Pixelation

Critique => 2D & 3D => Topic started by: Feron on June 23, 2008, 01:25:14 pm

Title: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on June 23, 2008, 01:25:14 pm
Hello and welcome to the official anatomy thread.  Many pieces posted in the pixel-art board seem to get repeated critique about flawed anatomy.  This thread is here to post your studies and progress in learning anatomy.

Learning anatomy can and should take years; you will become a better artist because of it.  After many anatomical failures with pixel-art I have taken to pencil sketching.  I recommend you do the same, as it is the most efficient and accurate way of practising.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Helm for his nagging to get me to begin this process :P, as well as his invaluable time helping me out.  Thanks Bro!

Now I would like to share with you the progress I have made in about a week.  Not only to get some more feedback, but also to inspire people.  I am by no means a good artist but I think there is definite progress in my work.  Study and practise are the keys.

URLs removed ("dead" links) -Crow

Of course all of these arenít still there yet, but I am getting closer, and I can see where Iím going wrong.

I have gathered quite a lot of resources, mainly from Helm, Ptoing and Google images.

I think it is probably best to begin with the human skeleton: URL removed ("dead" link) -Crow

Followed by a few technical diagrams: URL removed ("dead" link) -Crow

And finally photo reference:  URL removed ("dead" link) -Crow


Hopefully this thread will help people improve their anatomy sketching, and will share with us their progress.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on June 23, 2008, 01:27:25 pm
This thread is officially sanctioned and stickied  :mean:

help each other and help yourselves. I will be posting here regularily. Critique to come.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on June 23, 2008, 03:22:14 pm
A few weeks ago (okay last month) was the last time I did any anatomical, er, studies. I should be doing them a few hours a day now that it's summer, but I got caught up in programming.  >:(

www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/anato.jpg

I know, I should have used references, but I didn't have my computer. That's something I really gotta fix, because I'll never learn what things actually are, only what I percieve them to be, without SCIENCE .

Anyway if you uh can't tell what they are it's a profile and an arm with WHAT I THINK TO BE ( ::)) forshortening but I'm 999% sure I did that wrong. I remember reading in Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy (Which is back in the damn library) that a form emerging from the background towards the camera will lose length but not width. wee. Looking back on it now the upper arm should have been coming from the right or center, I broke that person's arm.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: skw on June 23, 2008, 04:23:23 pm
great! what about having some sort of exercises we could practise here? maybe you, Helm, would want to prepare something for us? I mean one or two simple drawing tasks that would help us to embrace the concept of anatomy better. not feeling competent enough, I couldn't come up with anything useful.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on June 23, 2008, 06:52:57 pm
I'll try and post more later. Maybe it will inspire me to continue on with my in depth studies : D
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_1897.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2193.jpg)( This page mostly copied from Mentler at Ca.org)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2192.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2191.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2210.jpg)
Let me know if you want these as links instead of images.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on June 23, 2008, 09:46:25 pm
Okay, I'll bite. No refs or anything. Also I can't draw hands. :( Also penisguidelines (tm) are off center. Halp would be appreciated mucho.

http://cow.lastchancemedia.com/doodles/tmp14.jpg (http://cow.lastchancemedia.com/doodles/tmp14.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on June 24, 2008, 05:25:08 am
Original pieces were:

Salaryman (http://www.locustleaves.com/sararyman2.png)

Sad girl (http://www.locustleaves.com/sadgirl2.png)

Critique received and heeded from posts:

Sherman (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5006.msg76529#msg76529)

Arachne (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5006.msg76539#msg76539)

Ben (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5006.msg76582#msg76582)

Willows (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5006.msg76598#msg76598)

huZba (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5006.msg76607#msg76607)

For which I thank them greatly. Most points addressed to the best of my ability. Here are the newest pieces:

(http://www.locustleaves.com/sararyman3.png)(http://www.locustleaves.com/sadgirl3.png)

Only piece of critique I didn't go for is the gun crit, I really don't care to have super-realistic guns, it's a gun. Oh and salary dudes leg is still bent at an impossible angle, but I sorta like that bit so I keep it!

Now, here are some replies to the other posts in this thread:

Cow: not bad at all! Work with a more precise medium next time (or at a bigger size at least) so the grain doesn't cover up mistakes. The body anatomy is pretty much ok from my point of view, but you gotta draw hands, lots of them. Forget the hair on the head for an anatomy model, don't obstruct the facial features, draw as analytical as possible, these are SCIENCE!! drawings, not 'let's express a character' art pieces. Do not cut off such pieces at any point, draw it all, draw the legs, draw everything. Is this from reference, from life? Keep it up!

Ryumaru: ace stuff, very rigorous. Impressive that you're working the bones below the body. You'll certainly be going places, fast. I have no real critique for you, you know more about bones and arms and backs than I do. Please, please give critique and paintovers to other participants in the thread though. Giving back is wonderful.

Skurwy: yeah, perhaps some exercises later on, sure! When I have some free time.

Atnas: same here for my lack of SCIENCE. The thing is, I come from a comic-art background (uh, I think it shows) and not a fine-art background. In my field, copying reference is usually considered lifting, art-theft, exactly because in your finished comic you don't have at the end some sort of archive of used reference and pictures to be honest. So if there's a precious thing in my field (at least in most cases) is a strong inner eye for construction, characterization and storytelling. Anatomy is important as far as it communicates emotion and character. You'll notice that almost all of my character art is like this. I am no anatomy expert by any chance, since I literally have learnt anatomy 97% by memory and trying to find applicative construction of the human form in a story-telling medium. I need to bust out the SCIENCE much, much more too, and I hope this thread will help me. In the end I will always work from memory for my proper comic-art because it's an issue of ethos (plus I do not have delusions of being a fine artist. If it reads, if it is placed in its proper field, if it emotes, it works for me) but I'd rather learn the SCIENCE and then rest it aside than hide behind my finger. So yes, this thread will be very good for me too, especially since I'm going to be drawing a lot of comic pages the next few months and I'll need your help much more in those than in pixel art.

The arm you drew does not obey a reasonable foreshortening. The upper arm is really short compared to the fore. The actual construction of the fore is convincing enough as far as I'm concerned. The head is much more problematic. Start with a perfect circle when doing head construction, right now it's a bit misshapen. Avoid scribbling, every line should be intentful. Don't shade vague areas as much as define with your pencil, in straight lines (think like a low-poly 3d artist. Look at what ryu did with the shoulder-blade bone, first a triangle, then a polyhedron, then a full shape, then rendered) the different areas of overlapping shading. Think in volumes, not details. High contrast is the friend of the anatomy discipline because it forces you to deal in clean volumes, not implications of volumes, not promises of volumes. As a comic artist I am a bit biased here, but I say: if you can't render it in 3 values (black, mid-tone, white) then you cannot render it at all and more rendering can save it but it will just distract from your disability.

Study ears (also Helm: study ears), study eyes (same, Helm) don't scribble. If you want a paint-over, shout.

Feron: we've talked in private on these pieces, I think more ground-up arm studies will help, and never stop revising the full-body diagram until you feel confident enough to let it rest for a while, and work on heads then.

edit: because the sadgirl edits are pretty nitpicky, here's an anim that will override your eye memory

(http://www.locustleaves.com/sadanim.gif)

More substantial changes than they seemed at first, huh? 2 is newer, and hopefully better, btw
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on June 24, 2008, 08:58:37 am
Helm: Thankyou, and yes sir!

Cow: some things
- Odd angles might be messing things up
- head a bit too small
-chest( pectoralis major) too small, the standard is one head height, I myself have a measurement of about 3/4 of a head, but 1/2 is much to small
-ribcage a bit too small, should go down further
-crotch should be higher, one head- chest, two heads- naval, 3 heads- crotch
- arm a bit too long, although not an impossible length, just irregular. bottom of the ulna( makes up the end of the elbow) should be AT the navel when arms are completely down
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/tmp14.jpg)
- good job on the abs
- nice rendering
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on June 24, 2008, 11:02:02 am
Thank you for taking the time out to help, Helm. I'll pull out Hogarth and STUDY the masses of the head, as well as concentrating specifically the ears. :)

Silly me I forgot about digital. I saw "anatomy thread" and headed straight for my sketchbook, for some reason. (not like I can render well yet or anything)

These are rather old but I did do touch ups just last week to update them with anything I may have learned. If anything, the eyes are outdated and I will do a newer one.

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/eye.jpg

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/010308-3.jpg (very old, it needs tilt and a firmer foundation, and the hand should rest more on it's own without help of a muscle)

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/032108.jpg

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/anatarm.jpg (the top one was actually a thumbnail for a larger study in acrylic but my school stole the painting)

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/anatsplish.jpg

http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/eyelitestud.jpg

These are all rather old in comparison to what I showed earlier, save for most of the digital.

Enough of old art! I'll start studying immediately and post it for analysis.  ;D

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on June 25, 2008, 10:19:50 pm
Atnas: Foreshortening is a bitch plain and simple,
im not even sure I got it completely right
(I rotated to to make it easier to understand)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/anato.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on June 26, 2008, 03:04:25 am
Atnas, I suggest you post only your most recent stuff in such a thread so critique you may get is not redundant.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on June 26, 2008, 06:22:29 am
Thanks a lot Helm, Ryu, I'll post some more stuff here, with 65% more science!

EDIT: Almost forgot, no refs or anything Helm. From imagination. You know, the part of the imagination that depicts naked men.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on June 26, 2008, 07:50:16 am
The best part of the imagination.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mirre on June 26, 2008, 02:10:20 pm
Hey guys. Been a while since I posted anything. Great topic here, so I'm going to throw in a sketch I did recently for some crits. Go all out if you feel like it. Helm brought my attention to the fact that there's probably something wrong with the right arm (from us seen). Don't know quite how to make it look right though so any C&C is appreciated.

Also throwing in a preliminary sketch (that is a bit wonky) of a tattoo I'm getting this autumn. No anathomy help needed on that one, but it's supposed to look slightly made out of bones, so if anyone knows how to make that shine through better - I'll love you long time!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/Mirre/images/lotikisketch1a.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/Mirre/images/nyckel1.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: AlexHW on June 26, 2008, 03:00:25 pm
looks like she has no wrist that connect to the arm.
as for the right arm i think the forearm is a bit short.. could be helped by adding a bit of a wrist.
try bringing your hand/wrist up to your shoulder and see where it reaches.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on June 26, 2008, 09:57:56 pm
Hands are also too small.  something about the perspective of her boobs and her torso seems a bit wrong.


Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on June 28, 2008, 06:29:13 am
I need to draw more chicks -_-
any and all crits would be very appreciated.
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2534.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2528.jpg)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2518.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on June 28, 2008, 06:43:11 am
Top one, something seems odd about the left shoulder. I dunno, a bit manish I guess.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 01, 2008, 08:52:37 am
some quick anatomy practice for the night.  couple hours. no reference, but I probably should have used some...

(http://danfessler.com/dump/anatomy6.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on July 01, 2008, 08:56:46 am
Indigo - that's a very nice piece but all his muscles seem very angular, whereas the real muscle structure of the body is very curved and fluid.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Willows on July 01, 2008, 05:26:02 pm
Is it possible to learn anything anatomy-wise without reference? I'm not being sarcastic (ironic?), that's a legitimate question!

And -his- left arm looks horribly, horribly broken, as the shoulder and arm point totally different directions.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 01, 2008, 05:43:24 pm
hmmm... you are right about his left arm... I'll look into that.

as for learning anatomy without reference - no you cannot.  But unless you apply what you've learned *without* reference, you are merely just replicating photos.  So as you cannot *learn* anatomy without reference, you can learn how to apply it without.  (as I'm doing here)

and the angular-ness of the image - obviously an artistic choice.  I'm going through an angular phase right now I think.  If we had to render everything exactly how it is then we wouldn't be much of artists would we?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 01, 2008, 11:06:49 pm
Willows: it's possible to learn anatomy without PHOTO reference, photos are actually quite unnecessary. but when you get to learning the bones I doubt you would want to dissect somebody and learn from life.... although that one guy has been getting on my nerves lately...
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 02, 2008, 05:07:09 am
UPDATE:  thanks for the crits

(http://danfessler.com/dump/anatomy7.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Rosse on July 02, 2008, 06:10:05 am
about angular muscles
Curves abstracted to angles is not necessarily a stylistic choice but a great way of learning the essence of a form. Where curves can be fuzzy, angles are abstracted forms (of the original curve) and therefore more clear and much easier to read. This knowledge can be extended when it's solid enough (Going from rough to fine).

about practicing anatomy without studying the inner parts
Anatomy does not only contain bones, tendons and muscles. There are other parts (some maybe more important) like gesture and overall proportions. These can be learned and studied just by observing and imitating nature (through life (or photos)) without the knowledge of the inner structure (except for the rough skeletal maybe). Bengal (http://cafesale.net/bengal/) is a (exceptional case?) artist which practice very believable anatomy without studying the fundamentals, but you need a good sense for aesthetic and shapes. So I say it's possible, but there's no need to skip this study. First it's just a shortcut and these are never a good way of going through life. Second you will always be limited on the poses you learned and the others will lack of believability. If you really master anatomy with all his fine details you can create every pose from every angle in a believable way.
One thing to mention at last. You should be an artist first and physician last. So learn as much that you can communicate your message but as less that you keep loose and not end in stiff, over rendered muscle men.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on July 02, 2008, 10:30:53 am
and the angular-ness of the image - obviously an artistic choice.  I'm going through an angular phase right now I think.  If we had to render everything exactly how it is then we wouldn't be much of artists would we?

Yes, artistic choice is fine, but if you are doing it to practise your anatomy skills then just stick to the basics leaving all artistic choice behind.  If your doing it to create a piece of art which features a naked man, knock yourself out.
 :)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 02, 2008, 03:47:48 pm
I disagree.  i think Rosse explains my point much better than I could. 
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 02, 2008, 04:34:18 pm
Indigo, you're treating the pecks like some sort of mutable film. While they are indeed flexible and will hold and support the arms in any position, they are still pivoted at specific points to the chest. A peck will not rise independent of the bone structure  below it and that's why it's a good idea to study what's underneath the muscles too. You have a deep shadow under that peck that you probably should smooth out, I'd say. Also go ahead and place the nipples in non-vague positions so that can be examined I'd say.

As a muscle study it's okay, but it's missing hands and two legs. I know it might sound pedantic that I write this, but really you should finish all the body in such sketches. If you had, you'd see that you need to give support for the pose in the end, and that the feet must propel the center of gravity in a meaningful way. Furthermore, hands and body language would further explain that your anatomy study, even as an anatomy study, must emote something. The body must be trying to tell some sort of story. Otherwise as it has been noted, it's just a drawing of some naked muscle. I'll take an anatomically faulty but emotive construction over a hundred muscle-impressive, dense and angular-cool looking figures that do not seem to serve a meaning.

The post by Rosse is one that finds me in agreement also. Bengal is good but you can see how his art evolves out of anime-cliche and as such the bodies he draws have that sort of effect about them, making their language somewhat stilted at times, I'd say.

Quote
One thing to mention at last. You should be an artist first and physician last. So learn as much that you can communicate your message but as less that you keep loose and not end in stiff, over rendered muscle men.

Quite.

Ryu:

Quote
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/IMG_2518.jpg

Facial characteristics all squatted at the bottom of the face. Time for face studies not just body studies! Furthermore I guess, short torso, very small legs and waist.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Willows on July 03, 2008, 05:07:44 am
Figured I'd chuck some schoolwork out here. I'm still learning like a sonofabitch, but it's coming along.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/2min_1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/5min_1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/5min_2.jpg


(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/5min_3.jpg)

There's three links up above that massive image, if you're looking for more!

If you see any consistent failures, feel free to point 'em out. I'm always looking to improve :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 03, 2008, 02:21:16 pm
Helm: thanks, you got me to look at some things I didnt even notice before. About the face, I drew it with only pen and I accidentally drew that nose and was like" shit" so I just squeezed the lips in there. The eyes are more or less in the right place though?

Willows: these all have very good gestures to them, which comes in later. They lack solid construction.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 03, 2008, 04:21:34 pm
I don't think so. Let's look at this chart:

(http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/diagrams/helmchart.png)

and apply the SCIENCE.

(http://www.locustleaves.com/anat.gif)

here's the psd (http://www.locustleaves.com/anat.psd) if you need it

More critique soon.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 03, 2008, 05:25:08 pm
Oh ok, thanks alot Helm, the head was supposed to be tilted down a bit, but the neck is also messed up and doesn't reflect that but even so the eyes are much too low.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 03, 2008, 06:36:59 pm
Oh sorry to misinterpreted that. Here's a big drawover with various points. Check it with lower opacity in the psd (http://www.locustleaves.com/anatbig.zip)

Sorry for messy drawing, I am ON THE RUN!!!

(http://www.locustleaves.com/anatbig.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2008, 12:44:53 pm
(http://www.locustleaves.com/helmdude4.png)(http://www.locustleaves.com/couple2.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 07, 2008, 04:20:15 pm
- girls left hand just doesn't work as its supposed to I think
- maybe do something with the new guys left pinky or really the part where it attaches to his hand. It makes it look like the palm of his hand is a centimeter thick
- all of these drawings are really nice. I want to have a comic by helm up in my shelf! or maybe id frame it :O
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Xion on July 07, 2008, 06:52:04 pm
in addition to what  Ryu said, the chick's feet look as though she's standing on uneven ground.

in agreement with what Ryu said:
the knifehand looks real wierd and...bulky? compared to her other hand.
Maybe people have different proportions for their hands, but that little bunch of meat on the outside of my hand beneath my pinky is wider than my actual pinky by just a little bit. Of course it's not very defined either.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2008, 07:07:05 pm
Thanks for all the crits! I will address them! The next character is hilarious.

Edit: productive day

Meet (http://www.locustleaves.com/tsigos1.png) Bernard (http://www.locustleaves.com/tsigos2.png) Chrome (http://www.locustleaves.com/tsigos3.png). (http://www.locustleaves.com/tsigos4.png)

(http://www.locustleaves.com/chrome2.png)

I feel dirty for having drawn this.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 07, 2008, 09:47:46 pm
If you're talking about the feeling you get after drawing muscly men- drawing a naked lady or two gets rid of it for me :P
Oh man his right arm is in trouble. Take your arm and fully straight out, put your palm outwards, and you will notice that your bicep and entire upper arm will look like how your guy's is right now. Then while keeping your arm out, put your palm facing it towards you, the way you have it in your drawing now, and you will notice that the upper arm completely changes.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 07, 2008, 09:49:59 pm
hm depends how you're flexing it though!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on July 07, 2008, 10:12:03 pm
I'm not sure if it's in spite of or because I can't read Greek, but those melting-guy comics are hilarious for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 08, 2008, 12:19:11 am
Helm, I especially like the new one with the girl and guy.  Very nice stuff - Though I think the way you render feet could be improved a bit across all your images.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/calypson/helm2.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/calypson/helm1.jpg)

the image on the left points out problem areas and things of the sort, while the image on the right shows an example of how the critique can be applied...

I'll go through one by one.

The thigh of (his) left leg currently doesn't support the flow of the figure.  It appears to by almost sagging despite his beefed/firm muscles.  The red arrow shows your current action-line, and the blue line shows a possible fix.

Also on that same thigh, the frontmost muscle on the quads is just a tiny sliver in comparison to that of his right.   I think his right thigh is better rendered in this regard.

His right arm also has a number of problems.  with the palm of the hand facing away from the camera,  all the muscles should twist around to support it.  the forearm seems to do this pretty well, but the upper are doesn't at all. the bicept should wedge between the upper (extensors) and underside muscles of the forearms, but currently there is no such flow in it's connection (Ryumaru mentioned this as well)  Also, his deltoid is no where near it's relative size it should be in comparison to his left.

on his left arm I outlined the extensor muscle.  These muscles do not wrap underneath the wrists.  They stay on top.  You actually did this quite nicely on his right arm, but not his left.

lastly, I believe you've over-exaggerated his lat.  Even on the most extreme buff men, the contour of the lat should meet up somewhere where the shoulder joint is.  They way you have it drawn now suggests it connects somewhere to the underside of the tricept.

[edited a couple things]
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2008, 12:42:03 am
I guess I should post these directly to the Anatomy thread  ::)

Good points all around and I will address what I can tomorrow. Keep in mind though that whereas your rationales for the edits are sound most of the time, the proposed solutions you present suffer from Marvelitis. You sorta misconstrue my intention. It is worthwhile to remember that this sort of physique is not the result of nature and as such the 'perfect stylized uberman' that one learns to draw from studying American superhero comics is only one possible abstraction of how muscles would work (or say, stack) when pumped up to such grotesquery by overworking out and possibly chemicals. Dude is not supposed to look like he has an 'awesome', enviable body, he's supposed to look icky with his huge piles of pock-ridden meat. Your edit misinterprets the theme of the picture, and while it's really useful to get anatomy critique at any case, I hope you don't mind my critique your intention in critiquing. I am trying to communicate a small story much more than I am trying to be a physician here.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_6X0pq71c8Ng/R6gaaYdusGI/AAAAAAAAAOY/cTeE3FEe6EE/s1600-h/9804-BodyBuilding-2.jpg check this out
and http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/body_builder_10sfw.gif
and tell me if these are patented Marvel ubermen or if they're distinctively different.

(http://timepass.onlyfanpics.com/h/heightofbodybuilding/part-004.jpeg)
What is my life. Where am I? How long have I been out-cold? If you drew this, would you expect to get anatomy critique for it?

(http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7821/bodybuildingathlete01vd3.jpg)
Check out the legs here. Are they the same legs you envision every time you think of drawing a muscly human? (also, enjoy suprise ball!)

The left (ours) shoulder is an extremely valid one though. I will have to rework that arm from the top, it seems. Legs crits aren't really doing it for me for mentioned reasons.

Also, forgot:

Quote
The thigh of (his) left leg currently doesn't support the flow of the figure.  It appears to by almost sagging despite his beefed/firm muscles.  The red arrow shows your current action-line, and the blue line shows a possible fix.

Again, intention. I am not drawing a superhero comic book where a streamlined direction for everything and total eye-please are the point. Sagging is good! Ugly is beautiful! An emotional response is valued higher than a pleasing, familiar and shapely uberman. Christ, look at his face!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 08, 2008, 12:50:28 am
None of my critique covered how to style the image (as you say Marvelitis).  All the critique I gave (with maybe the exception of the action-line on the thigh) is applicable to ALL styles as they are anatomy facts of positioning from life.  No matter how buff or exaggerated you're intending your muscleman to be, the positioning and general flow of the muscles remain the same

even in your picture examples you're showing here - they address all the issues that were mentioned in my critique.  their frontmost quad is not a sliver, their upperarm muscles flow naturally into the forearm, and the extensors dont wrap under the wrists but rather stay to the side as they should be.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2008, 12:54:45 am
More or less yes, no matter how you disfigure your body you probably won't misplace any discrete muscle groups, and an edit will be coming. What I wanted you to keep was that your proposed solutions, besides addressing soundly various errors I made prettied up the figure. "Duh, helm, if you fix muscles it'll look better!" yes, but I mean pretty as in some sort of beefcake ideal, which is the opposite of what I'm going for. It's a minor point for your interest (unlearn Marvelitis, Satan compels you!) and in no way meant to fight your critique, for which I thank you :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 08, 2008, 01:05:26 am
ah I understand.  To be more clear, my edit was not a proposed solution when it comes to the style of the image.  It was merely my way of showing the critique applied without regard to style - and it accomplishes this well.

Its a tangent point you make - and I do agree with it.  But as Ive said before, I've never read or studied american comic books before, and the style that is drawn by my hand is just how I interpret anatomy.  I am working on being a bit more dynamic with my renderings though.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2008, 01:20:15 am
no, be less dynamic!

fixes:

(http://www.locustleaves.com/chrome3.png)(http://www.locustleaves.com/chrome2.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 08, 2008, 01:27:55 am
the arm has been beautifully fixed.  I like it much more.  I'm still convinced that the saggy action-line of the leg is hurting the image quite a bit.

BTW, I tagged pixeljoint.  REPRESENT!!
http://pixeljoint.com/2008/07/06/2586/Indigos_Pixelation_Theme.htm
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2008, 01:34:46 am
haha, awesome! Using!

Also, check out how lowering the right (ours) clavicle helped the balance and 'how long are these arms anyway?' effect.

