AuthorTopic: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions  (Read 17362 times)

Offline goat

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Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

on: May 31, 2006, 07:38:08 pm
A week late, but still better than never.  Damn finals!

Here are a few popular titles that didn't make it last time.
Suggestions are open--if you have an idea for a game we should cover, share it!

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
Yoshi's Island
Dragon's Fury (thx u Turbo)

This one will run into the first week of July (along with the July critique) so we get a whole month out of it without really disrupting the flow.  Voting will end on the 7th.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 09:21:37 pm by goat »
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Offline Turbo

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 08:13:30 pm
If it's not out of place of me to suggest another option, how about we do a pinball game? I remember quite liking Dragon's Fury for the MegaDrive/Genesis. It had a generally bland main playing field, but some awesome art on the sub-levels.

Pics here: http://genesisreviews.tripod.com/reviews/dragonsfury.html

Offline goat

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 08:33:14 pm
Quote
If it's not out of place of me to suggest another option
Hell no! If anyone would rather see a game not listed covered, then by all means recommend it.  The leftovers from last week are just there as a starting point -- I certainly don't mean to dictate what games we can and cannot critique.

I actually rented both of those pinball games back in the day.  Looking at them now, they have to be some of the best uses of the Megadrive palette I've ever seen.  Jesus.
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Offline Ayavaron

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 08:52:48 pm
How about critiquing something that isn't actually pixel art?

I recall in another thread someone mentioned the idea of critiquing bad pixel art, and what I have in mind is similar. I think we should critique a game taht uses pre-rendered 3D sprites instead of actual sprites or 3D graphics. I think it would be very interesting to see how well fake pixel art compares to true pixel art, especially in the eyes of the other pixel artists here.

I'm pretty sure Starcraft used this method, and also the Command and Conquer series, but I have in mind something more obscure. I present to you, Rockman Strategy! The guy has almost all of the game's sprites ripped. Just click on the image of the character you want to see.

Of course, this game does it particularly badly, and a different game that does this might be more fun to critique.

(Unrelated: I know, first post. I've been lurking here for a while though.)
I'm not much of an artist, but please trust me when I criticize your hard work.

Offline goat

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 09:10:44 pm
Welcome :P and you bring up an interesting point.  My unofficial reply would be that the point of this exercise is to identify, discuss and critique techniques in and unique to pixel art, and holding non-pixeled works up to those standards would be pointless.  This is, after all, a pixel forum.

As for critiquing BAD pixel art, it would be a refreshing change of pace.  We've already done some similar stuff to that and it's led us to develop a kind of unwritten criteria to identify bad/ripped art.  Something more formal would be neat, but we'd have to have some exemplary specimens of bad pixel art for it to work :P
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 09:13:04 pm by goat »
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Offline Filax_666

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 09:14:24 pm
I've said it before but it won't hurt if I say it again, I hope...

X-MEN 3! And, if we're lucky, we might even have the actual artists explaining how they did the stuff!



But this might not be the best idea.

Offline Turbo

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 09:15:39 pm
Ok, nice.

Just dropped in to say you added an extra " at the end of the html link up there, rendering it inoperative.

Offline goat

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 09:22:56 pm
CRISIS AVERTED.

Filax: I'd be game unless someone had a good reason why we shouldn't :p
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Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 09:53:26 pm
I had a cool idea last time, but I forgot to post, and now I forgot the game...

I'd like to see a sports game perhaps...

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #9 on: May 31, 2006, 10:36:22 pm
If i may make a suggestion, id love to see Gunstar Heroes added to the list as a game that is somewhere between great and mediocre, offering a possible critique of really good and really poor use of various techniques, sometimes within the same screenshot.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #10 on: May 31, 2006, 10:49:18 pm
agree gunstar is both good and bad, sometimes at the same time.

