started this one but I kinda get lazy and it didn't give the punch feeling that I want I guess

this one was first tried to make exactly like rcr

Numlock, I'm liking his new pose, but his face looks too happy to me for some reason, even though his eyebrows say he's angry, hahah!
And is that your first walk cycle? If so, that's really impressive. If not, it's still looking pretty good. =)
he actually should look determined more than angry:), also this was my second walk cycle though first one was so bad and floppy it hurts to look at it, I'll try to give more time to animate, I like smooth animations and I can see people like to see smooth pixel animations too so I guess you can't go wrong with that

-also characters pose looking slow noted, I think I like it as it is but it might change with time, tough I think I need to work on animations before that

-also I don't know much about it but I should make tiles even for beatemup right? or should I draw every room by hand?

again thank you all for your time and help, I can see that its progressing lot faster with your help.

Offline 9_6

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 09:12:31 am


You need anticipation frames.
As a general rule of thumb, if something is supposed to suddenly move forward, something has to move backwards first. Here, the whole body moves backwards.
While it moves forward, something else is likely to move backwards to balance it. That would be the other fist.
You would also not just punch with your arms only, you actually punch with the weight of your whole body so that should move too.
Most notably, your torso will want to move forward and your shoulder will want to rotate. Try it.

This goes for the heaviest as well as the lightest punches. Your body just does that motion due to the sheer sudden acceleration.
If the body remains static, it's barely more than a gentle slap.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 09:29:58 am by 9_6 »
Does scaling an image blur it?
Opera fix Firefox fix

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] need help with pixel character

Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 09:25:54 am


Read this if you are not already familiar with it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation

Game animation has slightly different challenges than film.
But a large portion of the principles carry over just fine.
There is probably a link somewhere that covers the principles in much better detail.
It lacks good examples but the theory is mostly correct.

Sorry for such a vague post but I gotta hit the sack.
Will explain my edits with diagrams soon.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 09:36:50 am by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1