Sag stays  >:( :D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 08, 2008, 03:29:55 am
The arm is much better now. You said that it depends on how you flex but im sure you've noticed that while that is true to an extent it's impossible to get the upper and forearm to be in those positions and be perceivably connected.
Your doing a GREAT job of portraying ugly muscles, It's hard not to open him up in painter and pretty him up with more ideal shapes!

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 08, 2008, 11:48:28 am
Yeah I tried it and whereas it's mostly possible it's not really comfortable so I changed it. The lesson I must learn is to never draw the rotations of the muscles on the arm before settling on the exact position of the hand/palm.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Willows on July 09, 2008, 07:13:08 pm
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

I didn't notice the ball till you said it, helm, but compared to the muscles it's hardly an offence.

As for crits, his shirt is flattening the crap out of his chest. Make it follow the contours of his pecs... all his muscles, for that matter, so that you don't lose so much volume. Also, avoid the tangent lines you've got in places for the shirt, it's not helping the whole volume issues as it makes the shirt look tattooed on rather than worn.

I dislike how his neck is wrinkly and how his face kinda melts into it, but that might just be personal preference.

You also seem to be missing an entire muscle between the pec and shoulder. Look at the man with the exposed ball, he has some peculiar muscle located where the straps of your man's shirt are.

One last thing, you seem to have a set way of drawing elbows when they're anything close to 90 degree bends viewed from the side. I could be wrong, but I believe that's a pattern you might want to break out of!


@Ryumaru (or anyone, really)

Thanks ("Very good gestures" :O), and I agree that my drawings lack structure, but I'm having a bitch of a time figuring out where to get started on that problem. Any chance you've got any tips?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 09, 2008, 07:40:04 pm
Draw with basic forms- cubes and spheres. You will never have structure in anything when you draw with lines.( obviously not meant literally)
Bridgeman's anatomy books are wonderful because they show the body as interlocking " wedging" masses.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on July 17, 2008, 05:02:40 pm
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7115/armhelpwu2.png)

drawing an arm withdrawing a sword from the back is quite tough.

any suggestions?

also i think the rest of the anatomy is getting better :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: huZba on July 17, 2008, 05:47:53 pm
Your own body can be a very useful reference. Check out what happens when you lift your arm like that. Pay attention to your shoulder area. Just flexing around you can get a good feeling about the range of movement of the joints and so forth. Do what Ryumaru suggested. Use primitives to block out the character and see if it makes sense in a 3D space. Go ahead and draw more NAKED MEN and don't obscure or leave out areas like you did with the face and feet. Just draw them all in, you'll be later thankful that you did.

Proportions are better than before, but still a bit all over the place cause i can't eyeball a point of reference to determine the scale everything.
Try and re-iterate this picture by checking out what you like about this one and playing around with areas that don't seem so good. Draw in a bit of a hurry and don't be too specific about things, just doodle away and you'll end up with happy accidents when your eye picks up something that looks nice. Even if you can't remember everything about the human body, you still recognize one when you see it. Let the subconscious side do a bit of work for you.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ben2theEdge on July 17, 2008, 06:02:22 pm
Feron, this drawing reveals 2-dimensional thinking. If your character were trapped in a petri dish then this is how he would reach behind his back. But in 3 dimensions his elbow would move forward towards us, instead of to the side.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Feron on July 22, 2008, 02:48:52 pm
well i found some of my grandfathers ink pens, so i thought i'd try them out on a new anatomy sketch.

(http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8585/newanatbv3.jpg)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 22, 2008, 03:27:10 pm
reference charts again. Second head ends at where the nipples are, third head ends at navel, fourth head ends at genitals.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Evil-Ville on July 23, 2008, 07:47:09 am
You should probably draw both sides of the body. Also don't bother with detail until you've got the whole thing sketched.

(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3056/wiiiidecq7.jpg)

He's colossal!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Opacus on July 23, 2008, 10:13:49 am
I'm not exactly good at anatomy. But, I have some basic knowledge of it. Made an edit. Also just for some practice for myself I guess :D.
I still think he looks quite large but w/e.
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5373/feronanatomyeditxb9.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: miascugh on July 23, 2008, 02:42:09 pm
The overpaint's getting there, though the shapes all around still seem improvised, knees are way too far down. I don't think there's much point to practicing anatomy without references. And if you have trouble eye-balling the proportions use aids like grids and guidelines.. and start out rough to block out the proportions

(http://miascugh.ptoing.net/anat2.jpg)

I counted 7 1/2 heads in the reference (not Tom Hanks) and used those as basic reference point.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Conzeit on July 24, 2008, 06:03:13 am
(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3056/wiiiidecq7.jpg)

that's so wrong it becomes right...somehow.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on July 24, 2008, 11:11:10 am
evil-vile - your edit has extended the shins too far, which are really quite short in life (a thing I always forget and so have been studying).  The proper size i think lies somewhere between the yellow you put down and the black you made. 

In general though these legs seem a bit short for me - perhaps a third of a head - you can't turn an eight headed figure into a seven and a half headed figure without raising the ass slighly, and it was already too low in the original.  Although the bottom of the bottom should never quite be as high as the midline, for it to be 4.25/7ths of the way down (about 60%) is a bit silly :).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: miascugh on July 24, 2008, 01:32:34 pm
If by evil-ville you mean miascugh, then let me say, that my overpaint is strongly referenced from an anatomy book and sticks very closely to the head grid (I made the head-count on paper first, then by eye-measure in ps, might not be 100%-ly accurate, but looks decent enough to me). Anyway, I didn't use the underlying old sketch at all, but made it all new according to the material I had, so one can pretty safely say, that this is how the guy I looked at was proportioned.

Please don't make me scan just to see how far off I am :P
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on July 24, 2008, 06:08:50 pm
sorry, that was my bad looking though the names.  I did mean your edit.

While it may be based solidly in anatomy books and charts, these vary greatly, many of them are poorly done, and in a studio full of say 30 people from 18 to 48, I don't need a ruler to see that, according to your head counts, the knee is too high in the black and the butt is too low in the yellow :).

Interestingly enough, your sketch (when i fit it all on one screen, rather than scrolling by halves like I was), actually places the butt nicely, because you haven't measured the heads equally :P.  So the message here is to trust your eyes and hands more than your books, because the books here would have been off ^^.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: miascugh on July 24, 2008, 07:36:21 pm
(Reference, while from a book on anatomy, was a photo of a - very well-trained ;) - average guy, though, no chart involved)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on July 25, 2008, 07:02:03 am
Well, I don't have that photograph so I can't deny it, but most humans are equal from the top of the knee to the hip as they are the top of the knee to the heel.  Perspective and anomalies can change this, photo-references are actually trash for charts becuse there's so much to go wrong - so i'll tell you what i've been told several times here - if you're making a chart reference and selling it as a learning guide, best to make it properly measured and representative of the average man.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: TrevoriuS on July 25, 2008, 03:12:41 pm
I'll post some of my own studies later perhaps, though I'd like this to be removed from the starting post:
Prehistoric anatomy: http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/diagrams/muscularsystem.jpg , there's a picture of the skeletal view from the same author - both don't match, and both are wrong ><).
Overdrivern anatomy: http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/diagrams/muscles.jpg (possibly good for some muscle names, and attachment points).
Made up spine: http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/skeletons/Skeleton-Side.jpg (9 Cervical, neck, vertebrae? devision in my book's still 5/12/7).
Cubic thorax: http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/skeletons/human_skeleton.jpg

And ndchristie -> 'hip' is a broad area. I assume you mean the top edge, no?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: chriskot on July 27, 2008, 05:41:48 am
Wow. I just realized how rarely I actually draw things from life. It's like I go months without actually drawing anything that exists in reality... Gotta change that.

Okay. So I tried doing a few quick pencil sketches of my left hand a little while ago, maybe about 5-15 minutes for each.

(apologies for terrible quality- my scanner wasn't working so I had to use my webcam)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i220/chriskot/Hands2.png)

I can tell just by looking at it that my palm is too small in the last one. Did I mess anything else up? I don't really know any of the anatomy rules for hands.

well i found some of my grandfathers ink pens, so i thought i'd try them out on a new anatomy sketch.
I'm not sure if anyone's pointed it out yet, but one thing that keeps catching my attention is that the feet on your people seem to consistently be a little on the small side. I think that the length of a foot is supposed to be roughly half of the distance from an ankle to the bottom of the knee, or something like that. Yours look to be closer to a third of the distance in most cases.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on July 30, 2008, 01:05:41 am
Hogarth says the length of the foot is equivalent to the length of the forearm. It checks out alright on me.  :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: TrevoriuS on July 31, 2008, 11:28:41 pm
You'd have to remove the.. <insert correct word here> expanded masses at the end,the places where muscles attach and where you can recognize the bone from the outside of the body - such as the ankle, elbow and wrist.
Well back to my point, if you remove these, and keep only the piece of (more) constant thickness, you would have the length of the foot. Put your big toe against your wrist, you'll see your heel is far from your elbow. Note that my feet are average (at least out here in the Netherlands) :P So perhaps Hogarth's as well as your, feet are large :P
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: big brother on August 27, 2008, 10:17:03 pm
In case you haven't seen this already, I'd recommend checking this out:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/334333/Constructive-Anatomy
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ter-o on August 27, 2008, 10:48:00 pm
In case you haven't seen this already, I'd recommend checking this out:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/334333/Constructive-Anatomy

I have that book and I gotta admit that it was too cumbersome for a newbie like myself. I first need to learn how to construct the basic proportions and masses of the hand (or any other anatomy) in different postures and after that I might be able to practise all the constructive anatomy beneath the surface.

Andrew Loomis said nicely that "If the artist looks for the big planes, the big lights and shadows, the big values and relationships, he will do a better job. One can easily get lost in a lot of little truths without seeing the big ones."

Thus I can't recommend that book for someone who's new to anatomy but it's worth while for more advanced artists.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Krut on August 28, 2008, 09:33:38 am
Ah!, this is great, ill be sure to post here once im out of my tight schedule, i've been meaning to get out of my comfort zone, and go a bit more realistic anatomically speaking.

I know its a bit of a stretch here, but taking in account the recent changes here...is it possible that in a near future, a section dedicated to traditional drawing is created? Sure, there are other places already dedicated to that...but dunno, this feels like "home" in the art department, you kno?
I know, i know, pixelation is dedicated to pixels, heh, but... hell, if i can get out of my comfort zone (try to at least), why cant pixelation?  :lol:

Cheers!  ;)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on August 28, 2008, 01:30:46 pm
Krut, I was thinking about that too. Probably it would diffuse the focus of Pixelation a bit and that's not exactly good. We don't want separate cultures from the pixel art board and the 'traditional art' whatever theoretical board. This happens a lot to big forums, there's people there and people here and they don't mix too much. Everything must come down to pixel art for this place to survive. We have the OT creativity threads if you want to post non pixel art and if you explicitly ask for critique you will get it from the keen eyes we have around. I've used it a lot, it works!

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on September 05, 2008, 03:46:14 pm
This is a great thread idea! Here's something I've been fiddling around with for an hour or so. It's a re-approach of an old piece (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/omg_ne.jpg) I did in opencanvas a while ago;

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/mr_cumbersome_2_3.png)

I feel like I'm getting a lot closer to how a face is actually structured, but I'm sure it's still off   ::)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: TomF on September 05, 2008, 04:04:26 pm
Well it's miles better than the old piece, but something about the mouth really bothers me.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dokozai on September 11, 2008, 02:00:10 am
(http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/8516/anatomypracticeql9.png)

Not fleshed out, I'd like help with the basics.

Arm length, leg length, the works!
 :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 11, 2008, 10:18:27 am
let's look at the chart:

(http://pixelheart.net/anatomy/diagrams/helmchart.png)

Use your own judgment? Are the legs in good relative size to the torso? How about the head to the overal height? Look in relation, look good, make internal connections about ratios between lengths of body parts. Then draw again. Repeat every day. Eventually you'll get the hang of it.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: xdjkittiex on September 15, 2008, 03:33:29 am
The images are two assignments that I did for school last week.

Arm Skeletal & Muscle
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/XdjkittieX/W3A1.jpg)

Leg Skeletal & Muscle
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/XdjkittieX/W3A2.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on September 15, 2008, 08:19:05 pm
 :P The hand is backwards.

Also you're missing some of the bones in the palm in the skeleton view as well as the foot.

I mean, it looks nice so I'll have to nitpick. What grade did you get?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dusty on September 15, 2008, 08:32:48 pm
:P The hand is backwards.
I don't think so. Looks like he has the hand turned thumb-out.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on September 16, 2008, 04:31:55 pm
:P The hand is backwards.
I don't think so. Looks like he has the hand turned thumb-out.
Aye, the hand looks correct to me.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on September 16, 2008, 10:35:33 pm
It looked like a tricep to me XD

But upon further research it is not.  :-[
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: xdjkittiex on September 16, 2008, 11:36:51 pm
Atnas -

Like Dusty and Eyecraft said, the palms are facing the viewer with thumbs out.
I hadn't realized it but I did get a little lazy with the smaller bones in the foot and the wrist / palm in the skeletal examples.  :-[
(I think I got away with that because we're doing foot and hand skeletal & muscle sketches this week)
I got an A on each.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on September 17, 2008, 12:39:31 am
Yeah I knew about the hand's position, the direction the arm was facing just confused me. It's good work!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 21, 2008, 09:43:04 am
Center of gravity. She's leaning. Never draw an incomplete figure on a limited canvas. The actual anatomy doesn't suffer so much as body language and posture does, the fundamentals.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 21, 2008, 02:59:58 pm
Definitely. I suggest this method: draw a series of thumbnails. Literally, as big as thumb little sketches. These are great for capturing vitality. Then blow up the best thumbnail to about a4 size and overdraw (just put another paper on top, or do it digitally,whatever you want) pulling together the thumbnail, getting good anatomy in there on that level. This is how most pro illustrators work.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: khorin on September 21, 2008, 11:16:38 pm
I've been drawing from Sara Simblet's "Anatomy for the Artist". Here's one of them turned into a digital piece:
(http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs37/300W/f/2008/258/2/1/21959f28d17eb13342bd296c195eed42.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 22, 2008, 09:16:23 am
Try it and see. Just rough doodle. If a construction works, it will work at this size.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 29, 2008, 04:12:37 am
Yes this is a great first step. Now it depends on which one you choose to work more on.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 29, 2008, 06:12:37 am
well I can't parse the pointing at the skies body language, emotionally. What does it mean? Who does this? The pose is not connected with something actual for me and therefore I can't really suggest those poses. If you care to explain what you're going for perhaps I'll see it.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 29, 2008, 06:32:21 am
The backstory's all well and good but your concern is how much of this communicates - or can communicate - in a single picture. I couldn't tell she was pointing as a specific thing in the sky until you pointed it out to me just now so yes, definitely go with the difficult pose (the top left one) where we can at least see the Aurora. Make the hand point to IT with foreshortening and not directly above (where there is nothing) and if at anything attempt a more 3/4 look with the girl on the side of the image so we may see a bit more of her than her back while she points.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 29, 2008, 07:50:21 am
Well you can communicate that the character is surprised by an environmental effect that occurs and is pointing towards it in amazement. That's I think, pretty fair.

(http://www.locustleaves.com/xeladoshelp.png)

Does this help? The little graph next to the picture shows how the points of interest are placed in the plane, and bigger is more important. A pleasing construction on this level will help the picture later on much.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on September 29, 2008, 08:34:09 am
Well first of all this is much better than before as it is. Yes, pull the whole scene down and have more space than ground. Space is alright being empty because that's what... space... is. The pose is quite alright. It won't be an easy thing to draw, but you certainly can do it. Keep in mind this: When you're done with something and finally finished with it, it stands on its own merit and almost always that merit is something you could never believe would be there when you're doing an early sketch like this. Stuff... happens, when you draw a while thing like this and you'll be pleasantly surprised with yourself if you go along with it.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Akira on September 29, 2008, 08:47:42 am
Do you point at things when you're alone? Pointing is used to convey information to another person. I'd suggest you change the gesture to one of surprise. Then emphasize the aurora to show that it is the cause of the surprise.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: JJ Naas on September 29, 2008, 08:55:09 am
IMO you can have trees, bushes and stuff on the edges of the picture to help frame the scene, but the problem with the tree on top of the highest point of the hill we can see is that it makes the pic unbalanced, too many heavy elements on the right side of the picture. I think you have too many elements here as well. This is clearly an atmosperic pic, so get rid of all the elements that are not necessary for the picture. If you want to have buildings in the pic, you don't need to show every detail of the buildings, just specs of light in the windows or the roof. The mountain in the distance wouldn't have any details visible either, just the outlines. The campfire may be too much as well.

Were you considering the golden ration when composing the picture?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: JJ Naas on September 29, 2008, 11:05:15 am
Well, here's my take on the scene. This one's not about the anatomy but the general composition of the image. The tree's still there, sort of framing the image on the right side plus there are some bushes on the left side for framing as well. I moved the tallest mountain to the left to counterbalance the heaviness of the right side. The attention is on the sky, so I brought the horizon down more. The buildings are only hinted.

(http://ungroup.net/jjntemp/digikuvia/xel.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jad on September 29, 2008, 08:51:11 pm
I don't know what the golden ration is. I just threw things together that I thought might make sense or look good. I'm really only used to drawing figures/humans. Landscapes, wildlife, and buildings confuse me. I don't know where to begin or how to do them. I've even screwed around with point-based perspective and nothing's ever come out looking good. This is ending up like every other drawing idea I've gotten.. starts out cool and somewhat exciting, then as soon as my pencil or stylus hits the page/tablet it all goes to hell.

[edit] I am thankful for the help I've received.. I don't want anyone to think I'm being ungrateful. It's just a matter of personal disappointment. I guess I'll try my hand at it again later today.

Actually, with the amount of verbal disappointment of yourself that you often drench your posts in, I actually thought you were all enormous amounts of talk about stuffs and no skill. :O

So srsly, that's obviously not the case at all, since your skills are actually good. It's really that disappointment in yourself that hinders you from actually completing your images. Actually, if you just took the first sketch with the sitting girl and tried to flesh it out a bit, that'd be good enough. And now you're actually improving on that, that's even better! So just hang in there, guy :D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: tocky on September 29, 2008, 11:47:31 pm
This is essentially the reason why JJ Naas's composition works, I think:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/xelados-jj-swirly.gif)
Big ol' swirly line.
Generally, people start from the top, find something that goes somewhere, and follow it. If that's a clear path that leads past all the focal points, and lands somewhere interesting, that's about the best you could hope for. There's more to the edit than just that, but this is a really useful trick, and it's dead simple, so I figure I should mention it.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Argyle on September 30, 2008, 10:53:29 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/argylesock/lifedrawing2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/argylesock/lifedrawing1.jpg)

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:AB_YItbQD4EAbM:http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestselling-comics-2007/26-1.jpg)
These are scans from a page of Richard Williams' The Animator's Survival Kit (http://www.amazon.com/Animators-Survival-Kit-Richard-Williams/dp/0571202284) (by the director of animation of Who Framed Roger Rabbit), a book which I cannot recommend to enough people.  A while back I was ambitious about getting better in my drawings enough to go to the local college's life drawing sit-ins to draw nude models.  Although I only got a chance to go about 2 or 3 times, the studies drastically improved my knowledge of how a body should look and understanding what separates a drawing of a character from looking like a hunk of ridiculous ground meat shaped like a stick figure.

Drawing from picture references helps out a ton in the understanding of anatomy.  But drawing a model in person with time restrictions for poses ranging between 5 and 20 minutes is invaluably helpful in getting your mind trained to cut to the core of defining a body's truly defining shapes and restrictions without becoming overburdened with spending 20 minutes making sure the eyes look nice and pretty on your picture while the rest of the head looks like a melon.

Anyone seeking to pursue a study of drawing human anatomy should seriously consider looking up life drawing sessions that are hosted in your area.  I plan to look into going back and doing more of this regularly for a couple years in the future (after life settles down... moving in a week and our first baby due at the ending of October :crazy:).  This thread was just the driving inspiration that reminded me of this goal.


If the recent flood we had didn't destroy my old huge sketch pad I'll look into snapping some photos of the sketches from the sessions later on tonight.  I have not done much studying of anatomy in the 5 or so years since I did them so some critiques should still help me learn more  :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on October 03, 2008, 10:44:25 am
You're showing steady improvement with setting this up. Is there a point to finish it? Absolutely.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jad on October 03, 2008, 01:04:34 pm

That all sounds good, I guess, but I doubt I can pull it off. There's a lot I don't know.. how land forms near mountains, how to create a believable set of rooftops and trees, how to mimic the look of an aurora, the texture of the moon, etc.

Yeah, and if you ever want to learn how to do these, this is the time! It's not like you knew how to draw humans when you first held a pen anyway, but now you can -  this is obvious, but easy to forget.

So just keep going!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on October 03, 2008, 05:32:33 pm
If the camera is close to the ground, we're metaphorically 'sitting there' with the girl, more engaged. If it's high it's as if we're a traveller that happened on her on a trail. If it's high in the air, we're an overlord god. Take your pick, emotionally.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on October 12, 2008, 02:20:14 pm
I don't really have anything to offer in terms of which media, anything's good. Yes the newest version is the best. The campfire flame, lose it. Just have some embers, perhaps a liiitle flame. Let the night sky do the talking.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Willows on November 04, 2008, 09:50:12 am
Willows chucks some phoenix down!

OneMinuteGestures:

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/1min_003.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/1min_005.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/1min_006.jpg)

Foot studies "The Burne Hogarth way":

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Foots_004.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Foots_005.jpg)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Foots_008.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Foots_010.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Foots_003.jpg

Hands copied outta Dynamic Figure Drawing (Apparently copying is a good way to learn. News to me!)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Hands_001.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Hands_002.jpg)

I'm quite proud of those gestures. I still get yelled at (with reason) for not getting the hands in there sometimes, but on the whole I'm getting the pose rather well more often than not. Proportions take a severe beating at times, as seen very clearly in the spear one. Ahh well. More practice I guess.

Feet studies are an accumulation of work over the last two days. Kept some of the really crappy ones visible to show that I still get it wrong more often than not, but meh. I'm starting to wrap my fingers around how to put force into things, an' it feels gooood.

C&C is welcome, no matter how harsh.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dokozai on November 05, 2008, 10:04:41 pm
Good Job!

I don't know if you'll be interested, but you should try this: http://www.posemaniacs.com/?pagename=thirtysecond
Work from 60 seconds, or just start at 30, 15, or 10!

I had much fun doing mine!
 :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on November 09, 2008, 11:18:02 pm
I'd also put the fireplace into sloped perspective
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on December 07, 2008, 07:00:16 am


Okay, here's something awful. Help would be appreciated. :-* I still need to work bigger (the face was a pain at such a tiny size, hence the awfulness (hopefully a legitimate excuse)). No references, I'm trying to end my complete reliance on references because I realised that I was very lacking in other aspects. Plus I want to make comics. :U

Also this thread is a goldmine, fantastic advice abound. I've learned some new things. :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: TrevoriuS on December 07, 2008, 01:34:42 pm
Arms are unrealistically tight with the body. Legs are too long. Shorten the upperleg so that the fingertips touch the top of the knee, and scale the lowerleg accordingly. Make sure your feet fit about 1.5 times into the lower leg. Note that knowing proportions won't do. Whatever you draw, I actually recommend to find some sort of reference to get your perspective right. I tend to be able to draw a pose from a certain angle from my mind only if I drew it from life once, I don't know how this is for other people, but basically I'd have to draw every possible limb from every possible angle at least once to be able to draw anything without reference correctly.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Sherman Gill on December 07, 2008, 06:35:56 pm
(our) left arm is too long. Head looks small, but I measured it and it's pretty on target...
Both arms might actually be too long, with how they're bent, actually.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 07, 2008, 09:13:13 pm
hey cow what you have is a good start- ladies are hard to draw and i'm not very good at them so take what you want from this :P
The torso is usually about 3 heads tall- from the pit of the neck to the end of the sternum- from the end of the sternum to the belly button- and from that to the pubilacularous ( making up words is fun : D) area. Your arms were close to being right for the most part- I haven't seen anybody's arms that don't follow this: that the forearm length ( bone) is 5/6 the size of the humerus, sometimes this can be hard to judge with all the muscular mass on the arm.
I also put her into what I thought to be a more graceful pose, the weight-bearing leg is under the center of gravity and the other one is just having fun.
I also gave her long dark hair because thats my type :3
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/smelltheglove.jpg)
hope this helps a bit :]
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on December 08, 2008, 12:23:57 am
Thank you all for your crits. :)

Quote
Arms are unrealistically tight with the body. Legs are too long. Shorten the upperleg so that the fingertips touch the top of the knee, and scale the lowerleg accordingly. Make sure your feet fit about 1.5 times into the lower leg.
I agree with you on the arms. The legs seem fine to me, four heads to the crotch region... I'm not sure where the fingertips touching top of the knee comes from, my body and a few charts I posthumously consulted seem to contradict that. Feet are an issue with me, as I can't reference my own body because my feet are essentially as long as my forearm and I'm reluctant to believe that's the norm, thanks for the proportional guideline.