Offline Mr.Modem

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #11 on: June 01, 2006, 02:36:25 pm
I suggest the old Amiga classic Cruise for a Corpse - http://hol.abime.net/3134/screenshot. It's an awesome mix between pixelled backgrounds and vector sprites made by Delphin Software, the team that made Anothe World and Flashback.

It would also be fun to critique a game that uses the EGA palette, maybe some Sierra adventure game or something.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 02:39:32 pm by Mr.Modem »
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Offline Meta|Fox

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #12 on: June 03, 2006, 12:32:48 am
Id love to do a cover of Dragon Warrior VII or one of the Dragon Warrior Monster games.
http://www.rpglegion.com/sprites/dw7/index.htm

(also Dragon Warrior Monster is one of my fav old games)
I just love the style in which the do there sprites.

If not that I wouldnt mind doing Final Fantasy Tactics advanced as i think it has some great pixel work in it
http://www.square-enix-usa.com/games/FFT-A/

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Offline Dusty

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #13 on: June 03, 2006, 01:39:45 am
I liked Minish Cap...

Also, I loved the animation and sprite detail in Aladdin for the SNES... The backgrounds weren't anything spectacular, but I thought it had awesome animation. But that's just me.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #14 on: June 03, 2006, 02:02:40 am
I'd like to nominate cavestory, not quite a commercial game, but it is going to made into a commercial PSP game. I was obsessed with this game for a while, plays great and has nice graphics
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Offline Kren

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #15 on: June 03, 2006, 02:10:18 am
I agree with takam. Cavestory has some cool graphics. or Yoshi Island, the game has some unique childish graphics.

Offline Ayavaron

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #16 on: June 03, 2006, 02:17:33 am
I was actually thinking of recomending Cave Story earlier, but for some reason I decided against. It seems worthy of some critique.

I really like those rock tiles used in the backgrounds.
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Offline Sohashu

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #17 on: June 04, 2006, 09:32:22 am
ultimate spiderman.
Back from hiatus, just remembered how excellent this community is at forming technique in a fledgeling artist of any kind.

Offline Evil-Ville

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #18 on: June 04, 2006, 11:01:17 am
I vote for Cave Story just because I spent around 100 hours playing it last year.

Offline Blick

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #19 on: June 04, 2006, 08:12:55 pm
Quote
I'd like to see a sports game perhaps...
Megaman Soccer was always a good one.

As usual, my vote goes to Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #20 on: June 05, 2006, 12:31:27 am
im going to vote for cave story too, id forgotten about that one.
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Offline Q.K.

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #21 on: June 05, 2006, 01:23:56 am
I'm voting for Cave Story.

Offline Xion

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #22 on: June 05, 2006, 04:21:32 am
Cave Story.

Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #23 on: June 05, 2006, 02:09:31 pm
Cave story? Bad physics and retro graphics? What can we learn from that?

Offline Ayavaron

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #24 on: June 05, 2006, 03:15:41 pm
I think the game has both good and bad graphics. It kind of shows the development of Pixel as a pixel artist over the course of his five year development time working on Cave Story.
I'm not much of an artist, but please trust me when I criticize your hard work.

Offline Xion

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #25 on: June 05, 2006, 11:26:56 pm
You got a beef with retro, Gil?

Offline Akira

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #26 on: June 06, 2006, 12:27:12 am
yeah cave story. the sprite sheets are actually in the game folder aren't they? so we can get anything we need. + its freeware etc. etc.
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline Rawsushi

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #27 on: June 06, 2006, 01:34:45 am
Cave Story is, indeed, a great game. However, the graphics are nothing to write home about.

I guess I ought to save any rants for later.