Quote
Note that knowing proportions won't do. Whatever you draw, I actually recommend to find some sort of reference to get your perspective right. I tend to be able to draw a pose from a certain angle from my mind only if I drew it from life once, I don't know how this is for other people, but basically I'd have to draw every possible limb from every possible angle at least once to be able to draw anything without reference correctly.
For the past couple months I've felt a sort of artistic stagnation which I believe has a direct correlation with my dependency on references. I can draw from life and from photos well enough for my purposes (for now) but when it comes to imagination/creation rather than reproduction/interpretation I feel my art is lagging significantly. So now is my attempt to remedy this by confronting my deficiencies as an artist, even if it means 'regressing', or rather, abandoning my comfort zone in order to learn new things.

Yeah, sorry for the little monologue. Once I have a firmer grasp of proportion and shapes and overall construction I think I'll be set...

Quote
Both arms might actually be too long, with how they're bent, actually.
Yes, I agree. My application of proportions in general is far two two-dimensional, I need to work on some foreshortening I think.

Quote
Ryu's post
Thank you very much for the edit. What you did with the arms and shoulders is very good. I will make some more things soon with your advice in mind. I'll be trying to make some more dynamic stuff soon also.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 08, 2008, 02:16:03 am
It's funny that you say that- the proportion rule IS that your foot is essentially the length of your forearm :] Might be a tad smaller for ladies - or maybe not.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on December 08, 2008, 09:50:14 am
Cow, it's very good to see you do what you are doing. As it was said, the arms are too long, though not to say that there aren't women with as long arms, but they're certainly exceptions. Also, the shoulders are a bit invented in that you'll need to study how the muscles and tendons work a bit under the skin there to realize what you're doing wrong.

Ryu, have you been instructed to not count the neck in the first 'head' from chin to sternum? The graph I always reference from (taped on my wall) counts it in and it seems pretty accurate for what it is.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 09, 2008, 12:01:06 am
Burne Hogarth teaches that the neck is about 3/4ths a head long- but i've found that to be a bit to long for anything other than his muscly creations. But mine( as in my very own physical neck :P) is clearly about half a head and is separate from the first head of the torso- although that might just be me and/ or not apply to ladies that much.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on December 09, 2008, 04:12:51 am
Burne Hogarth is a blight on young artists everywhere, the sooner you abandon everything he says the better.

I draw long necks because ah likes 'em, but in "perfect" posture the crest of the shoulders is half a head and slopes up slightly to the neck.  Most people tend to hunch forwards with their head tilted up to correct, which means that from many angles the neck is a quarter or less to the chin.

Ryu's girl is very tall but somehow works.  that's another funny thing about proportions is that you can work it if you want to :P.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 09, 2008, 04:26:19 am
Yeh yeh, and Schmid is a bad painter :3
I think you can learn a bit from anybody- while Hogarth generalizes things too much  and is bound to that almost super humanish look, the proportions he teaches are for the most part " correct" ( for lack of better term- there's no such thing as " correct" proportions kiddies) and his diagrams of putting the figure into space and perspective have helped me at least.

Yeah I think sometimes for me drawing a figure from imagination is a hit or a miss :P

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on December 09, 2008, 12:56:25 pm
Hogarth and Schmid both teach a lot of terrible practices to artists too young to know better.  Your studies I think are a prime example of a guy who has begun to see the world for himself but you're definitely still shaking off the taint of copy-studies and how-to-draw type practice.  Hogarth poses no threat to most twenty-year-olds, but most twelve-year-olds don't yet know how to study and they form habits that are hard to unlearn.  Schmidt teaches kitsch to old women using words like dilly-dally and is also not a threat unless he's taken too seriously.

The fact remains though that neither artist is a proper teacher for anyone with aspirations.  Few if any artists are.  They offer two of many points of view which should be considered as a terribly small part of a larger picture and both preach technique over philosophy which I can't stand.

But you knew that was coming the moment you wrote a post starting with "burne hogarth teaches..." :P

Another anecdote : I sat in on a class the other day on my lunch break where a professor was teaching kids to stretch from the corners in, because he thinks that it's easier and feels better.  Now, the case has been made before for this method in a lot of ways, the greatest majority of them concerning artists who white-knuckle the first pinnings (a major no-no!) but in general I tend to side with the conservators that I've met who all tell me that paintings stretched from the corners are far sooner lost to time.  Regardless, there are now twenty kids walking around parsons who, because they have never stretched canvas before, are now going to do it from the corners in who, if they are still doing so in fifty years, will probably find all their old paintings to have given out.  It's just another example of good guys giving bad advice.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Willows on December 09, 2008, 08:16:23 pm
I'm inclined to believe that there ain't no right way, and that every artist will think their current mindset is the only way to do things. Me, I've been brainwashed by my education to believe that art should be produced with the robot juice of a thousand factories, not the sparkling, imaginitive fairy dust of the casual painter. And I love it. I get "instructed" "Don't fail the mission!" and "Don't think, just DO" and other awesome things, and though I don't really agree with that kind of a mindset, when I'm not starving and sleep-deprived I'm laughing my ass off about how silly the whole thing is.

But hey, I'm learning, and at this stage there's so dang much for me to learn I'll worry about whether or not something doesn't suit my fancy later. Thinking that I might possibly be learning bad habits (undoubtedly true) just makes me afraid to learn, and according to someone practically everything is a bad habit.

Also I'm somewhat curious what 'zactly these bad habits are. I've done a bit of Hogarthing in the past, and if there's anything I learned that I probably should watch out for, it'd be coo to know. I do much 'ppreciate you voicing your opinion though, andchristariuse :D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 09, 2008, 08:28:04 pm
Well Nate anybody who stretches canvases corners in is just lamesauce :p Maybe Parsons should add stretching a canvas to their admissions requirement?
I know this is off topic from anatomy- we could call it canvas anatomy maybe?- but white knuckling the first pinnings is a no no? My teacher taught me to do centers of top, then bottom, left then right, and if my hands don't ache from the stretch I put on the canvas it always turns out too loose to be used for anything more than drapery.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on December 09, 2008, 09:30:36 pm
Well Nate anybody who stretches canvases corners in is just lamesauce :p Maybe Parsons should add stretching a canvas to their admissions requirement?
I know this is off topic from anatomy- we could call it canvas anatomy maybe?- but white knuckling the first pinnings is a no no? My teacher taught me to do centers of top, then bottom, left then right, and if my hands don't ache from the stretch I put on the canvas it always turns out too loose to be used for anything more than drapery.

At risk of prescription, the first first set should be a hair shy of full-strength because, so I am told, because this gives just enough give to allow the rest to be pulled uniformally and not bow the center of the bars without sacrificing spring or tightness (which will come from the - at very first nonexistant - lateral pull across the bar rather than vertical pull across the gap.

Back to anatomy, there is comfort in robotness, but too much comfort leads to a person being fat and lazy and unaccomplished.  Living art by the rules is no more and no less valuable than being obese.  I would not suggest the other extreme either - to only do your own thing or worse  to not do anything leads to a person starving and dying.  The best artists are somewhere between lean and curvy :).

For some general critique  willows your guys are going to have some bawlin feet.  for a selfproclaimed robot person, they are nicely personalized without going too far into abstraction.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Zach on December 14, 2008, 11:01:43 pm
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/artfocker/1101081648.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/artfocker/1101081650.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/artfocker/1101081649.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/artfocker/1101081647.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/artfocker/0929081935_0001.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on January 05, 2009, 12:36:50 am
(http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/sktch3.jpg)
I figure if the muscles are big enough I'll learn what they are.  ;)

I was hoping someone could do a paintover or verbal critique so I could focus on the areas I'm getting wrong? I've been bullshitting the chest for a while and because of my resolution to sketch every day I've noticed anything I ever knew about anatomy I've forgot. Sorry for the bad economy and symmetry (lolpenis)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jubatian on February 04, 2009, 10:03:50 pm
Well, i know this thread focuses on human anatomy, but anyways, hope i can have some comments on this piece:
(http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Jubatian/menu.jpg)
This is the background of the menu system on my experimental web page. I know the nose is a little long, but otherwise the front of the body finally looks properly built for me (this is the first time i say this on any of my work). The feet of him reach below the bottom end of the image by at about 50 pixels and he is sitting. No references used. Feel free to rip it apart, i think i need to learn from somewhere :P
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ptoing on February 05, 2009, 12:49:59 am
When I see Hogarth's stuff I always have to think of Silver Surver involuntarily. Dunno if that says anything about his art.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: NaCl on February 26, 2009, 11:16:51 am
Drawing the human figure is so hard it makes me sad...  The thing is, and maybe someone can clarify or help me here, but I see a divide between an accomplished artist, and myself. If I watch them work, the drawing kind of flows out, and when I draw it is like every line I draw is wrong, and I have to go back and erase, then redraw it again and again until it looks OK. Right now I am feeling that bridging this divide simply comes from drawing people over and over and over and memorizing how things look in different positions, and then just putting out something that you have much practice at. However, I also feel that there is some other element that I am missing, because it seems improbable to simply have every body part memorized for any position you decide to draw

Anyway, here is one attempt at a female body and a couple faces.



Thanks for any guidance!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on February 26, 2009, 08:07:50 pm
It looks like you have a very 2d thought process going on. You draw the outlines but do not shade. These artists that you see the work flow out of probably build their figure studies out of light and shadow rather than try and do a contour drawing every time. You don't need to memorize much if you visualize it in 3d. A lot of it is confidence, too. I remember earlier in this thread, Helm told me to stop scribbling, and it really helped. (at least in pencil drawings, I don't draw enough on my tablet to be used to the medium) If every line is a purposeful one time thing everything will flow. Don't worry if you get it wrong, there's always a next time. c:

It seems like you understand a great deal about anatomy itself, however the problem you are facing is the execution.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: deziresoft on February 28, 2009, 08:54:42 am
It looks like you have a very 2d thought process going on. You draw the outlines but do not shade. These artists that you see the work flow out of probably build their figure studies out of light and shadow rather than try and do a contour drawing every time. You don't need to memorize much if you visualize it in 3d. A lot of it is confidence, too. I remember earlier in this thread, Helm told me to stop scribbling, and it really helped. (at least in pencil drawings, I don't draw enough on my tablet to be used to the medium) If every line is a purposeful one time thing everything will flow. Don't worry if you get it wrong, there's always a next time. c:

It seems like you understand a great deal about anatomy itself, however the problem you are facing is the execution.
Amen to that.

I'm not exactly the best artist, but I do build off of light and shadow.  At last, I'm only 14, so, not much I can explain, since I've been only working with pixels for about 2 yrs, and hand drawings for at least 3, not caring where, or where not to start from, until quite recently.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: boojiboy on March 01, 2009, 01:21:47 pm
I gotta start taking advantage of this thread.
Here's something I just did for about 20 minutes or so.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/3318419537_042b168fa7_o.jpg)
Problems that I have (at least ones that I know I have difficultydoing):
I'm completely lost when drawing legs. Joining the pelvis to the thighs I find extremely hard and I throw dimensions out the window when I go below the knees.
I also can't draw feet. I am terrible at foreshortening (probably why I can't draw feet) and I also have trouble joining hands to wrists.
Can anyone show me the volumes of the areas where I clearly don't have an idea about (eg. Legs, Forearms)?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on March 02, 2009, 06:47:03 am
Here's a bit of play that sort of freaks me out:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2009_03_02_milton_00.jpg)

Trying to work on clearer lines, confident strokes. Succeeded a very little bit. Primarily a head study, but see I need to review torso. The ear is a problem; alot of ambiguity around that area.

Fun though!

@boojiboy: collarbone looks too flat/straight to me, making trapezoidal muscle look GIGANTIC. Also throwing off connection area around scapula/trapezoidal/deltoids/clavicle. Basically feels like shoulders need to come up a little bit. Or chest down. Honestly I'm not 100% sure. Pelvis is big issue, as you mention, I would really go over study of that section of the skeleton and how/where the muscles attach.

EDIT: Some posemaniacs sketches. Much more confidence with these!

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2009_03_02_pm_00.jpg) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2009_03_02_pm_01.jpg) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2009_03_02_pm_02.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Doppleganger on March 02, 2009, 04:40:29 pm
Those are some nice poses Eyecraft. The head seems a bit off, maybe like it's missing bits from the top? Or the chin is possibly not large enough, or the lips are too low. I can't really say for sure.

I ordered Anatomy and Perspective for the artist (after hunting down an old thread of mine where it was mentioned), so I plan to be posting in here once I get. A steady dose of anatomy sketches is something I'm in need of.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: huZba on March 03, 2009, 06:42:18 pm
I haven't finished anything in a long while, just sketching a bit of something before going to bed every day. Personally i think these are too constructed and i feel claustrophobic looking at them now, but I've been keeping my drawings to myself for too long now so better get some exposure.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/huzba/sketchies1.jpg)

@EyeCraft: It's a scary guy but it doesn't look constrained at all so i like it. To say something helpful uhh... well, just do more :P
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on March 03, 2009, 08:01:32 pm
Hm yes perhaps too constructed but well that's not something easy to shake off. If anything I see a lot of blank expressions and few 'open-mouth' ones. I would suggest every time you draw a face before you start, think of a nuanced emotion you'd like to convey. Even if it's impossible to coney to the viewer just by a portrait ("well of course she's irritated because her cat pooped on the sofa, what else could she be with that face?!") you'd know if you failed or not. You seem to have face construction down fine enough to start telling emotional stories so why bother doing a full page of disembodied blank faces, you know?

If you want morphological advice, you seem to draw one type of lips almost exclusively, with some variable upper lip size from men to women. I'd try a few different things there. Also why not attempt a few less 'pleasant' faces, you know? Draw ugly people, but try to hit that place where they're ugly but look real, not like some grotesque judgment.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on March 04, 2009, 07:38:58 am
huZba, you ever see this faces tutorial over at conceptart.org?
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84105

I haven't got the construction of heads seared into my subconscious just yet, so I'm not quite ready for it, but you look like you've got a pretty good grasp of things and might find it an interesting approach.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: tocky on March 04, 2009, 02:48:17 pm
i'm not really sure what i've done, here:
newer <>older
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/grafxgirl5.gif)(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/tocky/grafxgirl3.gif)
I got the reductionist disease... I think she's closer to real proportions in the one on the left, but it looks wrong to me.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on March 05, 2009, 04:43:12 am
Tocky, I'd suggest being more stringent with your construction. Your loose markers gradually get larger. Also consider curvature of spine; ribcage and pelvis are tilted at different angles:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/edits/gfxchick_ed_00.png)

Um, this is kind of a weird edit, and I don't have a tonne of confidence in it, but:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/edits/gfxchick_ed_01.png) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/edits/gfxchick_ed_02.png)

Mainly shoulder area (bit exaggerated). I also tried to give some example planes but they're not... fantastic...
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: huZba on March 12, 2009, 07:50:39 pm
Thanks for the push Helm and Crab2! I've really enjoyed drawing for the past few days.
This came out of a scribble like those in the conceptart.org thread.
Might not be that much better but at least I didn't feel like i was inserting facial features on a mr potato head like the previous ones.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/huzba/mr_western_guy.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/huzba/mr_indian_guy.jpg)

I'll post some more once i pick them up from the messes  :crazy:
-edit- indian joins the party
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on March 13, 2009, 04:56:00 am
Hmm, yeah. I would recommend having a look over some faces in profile, and especially skulls, and really look at the curves and protrusion of the mouth and nose. They stick RIGHT out. Importantly, the mouth is like a kind of hemisphere sitting on the face, it really curves.

Looking at both of those, I would say the common element is extremely flat faces, with the nose and mouth too much in the centre of the drawn face.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: NaCl on March 13, 2009, 05:52:11 am
Hey HuZba, great characters. I think the cowboy looks a little Asian... I like that. Never seen an asian cowboy before. I messed with the indian man a little bit, mostly for my own benefit. Feel free to ignore this:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2rc67u0.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2009, 06:04:43 pm
I need some help in anatomy as well plus i don't draw nearly enough as I should.  I used to draw everyday but with school and game making my priorities are not set for drawing.  However I do have a picture I drew some time ago(this was my latest non pixeled drawing)  I wish I had something more to show but since this is the latest I'll be assured of not getting redundant critique.  Please please ignore the stupid thing she is doing with the wrench...I don't know what I was thinking.

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5020/lexiisexystandfinaljpegdz6.jpg)

Also I am at home a lot(my schooling is online) and I rarely get out of the house(I'm a bit of a hermit I guess)  Sucks not having a car.  Anyway I was wondering what is the best substitute for not having a live model?  Is pose maniacs really that good of a anatomy drawing aid?  I want to draw a lot more but I want to make sure if I start again that I will be on a linear track to getting better.  I'm willing to put in the work and the time but I don't want my soul crushed when I find out I've been doing everything wrong(that has happened a few times before)

Another question I have for you guys/girls is, "Is drawing fun for you?  Do you enjoy drawing?  Also where do you draw, is it at a desk, your bed(someone elses bed?) the floor, a chair, standing up, etc? 

Finally my last most important question.  Does anyone here draw in photoshop?  If so isn't it hard to get really crisp lines like you would with a pen or a pencil?  Whenever I try drawing in photoshop all of my lines are blurry.  I drew the picture above exclusively in photoshop and the only way to get the lines looking nice was to carve them using the eraser tool.  However doing that takes a large amount of extra time.  Which in turn just rips out whatever vitality the drawing used to have in it.  Anyway to sum this up "Whats the best program to do line art digitally?"
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on March 16, 2009, 10:49:22 pm
look up some andrew loomis books(there available on the web in PDF form). I've been going through his books and there's a lot of good practical info about breaking hte body down into more managable shapes and volumes that will help with the posemaniacs stuff.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: tocky on March 16, 2009, 11:21:58 pm
also: photos. posemaniacs is cool in that it lets you see stuff from a bunch of different angles, but if you want to draw natural-looking people you will learn best by comparing your stuff against real people. (I hear there are photos of naked women on the internet somewhere.) with photo reference it's pretty tempting to just copy the reference exactly, though, rather than deconstruct it.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on March 17, 2009, 08:44:12 am
Another question I have for you guys/girls is, "Is drawing fun for you?  Do you enjoy drawing?  Also where do you draw, is it at a desk, your bed(someone elses bed?) the floor, a chair, standing up, etc?
Drawing is great fun for me, provided I'm not getting frustrated/hitting walls. But I find that only happens when the direction I'm taking the piece doesn't really make sense when I think about it. I usually draw at the computer, sitting, with my tablet on my lap. If I draw on paper, it's basically the same position.

Quote
Finally my last most important question.  Does anyone here draw in photoshop?  If so isn't it hard to get really crisp lines like you would with a pen or a pencil?  Whenever I try drawing in photoshop all of my lines are blurry.  I drew the picture above exclusively in photoshop and the only way to get the lines looking nice was to carve them using the eraser tool.  However doing that takes a large amount of extra time.  Which in turn just rips out whatever vitality the drawing used to have in it.  Anyway to sum this up "Whats the best program to do line art digitally?"
I draw in photoshop. I haven't really looked at it much, but there's a tonne of options for modifying the brush's behaviour. Try playing around with the Hardness property. Also try using a very small diameter brush. I use diameter 4, but usually work pretty lightly with the tablet, so the brush is often a lot smaller. Of course, my stuff is scratchy as hell, though. Just throwing the idea out to you. You might want to check out Manga Studio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5OlhY6mxh4). (EDIT: Oh can't believe I forgot this, but you can achieve sharper lines in photoshop if you work with a larger than intended canvas size (say double size), then shrink the final image down to intended size)

Your drawing kind of disturbs me, since the girl seems to have the proportions of someone aged 10, or maybe even a little younger... except she has voluptuous breasts. I can't really nail down specific issues that lead to this impression, but I think it's to do with the body being very narrow, especially the shoulders and hips, making the head look alot bigger and nudging the proportions into the direction of `child'. I dunno, it's just the impression I get. Neck is very thin, back muscles might need a little more presence in the area between the ribcage and the arm.

also: photos. posemaniacs is cool in that it lets you see stuff from a bunch of different angles, but if you want to draw natural-looking people you will learn best by comparing your stuff against real people. (I hear there are photos of naked women on the internet somewhere.) with photo reference it's pretty tempting to just copy the reference exactly, though, rather than deconstruct it.
I followed your suggestions here and deviated away from pose maniacs. Very rewarding; here's something I just did:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/7105997-8d8.jpg)

Unforunately I did a lot of contour-following rather than analysis, but I still think the analysis that I did do paid off.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: tocky on March 17, 2009, 11:33:15 am
Eyecraft: awesome. for crit: I think maybe her knees and wrists are a bit wobbly.

I've been meaning to thank you for the edit, earlier. I haven't had much chance to revisit that picture, but I've gotten some use from your edit.

and Mike's questions:

I don't know if I draw for fun. I draw idly when I've got something I need to draw, or when I'm trying to figure something out, or when I'm avoiding doing some other kind of work. The only reason I'm any good at all is I used to draw in class all the time, when I was supposed to be doing maths or whatever. (I do not recommend this.) It is fun, kind of relaxing - but also taxing, kind of like exercise - for leisure I'd rather play a game or read a book or something.

When I draw in Photoshop, I use the pencil tool, always full opacity, have aa turned off on all the tools. If it's a larger painting sort of thing, I'll still work that way, I feel like I need a fair idea of what the brushes are doing. I don't work with more complex brushes or applied textures. If I need to adjust the opacity of stuff, I'll stick it on its own layer and set the opacity for the whole layer.

This whole setup is kind of limiting, though. I keep meaning to mess with opacity and texture and soft brushes, though I haven't had much luck with that stuff in the past.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Accident on March 21, 2009, 07:20:53 pm
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8786/79428831.png)

I always start with a sketch on paint before I go to photoshop. O:
Halp halp? o3o -lols, DK64 reference-

Yes, I used Pose Maniacs for reference, but they don't have a female pose like that. >: So. I'm afraid it may be too manly still.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2009, 01:26:36 am
Quote
Your drawing kind of disturbs me, since the girl seems to have the proportions of someone aged 10, or maybe even a little younger... except she has voluptuous breasts. I can't really nail down specific issues that lead to this impression, but I think it's to do with the body being very narrow, especially the shoulders and hips, making the head look alot bigger and nudging the proportions into the direction of `child'. I dunno, it's just the impression I get. Neck is very thin, back muscles might need a little more presence in the area between the ribcage and the arm.

Eyecraft it was not my intent to draw a young girl.  She is supposed to be at least 18 but thanks to my heavy anime influence things kinda got skewed towards a younger character.  This is why I need anatomy help.  Also thanks for your other tips, I'll try those out!

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on March 30, 2009, 04:28:45 am
Hey, I'm kind of new to this forum. I've been viewing it for quite some time but haven't registered. Well I spotted this thread, and I am pursuing anatomy. Any tips on how to better one's anatomy skills would be very helpful. I also am posting a sketch I did, requesting critique. I haven't finished the rest yet, but am wondering if I'm off to a good start. This is my first attempt to actually try and draw anatomically.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6153/anatomyr.jpg)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: SirBilly on March 30, 2009, 11:51:22 am

For me it feels right, but I'm not an expert. Is the anatomy "correct"
(http://i43.tinypic.com/1zdn1n6.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: willfaulds on March 30, 2009, 12:49:19 pm
Difficult say on such a stylized piece BUT I think I have 2 slight issues.

His legs don't appear to connect to the torso in the same place and they don't bend in the same place.

The arms don't suffer from either of these crits in my opinion as the upper torso appears rotated and the placement of the arm's attachments fits this. Also they are both equally bendy (His left leg has a slightly too sharp bend in my mind)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: KuroRyuzaki on April 12, 2009, 11:53:54 pm
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8496/anatomypratice.jpg)


1st try ever =] iv started drawing a bit but this is like the biggest thing iv ever done. any info D:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dr D on April 13, 2009, 01:35:55 am
I'm no expert on anatomy, but I do see some issues. Some of the proportions and appearances of body parts don't resemble the same part on the opposite side of the body. The shoulder, for instance is a good example. I don't think you should mirror the sides completely, as things tend to be slightly different, even with such a static pose with a full frontal view. But, if you can draw one side of the body decently, you should probably be able to draw the other side similarly, and decently as well.

Also, not sure what's going on in the stomach/abs area.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on April 13, 2009, 01:51:46 am
Really check out the pectoral muscles and see how they connect. Your pecs are kind of bubbly and overflowing, where they should be firmer and defined. For example, the top of hte pecs connect to the clavicle and in the centers join to the sternum. You have a line near the top of your pecs which seems like it could be hinting at the clavicle, but it looks sort of randomly placed. Andrew Loomis book are a great  and free reference if you are interested. I've found them a wonderful resource. Start with Fun with a pencil and don't just skip through the first part about circles looking for the detailed reference pics.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on April 15, 2009, 07:13:45 am
@KuroRyuzaki: I think you need to undergo a study of the skeleton. Knowledge of the skeleton and where/how muscles connect to it is important in understanding the form of the muscles. The pectorals, as mentioned, need to connect with the clavicle, ribcage (at specific points, for instance yours are going over the sternum) and humerus. Deltoids attach to scapula, clavicle and humerus at specific points, etc. Common element is muscles extending over their points of attachment at bones. Abdomen area seem pretty much invented.

@dead_pool: I'd be very careful considering the forms you're trying to lay down. To me it seems like you're focusing a lot on the lines/contours and not as much on the 3D volume of the various areas of the body, and thats leading to some warped/wonky perspective on the form. For instance, the (our) left arm has a bulge that I guess is the pectorals sticking out, but little to suggest the arm that the muscle should be attaching to; seems like a mix of perspectives or a misunderstanding of the anatomy. The line between the breasts I guess is conveying the sternum seems very conflicted with the form suggested by the breasts and the area at the pit of the neck. Once again an apparent mix of perspectives. My suggestion is: work on the whole body at once, iterating detail, construct contours by considering form (not the other way around). Aside from that I think you're going pretty well.

@accident: hard to pin down the form; the lines are very loose. As such, difficult to critique your anatomy. Things I pick up are the chest looking somewhat concave/crushed, neck at an unnatural angle compared to shoulders (looks like its snapped backwards). Aside from that I'd just suggest working on refining your studies to make sure you properly confront areas you find difficult, and simply do more!  :)

Been a while, but I did another sketch from photo:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/7106468-d7d.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on April 15, 2009, 10:16:00 am
Good work. Try to make assured strokes for the contours of the body. Line width should represent curve and the light hitting it, don't let forms get represented just by where the scribbly shading hits a wall, assured strokes!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on April 16, 2009, 05:17:40 am
Thanks. Actually I have a lot of trouble controlling my line work with the tablet. I had a small practice session with basic primitive volumes this morning, and I found it's something I'll need to devote more attention to in order to become confident with it.

Aside from that, I tried doing a construction, and I have woeful knowledge of appendages:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2009_04_16_03_sm.jpg)

 :-[
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on April 16, 2009, 11:19:03 am
The second biggest problem is overlong arms. The constipated pose is puzzling, but not wrong. The biggest problem is the places where the pectorial meets the arm in the armpit, that whole place although not exactly invented is represented pretty sloppily. Those neck muscles on the back of the neck do not show the same way when the hand is low and when the hand is extended, look up some reference.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 17, 2009, 08:58:32 pm
My second attempt at human anatomy. Critique please. If you can, please try to ignore the bad looking hands.
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8462/anatomymalem.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on April 18, 2009, 04:22:32 pm
General proportions incorrect, a lot of stuff around pelvis off (crotch too low, pelvis too narrow); Look up Loomis or something similar for a guide on landmarks on the body and proportions.

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/anatomymalem_ed2.jpg) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/anatomymalem_ed3.jpg)

Not a great edit; I'm pretty tired and my memory is shot, but that's the best I can make at the moment  :)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 18, 2009, 05:07:13 pm
Thanks ,Eyecraft, for the great edit, criticism, and guidance. I think i have a severe problem with drawing legs  :(. I get so frustrated I want to be able to draw correct anatomy, but everything I draw is so bad. I practice all the time, but I can't see my progress. Does everyone feel like this at some point or am I alone in this?  :P
EDIT: Also, can anyone suggest any books for noobies in anatomy. I tried some pretty complex stuff I saw on a blog, and it was way to complicated for me. It was on a much more advanced level, for someone who already has a pretty solid understanding of anatomy.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dr D on April 18, 2009, 07:38:35 pm
Your anatomy is horrible? Anything I'd draw would look like garbage compared to yours. You've been doing pretty darn good. Your legs are pretty close, I'd say your arms and stomach/abs area are a bigger problem.

It's going to be hard to get things perfect, but just keep studying and practicing and you'll get there. I know there are a few books referred by the members here, but I can't find them or remember at the moment.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 19, 2009, 02:44:03 am
Thanks for your comment Dr D. I can understand your idea on my arms and torso. I think I went for too much detail and not the basic structure. I have a bad habit of that, since I've never tried to learn anatomy in my life...until now. I'm used to drawing what "feels good" which is a terrible habit I must break. I'm practicing now the "8 heads method" for proportioning things correctly and not just drawing what my horrible habits institute.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on April 19, 2009, 03:16:13 am
Thanks ,Eyecraft, for the great edit, criticism, and guidance.

You're welcome.

Quote
I think i have a severe problem with drawing legs  :(. I get so frustrated I want to be able to draw correct anatomy, but everything I draw is so bad. I practice all the time, but I can't see my progress. Does everyone feel like this at some point or am I alone in this?  :P

You've just described exactly how I feel  ;). Well not exactly, but I understand frustration brought on by the inability to nail down some area of the figure.

Quote
EDIT: Also, can anyone suggest any books for noobies in anatomy. I tried some pretty complex stuff I saw on a blog, and it was way to complicated for me. It was on a much more advanced level, for someone who already has a pretty solid understanding of anatomy.

http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/Loomis%20Figure%20Draw.pdf

from page:
http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 19, 2009, 04:43:42 am
Thanks for reference to the Andrew Loomis book. I actually already found it though, and have been reading. I've retried at constructing a male again, I think I've done better after reading some of Andrew Loomis' work. Critique once more please.
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7002/maleanatomy.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 24, 2009, 03:44:46 am
I hope double posting is ok...  :sry:. Anyways, this is another anatomy try. This time no reference used. Critique please.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6203/maleanatomy2.jpg)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ai on April 24, 2009, 10:53:38 am
Anyway I was wondering what is the best substitute for not having a live model?  Is pose maniacs really that good of a anatomy drawing aid?
Go draw 10 of their figures a day and then tell me :) Seriously.. it has helped me a lot. It's definitely true that real people have all sorts of proportional variations -- for instance I'm a tall man, but my proportions -- eg hip to shoulder measurement -- are relatively feminine.
A lot of the fun in drawing people is in these little (and sometimes big) quirks. So I recommend Posemaniacs for polishing your really rough points anatomy-wise.. and to also do some other drawing from photos of real people, and play with the proportion between these two according to how sorely you feel your basic anatomy skills to be lacking.
BTW, Posemaniacs doesn't only provide overall body refs -- they have eg. 3d scans of actual hands in various poses which can also be quite helpful.

One strong point of Posemaniacs is of course its 3d-ness. It's helped me far more in 3d construction than drawing from photos ever could (since they are 2d regardless of how a skilled photographer might mislead us to perceive otherwise.)


Quote
  I want to draw a lot more but I want to make sure if I start again that I will be on a linear track to getting better.
Oh well, start anyway. Nobody's track to getting better can ever be linear, as far as I've observed; You can only keep giving things a good try and periodically discarding things that aren't working. And it follows from this that you can only know what things are really worthwhile after getting back into the game.

Quote
  I'm willing to put in the work and the time but I don't want my soul crushed when I find out I've been doing everything wrong(that has happened a few times before)
It happens. Your current approach is quite incorrect, though it is instructive; I've found this is a very reliable truth that can be applied no matter where you are (and presumably, no matter who you are or when you are.). It's just the way life works. It's uncomfortable only in direct proportion to the magnitude of your misplaced arrogance.

Quote
Another question I have for you guys/girls is, "Is drawing fun for you?  Do you enjoy drawing?  Also where do you draw, is it at a desk, your bed(someone elses bed?) the floor, a chair, standing up, etc? 
Even when I feel burned out drawing-wise, drawing is fun for me. At such times I just push on through the frustration to find the fun,  and use a Lojban based concept generator I wrote to decide on subjects and perhaps find a spark of inspiration.
I mainly draw sitting down, but suspect standing up would be better. I prefer it when circumstances permit.

Quote
Finally my last most important question.  Does anyone here draw in photoshop?  If so isn't it hard to get really crisp lines like you would with a pen or a pencil?  Whenever I try drawing in photoshop all of my lines are blurry.  I drew the picture above exclusively in photoshop and the only way to get the lines looking nice was to carve them using the eraser tool.  However doing that takes a large amount of extra time.  Which in turn just rips out whatever vitality the drawing used to have in it.  Anyway to sum this up "Whats the best program to do line art digitally?"
I don't use photoshop, I do use GIMP... IMO the tip about the pencil tool is good and I imagine it operates pretty much identical to GIMP's pencil tool, which I also prefer over Paintbrush.
I've done plenty of sketching in GIMP and find it is not too soft, if anything too hard sometimes. It all depends on your brush settings really, like someone else said.
However, if you really want pencily-ness, consider something like MyPaint [1] or Opencanvas which actually tries to mimic real drawing media.
Both MyPaint and OC provide a pseudo-'infinite' canvas, which is great for just reeling off multiple quick sketches (as you might with PoseManiacs)


[1] I luuuuuuv this <3 Both for sketching and painting, it is powerful, approachable, and simple. (
http://mypaint.intilinux.com/)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 25, 2009, 02:36:01 am
A problem I am having is emulating a good paint like effect. I use Corel Painter X and I know its a suitable choice for this, but I think I am lacking in the necessary skills for creating this desired effect. Everything I usually render has a very paint bucket look to it, or for lack of a better explanation, MS Paint look. It doesn't have that pizazz that paintings look like. I don't want my art to have a totally "digital" look about it, but instead like an artist actually painted it. If anyone has any advice, please give it.

EDIT: I just tried Mypaint and I seem to have a problem with the brush tool. It doesn't pick up every stroke with either my pad or mouse. It has random chops throughout a stroke. Any way to fix this?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ai on April 25, 2009, 02:59:07 pm
EDIT: I just tried Mypaint and I seem to have a problem with the brush tool. It doesn't pick up every stroke with either my pad or mouse. It has random chops throughout a stroke. Any way to fix this?

mm, it's probably a bug in GTK+ on Windows, for some tablet setups on Windows, GTK+ has problems.
OTOH it could be a MyPaint bug that only shows up on Windows -- the main development platform is Linux, naturally.
possibly relevant:

https://gna.org/bugs/?12018
"This is a GTK bug. To fix this someone has to build a new Windows version of MyPaint using a fixed gtk+ version."
^^ the above sounds the most likely to me.. do the described symptoms match?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on April 25, 2009, 03:02:15 pm
Quote
A problem I am having is emulating a good paint like effect. I use Corel Painter X and I know its a suitable choice for this, but I think I am lacking in the necessary skills for creating this desired effect. Everything I usually render has a very paint bucket look to it, or for lack of a better explanation, MS Paint look. It doesn't have that pizazz that paintings look like. I don't want my art to have a totally "digital" look about it, but instead like an artist actually painted it. If anyone has any advice, please give it.

It looks like whatever you're using isn't set to track opacity based on tablet pressure. If you're using painter, try out the other brushes and play around with the settings. When I used it I liked one of the pastel brushes that I modified. But you shouldn't worry about this too much, just try for the opacity, because completely opaque strokes aren't for everyone.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 25, 2009, 03:45:08 pm
It looks like whatever you're using isn't set to track opacity based on tablet pressure. If you're using painter, try out the other brushes and play around with the settings. When I used it I liked one of the pastel brushes that I modified. But you shouldn't worry about this too much, just try for the opacity, because completely opaque strokes aren't for everyone.
Sorry for not being familiar with this term "opaque strokes." I've been messing around with with Painter's brush settings, but can't find anything I'm really satisfied with. I think part of my problem, as I said before, is I'm not really skilled in the painting area. But for now, I'm not as concerned about the painting issues, because I'm just trying to get anatomy down first.

mm, it's probably a bug in GTK+ on Windows, for some tablet setups on Windows, GTK+ has problems.
OTOH it could be a MyPaint bug that only shows up on Windows -- the main development platform is Linux, naturally.
possibly relevant:

https://gna.org/bugs/?12018
"This is a GTK bug. To fix this someone has to build a new Windows version of MyPaint using a fixed gtk+ version."
^^ the above sounds the most likely to me.. do the described symptoms match?


As far as the Mypaint issue, symptoms are the same, but no fix has been figured out for it yet.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on April 25, 2009, 04:20:29 pm
(http://www.lolipopsicle.com/linky/help/opacity.jpg)

Your brush is set to be opaque like the one on the left, while a lot of artists use ones with varying opacity like the one on the right because they simulate natural media in that the intensity is based on pressure.

Though that's based on if you have a tablet... I couldn't tell based on "It doesn't pick up every stroke with either my pad or mouse." but I assumed you had one because the lines aren't uniform in width in your last image.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 25, 2009, 04:53:53 pm
Yes I do have a tablet, and I see what you mean with opaque thing. Simply lowering the opacity will give it a more "artist's brush look"?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on April 25, 2009, 05:45:27 pm
It's not setting the brush to a lower opacity, it's turning on a setting to dynamically change the opacity based on pressure. Probably your problem is you're using an ink brush in painter, one that by default doesn't vary in its opacity. I don't have painter anymore so I can't help you...

Yes, generally even a simple round brush with opacity detection on will look more painterly, but there's also textured brushes and more abnormally shaped brushes.

On the topic of your anatomy study, the outline is well enough but a silhouette isn't everything. You'll probably find that your last one is a little cramped and serves more as a diagram rather than how a human would actually be found standing. You should try to break out of drawing that same man over and over as early as possible, because there's hardly ever a time when a figure is seen from that direct a viewpoint, and it's best not to form bad habits.

You might want to try www.posemaniacs.com for some more in depth poses. c:  if you do, don't forget to shade, as the lines aren't important, the volumes are.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on April 26, 2009, 02:17:43 am
Ok, I understand. About my anatomy; as since this is my very first try at every drawing a "correctly proportioned" figure, I am learning the body layout from a frontal view first, to know where key points lie on the figure. I'm following Andrew Loomis' book and by doing so, I'm drawing the male from front, and side views. Once I'm familiar with the skeleton and muscle structures, I'll draw more realistic poses. Thanks for the advice though.

EDIT: As for shading, this is probably my worst area. I need some real practice in shading. Any advice? I don't have a good knowledge of shading at all.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on May 01, 2009, 01:59:16 am
Well, the general thought to keep with you is that outlines simply convey boundaries of masses and shade defines the masses. Studies are usually more successful, I've found, when I disregard using lines and instead just shade the masses, any lines that result are borders from contrast and/or edge shadows, which is realistic. When drawing the human body, you have to be careful to not just draw the outline but also use light and shadow because otherwise you won't be learning the true form of the body, and the manner you perform your studies will not permit you to reach your goal in the fullest.

There's not much advice, I simply see shading as, when monochrome, marking areas of varying intensity... You just draw what you see, and that's really all there is to it. There's no rule on how much gradation or harsh shifts should be used, you simply draw what's there. Understanding it is another thing, and requires you to observe from a multitude of perspectives and go underneath what you see on the outside, understand how it influences the end product. The goal then becomes understanding the human enough to invent and modify with ease as to not to depend on reference out of necessity, otherwise one becomes nothing more than a faulty camera...
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: dead_pool on June 06, 2009, 05:39:02 am
Well I was reading Andrew Loomis' book on drawing head and hands and I decided to practice drawing heads for a while. Do these look alright?

(http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2157/headpractice.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Joe on June 07, 2009, 01:14:16 am
Hey have any of you heard of The Structure of Man? http://thestructureofmandvd.blogspot.com/ (http://thestructureofmandvd.blogspot.com/) 

It just seems to fit in perfectly with this topic, and I couldn't just not tell you guys.  I'm halfway through the core lessons, and it's ridiculously comprehensive.  It's 8GB of lessons.  It doesn't go through the body at all of the angles, but it teaches you the proportions of everything.  I highly recommend it.  It's not worth $45.00, though.  Here is the torrent for it, if you find it interesting (let's not - mod)  Oh, and if when you download it, make sure you follow the lessons consecutively.  You will learn so much, so fast. 

Enjoy.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on June 07, 2009, 11:53:21 pm
I really don't think you should be posting a torrent for those videos. $45 really isn't that much, especially for something you say is "ridiculously comprehensive" that you "highly recommend." I've spent many times that on some good art books and considering how much Vilppu or other artists charge for their instructional videos, $45 is even less in comparison.

If people are trying to improve their art and cost is a concern, here are some links to free art ebooks over at conceptart.org
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131117
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Joe on June 08, 2009, 12:37:10 am
I really don't think you should be posting a torrent for those videos. $45 really isn't that much, especially for something you say is "ridiculously comprehensive" that you "highly recommend."

I guess it's not, I'm just not in the habit of spending that much over the internet.  But either way, I just hope you check it out.  It's incredible.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: robotacon on June 09, 2009, 11:09:25 am
I've got those DVDs and they are pretty amazing and almost too much to comprehend!
I think the guy is actually distributing them himself because the packaging and the labels were very DIY.
It felt good paying for them too because I felt like I was paying directly to Riven.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on June 23, 2009, 07:46:11 am
(http://xs140.xs.to/xs140/09262/leg771.gif)

the leg i drew for Scribblette, occured to me that i should probably put my own advice up for critique if i'm going to stand by it and this is a pretty good place for that
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Scribblette on June 23, 2009, 08:29:43 am
:)

I figured I should be taking a proper look through here too. Whole buncha saves to desktop for sorting already. That Loomis link is super (hey, the lass there has her legs together!  :lol:)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on June 23, 2009, 11:08:21 am
(http://xs140.xs.to/xs140/09262/leg771.gif)

the leg i drew for Scribblette, occured to me that i should probably put my own advice up for critique if i'm going to stand by it and this is a pretty good place for that

I'm no expert but this seems pretty solid. Both realistic and dynamic. Perhaps the knee needs even a bit more disambiguation, but that's a matter of pixel level finish, not bad anatomy.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Scribblette on June 24, 2009, 02:51:28 am
(http://xs140.xs.to/xs140/09262/leg771.gif)

the leg i drew for Scribblette, occured to me that i should probably put my own advice up for critique if i'm going to stand by it and this is a pretty good place for that

*grins stupidly*

Aha! I have something! This anatomy book here states that there are TWO bones in the lower leg there, not one. Aren't I clever!

 :D

Okay, so he knew that already. :) For anyone who doesn't, from what I can see it's a combination of the two bones that has the fibula (a thinner bone on the outside of the leg) creating the bowing effect, which I think was what ND was demonstrating. The tibia itself curves only very, very slightly.

According to a text here on "congenital unilateral bowing of the tibia and fibula":
Bowing of tibia refers to bending of diaphysis with apex of curve directed anterolaterally, anteromedially or posteromedially. Posteromedial bowing
of tibia is a congenital condition often associated with calcaneovalgus deformity of ipsilateral foot. This condition undergoes spontaneous resolution to a major extent, often leaving only leg length inequality.The latter may result in abnormal gait and backache..."


Phtooie! i.e. if the fat bone is curvy instead of the skinny bone, you go owies and walk funny.

As far as planning out the body goes for miniature sprites, I doubt you'd need to focus on two bones instead of the combination...
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ndchristie on June 25, 2009, 06:24:55 pm
you're mostly right, but don't neglect the shape of the tibia, is has a built-in ridge even in the most pefect examples which does bow out and the profile of which can easily be felt.  the strong devision there in the sketch between light and shade is not an illustration of the fibula, but of that ridge.

in the end what it comes down to is being able to observe the way contour and light changes over the form and figuring out how it will change when the form moves.  for the shin, the important part is not necessarily whether the bowing is due to the tibia or fibula, but that the bow is a constant because it is defined by a bone.  the calf on the other hand will change size and position based on the movement of the leg. the adductors are quite visible when the figure stands with the leg closed, but open they smooth out almost completely.  under the hip, your gluteus medius (occasionally called the hip adductor) along with the tensor wrap around the hip and create a soft form between the hard crest of the hip and the hard top-point of the femur.  the sartorius, the only function of which is to assist all other functions, wraps around and adds a predictable irregularity to the vastus muscles (favoring the inner bottom and the upper middle for form.  the kneecap in a standing position sticks out from the lower point of the femur, but in a bent-knee position is more or less a smooth extension in the direction of the upper leg while the tibia and fibula drop.

my point - it's not really helpful to learn what a leg looks like because it changes so much.  what's best is to learn why it looks like that so that you can construct the basic forms of it without reference and, more frequently in a game-oriented world, in stylization and abstraction (things i still struggle with).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Scribblette on June 27, 2009, 02:33:48 am
Ow. Comprehensive. Have to pull book out again and see which muscles are which. Bones looked easy to learn. Muscles look ... mad... so much practice required!

Oh well, not like there's any other option.

Unless... unless, that is, I stick to designing worlds where the only residents are giant spheres that roll by ejecting streams of gas through holes about their body. I suppose that'd make for some interesting armour/weapon upgrades...

Ach, muscles it is. :)

Edit - I don't know how close this is to what I SHOULD be reading, but I did find it handy whem stumbled across via google a few days ago, when looking up just how mild the difference between human skeletons was. Goes through all sorts of anatomy, human and animal. (http://hippie.nu/~unicorn/tut/xhtml/)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on June 27, 2009, 01:59:46 pm
Oh that's a really nice link.

I burst out laughing when I got to the end, realizing that all the attention spent on learning both human and animal anatomies was SO YOU CAN DRAW FURRIES.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Scribblette on June 27, 2009, 02:06:45 pm
I struggled so hard not to give that punch line away. XD

Edit: I didn't want to hijack this thread too much so all the chatter re pixel anatomy studies are in the other thread, but since it's under-the-skin maybe this is appropriate. I doubt I'll do a muscle version this size, but will probably sketch that up to pixel better. And yes, they're missing something like 3 ribs on either side and extra forearm and lower leg bones.  ::)
 
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/Scribblette/SkeletonsScribblette-1.gif)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: eckered on July 16, 2009, 01:39:59 pm
(http://xs140.xs.to/xs140/09262/leg771.gif)


just thought id pop in and say thank you for this,
seeing the breakdown of a leg's anatomy in a simplified, color coded form really helped me to understand the way legs work.  ive been drawing from this sketch ever since i first saw it in scribblettes thread :)

edit:  these were the first leg sketches i did based on that drawing. 
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/7083/img3727.jpg

and a sketch of my own that i wouldnt mind being critiqued
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/281/img3728.jpg
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jakten on September 07, 2009, 12:34:36 am
Spent a good amount of time drawing some feet today, I need to get back into drawing from life. I feel as though my skills are waning. Still having trouble understanding foreshortening and the way hands and feet are constructed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/MANDRAGGANON/feet.jpg)

Also a hand.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: CrazyMLC on October 09, 2009, 09:04:53 am
Wow, after reading through this thread I'm really amazed at some of the quality, I am really just stumped at finding a better word than amazed.
Flabbergasted?
Awed?
Well, I need a thesaurus if I want more right now but I have some art I'd just like to pin up on the fridge here.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/crazyMLC/drawing.png
Probably my best human drawing. >_<
I think that's kinda pitiful now, so I'm just going to study all of these pictures...
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Atnas on October 09, 2009, 07:11:38 pm
personally if that was mine the crit I think would help me the most was to work on line quality. It's not really making progress learning if you consistently tweak and carve lines, or rather HUGE MASSES OF SPIKY GRAPHITE. If you have nice lines I believe you learn and solidify the shapes and forms in your head. Like reciting a poem, the more you do it the more effortless and flowing it becomes, the poem becoming second nature to you. metaphors oh ho ho . _ .
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Doppleganger on October 13, 2009, 05:17:53 am
(http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww13/pixelgroover/number2.png)

First attempt at some concept art styled photoshop work. That sentence reads pretty horribly.