Offline Xion

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #28 on: June 06, 2006, 02:57:37 am
Then we can pick at what we do and don't like. What could be better & what is done well, etc. I think it's a good choice so that, unlike some commercial critiques, we (less hawkeyed artists) can actually critique it rather than just gawk while people like you, Monsoon, and Helm and the other madly skilled people on this forum pick it apart like vultures... -_-'

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #29 on: June 06, 2006, 03:44:07 am
cave story wasnt a beautiful amazing looking game, but it had nice clean graphics that got the job done, a few things seemed really strange to me at first but I got used to it and how its done.

its not like all these critique topics have to be about complete works of art like others have already mentioned too
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Offline Rawsushi

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #30 on: June 06, 2006, 05:06:39 am
Fair enough. Then with that, I'll cast my vote for Cave Story as well.

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #31 on: June 06, 2006, 12:05:10 pm
Cave story? Bad physics and retro graphics? What can we learn from that?

What does that have to do with anything? :P

Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #32 on: June 06, 2006, 04:55:14 pm
I dunno, I never liked Cave Story. Same with "Out Of This World". The graphics were okay, but with such bad gameplay it's hard to enjoy imo. The way physics were handled in Cave Story was downright annoying, jumping just didn't feel natural...

And I never said I didn't vote Cave Story because of bad physics, I just mentioned that I think you can't really learn anything from that particular game, code-wise or graphic-wise...

Offline Xion

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #33 on: June 07, 2006, 04:38:56 am
Same with "Out Of This World". The graphics were okay, but with such bad gameplay it's hard to enjoy imo.
[irrlevancy]OOTW was a great, great game...but everyone's entitled to their opinion.


Even if it's wrong.

I, for one, abhorred all of the 2d POP games and have no idea why the franchise became famous.[/irrelevancy]

Offline goat

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #34 on: June 07, 2006, 04:46:07 pm
Cave story: 6
everything else: 1 each :p
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Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #35 on: June 07, 2006, 05:00:23 pm
[irrlevancy]OOTW was a great, great game...but everyone's entitled to their opinion.[/irrelevancy]

When I press jump, the guy needs to jump, reactiveness of the buttons was really far, far, FAR below standard, at least on the SNES version, this just made it annoying...

Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #36 on: June 11, 2006, 11:49:46 pm
I just remembered what game I wanted to propose!

What about Commander Keen? I think there's a lot to be said about the series. CK6 was fabulous graphically imo, especially player animations...

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #37 on: June 12, 2006, 01:13:07 am
this voting system is becoming a popularity contest.

I think there is little reason to look at either Demon's Crest or Cave Story, the two just happened to catch some popularity in the nomination contest.

if you just make poll topics and then expect people to come out of nowhere to analyze them I dont think it will really work, the crit topics that have worked functioned because there were two or three experienced pixelers devoted to finding out underlying truths about the game.

this is about critique and analysis, not what has the greatest hype. I think these suggestion topic should focus on recruiting a few members who would like to take a deep look at a given game rather than just seeing what might catch on.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 01:14:39 am by Conceit »

Offline Gil

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 01:22:35 am
Agreed. Oh, and I call dibs on saying "I told you so" when Cave Story never picks up interest...

Offline Turbo

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #39 on: June 12, 2006, 01:35:45 pm
Such is democracy. Now stop whining.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #40 on: June 12, 2006, 02:31:43 pm
maybe make it so that only people who actually offer critiques can vote? (though that takes my vote away :P)

if i had more time id get mroe into cave story, theres a lot that i like and a lot that i hate about it and just not enough time to say what or why in a cohesive manner.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #41 on: September 24, 2006, 11:11:41 pm
Nevermind, accidental post!


miascugh-edit: Happy 100th post, it's a worthy one ;)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 11:15:42 pm by miascugh »

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #42 on: September 24, 2006, 11:32:26 pm
Maniac Mansion?

Offline Godslayer

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #43 on: September 24, 2006, 11:55:15 pm
You'll notice, by the name of the very thread, that this is a dead post.
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Offline miascugh

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Re: Next Commercial Critique (June 06): Suggestions

Reply #44 on: September 25, 2006, 12:12:45 am
Yes indeed it is, and expect a slightly reorganized CC routine to be installed soon. I'm locking this since it's long served its purpose.