I had some issues with her chest, breasts, and collar bone region. I think that it ended up alright, but the hands kind of make it difficult to actually know cohesively. I can still see some minor flaws where the areas are exposed, and I think the problem is that the area is too flat and masculine. The neck, too, looks a little problematic. Then, there's her right forearm being much too long. That was more of an oversight than actual error though. And with those poofy sleeves it's hardly the biggest concern. Overall there is a note of fantasy in the features (notably the ears), but, for the most part, I was going for realism.

All the edges are meant to line up with other things, as this was a "quilt" activity.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 14, 2009, 02:28:10 pm
Recently, I'm trying to force myself to draw more, draw lots and then some more, trying to become good at drawing/figure drawing.
This thread has been very helpful so far to me and next to other things played a big role both inspiration and motivationwise.

So here's about two weeks of fast studies, free doodles and also some slow studies(where I try to copy everything by eyeballing).

For the studies, I used the posemaniacs page that had been linked to earlier somewhere in this thread.
(Reduced all images to 50% and 8bit to save bandwidth.)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4492/2009_10_27_03.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4553/2009_10_28.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7705/2009_10_29_03.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/465/2009_10_31.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9476/2009_10_31_02.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6251/2009_10_31_03.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4117/2009_10_31_04.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2443/2009_10_31_05.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3853/2009_10_29.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1241/2009_11_01.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5894/2009_11_01_02.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7740/2009_11_02_03.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4664/2009_11_09b.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/812/2009_11_09_02.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3131/2009_11_11_03.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4890/2009_11_13_02.png)

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9418/2009_11_14.png)

I'm struggling with the constructional approach a lot (as you can tell for example by the image where I tried to envision how to tie a woman to a pole(don't ask)) and I've already grabbed all those Loomis books that were also linked to somewhere in here, so thanks again everyone for this thread, it's pure gold.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: CodeGeorge on November 15, 2009, 09:02:07 pm
I don't draw.  I stopped when I was a kid.  That said sadly I'm in graphic design lol.  I sprite too.  Sometimes I need to draw!  So I decided to take it up again.  Before I'd just heavily rely on proportion charts and stuff and spend way too much time on my work that had to do with realistic anatomy.  Instead of taking all day on drawing a hand I've decided to actually do this stuff again.

So again, I don't draw...  not with a pencil.

Here's my first (unfinished) attempt at female anatomy:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/PlayBoxCube/WOMAN.gif)


I was keeping the pose simple since it's my first time.  It's done in photoshop entirely.  No tracing, just like 10 references.  I've still got to memorize proportions and stuff...  I actually drew a lot as a kid and drew stupidly well for my age at the time.  I kind of wish I didn't ditch it. 

What's the best way to learn this stuff? 
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 16, 2009, 08:24:29 pm
I'm still not sure what I'm going to achieve by all this line by line eye to hand to pen translation process but if my eyes don't fool me, I think I'm making progress, getting better at eyeballing at least. :)

(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2653/2009111403.png) (http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/115/2009111603.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on November 16, 2009, 09:38:40 pm
Yes, yes you are making a LOT of progress like this. The idea is to eventually start to do more work without the reference and then checking with the reference to see where you went wrong. I suggest you look at a pose for 5 minutes and then not look at it while you draw it. Then check where you're off. I guarantee that if you do this for a few weeks you won't believe how much better you've gotten at working without reference.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 17, 2009, 09:17:41 pm
Thanks for the suggestion Helm, sounds like a good plan, I'll start doing those "5 min. peek - hide - draw - check" exercises soon, after a couple of more days of copying.

Here's todays results (some 30 second sketches and another slow copy):
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5363/2009111702.png) (http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4550/2009111703.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Dex on November 17, 2009, 09:36:09 pm
Ahh! Pracitcing and studying anatomy has been the biggest thing I've been doing these past few months.

You can see my full journey from start to now http://www.punaji.com/topic/adams-art (http://www.punaji.com/topic/adams-art) here.

Here's some of the most recent.

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8513/torsostudies.jpg)

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4098/womang.png)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9720/michelangelo.png)

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3633/femaleanatomy.jpg)

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7659/greeke.jpg)


I'll throw up some bone structure drawings and some underlying muscle ones up later, hopefully :crazy:

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: crab2selout.png on November 20, 2009, 08:18:48 pm
Some of those are using Bridgman's as a base, right? I like that you aren't just trying to copy line for line, but you're adding and interpreting as well. It seems to flow with the advice given by this guy on what he thinks you should be doing when copying Bridgmans
http://deadoftheday.blogspot.com/2009/07/perspiration-anatomy.html

I really like the curving lines of the female seated figure on the 4th drawing. It's a nice, relaxed pose.

The yellow/orangey lighting is kinda harsh on your pics, though. Isn't there a photshop filter for fixing that sort of thing?


I think I'm going to try out that 5 minute thing Helm suggested. I kinda feel like my short term memory has gone to hell since I started using the Internet. Like I'm not exercising it as much anymore.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jakten on January 02, 2010, 08:16:32 am
During school we had some life drawing classes but they were fairly basic, they basically just told us to draw the person in front of is with various exercises never teaching us how to understand what's really going on. Lately I've been watching some videos on how to draw anatomy. I figure I need to get back into trying to understand the body in this way as I know it's a lot more important than my reluctant, lazy mind keeps telling me.

I drew two heads and some noses with some reference previous to watching the video. This is mostly just my notes but I'm quite proud of how much more I understand the human skull now after only about an hour. The lower skull I drew as notes along with the video, the upper skull was one I did about 20 minutes afterward on my own.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/MANDRAGGANON/sketch-Jan_02_10.jpg)

One of my new years resolutions is to study and practice drawing every day, so good start to the new year so far!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Gil on January 02, 2010, 04:56:19 pm
Which video did you use Jakten?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jakten on January 02, 2010, 05:36:21 pm
I've been using these DVDs (http://www.vilppustore.com/anatdvd.htm) by Glenn Vilppu. I had never heard of him before and someone randomly suggested him to me. Quite helpful so far though.

Edit:
I decided to try and use this method to draw a face and this is what I came up with, I pasted the head reference over top of it to show how close I was in terms of proportion. I almost got it, some areas are off a good amount and it doesn't really look like her but I think it turned out well. Her eyes are too far apart, the ridge on her nose isn't high enough and her jaw isn't wide enough.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/MANDRAGGANON/sketch-Jan_02_10_03.gif)
Much better proportions than I usually draw though.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Gil on January 03, 2010, 01:37:24 am
Ah yes, I have a book by Vilppu lying around, I should try to look into it.

I'm still doing Loomis exercises right now and I plan on reading Hogarth and Bridgman next.

In terms of animation I've gone over most of the disney material for study (Robin Hood and Sleeping Beauty are very simple and good to study) and some of the flexing tubes era. I also found it nice to study how anatomy and muscle deformation is handled by more recent cartoons, such as the pretty decent "Spectacular Spider-man".

I'm making progress, but I still have trouble putting it all together. I might search for some new life drawing classes in '10 to apply the newly learned techniques on live models. When I was doing life figure drawing, I was still in my contour drawing stage.

What you describe about your life drawings class seems to be contour oriented too. It's good to learn how to interpret masses to contours before starting the theory. That's why the beginner classes in life drawin tend to leave you to your own devices, so you can get acquainted with contours. It's not advisable to do volume study before you know most of the theory, so shading should be left out of those exercises.


As for the drawing you posted, have a look at the mouth area. You oversimplify the way the mouth connects the chin. You can draw a triangle from the mouth corner to the middle bottom of the lips to the chin. That part forms a plane that is not represented in your drawing. Here's an wireframe construction of the nose and chin areas that might be interesting. The nose area I did is not really correct, but still, look at the indent in the middle. There's a fat mass there that needs attention, which runs into the mouth area (represented in green).

(http://www.game-designer.org/art/pixelart/edit/sketch-Jan_02_10_03.gif)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Phones on January 04, 2010, 10:11:33 pm
There's some amazing stuff in here.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Xamllew on April 14, 2010, 04:54:07 pm
Some CnC on this would be great, I'm sort of new to this anatomy dealy but I've done several pages of sketches on paper through the months. I know the feet are horrendous.
(http://www.cubeupload.com/files/608c00devsov.jpg)
I saved it as JPEG...first time I've ever made such a mistake.

Second attempt
(http://www.cubeupload.com/files/cf7200templatepose.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Opacus on April 18, 2010, 11:25:59 am
I didn't think that this would be worth making a topic about, so I'm just gonna ask this here.

How do you go about learning anatomy? What's the best way?

Do you start with learning the skeleton? The muscles?

And what is a good reference for this kinda thing? I've used Andrew Loomis a few times but I always hear mixed things about it.

I've heard it's the best and that it's not that good at all.

It's just that I'd love to start studying anatomy, but I have no idea where to start. Any suggestions would be really helpful.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Presley on April 18, 2010, 01:58:04 pm
I didn't think that this would be worth making a topic about, so I'm just gonna ask this here.

How do you go about learning anatomy? What's the best way?

Do you start with learning the skeleton? The muscles?
Live study or photographic reference of nudes is where I would start.

I don't want to dissuade you from studying the underlying anatomy because it is definately worthy, but getting confident with more general concepts like form, proportion and foreshortening are most important for the beginner.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Stab on April 18, 2010, 02:11:39 pm
General consensus is probably going to be something like WHO KNOWS MEN JUST DO IT!

But I started by attending some local lifedrawing classes (DO ITTTTTTTTTTTTT) and acquiring many helpful books that gave me things to think about and focus upon whilst attending said lifedrawing classes.

I reccomend the Force book (http://www.drawingforce.com/) because it doesn't immediately vault into flexors and extensors and the latin names of finicky little bones, but starts with much, much broader concepts of anatomy, such as how to "see" where the force or weight is, how to see the forceful shapes, and how to actually start drawing. It's not necessarily an anatomy book in the technical sense, but I found it to be a lot of fun and improvement inducing.

Experience and failing a lot is always the best teacher, though. I'm extremely hypocritical on that front. I should go draw. RIGHT NOW.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Tourist on April 19, 2010, 09:07:09 pm
I found a really nifty thread on conceptart.org titled 'Realism vs Construction' that discusses two different approaches to figure drawing.

Thread is here: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160487 (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160487)

The difference is between precisely copying the light values (realism) vs building from 3d forms (construction).  Two large images from the thread that show the difference visually, linked for size:

Construction
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/3068048269_570ea2b402_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/3068048269_570ea2b402_o.jpg)

Realism
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3068914058_d21fa2ab40_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3068914058_d21fa2ab40_o.jpg)

I'm only on about page 4 of that thread as I post this but there is a lot of discussion about different art schools and how they approach the subject. 

Tourist
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Joe on April 19, 2010, 11:52:14 pm
I found a really nifty thread on conceptart.org titled 'Realism vs Construction' that discusses two different approaches to figure drawing.

Thread is here: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160487 (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160487)

The difference is between precisely copying the light values (realism) vs building from 3d forms (construction).  Two large images from the thread that show the difference visually, linked for size:

Construction
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/3068048269_570ea2b402_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/3068048269_570ea2b402_o.jpg)

Realism
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3068914058_d21fa2ab40_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3014/3068914058_d21fa2ab40_o.jpg)

I'm only on about page 4 of that thread as I post this but there is a lot of discussion about different art schools and how they approach the subject. 

Tourist

Wow, man.  That is literally a goldmine of information.  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Gil on April 20, 2010, 12:34:21 am
Pay attention to the section with the free online PDFs. I know some of you haven't got copies of Loomis, Bridgman and Hogarth yet. Vilppu is interesting too, especially for the gestural approach.

Loomis and Vilppu are the best to get started with in my opinion. Bridgman and Hogarth can be a bit daunting at first. Don't neglect the early exercises. Getting convincing gestural stickmen on paper can be a much better exercise than jumping right into anatomically correct, constructed drawings.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on May 11, 2010, 07:18:54 pm
started a female piece.  Its definitely more of an "exaggerated" anatomy style than realistic, but crits would still help here none the less...

(http://danfessler.com/dump/fairy4.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on May 12, 2010, 11:48:58 am
Pretty great. I'd accentuate the chest bones and top muscle and fath through the flesh much, much more though, feels like a solid tube from groin to tits right now.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Beelketh on July 06, 2010, 08:55:31 am
I have begun a little piece and I undergo serious problems with anatomy, so I thought I could ask here for advice  :)

(http://img41.xooimage.com/files/3/6/0/wipartonirop-1e07c60.png)

C&C (and edits) very much appreciated  ;D


   
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 06, 2010, 01:23:53 pm
Hi. Here's some help. Keep in mind my overview is really not very good in itself, as in, I should be hitting the books on anatomy again too. But it might serve as a useful 'middle step' between where you are and where you need to go.

(http://www.locustleaves.com/anathelp.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mathias on July 13, 2010, 06:08:57 pm
It's time.

The time has finally arrived for me to practice anatomy, methodically. Due in part to the constant reminders of importance around here,
but mainly because I've finally hit my irritation threshold. Irritation with possibly my worst off yet most desired artistic skill - anatomy,
or the ability to render the human figure as I will. For so long I've skated by ducking the need for improvement, knowing it would take great effort. So . . .



I bring you the:

(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5453/anatguildbadge.png)



The Anatomy Guild practice regimen:

- 8 sketches per day (just a general goal, do however many you please. Digital, traditional, doesn't matter.)
--- 4 with reference (practice copying various reference, get a feel for the human figure, learn to understand it, etc)
--- 4 with NO reference. (test your knowledge, see what you can do with NO reference. Even attempt positions you've never drawn before. Use what you've learned)

Ultimate Goal
Ability to render the human figure, male and female, old and young, in any position during any action with accuracy.


Many here have recently expressed a desire to improve their own anatomy skills.
I'm posting this all publicly here so those motivated enough can participate and we can all perhaps improve, as a group, helping and encouraging one another along. I could certainly use the help. And I can probably help others.

Having been planning this for over a week, I jokingly called it the anatomy club talking to EyeCraft, from down under, the other day.
He said "Anatomy Guild", so that's what it is. I hope this to be a significant effort so even an official logo was even made hehe.



As a guy with intermediate drawing skills I find that anatomy drawing, like nothing else, greatly challenges the skill-set of drawing. I'm feel pressed just to copy images of humans. Symmetry adds another layer of difficulty.

I dug my anatomy books out of my closet once I thought of this initiative. Got a few decent ones. But it doesn't take great reference material to do this. Most important is the drive to Just Do Itģ, with a view to improving.

I find myself falling back into the ruts of my own ancient drawing practices from years ago when trying to render humans even now - Making the same mistakes, taking the same shortcuts, based on the same incorrect anatomical knowledge. Frustrating, but I know I'll replace those tendencies with better and more correct ones as my studies continue.


As it turns out, I can't follow my own system of 8 drawings a day, 4 with and 4 without ref. I'm not even good enough to do that - I need to procure some basic skills before that's a realistic and useful goal for me to have.
Primarily at this point, I've determined I need to focus on proportions. I cannot satisfactorily draw a correctly proportioned human male simply standing normally facing the camera. 7 heads length, etc, are rules I need to memorize and be able to apply to my work automatically.

Looking through my books, and drawing drawings I've also determined that a basic to intermediate knowledge of major muscle groups is necessary - how they fold into each other, how they contract/retract due to movement, etc. Also the skeleton. Notice how Helm in the post before this included the pelvis. Though all we really draw the is skin, it's the bones and muscles underneath that give it structure to stretch over. You might say skin doesn't matter at all, you must know what's going on underneath.
Fortunately, I've got a nicely thorough anat book with plenty of muscular and skeletal diagrams, even some on transparent pages laid over full color photos of models.

I have all I need to progress. Switching mindsets in order to sit down and have a productive drawing session can be a challenge. So too can just be finding the time to do it. Amazingly though, the one thing I've always lacked - ambition, I have in full supply. Afterall I've meant to do this for years.




Let's begin. Here are some sketches done getting into my own anat drawing regimen.

(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8202/anatpage0107102010.png)

Proportional confusion abounds. I'll get it, though. Didn't break much from doing simple straight-ons. Not happy with that yet. Will start doing more muscle and bone-based studies.
I think my focus at this point should be quick numerous sketches. More quantity than quality. With each stroke I'm teaching my mind how to render a human. The more I do the better. No sense in trying to copy botticelli plates just yet.
Just winding up. Much more to come. Otherwise I'll never improve.



Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 13, 2010, 06:45:06 pm
Very nice ambition. Perhaps you could do 2 non ref studies when you begin, then do your 4 reffed studies, and see what you absorbed in the last 2 non refs. Also, if you're looking for a challenge( obviously doesn't work for symetrical references) draw your reference in reverse. It makes it necessary to know the construction and anatomy of the image before you can translate it properly.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on July 13, 2010, 11:43:39 pm
I endorse this although I don't have time for the exact regiment. I'll contribute as time allows, I mainly want to draw skeletons and muscle groups, the stuff under the skin. At least for some time. And gosh, I need to work on hands and faces again.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on July 13, 2010, 11:59:04 pm
I'm going to participate but I won't be able to post my drawings very often. Ryumaru's variation sounds good and I'm probably going to do it that way.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Jakten on July 14, 2010, 06:39:57 am
I'm going to do my best to join in with this as well. Lately I've been trying to keep up with my anatomy drawings but I keep falling behind, hopefully if I work along I'll be able to keep my focus.

By the way Mathias, what is the anatomy book you own? I've been looking into getting one but I'm not sure which I should get.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on July 14, 2010, 07:05:53 am
Day 1

http://a.imageshack.us/img687/4166/picture174e.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img687/4166/picture174e.jpg) two unreffed
http://a.imageshack.us/img704/7430/picture175bf.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img704/7430/picture175bf.jpg) one reffed
http://a.imageshack.us/img704/6942/picture176jj.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img704/6942/picture176jj.jpg) one reffed

http://a.imageshack.us/img199/3060/picture178bp.jpg (http://a.imageshack.us/img199/3060/picture178bp.jpg) a couple unreffed from a few days ago
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5806/picture179dc.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5806/picture179dc.jpg) same

Sorry for terrible quality and my face all up in your grills, just showing that I'm actually doing stuff.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on July 16, 2010, 04:33:06 am
Nice Cow. Legs look long/crotch too high in the unreffed stuff.

Here are my meager offerings thus far:

What I could remember of the pelvis:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2010_07_14_00_p.jpg)

What I could decipher from reference:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2010_07_15_01_p.jpg)

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/guild_00_01_p.jpg)

Ref: http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=andrea+deveaux#/d2ttfz0

I want to do more... but I'm... so lazy  :yell:

Shall continue drawing bones.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cow on July 16, 2010, 06:15:29 am
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8052/assc.png)
perfect squat form, unreffed (e: he's sitting on an invisible box, that's what I was intending. otherwise it would be all HOLYSHITBALANCEISSUES)

I need to just keep doing what I'm doing right now.

e2:
Quote from: me
I think I just need to learn the volumes of the bodyparts more
 because the shading and stuff is bad right now
 but I pretty much know where everything fits I think
 so, volume and perspective/foreshortening
agree?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 18, 2010, 02:22:39 pm
Jumping on the bandwagon but I can't make enough time to do as many sketches as prescribed, so I'll just post every now and then, when I found an hour or two in which my neck and arm don't hurt as hell, so I can draw a bit.  ;D (hehe, actually it's gotten a lot better already since I'm doing regular swimming and other physical excercises, hope to be pain-free within the next six months).

So so, resuming where I last stopped... posemaniacs eyeballings:
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/787/20100713.png)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6042/20100718.png)


append, another day (first one eyeballed, second one half constructed, half eyeballed):
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1324/20100719.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on July 21, 2010, 02:01:03 pm
Yes, Dennis, more like the last one! That is by far the most productive of them, since it addresses the figure as a collection of solids.

Approach the figures with construction. I don't recommend using posemaniacs for learning the anatomy of the figures. Learn the bones and muscles from a more comprehensive text, learn where they connect, when they bulge/stretch, etc. Learn how to construct the figure by building up the muscle shapes from an initial construction of simpler shapes, like your last sketch.

Just some advice :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 21, 2010, 07:14:41 pm
Thanks for the advice EyeCraft.

I did look at bones and skeletal structure before (few years ago(2002) at my first failed attempt at figure drawing (even started writing a book about how to construct the human body from scratch but somehow (as always) life and the need to make a living(or to quit slacking and do something serious (blah yadda noone wants to read me whining for thirtysomething pages ..) got in the way), tried to skip that this time around but I guess you're right, I should get back into that and while I was looking for references online, I found this hilarious (nonetheless highly educational) introduction to the skeleton system (a must see!)) and an online version of the 1918 edition (copyright ran out) of "Anatomy Of The Human Body" by Henry Gray.

Ok, no drawings in this post, but a couple of links to make it worthwhile:
that funny video mentioned above (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIjj0rC7wcQ)
Grays Anatomy (1918 online edition) (http://www.bartleby.com/107/)
my unfinished old book from 2002 (http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/myOldUnfinishedBook.zip) (sorry it's all in German but it has detailed pictures.. just looked at it again though and I must say my approach/thoughts back then was/were way too technical (especially obvious in the appendix))

Now, back to the drawing tablet..

append
I didn't want to go sleeping without having laid down a single line all day, so after skimming over my old writings, this ten minute scribbled abomination came into existence.
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7383/20100721.png)
I hope to find more time tomorrow for some reading and better construction practice.

append, a day later..
Well today, I collected some facts..
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8509/20100722spinefacts.png)
..broke them down to the bare necessities..
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7874/20100722spineconstructi.png)
..and practiced that a bit.
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9518/20100722.png)

I really feel that this bone approach is way too tedious for a full construction. I believe it would be more efficient to break down the whole body as seen from outside into simple volumes and then only use bones to determine where certain features show. I can't imagine getting a dynamic and interesting pose done by constructing everything from the bone level up. Ah well, still need to study the skeleton.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: bengo on July 22, 2010, 10:19:02 pm
I got nothing to post at the moment but just some recommendations for peeps out there struggling, drawing lots of still life and doing blind contours helps lots. Also got a new book recently thats really good, Figure Drawing - Design and Invention by Michael Hampton, you guys might wanna check it out.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 25, 2010, 08:45:00 am
Not sure if this has been linked to already, but from a first quick browse over it, it seems to be a very interesting (old) thread, following Arran J Lewis, creating 3D models of the various systems of human anatomy (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/printthread.php?t=54097&pp=40).
Probably not the best source for reference images on the skeletal system but I'm having difficulties finding good pictures of bones from all angles, as most images are only secondary sources (drawings or models created by someone else).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Manjaman on July 25, 2010, 11:08:23 am
Here are the latest studies I've made :
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UOMrLzNfP6s/TBd-stpiEWI/AAAAAAAAAGY/K4oH9V7ja2o/s400/%C3%A9tude_accroupie.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UOMrLzNfP6s/TBd-i9L-4lI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/lmYTswycMBs/s400/%C3%A9tude_dos.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UOMrLzNfP6s/TBd-bZCRkII/AAAAAAAAAGI/iIATpeEm6RQ/s400/%C3%A9tude_seins.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 02, 2010, 01:18:33 pm
Returned from Headbangers Open Air yesterday... the silence is still feeling weird.

Struggling with construction (I didn't think it would be that much harder than drawing from reference), need more practice, much more, one drawing every few days is just not enough. How is everyone else motivating themselves? How do you deal with distractions? (friends, family, games..)

(http://a.imageshack.us/img822/8325/20100726.png) (http://a.imageshack.us/img836/4755/20100802.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 08, 2010, 11:44:02 am
Quick, no ref doodley-"construction"(just kept improvising everything after the initial circle), right after coming home from Wacken Open Air this morning (probably with some blood left in my alcohol-system):
(http://a.imageshack.us/img291/272/20100808.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mathias on August 09, 2010, 07:09:01 pm
(http://a.imageshack.us/img101/7545/anatguildbanner.png)

By the way Mathias, what is the anatomy book you own? I've been looking into getting one but I'm not sure which I should get.

So sorry Jakten. A little late! I got a couple mediocre books laying around but then I have one that really shines: Anatomy for the Artist (http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Artist-Sarah-Simblet/dp/078948045X) by Sarah Simblet. My next anatomy quest reference will be one of those ridiculous muscle mags, just for fun.


Nice work so far, everyone.

Dennis, I wouldn't get too caught up in skeletal minutia. I'm sure we're all busy people so we must choose our battles wisely - time is short. Myself, when it comes to bones, I'm concerned mainly with the basic construction and then how certain bones affect a figure's appearance -  for instance how the ileum of the pelvis causes those lateral bulges where the torso connects to upper thighs, scapula cause the protrusions on the upper back, etc. It's great to know what underlying factors are affecting a figure's topography.
I want to memorize all marot bones, be able to draw a proportional skeleton with all major bones in place, and then move on. Same for muscles I guess.
I may try some posemaniacs ref.



I think the key to gaining an understanding of how to draw something is numerous, rapid, exploratory sketches. Repetition makes your brain learn. Brain research tells us that every time the same action causing the same neuron path to be blazed in the brain by electricity, the "memory impression" deepens, solidifying memory - the more you do it, the more you know it.






(http://a.imageshack.us/img808/9555/anatpage0208092010.png)

I'll toss another practice sheet from me into the pile. As you can see, I'm favoring quick sketches. Not trying to create any fine detailed works of art, just trying to gain a grip on the human figure.

Still battling correct proportioning, but in while doing so am slowly gaining a leg up on how everything comes together.

The body is a complex sum of numerous volumes all working together. It's 3D and twists and turns as it wills. I'm trying to get away from 2D flatness. I tend to practice orthographically stale straight-on frontal or profile views.





One area of art that compels me in my goal of anatomical domination is renaissance era paintings. I've always loved them. The wonderful human bodies painted by the oldies back then are inspiring to me. Why not scope out a few neat examples:

(http://meenriquez1229.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/venus_ad.jpg) (http://freechristimages.org/Images_Genesis/Adam_and_Eve_in_Garden_Michelangelo.jpg) (http://www.geometriefluide.com/foto/PIC2033O.jpg) (http://geragundorov.com/images/michelangelo_large.jpg)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 09, 2010, 09:20:44 pm
Tried a digital painting in Art-Rage, using the virtual crayons, turned out ok I think with a few errors in proportions and placement of some of the bone features. Reference was the front skull view from Grays Anatomy book.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img691/7862/20100809q.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cure on October 07, 2010, 04:52:52 am
been hittin' up open model night at the drawing studio, here are a few 30 min. sketches:
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/phototekcub/DSCF3282.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/phototekcub/DSCF3284.jpg)
(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/phototekcub/DSCF3285.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Smash on January 06, 2011, 08:14:45 pm
Bump

Construccions. Im probably blind to the mistakes, didn't use any significant refs.. These are rendered already.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2zggcxk.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/9gzkls.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Smash on January 09, 2011, 01:05:43 am
New one, to be shaded w/ colored pencils in a few moments, some critique would help now  :'(

(http://i56.tinypic.com/nyvkb4.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: miascugh on January 20, 2011, 08:14:26 am
Heya, for those of you who can make use of a german reference book, I thought I'd drop the somewhat poorly scanned but still handy Der nackte Mensch by Gottfried Bammes into my public folder. Feel free:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18393415/Gottfried%20Bammes%20-%20Der%20Nackte%20Mensch.pdf

edit: uploaded another great reference work. not so much about anatomy, or the human anatomy anyway. all kinds of natural pattern work presented in a somewhat graphic fashion. no german skills required:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18393415/Haeckel_Kunstformen%20der%20natur.zip
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mush on February 27, 2011, 01:49:40 am
[Thanks ptoing for the merge]

I want to get serious about art and so I've started a sketchbook to document my journey. Hopefully I will update this everyday.

I've decided to start with Loomis' books for anatomy studies.

(http://i.imgur.com/CfqPy.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/HuzBF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/gTDmB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/WsFKv.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/7coSq.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/codbb.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jf6bu.jpg)


Goals:

-Less strokes
-More confidence in strokes
-Work on stiffness
-More conscious of proportions


Critique is welcomed.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Stefano on April 16, 2011, 01:10:35 am
Do you know Google Body? I've just discovered it today and found it to be extremely useful (and also extremely free).
http://bodybrowser.googlelabs.com/

I had to update my browser/video drivers in order to see it, though.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: pistachio on May 19, 2011, 12:56:40 am
Tiny... bump?

Did some Posemaniacs a few days ago. Was going to upload this, but decided to hold it until I recovered from exhaustion. I'm not sure if it goes here, but I suppose. 

I've always had problems remembering which muscle goes where, and I've always had to pretend by smothering every figure with random circles. Not a very effective way of masquerading if I may say so myself. Starting back at the beginning, with the basics. So far I think I learned a bit, but I still have a fairly long way to go. Maybe... Daily? I still want to leave room for my precious pixels.

Here's about a hundred 45 seconds gesture drawings, not necessarily in any order (but I think the oldest ones are in the middle?), drawn in MyPaint. This thing was so huge (or rather, the drawings so widely spaced) I had to resize it and piece it together like Tetris with the help of my trusty, probably now only partially functional, Print Screen key. Some drawings may be missing or repeated. Maybe I shouldn't have done this all at once...

Large pic is large. (http://i.imgur.com/wi6wL.png)
Comments are appreciated.

@Mathias, does this mean I... automatically joined? ::)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on June 12, 2011, 03:11:08 pm
@pistachio: Really loving those sketches! I highly recommend doing daily sets of 30 second sketches.

@Mush: very nice! Try doing gesture sketches to fix stiffness. Gesture before structure.  :)

@Stefano: amazingly useful tool!!



Well I have been SLACK and not studied for a long time. Here are the beginnings of my penance:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/2011_06_12_00.jpg)

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/anat_00.jpg)

EHHH nevermind the scratchy lines, I'm working on improving that  :)

Been really loving backs lately (kind of a weird thing to say??), so have done a couple of studies on that. Have learned a tonne just with these two drawings. Will probably make the second drawing a daily task until I really have it locked in my mind.

Enjoying anatomy quite a bit! Shall post more in the immediate future.

Long live the anatomy guild.  :yay:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on June 16, 2011, 09:20:18 pm
I was going to post this to the creativity thread but as this one doesn't explicitly say "human" anatomy I figured it would go here.

Struggling to construct believable and functional anatomy for Panzerwurm:

link to video, as embedding does not seem to work here (http://www.youtube.com/user/DennisBusch#p/u/0/t3b7d91O96I)

results so far:
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4194/20110616.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on June 17, 2011, 06:23:25 am
I was going to post this to the creativity thread but as this one doesn't explicitly say "human" anatomy I figured it would go here.

Oh yes, learning animal anatomy is EXTREMELY helpful.

Regarding the Panzerwurm, try to remember that mother nature is obsessed with efficiency. If the animal can get away with not having something, evolution will direct its resources to something else. Consider the roles of the following: the rib cage is a flexible shield around the organs, the plates a kind of inflexible extremely heavy armour, the spikes a repellent defense. Does the animal need all three? Think about how much bone that is, bone is kind of costly to grow. If you remove the most expensive and redundant element, the heavy plates, it seems much, much more realistic, in my mind.

A similar question could be asked of the legs; does it really need 6? Could it get away with 4? Dinosaurs got away with 4, even 2, despite their immense size.

I don't know if the bone structure of the fore-legs really fits their role. The animal is basically going to be walking around on them at all times; their role is as a structural support. The arrangement you have now is more for accomodating a lot of twisting, something more appropriate for manipulators like arms. Look at how much stronger the back leg is, how much better it serves its role as a support.

That's all I've got for that. Definitely check out some dinosaur stuff. :)


I've been doing a whole bunch of sketching, I'll share some;

Drawing from reference, about 15 minutes at it before I had to leave home and go to work  :yell:

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/ehhhhhhhhh2.jpg)

Just some general practice with hands, from ref. I was kind of more focused on my line work than the anatomy though  :-[

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/lines_00.jpg)

Trying to recall all the back anatomy stuff without reference. Stuff in red are MISTAKES.  >:(

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/anat_01.jpg)

These are two half-hour classes I did from this website (http://www.pixelovely.com/gesture/figuredrawing.php) (really awesome site, do recommend!). Uber large images, so I'll just link them:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/00.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/sketches/01.jpg

I've also been doing at least an A2 page of 30 second gesture drawings per day on traditional media. Really helping me with lines and speed. Still a loooong way to go, though.  :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on June 18, 2011, 08:24:38 am
Regarding the Panzerwurm, try to remember that mother nature is obsessed with efficiency. If the animal can get away with not having something, evolution will direct its resources to something else. Consider the roles of the following: the rib cage is a flexible shield around the organs, the plates a kind of inflexible extremely heavy armour, the spikes a repellent defense. Does the animal need all three? Think about how much bone that is, bone is kind of costly to grow. If you remove the most expensive and redundant element, the heavy plates, it seems much, much more realistic, in my mind.

A similar question could be asked of the legs; does it really need 6? Could it get away with 4? Dinosaurs got away with 4, even 2, despite their immense size.

I don't know if the bone structure of the fore-legs really fits their role. The animal is basically going to be walking around on them at all times; their role is as a structural support. The arrangement you have now is more for accomodating a lot of twisting, something more appropriate for manipulators like arms. Look at how much stronger the back leg is, how much better it serves its role as a support.

That's all I've got for that. Definitely check out some dinosaur stuff. :)
Thank you for taking the time for those hints. Those are all valid questions and observations and I thought about it:

As for too much bone structure: I might be able to get rid of the ribcages and the horns on the back but I can't give up the bone plates because they are basically the one thing which make Panzerwurm Panzerwurm (Panzer == tank/armor, wurm == worm). To accomodate for the loss of the spikes on the back I think I'll change the tail and put something along the lines of Stegosaurus or Dyoplosaurs at its end.

As far as twisting and flexibility is concerned: I want that! Panzerwurm is supposed to be agile and flexible while still being armored.

On the legs: Technically he has only two legs in the back, the four other things are arms and I even thought about giving him an opposable thumb on each hand so he could get some real work done and maybe even learn to draw and code someday or make guns to kill off his fellow PanzerwŁrmer. :P
Imagine the possibilities, he could shoot four pistols at once... how cool would that look in slow-motion?

On the strength of the legs/supporting role for walking around: I'll look into moving the two arm pairs further to the front and raising the legs and making them even stronger (think Stegosaurus) and then the two arm pairs should be support enough in the front.

I'll have to trade a little of the anatomical believability for possibilities (what he can/can't do/how he survives/etc.) and to keep the creatures main identifying features intact.

Summary: many changes will be made

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: pistachio on July 17, 2011, 10:25:36 pm
EyeCraft, those hands are looking pretty good, and you seem to be using crosshatching pretty well in terms of conveying shades of light (something seems a bit off about the pinky though). The figure drawing's torso seems a bit stretched though, and her right arm seems to be placed in a rather odd position considering it's the arm that's holding up her weight. Also keep in mind the curve of the spine. It's unnaturally straight right now even in the position it's in.

Now on to me; just finished two pages of gestures for the ConceptArt Spartan Camp, the 190th to be precise. No, I haven't been doing this 190 times, of course. But have you heard of it? Basically a group-centered thing where people gather round and submit pages of gesture drawings before a deadline. I've been stalking them since about #170 but only started doing it now.

Anyhow, I feel I've improved quite a bit since the last time, having taken up studying Bridgman and Loomis (mostly Bridgman). I've become particularly interested in this book (http://www.amazon.com/Figure-Drawing-Invention-Michael-Hampton/dp/0615272819), essentially taking the route of traditional construction, but finally brought down to a level where I find it easier.

The drawings are under links. This one's imagined (http://i.imgur.com/ziGdy.png), a few from memory. This one's referenced (http://i.imgur.com/RDwkx.png), from that pixelovely gesture thingy of course.

@EyeCraft, well yeh, there is a limit on them in a way. I set the gesture tool to "30 seconds" and then just drew away. I found they often took less time than that, about 15 - 20 seconds (as opposed to the last one I posted, where most of them, I feel, remain "unfinished" because I was having a hard time with the limit--no longer!), so I just skipped to the next image when I was done; I suppose the limit's not actually that strict. Occasionally I would cheat and pause, then resume to the next image when finished. ::) This was usually when my hand needed a rest, so I could draw slowly and not have to worry about rushing. As for the line weights, I agree, I probably got a little too carried away with pen pressure especially on the imagined ones. The brush I was using also exaggerated it a bit, but I shouldn't blame most of my problems on it.

Well great, look forward to seeing you there sometime! At the camp. You'll probably know me when you see me, I have the same gestures posted over there.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: EyeCraft on July 18, 2011, 01:06:09 am
pistachio: Yes, I highly recommend that book, I have found it to be excellent. Very logical and adaptable.

Is there a time restriction on your gestures (like 30 or 60 seconds), or are they unbounded?

I find them to be quite good. I have a problem of being too concerned with contours, proportions and specific structures when working with gesture. I think I'm slowly weeding that out though, but you seem to have a great level of abstraction. The line weights seem a little odd though, they get super fat in some places without really communicating anything (to me, anyway).

As for you critiques, I shall do a detailed double check against the reference. To be clear, the dark line running up her back is not her spine, but a muscle (that I don't know the name of!!! :yell: ). The spine is only slightly indicated by the couple of very slight shadow lines to the right of that straight line (she has a very pronounced bumpiness to her spine).

Spartan Camp sounds cool, SHALL CHECK OUT.  ^-^
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: pistachio on August 05, 2011, 02:33:09 pm
Thanks, EyeCraft. Will take that into account.

Her spine, the "shadow" lines you were talking about, does seem a bit straight still. But I suppose it's just my nitpicking. Either way, I'm sure you probably knew about the curve of the spine by then.

After a long hiatus, cranked out another set of gestures (posemaniacs):

Link (http://i.imgur.com/xA0uQ.png)

Extra large to make up for lost time. It's over at the Spartan Camp too.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: jams0988 on October 13, 2011, 04:51:11 am
Heh, cool thread. I need to practice drawing more often...anyway, some quick gestures:

10-30 seconds each (no ref)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1851/sketcheso.png)
~five minutes (referenced)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5238/girlleaning.png)
~ten minutes (ref'd)
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6060/girlsrunning.png)

Gotta start practicing every day...I'll post some actual anatomy studies here soon, as opposed to these messy gesture drawings. I'm too tired tonight to concentrate too hard, hahah. X3
Some great work in here, guys. =D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: blumunkee on May 04, 2012, 06:19:32 am
http://snigom.deviantart.com/art/Female-Anatomy-Patterns-43675502?q=favby%3Ajayspadey%2F39249109&qo=0

Nice overview of female anatomy.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Stab on August 07, 2012, 02:33:26 am
HWUUURRRRR....


BLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Torso_003.png)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Torso_002.png)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Torso_001.png)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Lifedrawing_30min_004-1.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Xamllew on August 07, 2012, 05:42:30 am
HWUUURRRRR....


BLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Very impressive studies. That last figure, bloody lines are beautiful.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on October 24, 2012, 10:10:39 pm
blergh...

(http://imageshack.us/a/img502/9185/20121021.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img716/1609/20121022.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img208/1658/20121024.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mathias on October 25, 2012, 12:19:41 am
Hah, I like how you randomly gave people more ears, in order to practice.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on October 25, 2012, 07:33:00 am
Heh, it was the other way around. I first practiced ears and then added the people to random ears (and as can be seen I screwed up proportions along the way, because out of sheer laziness I winged stuff instead of making proper constructions).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on October 25, 2012, 10:14:25 pm
(http://imageshack.us/a/img827/4012/20121025.png)   

skulls on 29th referenced from 3D models found over there -> http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/dbms-witmer/3D_human.htm
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3386/20121029.png)


Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on October 30, 2012, 10:44:27 pm
The frustrating thing is, as soon as I put the references away, everything ends up weird and wonky and my head seems unable to just improvise an arbitrary rotation/perspective.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4758/20121030.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on October 31, 2012, 09:44:28 pm
referenced from the same 3D model as before (must work on defeating my impatience so I'll take more time to get angles right):

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/392/20121031.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 03, 2012, 05:44:40 pm
Still struggling with angles, proportions and well... anatomy of noses, ears, eyes, mouths... everything I draw comes out ugly and distorted.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/4690/20121103a.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img442/539/20121103b.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 04, 2012, 09:53:26 pm
Making progress on construction of eyes. I first draw a sphere and then wrap the lids around it. Seems to work much better than my previous approach where I always drew the lids first.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5296/20121104.png)

edit, and then I started making some crude reference models:
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3614/20121104molded.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on November 07, 2012, 07:39:53 am
Sculpture is a great way to learn anatomy, in some ways superior as you have to be aware of the 3rd dimension. if you can I would shave off a bit from the top of the guys cranium, its a tad too big. Also bring the nasal bone out on the skull.

Keep this work up. Mileage put into understanding anatomy is what separates the men from the boys as far as art goes.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 07, 2012, 09:47:36 am
Thanks Ryumaru, I already tried to change the skull before but the molding dough is too soft so trying to make adjustments at this scale always end up distorting everything next to the detail being changed. The skull isn't very accurate anyway so I think I'll crush and redo it, perhaps a bit bigger in size. The cranium on the guy I will try to carefully shave off using some yarn.

Continued with some quick no-refs doodles. It appears I still have problems with some angles and proportions and I haven't found a good way to construct the noses yet.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5856/20121106.png)



Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 08, 2012, 10:35:45 pm
Made some adjustments to the male model (which oddly reminded me of the XO on Battlestar Galactica (before the changes)), resized the big mass on the top and tried to add ears. The ears didn't even end up symmetrical, have bogus details and I think the back of the head is sticking out too far but despite the various imperfections, I still think the model will help me getting the angles and positions of stuff more accurate in my drawings:
(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9910/20121109.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on November 09, 2012, 09:47:36 am
http://youtu.be/nWZZ3SFmDS8

This guy has done some amazing videos, explaining both the structures, and giving step by step renderings of the human head and features. Should be right up your ally and help you push your work to the next level.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 11, 2012, 11:12:31 pm
That video certainly made it sound and look easy. Then I tried it myself without looking at the images from the video at first. Problems encountered: Unless I'm missing something, he does not explain how to arrive (how to construct) at the volumes for the planes he shows so I was still unable to construct an arbitrary nose from that (have to practice drawing random planes in arbitrary rotations first, heh).

So I tried to copy the planes he showed with mixed success. So well... some of the information he gave in that video is very valuable indeed, especially the bits about the underlying anatomy. I wish he would provide construction instructions as well, building up the nose from really simple volumes until it arrives at the detailed planes shown in the end.

Or maybe I expected too much, some sort of magical shortcut but there does not seem to be a way around detailed studies and maybe it will only start making sense after drawing a lot of different noses from real life references...

So, the following image shows me struggling to find an easy way to construct the nose, still not quite there yet but with the information from that video, already an improvement over my previous nose attempts:
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6381/20121111.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 12, 2012, 10:38:34 pm
Watched his video again. Tried building the nose from the anatomy he shows. Setting up the nasal bone first and then attaching those blue things and then the red things last seems to work well for the construction:

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2510/20121112.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on November 14, 2012, 02:18:44 am
These are all very good studies; he also has a video where he draws a nose from reference with the knowledge from the video I showed you;  it may help some as he still goes through simplified steps.

In the 3/4 nose in the latest image the bone is slightly caved in and the tip flattened and flared out, really try to imagine the 3-D structures moving ins space

Keep working. I admire your dedication.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 15, 2012, 12:03:13 am
Trying. Really trying. I have trouble imagining how everything appears from different angles. I think I need to build me a nose model as well, so I can study it.

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8563/20121114.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 16, 2012, 12:03:08 am
Just wasted 2h making this odd looking nose model:
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9142/20121116nose.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 18, 2012, 10:49:23 pm
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3885/20121118bc.png)

Started recording stuff so I can watch it afterwards to better note where I go wrong.

Screwed up the hair on the first one (looks like viewed a bit from the top while the rest ist from below). Second one got a weird mouth which doesn't follow the volume of the head. Third one has nose, mouth, ear, neck and chin troubles. Feels like instead of making progress, I'm getting worse.  :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lDBWnGGYvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtNmqFiu4NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-e-GjuNuA0
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 32 on November 19, 2012, 05:07:57 am
I think you could stand to construct a little more Dennis, you move into detail a bit too fast, a problem I also struggle with. Placing the cheek bones earlier would help immensely, once you get those in you can go through and define the side and front planes of the head easily, then move onto the brow and cheek planes. You seem to be just guessing where the mouth goes, remember that the mouth sits over the teeth, which are easily defined as a cylinder. And when you construct eyes consider that the eyeball is a sphere that sits inside the skull, and what you see is the part of that sphere that is uncovered by the skull, and then once again by the eye lids. Hopefully there is something in there that might help, you're definitely on the right track.

Been a while since I've posted here, started an animation course which I've just finished the first year of. Figured I would post some stuff from my life drawing sketchbook, most were done during semester break in July, the last two were a couple of weeks ago.
20 min, 10 min
(http://i.imgur.com/z1czv.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/H4t8y.jpg)
10 min, 20 min
(http://i.imgur.com/96zv9.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/TJuss.jpg)
5 min, 15 min
(http://i.imgur.com/3XZHt.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/GeKyk.jpg)

I have some done over longer periods on a1 but no camera to get a picture with unfortunately.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 20, 2012, 12:09:24 am
Those life studies are looking good, except maybe that the first one has quite childlike proportions and the third ones' arm/hand look a tad too long/big.


Yes, I really need to force myself to go more slowly and to overcome my impatience while drawing.

So today, I tried to extend the construction phase and to correct more errors while drawing (still missed some I think, the far eye placement seems a bit odd and there's definitely something wrong with the chin region and the neck):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elj5xUgAmV0

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1118/20121119.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 21, 2012, 11:29:37 pm
I'm starting to feel a bit like a spammer again, posting almost every day.  :(

Still practicing construction and trying to improve my patience by going slower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSgnxARaoQ

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8828/20121120a21.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: NaCl on November 22, 2012, 02:47:24 am
I'm a lefty too. You should really try loosening up, using a soft pencil, and going slow. I have the same tendency to over-construct with this absurd precision, and a mechanical pencil really lets you give in to that temptation. Loomis and them give good guides on constructing the head, but I feel you're following it too rigidly.

I also believe that you're focusing too much on the details, and losing sight of the image as a whole. Don't use these construction techniques as a crutch in place of seeing the whole of the thing you're drawing. I find it best to work top down, getting the whole of the thing right, and then working in the details. Because when you go from detail to detail, they don't come together right (which is what seems to be happening in your drawings).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 27, 2012, 12:34:57 am
Hm... but if I try to loosen up and not pay proper attention to the construction, everything ends up oddly distorted and out of proportion again:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img9/5082/20121126a.png)

After that I fired up Blender to make a small model which shall aid me in constructing the basic ball and jaw. I can use this to peek how circles wrap around the flattened ball in 3D and how the basic jawline appears from different angles:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img836/6783/transparentballv2.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 27, 2012, 10:47:02 pm
Acquired some new pencils today, ranging from 5H to 5B. It's a lot easier to draw the soft construction lines (almost invisible and easy to remove) with a hard pencil.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7226/20121127.png)

edit (some sloppy fixes, addressing feature placement issues, utilizing the 3D model)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3402/20121127fixes.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on November 28, 2012, 12:42:13 am
It's really inspiring how much work you're putting into this. Not often are people this for real when they say 'I'm going to study'.

Here's a token of my support for the inspiration you've given.

(http://www.locustleaves.com/2342342561.gif)

The work you've done with noses shows. The thing I had to edit less was the nose. The volumes are there. You probably understand noses better than I do now, the rest is just draftsmanship.

But do you see what you have to do next? You have to learn how to de-symbolize eyes, lips, ears, eyebrows, hair etc all of that next. Step by step, get to a more solid understanding of a face. The way you do lips specifically look like mr. potato lips because you haven't gotten the hang of lips being part of the skin. You append them on the face. But they're just folds. Blood-red folds with lots of nerve endings. By far the most difficult part of the face after the eye to de-symbolize and draw "as it really is". I am not even halfway there either, but it's a useful middle step to look at.

I am awful at necks, just completely invented, but again, perhaps it's an encouraging middle step between where you are and where someone who really knows how to draw would do it.

Please carry on with your studies.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 29, 2012, 12:42:38 am
Thanks a lot Helm for your encouraging words and for that edit. It may or may not be interesting to note here that in the head you'd chosen to edit, I drew the nose first right into the empty space and then bogus'd the rest of that head around it, trying to skip most of the construction.

It is true that I must concentrate on beating wrong habits and symbols out of my head. Your description (and edit) of the mouth as folds of flesh is very helpful (along with the video Ryumaro linked to earlier). I tried to pay special attention to that in today's practice drawing and it seems like a huge improvement over how I drew the mouths before.

I also tried to vary line width and line darkness a bit here. Before I went back to drawing today however, I created another 3D model in Blender which is supposed to help me getting the angles of the construction lines for "Loomis Ball And Plane"-method right. I added some simplified ears, nose and lower jaw and teeth guidelines on top of the basic ball and middle line construction.

Today's drawing was done by first eyeballing the construction lines from pose E9 in the chart below and then adding the features on top of that. I left most construction lines intact and the neck is made up as well since I haven't started taking a close look at necks yet.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img195/9272/20121128.png)

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7389/headconstruction8bitlab.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on November 29, 2012, 03:11:13 am
The model is shaping up, and is a great tool to use and process to go through.

The latest drawing has an issue with the length of the nose in perspective. You will see that the length of the brow to bottom of the nose is about the same as the bottom of the nose to the chin. Usually, these measurements are roughly the same front on, but in this foreshortened view, the former should be much smaller.

You are doing a good job of thinking of the eye socket in 3 dimensions. Immediate improvement in that regard.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on November 29, 2012, 11:05:34 am
The foreshortening works different in an orthographic projection though as opposed to a perspective projection where objects of equal depths which are closer to the camera appear bigger than those which are further away. As can be observed on the 3D model (rendered with an orthographic projection) the distances between brow-line <-> nose-bottom and nose-bottom <-> jawline are always exactly the same.

Placement of the features was still somewhat off as the following overlay edit reveals. The result after replacing and aligning the features still looks odd. I wonder if that's because of the orthographic projection or if there are other major flaws.

(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1551/20121128fixes.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ashbad on November 29, 2012, 07:32:13 pm
I hate to drop in with no studies to post (yet), but I've started doing quite a bit of drawing practice, including many portraits from life (friends at school).  The likeness with many of their subjects is usually somewhat decent (they look alike when put next to the subject, but away from the subject you can still tell who it is), and usually gets that "wow" factor from everyone watching nearby (they aren't very great in my opinion, but I guess when one draws realistically and is actually somewhat successful, people see it as black magic).

Anyways, to my point: I'd love to start anatomical studies -- after doing these portraits, I'm extremely interested in the human face/head in particular, which would probably be my first subject of study.  This might have been asked before, but since many people have seemingly found many great new resources over time... what would you suggest I study from that has worked best for the majority here?  Thanks in advance!  I'll be sure to eventually contribute some of my beginning study results soon.  I'm willing to work as hard as needed, so don't hold back if you're thinking of suggesting "the hard way" to begin studying.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 01, 2012, 03:17:47 pm
Ashbad, the hard way would be to be a creeper and draw people from life outside (Public transportation works well for that but be prepared to get some angry looks when you stare at people analyzing their features. If you wear headphones and listen to loud music you can at least prevent them from actually starting to talk to you. After some time you can move on to sketching them in your head, still being a creeper staring at them but without the additional awkwardness which arises from them seeing you scribbling down lines into your sketchbook while you keep looking up and down.)

Other than that, others have suggested studying Loomis which is what I'm currently doing, reading "Drawing The Head And Hands". I'm still at the beginning of the book but already learned a couple of things which helped improve my head drawings. Of course, posting your drawing on the web and receiving critique is also a good way to learn. Avoid family and friends for critique for they tend to be mild on you and dishonest in that they won't point out your flaws because they're too afraid to hurt your feelings.

----
Today I tried to make an arbitrary construction without looking at the 3D model. This time I started with the ellipses which form from the sliced off sides of the main ball of the head and then constructed the head around them. Afterwards I looked at the 3D model and picked the orientation which seemed to match it most accurately (which turned out to be D3). Based on that I found too many flaws and after a bit of trying gave up on correcting all of them which leaves me with the abandoned version on the far right:

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7548/20121201.png)
(this proves once more that if the construction is flawed, no amount of tweaking and screwing around on the individual parts afterwards will be sufficient to make it look right as a whole)

My mind seems to be controlled by some strong force of habit which always wants to go back to rendering the face from a straight symbolic front view and it also refuses to accept that some things are hidden underneath others and thus should not appear in the drawing at all, it's like the mind does not like leaving out anything and wants to spread out and draw even the things that lie covered around and behind an edge. This becomes most obvious whenever I get towards drawing the mouth and chin region.




Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 01, 2012, 10:52:47 pm
Dennis, if you are not aware of it, you should know that our brains are wired to see symbolically just as you are describing, which is why it is natural to you. Trying to draw un-symbolically is actually a very unnatural thing for one to do, and is compounded when we are working from imagination and do not have a solid model infront of us to tell us something is "wrong".  I would actually recommend taking the time to work from life or photographs right now, as I think you need to build up a mental library of how different features look in different angles so that you can inject that information into your imaginative studies. It's very easy for things to look " fake" or plastic or otherwise off when you are only going based on the knowledge of construction and not the knowledge of how fleshy faces look like.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: jengy on December 02, 2012, 01:14:11 am
I would actually recommend taking the time to work from life or photographs right now, as I think you need to build up a mental library of how different features look in different angles so that you can inject that information into your imaginative studies

I would definitely agree with Ryumaru on this idea. Drawing something that exists in real life from the imagination is extremely hard, and there are plenty of online resources available to draw from. Most professional artists, if they are seeking realism, draw from resource. And if you are just practicing, then there is no reason to draw from imagination if you can get better faster drawing from life or photographs first.

This not only instills confidence in yourself, but it also teaches you to see something as it is--abstract, 2D shapes that represent 3D forms.

From what I'm seeing, you're trying to do battle with 1) perspective 2) proportion 3) imagination drawing 4) identifying enclosed shapes. Reducing these problem solving exercises to one challenge will may help you grow faster in that area and understand it more.

The main thing I would recommend trying to get better at is seeing abstract, 2D shapes that every drawing is made of. The book "Drawing On The Right Side of the Brain" has a lot of techniques for this, such as flipping the canvas and using a grid system to determine placement. I made a short gif with tips on how to draw from an image.

Here's a short gif with some tips (here's the png if you prefer: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oC4DXkd3uSo/ULqps1TrPvI/AAAAAAAAE0M/WTqmTMmjYJw/s1600/fordennis.png):
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8VpW1gO8EpA/ULqptxoU1PI/AAAAAAAAE0Q/pIVuKssFXVA/s1600/fordennis.gif)

And good luck! :) Art is hard, but if you are open to trying new things, you can really grow your talents and technical skills. Try everything until something works for you!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cyangmou on December 02, 2012, 02:05:19 am

The main thing I would recommend trying to get better at is seeing abstract, 2D shapes that every drawing is made of. The book "Drawing On The Right Side of the Brain" has a lot of techniques for this, such as flipping the canvas and using a grid system to determine placement. I made a short gif with tips on how to draw from an image.

Working wih a 2D grid is quite a nice crutch as long as you are doing photorealism. It definitely sets the placement for stuff and for "copying" from photos or even "copying" from live, although it only works with one perspective and it's also quite easy to mess things up with a grid if you are just copying tonal values and don't understand the underlying structure and form. Maybe some artists are doing it in this simple way, but there are lots of ways to use a photo reference.

Working with a simple grid would be a big step backwards for Dennis because he is reproducing his knowledge in the third dimension.

Maybe the end result would look better if he'd draw exactly from photos, but I think it won't help his vision and it's not the thing he is aiming for.
If we draw a head out of mind our own mistakes are pretty visible. The human sight is especially trained to see the face and even the slightest differences in mimic of a face (not at least because of surviving, imagine your perception of a face would be weaker - you won't be able to differ 2 persons or to predict their mood) and because of this the face - or the head are the ideal object to improve oneself - because the issues are pretty obvious. If you draw an apple nobody will see a big difference to a photo, even if there is ( I already checked this out...). But if a single angle is different in a face it's changing the whole impression drastically.
Photos are good to study how something looks - but after all it doesn't help the same if you have to draw the object in a different angle or with a different lighting angle or different lighting scenario.

I admire Dennis for what he is doing, because he trains his skill of forms and he also keeps me motivated to study. I also see that he also makes a lot of big improvements - because if you compare the newest stuff with the drawings from some weeks ago I can already see a huge difference in skill and experience.

I hope you keep the good work up Dennis  :y:

Edit: Flipping is good, because it makes the image fresh to look at - especially if the imaginary picture is only from one side, this helps a lot to get the forms right.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: jengy on December 02, 2012, 04:33:57 am
Working with a simple grid would be a big step backwards for Dennis because he is reproducing his knowledge in the third dimension.

It's definitely important to understand the underlying structure of the thing you are drawing. This technique specifically targets errors in proportion, which I think is very important when understanding the figure straight on, but doubly hard if you are trying to translate those proportions into space. I mostly want to recommend that it might be good to tackle one issue first (proportion), instead of two (proportion and perspective).

Proportion in itself is tricky, and using certain mechanics can help you build your eye for it (like drawing from life, photos, ect).

I do agree with a lot of your points Cyangmou, but I would only say that you should always try out a technique to see if it may help before not trying it at all.

We can say certain techniques are crutches, but anything can be used as a tool for learning if we can adapt past their limitations and integrate the technical abilities of exercises into our own workflow.

Iíll use myself as an example:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M3D4SVNceEI/ULrUNCA2LQI/AAAAAAAAE08/CaKGH1E5ZNo/s1600/portaitexample.JPG)

The drawing on the left is from April, and the drawing on the right is from June. These are drawn from life/observation.

I hated drawing from life or images. It bored me to tears. I never did it until this year, and now I see its worth.

After drawing from photos for a couple months, I found improvement even in my non-photo based drawings.

It may not work for everyone, but just trying out a technique canít hurt. Iíve been doing an art challenge (one drawing a day) since April and doing a mixture of imagination, life and drawing from photos, and all three have shown me something worthwhile.

And yes, kudos for throwing down so many posts! I agree with Cyangmou that it's inspiring. :] I guess what I want to convey is--try everything! At least once! One drawing can convince you of something or tell you that something doesn't work for you. Perception of technique is one thing, but doing it is another. And good luck to you!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 02, 2012, 12:25:55 pm
That's some good progress in those portraits jengy. I think your portraits might benefit from some real life pencils or charcoal next to add more character to them.


Thanks for all the positive, constructive and kind words everyone.

Even though I don't currently have any new studies to show, I feel like I should respond to what has been written so far before the backlog of text becomes too long and before there'll be too much stuff to respond to.

Thank you jengy for putting in the time to prepare that summary of some of the techniques presented in Betty Edwards' book (I hope you didn't specifically prepare those only for me though, because I already worked with that book back in 2001/2002, so that would have been a waste of your time. Still a useful picture for everyone trying to improve their life studies). It's really a good book and I think I've recommended it to others myself a few times over the years. I even keep meaning to read it again. :)

Personally I'm not a friend of the grid and never used it because I want to train my eyes/mind to be able to do stuff mostly without additional tools. Also, I'm too lazy to build a good physical grid, heh.

Cyangmou is right that simply "copying from life", trying to be a human camera, isn't enough and he's also right in that this is not where my main focus is on right now.

My current goal is to be able to construct any pose/angle from scratch with believable anatomy and volumes in a somewhat realistic appearance and without relying on any references (imagine being stuck on a lonely island where you have to invent & draw your own new friends from imagination to stay sane).
I see how I'm hitting a road block here again though, because I don't know enough about how the human features look from all angles yet and which basic volumes they're best constructed from, so life studies as recommended by Ryumaru and jengy are very important indeed and I should really do them more often.

That mental library of things which Ryumaru mentioned, combined with the constructive approach by Loomis, an understanding of volume and maybe even using photo references and being an observant creeper in real life (without copying 1:1) for getting features right should eventually end up giving the best results.

To make this post worthwile, I'll post some real life studies I made in the past over the years (in fact, I do these so rarely (because I find inventing more interesting than copying), those are all I could find) (anything pre 2002 I never got around to scanning it and I don't even know which box or drawer it's currently hidden in)).

2002 seems to have been a productive period. Then there's a long stretch of nothing until a single drawing from 2007, following by more nothing until two drawings from 2009, followed by nothing again until now 2012.

Another goal of mine is to first get back to and then surpass my skill level as it was 10 years ago. :)

2002:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_02_13.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_02_14.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_03_18.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_03_19.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_03_25.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_04_04.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_05_07.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_05_08.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2002_05_11.png)

2007:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2007_03_22.png)

2009:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2009_11_22.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2009_12_10.png)






Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 02, 2012, 11:14:52 pm
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7254/20121202.png)

I intended to draw a full portrait of her but I felt intimidated by her beauty and thought there was no way I could be able to capture that with my rusty and crude pencil-fu, so I just drew an eye. Even in that little portion I made a few mistakes and got some angles and stroke lengths wrong. The most obvious error is the fold which covers the upper eyelid, it seems a little swollen in my drawing thus already destroying the perfection found in the original. Also, it does not seem to wrap as softly around the bone as it does in reality and just ends abruptly on the left with a sharp edge.

Furthermore, I misinterpreted the dark stuff on the lower left as lashes from the lower lid where now after comparing my drawing side by side with the reference I think those dark lines are actually shadows cast by the lashes from her upper eyelid. Also, the dark lines inside the colored part of the eye are probably reflections of the lashes (got that wrong too while drawing and assumed seemingly random pigmentation).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: wishie on December 02, 2012, 11:33:30 pm
The lines on the eyelashes are a little thick. I would practice on a scrap sheet of paper with pencil strokes. Just make a bunch of strokes until you can get a thin, wispy(?), eyelash look. It'll help train your hand on knowing how the strokes for eyelashes are supposed to feel. (same with eyebrows too)
Your lashes are a little to even as well, especially the longer ones.

Also, on the upper eyelid, that dark spot is a little to dark and cuts off as a corner instead of blending in with the rest of the skin like in the photo.
She does have eyeshadow on, so the part on the lower lid is probably some blending of the eyeshadow.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 03, 2012, 12:40:37 am
Good observation on the lashes, I'll try making them more irregular in the future.

I tried making a few corrections, first to the original which soon became impossible to further fix further because of the limitation of non-digital erasers, graphite pigments and paper and then some additional digital ones. I'll abandon it now.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/681/20121202j.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: wishie on December 03, 2012, 02:41:29 am
Nice edits. You could draw the eye again? sometimes it takes more than one sketch to get something to look like how you want it.

Here's some stuff I've done recently:
(http://i.imgur.com/orMSm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EYXKy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BOC8E.jpg)
(I know that face is out of place)
(http://i.imgur.com/RyDgP.jpg)
muscle study using posemaniacs.com
(http://i.imgur.com/aNH7q.jpg)

Below are two muscle study sketches that I did a year or so ago for a life drawing class:
(http://i.imgur.com/fFEao.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7NlMR.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 04, 2012, 02:45:31 am
"That mental library of things which Ryumaru mentioned, combined with the constructive approach by Loomis, an understanding of volume and maybe even using photo references and being an observant creeper in real life (without copying 1:1) for getting features right should eventually end up giving the best results."

Yes, this assortment of studying is pretty common/ popular and should give results.

When trying to invent human features, it simply cannot be done convincingly until you have a pretty good idea of how you want it to look; and this comes from the mental library. This is the real grinding part of the studies, even if it's not fun for you it still has to be done.

The life drawings are nice, especially the hands. it would be nice to see you do more. When doing studies from life, you should still construct as opposed to copy. this will allow you go back and learn from your drawings, even have them be future reference.

wish: nice drawings, keep it up :]
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 04, 2012, 06:29:27 pm
I tried to make a construction based on the photo but then quickly caught myself alternating between constructing and copying. My construction however wasn't perfectly true to the angles of the head in the photo, so the result ended up falling apart with random features placed based on my construction and others being placed and drawn as referenced from the photo.

Also, the end result does not look like her at all and while drawing I often found that even very minor differences of less than an estimated two degrees in an angle already made a huge difference in the overall appearance. Same seems to be true for line thickness: e.g. That one thick line almost seems to make the lower lip appear 1.5 times as high as it really is.

I could probably digitally keep adjusting it until perfection (or directly draw on top of the photo) but that seems pointless, so yay, another abandoned study which once again proves that a flawed construction is the root of all evil. So I think I should really practice construction more than drawing from life. Or perhaps the simplified head (ball and plane) construction is flawed in itself because it's not an accurate simplification of the skull?

(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8104/20121204.png)



Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 04, 2012, 08:06:42 pm
Why separate the construction from drawing from reference? The basic sphere/ plane is good enough at what it aims to do, but as you should have noticed from the reference is that there are a myriad of forms that you just don't think of when working from imagination. Learning to decipher these into more basic forms will allow you to catalogue them in your mind and help populate the library I'm talking about. Work from life is necessary to work from imagination, otherwise you are drawing from a void.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: NaCl on December 05, 2012, 12:31:38 am
I'm no pro at all. But I still think the problem is that you're moving from detail to detail, not looking at the image holistically. So the relationships of the things to each other are distorted. The only solution is gesture drawings, not meticulous construction.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 05, 2012, 09:38:40 am
No, the problem here and the reason for why the relationship of the things to each other are distorted, is a severe lack of proper/meticulous construction.

It is not my intention to separate construction from reference and I made a construction in the 2h version first. The problem was though, that I didn't stick to it and that the head I constructed had a slightly different perspective than the head in the photo. Then when I came to render the features, I rendered some features in the places and at the angles they had to be according to the construction and others (without paying much attention and due to a lack of discipline and patience) according to their orientation and placement in the photo.

A proper construction (executed with patience and discipline) which was true to the angle in the photo would have lead to features being placed correctly and then I could still have copied them accurately from the photo and in their correct places and orientation using the angles and curves found in the photo and they would have been in-sync with the angles of the things as they should have been if drawn from memory guided by the construction.

So that's what I meant by "need to practice construction more". I should rephrase, I need to build the patience and discipline to make sure the constructed version has the correct dimensions and angles before moving over to the rendering.

Further edits can be made but they won't fix the issues of the underlying "anatomy" being skewed:
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6/20121204fixes.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: jengy on December 05, 2012, 07:38:28 pm
These books are really pretty helpful with thinking about negative space/forms and wrestling proportions:

http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Drawing-Atelier-Traditional-ebook/dp/B007QPFERQ/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1354734101&sr=8-2-spell
http://www.amazon.com/dp/082300659X/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

This is a image from the "Lessons" book preview that has the process:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eIDF7w8dlp4/UL-f9RJqG7I/AAAAAAAAE7Q/AO-adzESXqU/s1600/lessonsfromclassicaldrawing.JPG)

When I tried this process a while ago I couldn't move past the "this thing is hard edged and blocky stage" but with Photoshop dimming the layer and drawing over would probably work much better. The equivalent if you're working on paper could just be a pass over with a kneaded eraser or a retrace of your image.

The main thing that also might help you is starting with proportions and then taking a break. It might help you come back to the image with a more clarity and objectiveness, which is helpful when you have to do the math of measuring everything out.

You could just start the drawing off with just a blocky, proportions only-sketch in the above image, leave the image, and come back and check your proportions.

When I was having trouble with copying, I also just tried tracing the image a few times, and then performing the copy. Sometimes your mind just can't handle all that information and your hands can't really replicate it, so tracing a few times and then discarding can really help clear that up as well.

The Ctrl Paint guy also discusses this technique for getting past certain observational barriers:

http://www.ctrlpaint.com/draw-100/

Proportions is something I need to work on too personally, and I've only recently been determined to beat down that very fundamental demon. It's boring as hell to check proportions, but it's also essential in drawing everything.

It usually takes 10,000 hours become a master of any skill, so just keep logging hours and you'll get there.   

Talking about this also really helpful for me, so thanks for the discussion. :)

How I usually feel when I have to do a photo study:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3sj0imPpud8/UL-lfZYgKQI/AAAAAAAAE7o/fizvxjk6Ks0/s1600/AINTNOBODY.JPG)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 06, 2012, 12:49:08 am
Hrrmmmmpffff.

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4251/20121205.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on December 06, 2012, 02:52:21 am
Dennis, I think you are getting somewhere with that sketch. In the case of referenced studies, the sighting of angles and proportions is as, or even more important than the construction as we all have deviations from the norm.

I actually decided to do a study of that image in an attempt to maybe show some things I can't with words, here's a video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OR3oSme_TQ&feature=youtu.be

Most of this can be done with pencil/ paper, towards the end though I did move parts of the eye and nose by cut and paste.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 06, 2012, 11:00:55 pm
@NaCl: I apologize. I brushed off your comment recommending gesture drawing too quickly and it's actually a very helpful thing to do as I've seen today.

@jengy: 10000 hours... will do, unless I run out of steam of course.  :P

@Ryumaru: Yes, thanks! That's very helpful and it's always interesting to see others drawing. May I comment though that your drawing isn't recognizable as Kirsten Dunst? Maybe it wasn't your intention to capture the likeness though, seeing your process is still very helpful.

So, in todays doodle, I tried a combination of gesture drawing, finding certain rhythms which flow through the whole reference (most obvious one I saw was that first invisible curve which connects the two hands) and construction (even bogus'd in sternum and collar bones from what little I remember about them and tried to place the invisible ear and parts of the invisible hand). That helped a lot getting a much more balanced result (individual proportions are still way off, the likeness is completely absent but my excuse for that is that it's just a 20 min doodle and I was not focusing on drawing a polished finished piece here).

Well, it's certainly an improvement over yesterdays attempt which is very off balance due to the evil meticulous construction which NaCl advised against doing (should have listened to that sooner).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2tqJ6KNNt4

result (embedded in a picture of the workspace setup, including ghetto camera stand):
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6158/20121206ws.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Joe on December 07, 2012, 09:59:41 am
Dennis, I have been watching your progress for weeks now and it's very frustrating.  Keeping with this,

Quote
My current goal is to be able to construct any pose/angle from scratch with believable anatomy and volumes in a somewhat realistic appearance and without relying on any references

I would say it is consistent across all your work in this thread that you haven't learned to 'see' properly.  And I must say that your current method of deriving construction from your reference photo, then applying the features to that framework, is counter-productive and further obfuscates the process of drawing.  Yes, Ryumaru certainly has a point that constructing while drawing allows you to learn construction; it does.  But it conflicts with proper drawing, as evidenced in both your videos (You start your drawing completely by construction, and end up with a product that does not match the proportions of the reference.  From a different angle, Ryumaru starts his drawing blocking in large shapes, then some light construction on the face which later causes him problems, because he inserts the features to conform to that structure, as opposed to where they are.  The eyes require manipulating later on, and you can see the centerline being completely ignored with the nose placement.  It's because he knows how to draw so well that the end result is still ridiculously awesome.)

Drawing from one's head is where construction is properly used; this is your goal.  But being that drawing from your head is still drawing from a reference, it follows that drawing from construction is a subset of drawing from life/reference.  So that brings us to the root of the problem, which is drawing itself.  I will be blunt, your images are rife with symbolism.  Two others have mentioned it and I'm sure you're aware of it too.  While you are still at a level that symbolism pervades your drawings... you can't really progress until you kill it.  You can try to learn construction, but your symbols will skew all of your drawings, noticeably so, and you won't be able to put your finger on why there's always something off about them.  Speaking from experience here.  So I say this will the utmost enthusiasm:  The most effective way for you to improve right now, and forever, in the shortest amount of time, is to learn how to see. I noted that you've worked with DOTRSB, which is very convenient... that is the book I recommend to you now.  Whatever it is you did do in that book, you did not practice enough.  As my own drawing was starting to mature, I happened upon it, and it formalized all the ideas I had about drawing.  I'm sure you know what it contains, but I urge you to reread it through completely, and post your progress here.  I see you mentioned you did not want to use the grid.  I couldn't agree more.  I hate the grid and think it's a crutch; instead, I completed DOTRSB without a viewfinder.

Here is my own attempt at your reference, and here (http://imgur.com/a/0tWsl#0) are some progress photos.  Sorry for the shitty quality, I am not good at getting images onto the computer...

(http://i.imgur.com/qPz0rh.jpg)

Yes there are faults with it, and I know what they are.  And someone probably wouldn't guess Kirsten Dunst right off the bat if you asked them who it is.  But it's fairly close to the reference image, and I did not use an ounce of constructional knowledge.

So to recap: Please do yourself a favor and go through Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain from the beginning.  Also I am sorry if I came off as crude.  But I took the time to post and draw the example, because I see you're working really hard on this and I truly want to see you improve.  :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: wishie on December 07, 2012, 06:34:05 pm
I also want to add that you should be drawing with bigger paper. That sketchbook is tiny for the the type of practicing you want to do, Dennis. For the stuff I posted earlier, they were done in a 9"x12" sketchbook (multiple sketches on each pag). If you don't already have one, I would recommend getting one ;D
(Mine is a strathmore, 400 series btw)

That sketchbook that you have is great for when you have an idea that you want to sketch down before you forget it or something catches your eyes when walking around town and you want to draw it. For the work that you want to do at the moment, working on a letter sized (8.5"x11") or bigger paper would be best.

Also, for gesture resources, you can try out these:
posemaniacs (http://www.posemaniacs.com/)
Figure & Gesture Drawing (http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/)

I like to use posemaniacs more, but the second one also has a class room setting option which is nice (starting from quick gestures, to longer drawings).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 08, 2012, 07:31:44 pm
@Joe: I just need more practice, that's all. Drawing only from life after the methods presented in Betty Edwards' book however is not sufficient practice because that only trains, as you know, ones' own perception and ability to see whatever is there but only as flat 2D shapes, as the contours which are formed as a projection of the real world volumes onto a flat surface. The result appears 3D if the perception and translation to pencil strokes was accurate but it does not mean the artist understands the volumes or that he/she could render them accurately from a different perspective without the help of a different reference photo.

I am aware of the fact that it isn't necessary to have any constructional knowledge to arrive at good life drawing skills (given many hours of practice of course) if you just draw what you see and keep making sure you really see it right. But that is not the main focus here.

The main focus/goal is on arriving at an understanding of that which is there as 3D volumes of width, height and depth and to be able to quickly render those from any angle from imagination, even angles which are completely different from the referenced real world object and angles from which an object hasn't even been seen before by extrapolating from what is already known and by imagining how it might appear from that unknown angle.

Now, if, and I stress IF I already were an expert at that, at spotting and correctly placing/feeling the volumes as they extend into the space in all directions, there would not be much difference in either drawing what is seen as a flat 2D image or drawing what is seen as 3D volumes first and then rendering the contours, lights, shadows and halftones based on those volumes.

The latter would have the advantage (over a mere 2D copy) of enabling the artist to render the referenced real life object(e.g. a photo) with a different light source or from an entirely different angle.

@wishie: Posemaniacs is great (worked from that in 2009 a bit (as seen on some older page of this thread)) and I should also get back to working from that again. I'll also check out the other site you linked to which seems interesting as well (and it features real naked people too!).

Working at bigger size is also a good idea (although in theory it doesn't make a difference since an accurately constructed or copied image should feel right at any size).


Now here are the results of todays practice.

First is a drawn comment on "your images are rife with symbolism":
(http://imageshack.us/a/img835/6954/20121208a1.png)

Second, some 30sec posemaniacs studies:
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2563/20121208a2h.png)

Third some quick doodles trying to imagine how that same old pose would look from different angles (see... if I already had the skill I'm training for, these would look right instead of awkward :P ):
(http://imageshack.us/a/img41/4249/20121208b1.png)

And fourth, oldschool flat drawing practice from reference photo without any construction practice involved (failed to capture her likeness again, I blame a lack of practice ^^):

process video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0U2hq13tw

result:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img29/5092/20121208ldp.png)

And finally another deskshot (with a new solution for fixing the camera in a place where it doesn't get in the way):
(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/6052/20121208ws.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: r1k on December 09, 2012, 07:08:08 am
one thing thats making it look awkward is that youre outlining the teeth too darkly.  Here I sampled the color between the teeth and put it on her cheeck and nose.  Its only about as dark as the shadow  on her nose.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/9656/teeththing.png)
the teeth and mouth also arent really conforming to the angle the head is tilting, nor is the nose actually.  Remember the mouth eyes and nose are all going to be at the same angle.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/6899/faceangles.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 11, 2012, 08:48:54 am
Yes, the mouth is the one part which is more off than everything else. I wonder if that's due to the paper being slightly rotated without me noticing while I was working on it. Hm, but even with rotated paper it should have been possible to get the angle right by comparing against other angles and lines which were already drawn at that point.

Haven't drawn much the past two days (not feeling too well, headaches, arm and shoulder pain... blah excuses!).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 11, 2012, 10:03:46 pm
roughly eyeballed from random posemaniacs.com poses:
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7991/20121211.png)

edit, well seems like imageshack considered it to be pornographic  :lol:
uploaded again to private webspace:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2012_12_11.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 13, 2012, 11:18:31 pm
With only a few minutes each day, little to no progress is being made: (refs: first (http://artists.pixelovely.com/wordpress/wp-content/themes/drawing-child/images/tools/figuredrawing/figure-17-1303869725.jpg), second (http://artists.pixelovely.com/wordpress/wp-content/themes/drawing-child/images/tools/figuredrawing/figure-1-1303874380.jpg))
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2012_12_12_13.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 15, 2012, 02:59:39 pm
20% constructed, 80% invented, 100% distorted  :blind:

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5893/20121215.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on December 15, 2012, 05:16:33 pm
That one looks nice, I like the green color. What are you using to draw your lines?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 15, 2012, 06:31:30 pm
That one looks nice, I like the green color. What are you using to draw your lines?
Thanks. For the lines I'm using blacklead pencils from Faber-Castell. They come in various levels of soft/hardness. The green is from some cheap colored pencil by an unheard of brand called Fantasia Colors.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 17, 2012, 10:03:50 pm
Tried the class mode of that page wishie linked to earlier (looks like the time limit in each is giving me a hard time trying to finish anything):
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2012_12_17.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 18, 2012, 10:25:56 pm
Can't ever finish any drawing in the given time limit.

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2012_12_18.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cage on December 19, 2012, 02:00:42 am
Okay, guess it's time to post my struggles ;)

I'm trying to get the general idea right for now, not going into details too much.

I'm building upon Loomis' framework, references from posemaniacs or photos

(http://i.imgur.com/8zQ5d.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/K2EFd.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/kxdvo.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/R4mM6.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/npmR8.jpg)

The waist and pelvis areas are most problematic for me I guess, tried to substitute the pelvis discs with just a block and I think it worked better in some of the drawings, but I think I should try to use the discs either way, since their idea is closer to actual skeleton.

Anatomy aside, I still can't get a good feel of 3d forms in general - when drawing simple 3d primitives I still end up with distortion and crooked angles, and any attempts at foreshortening without any reference end up in total failures :( Any advice on this?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: r1k on December 19, 2012, 08:42:42 am
I was trying the 2nd website wishie posted, but all the times seem to be off for me.  atleast for the longer poses I noticed them only lasting about half of what theyre supposed to.  Anyone else have this issue?  MAybe Ill post my stuff later but I cant scan it right now.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 19, 2012, 10:11:17 pm
Anatomy aside, I still can't get a good feel of 3d forms in general - when drawing simple 3d primitives I still end up with distortion and crooked angles, and any attempts at foreshortening without any reference end up in total failures :( Any advice on this?
I guess it just takes a lot of time and practice until one can accurately render 3D volumes from scratch. I too am struggling with that.

For foreshortening without reference, there's a constructional approach in which you draw the object from a simple side view first and then use parallel lines emerging from key points to be able to tell where these key points would end up when foreshortening the depth of the side view into a new depth which goes "into the paper".

Here's a primitive example I just drew illustrating that:
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7954/20121219fs.png)

I was trying the 2nd website wishie posted, but all the times seem to be off for me.  atleast for the longer poses I noticed them only lasting about half of what theyre supposed to.  Anyone else have this issue?  MAybe Ill post my stuff later but I cant scan it right now.
Had not measured the times while I was drawing but sometimes it felt like some poses didn't stay as long as they should have which I attributed to losing the feeling for time while drawing... odd.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 20, 2012, 10:07:48 pm
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2012_12_20.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on December 30, 2012, 12:44:56 pm
Been slacking over the holidays, slowly resuming studies.

Drawn from inaccurate clay skull model:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9784/2012122930.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on January 01, 2013, 11:55:34 am
New year, same problem, the time is never sufficient to make correct measurements and always runs out while I'm in the middle of the rendering phase.  :P

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_01_01.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Lachie Dazdarian on January 02, 2013, 09:38:48 pm
The last body reminds me of my girlfriend. Mmm....
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ashbad on January 02, 2013, 09:51:48 pm
Does anyone have any good resources targeted towards facial anatomy construction?  I'm finding posemaniacs wonderful in covering many other aspects but definitely not that.  I've definitely produced a few pages of studies so far, but nothing huge -- mostly just modeling certain parts of the body that I don't understand at all in different angles, such as ears.  Hopefully I'll soon have something worth C+C here this week.

The last body reminds me of my girlfriend. Mmm....

Sounds like someone's going to have an "anatomy study" tonight :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on January 03, 2013, 11:27:56 pm
Lachie, heh, has she been posing for that site?

Ashbad, read Andrew Loomis "Drawing The Head And Hands" or start with "Fun With A Pencil" for a less technical approach towards head/face construction.

Todays doodles (the time limit, it does not like me but I think I'm actually making progress though when I compare the logged times and earlier doodles, it seems that my doodles in the 5 to 11 minute range are getting better... better as in, more correct (still off but more correct) in less time).

These copies are somehow distracting me a bit from the goal of gaining a better understanding of bulk/volumes though since I'm not constructing and just trying to quickly capture what is seen within the given time limit.

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_01_03.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on January 19, 2013, 11:29:10 pm
Dennis, this is good work. You will find that you will continue to have that problem for the rest of your artistic career. You will always have multiple skills that are lagging behind the others and it is difficult to choose the strategy in which you deal with them. I'm having problems with it too, currently.

some hands and such:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/img002-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on January 25, 2013, 09:39:33 am
Not quite daily's. I don't like feet.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/img001-1.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/img002-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on January 30, 2013, 07:46:13 pm
Dennis, this is good work. You will find that you will continue to have that problem for the rest of your artistic career. You will always have multiple skills that are lagging behind the others and it is difficult to choose the strategy in which you deal with them. I'm having problems with it too, currently.
The main problem is distractions and too many options/activities which beg for my attention. There are always 100 different things I'd like to pursue and I never find the discipline to follow only one of them at a time. I also don't have an "artistic career", never had an art job, never made a single cent from anything I've created.

I had a good run with that last streak of almost daily practice sessions which went on for a couple of weeks but as always I eventually ran out of steam, this time it was caused by having to stay sick in bed for a week. During that week I didn't feel like drawing anything and afterwards I somehow didn't pick up the pencils again either... weird. Currently addicted to Starcraft II again, so I've got nothing new to show. :(
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on January 31, 2013, 01:45:09 am
By artistic career I merely meant the time in your life you dedicate to art. For me I don't think it's a discipline problem, but more of a paralysis. Theres so many things I need to work on, how do I choose?

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/img0021.jpg)

edit: I could totally hijack this thread with seminude drawings of me if I so desired:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/anatresize_zpsbdc7cde8.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cage on February 07, 2013, 11:16:12 pm
Grown tired of posemaniacs for a while, so I'm using the stocks from deviantart for reference.

Some more of my figures:
(http://i.imgur.com/YmurOd0.jpg)

Still the same problematic areas: hips/pelvis, neck, hands and breasts obviously

I did some muscle/bones drawing in the meantime - think I have a bit more idea what actually I'm constructing than before.

It's still a long road! :)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on April 29, 2013, 09:11:05 am
Cage: Those are some nice and solid drawings, keep it up. I have a hard time with hips too, one of the most complicated structures of the human body other than the torso imo, but we see torso's all the time making them easier to draw at will.

Something of anatomical interest; you guys know me and arms:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg310/Chriskhaos/img001-3_zps57a23440.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on April 29, 2013, 10:41:02 am
Lovely studies. The underarm parts, the armpit at extension etc always give me trouble.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 07, 2013, 08:31:56 pm
It's been a while...  hoping to get back up to speed and do regular studies again.

Got a HD capable Webcam for the main purpose of recording myself drawing and then later analyze it to see issues, also to document my progress (nothing more motivating than going back every now and then to see the improvements made over a longer period of time).

drawing/eyeballing practice from photo ( process video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lVDTiTCvo0 )
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8984/osvs.png)

Right arms seems a bit too big, face is way off from the reference, especially the mouth and nose region. Still felt good to be drawing again.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 13, 2013, 05:34:50 pm
Drawn from memory. Long breaks without studies ==> back to square one. At least my mind remembered the count of eyes on a human head correctly.

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6651/nc2c.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 18, 2013, 09:29:30 am
couple of random head constructions from scratch ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrvcTlnMfmA ):
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6656/7ls.png)

some sketches using the 30min class mode from http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/ :
(the time limit never seems to be sufficient for me to finish/observe anything accurately (which I find a bit frustrating))
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_07_18anatomy.png)
 


Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 19, 2013, 09:20:36 am
...and sometimes, longer time, seems to be detrimental to my perception of proportions...

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_07_19anatomy.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mathias on July 21, 2013, 12:02:26 am
(http://i.imgur.com/dhsbAPg.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on July 21, 2013, 04:56:00 am
(http://puu.sh/3HT9O.png)

Hopefully going to be the beginning of a journey to learn anatomy. Anyways 10 minutes, no refs and using just 3 on hand reddish colors for muscles stuff. The upper body if you can't tell.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 21, 2013, 07:55:00 am
Mr. Fahrenheit: The study of anatomy is a very rewarding journey; having a command over representing the human form is such a great thing for an artist to hold. However, a 10 minute study in pixel art is not a way I would recommend going about it!

Here's a pixel edit:
(http://i.imgur.com/0cFHgla.png)

and a quick paint over of that edit:
(http://i.imgur.com/ws8nDTQ.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on July 21, 2013, 01:19:38 pm
Would you say Loomis' Figure drawing book is a good idea for beginners?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 21, 2013, 08:12:57 pm
I'd say a good idea for beginners is to bust out the pencils and start drawing. I used to buy lots of instructional books in the past but rarely took the time to read them, much less memorize and apply the knowledge contained within. For me, there only seems to be one way to get better and that's regular practice. A couple of weeks/months of no practice and my mind forgets everything. But yes, books are nice, if used as a supplement/reference when I'm stuck. Loomis' Figure Drawing For All It's Worth has plenty of pretty drawings in it. :crazy: (I bet Loomis didn't get as skilled as he was by just reading books though.)

my current goal is to develop a subconscious understanding of proportion, ignoring details for the most part for now, couple of 120s studies:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_07_21anatomy.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 22, 2013, 12:23:44 am
Would you say Loomis' Figure drawing book is a good idea for beginners?

Yes, I think it's a great idea. read and copy the diagrams, and then utilize the models and methods he does in your own drawings.  :y:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on July 22, 2013, 08:04:54 pm
120s  each, I still don't always manage to finish in time and odd perspectives (with lots of foreshortening) are giving me trouble:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_07_22anatomy.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mathias on July 29, 2013, 04:57:45 pm
Dennis, way to go for persevering in your studies (unlike me). Keep it up! I like seeing your progress.

If you can't finish the sketch in 120sec, why not just pause it? What's wrong with that? The goal isn't speed sketching, it's learning anat. Just a thought.

I really want to add snat sketches to my daily practices . . . might use that site.

Question - how do you feel, personally, that you've improved since you've been doing all these study rounds?



Ryu, good paint-over. You articulated the face extremely well. Most realistic human countenance I've probably ever seen, brah.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on July 29, 2013, 10:14:11 pm

Ryu, good paint-over. You articulated the face extremely well. Most realistic human countenance I've probably ever seen, brah.

Thank you. It takes years of study to articulate the facial expressions in all of their subtlety; I'm particularly proud of that rendition.  :hehe:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 01, 2013, 12:04:22 pm
Dennis, way to go for persevering in your studies (unlike me). Keep it up! I like seeing your progress.

If you can't finish the sketch in 120sec, why not just pause it? What's wrong with that? The goal isn't speed sketching, it's learning anat. Just a thought.

I really want to add snat sketches to my daily practices . . . might use that site.

Question - how do you feel, personally, that you've improved since you've been doing all these study rounds?
The truth is, I don't know what I'm doing anymore and I've lost track of the main goal. I'm in some strange brain-off mode, hoping to improve just by regular practice without putting much thought into it, with no intention to memorize the names of any muscles and bones. I'd like for my subconsciousness to assimilate a natural understanding of how things/people look. The hope is that something like that will come auto-magically just by drawing regularly. I'll keep doing this for some time and see how it works. If it doesn't I can still open the books and take a more scholarly approach (which I think of as not being fun enough to pursue for the moment).

How do I feel about progress/improvement? That's a tough question. I often feel like I'm not making any progress at all and the breaks in between are so long that each time I pick up the pencil again, I feel like I'm starting all over and it feels like I'm dumb and that I know nothing about anything. But when I look at my older drawings and then at some newer drawings, I can see it's not true that there's no progress at all. One thing I noticed is that some of my more recent drawings which were done in less time than some of the old ones, look more dynamic/natural/alive than the older ones, so I seem to have leveled up the "more essentials in less time" skill a little bit, improving the capability to capture the important bits faster without lingering on details.

more sketches:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_01anatomy.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 02, 2013, 11:47:20 am
Did some 30s studies of model Chanon from http://www.proko.com/poses/
after watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVxvFTYz210 .

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_02anatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 03, 2013, 12:15:15 pm
more 30s studies, this time referenced from Veronica from http://www.proko.com/poses/

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_03anatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 04, 2013, 04:57:53 pm
Todays 30s and 60s studies referenced from Aaron and Marcia from http://www.proko.com/poses/ .

Aaron 30s:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_04anatomy16gray.png)


Marcia 60s:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_04banatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on August 06, 2013, 10:26:27 am
Trying to move away from contour to rhythm:
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2013_08_05gesture16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Conzeit on September 21, 2013, 05:19:42 am
So, made a little study....it's not much but it's my first post at this topic, that should be good right? :p
(http://craftmused.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/130920sevenheads.png)
Here I made a little figure study after watching the lastest Proko. Honestly I just opened Loomis' heads proportion figures page because I'm never aware of how many heads tall my figures are, so I drew these two dudes beside the 7 and half headed one. They look a bit idealized even though Loomis says they're regular, it's actually more like 7 heads right?

BTW, I crossposted this at Crimson Daggers forum http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/thread-3993-post-45884.html#pid45884 which is looking pretty promising as a Pixelation for conceptart to me right now =)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on October 08, 2013, 12:28:00 am
If you slowed down and took the time for some longer, meditated studies, I think you could combine those aspects with your very fluid, immediate work and create some very powerful stuff. Your desire for gesture, animation, and life in your drawings is insatiable, so you need not worry about " losing" it and creating "boring" pictures ( I only say this because many people in a similar boat feel that rendering and attention to detail automatically does that)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cyangmou on October 30, 2013, 11:21:38 pm
working on proportions, female one's for the beginning.
~10'-15' each

note to myself: don't take photographs at midnight.

(http://www.abload.de/img/femaleproportionstgp2r.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on November 30, 2013, 01:36:45 am
I'd say it's spot on, Cyangmou. Good readability, fluid poses.


It's also been very interesting to see the progress made by Dennis on his sketches while going through the thread. Splendid job; it actually made me want to go and do a skull construction. Haven't done those in a while.

Might just eyeball from the Kirsten Dunst picture posted here and snag two birds in one stone.


I am not one to go and calculate everything to see if it fits into Loomis' measurements or anything though, so let's see how that turns out.  :-X


And so that I don't have to make a thread over at Pixel Art.. What do you guys think this pose here is communicating to you? It's a character of my project that already has an intended description, but I'd rather see what it feels like to others.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2ls8dh5.jpg)


In fact, seeing as it's a topic I rarely see much off, are there any basic guidelines on the topic of expressions in anatomy? I'd think it's an important one to learn. To have your anatomy reflect an intent or emotion for whatever purpose you give it.

For an example, a common standard. A main character should have a very outward pose, communicating the willpower necessary to embark on his quest.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Helm on November 30, 2013, 02:43:23 am
It doesn't say much as it is. Perhaps reticence, unease, something like that. I'd take more rendering and colors to set a mood. I do like it and I think it's well-measured for what you have so far. What emotion are you going for? I would drastically reduce that thing where the feet point inwards because it's a bit of an unpleasant japanese shorthand for 'shy girl' and I'm not sure people actually do it (as drastic as what you show here, at least). But as with all such critique, it has a bias and you should feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

As to your question, that's what figure drawing is. Studying real human beings in positions that signify this or that emotion. If you have the time and means I wholeheartedly suggest working from a model. If you can direct them when they pose, all the better.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on November 30, 2013, 09:01:42 am
Quote
Perhaps reticence, unease, something like that.

Excellent. It's along those lines.
We have someone here who gets swept by the plot in the first part of a story. It's meant to be quite steampunk- In fact, the very same style as the Professor in my avi. 

The piece itself has gone far since the last post. I can post the process so far in steps, animated in .gif form, if anyone's interested.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/k532x5.jpg)

I should thank Cyangmou for inspiration- When I saw the Sir Gregory and Freya post, It kinda made me want to expand mine to this size as well.



Quote
As to your question, that's what figure drawing is. Studying real human beings in positions that signify this or that emotion. If you have the time and means I wholeheartedly suggest working from a model. If you can direct them when they pose, all the better.

I feel like most of this seems forgotten in many sketches I see lately, and methods of teaching. Especially in the gist that is mechanically constructing a pose, or copying them down from sites like posemaniacs. It's as if the drawings had no essence to them, because of the left-brained focus they're given.

I can see how directly drawing from a model can help; you can really tell how drawings done like this seem to have a life of their own. Their gestures rich in flavor.

Heck, I would try figure drawing directly, today, with someone who's with me, if the weather wasn't so freaking chilly on this side of Morocco. Posing naked on *2-*6 celsius isn't nice, and these arabs don't have any sort of room heaters in the hostel im staying.  :-\
On second thought, I question the very existence of heating systems here in it's entirety.

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Kasumi on November 30, 2013, 10:19:07 am
The piece itself has gone far since the last post. I can post the process so far in steps, animated in .gif form, if anyone's interested.
I love process animations. I am interested.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on December 02, 2013, 03:28:33 pm
Here's the latest of the latest-

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2vn1bw3.jpg)

Im not even started on her breathing mask apparatus, needed for the harsh environments that abound in the context of the story. Not to mention any and all steampunk devices I can fit there.  :D


I think I'll post the process .gif later on, once this starts to look finished, or I get tired of it. Better to give you guys the complete steps, rather than only showing the first half of the process. 
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on February 02, 2014, 10:54:23 am
Picked up the pencil again. The quality of my lines, proportions and rhythms varies and swings as heavy as my mood. Nothing I can do except accepting that.  :)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2014_01_29_02_01anatomy16gray.png)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on February 04, 2014, 03:07:08 am
Don't mind your work changing with your mood. Expression is what the game is about.

What are your goals in terms of being able draw the human form? you may have talked about it earlier in the thread. I've seen you do a lot of this gestural and proportional work which is great, but I can't help but wonder if it's time to settle down and just commit 10-20 hours on a well modeled and rendered figure for you to understand the more subtle things, and increase your skill set in a different way.

Of course, at the hardcore art studios, the suggestion is usually flipped. People that do that kind of work need to do more of what you are doing here.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on February 04, 2014, 08:38:43 am
The ultimate goal, which I have come to believe will be a life long journey, is to be able to draw any expression of the human body in any angle without relying on a reference.

I am following Stan Prokopenkos (proko.com) figure drawing tutorials. He says the gesture is the most important thing to study at first and after a lot of frustrating personal experience at trying to draw the human figure without gesture by just making slow and stiff constructions or copies out of thin air, I completely agree with the gesture being the most important thing.

Without the skill of getting the gesture right it is difficult to make a slow study where the individual pieces do not fall apart. The gesture is what ties them together creating a believable expression of the body where everything is just in the place where it belongs and where it feels right.

I am not capable of getting the gesture and the proportions right yet (I feel I am getting closer), so I first need to train that skill before I can move on to constructing simple volumes around the gesture which will be the next step.

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2014_02_02_02_03anatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on February 05, 2014, 10:03:02 am
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2014_02_04_02_05anatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Pixelkh on February 05, 2014, 03:14:24 pm
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/036/2/d/sketchbook_figures__xvi_by_pixelkh1-d756e8x.jpg)
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/036/2/0/sketchbook_figures__xvii_by_pixelkh1-d756e9a.jpg)
(http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/036/c/d/sketchbook_figures__xx_by_pixelkh1-d756eae.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on February 07, 2014, 06:25:45 am
(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2014_02_05anatomybean16gray.png)

(http://www.dennisbusch.de/shared/drawings/2014_02_06anatomy16gray.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 03, 2014, 06:56:26 pm
Once again, hello everyone.

I was just wondering if this looked allright?

(http://oi58.tinypic.com/mhf6gi.jpg)

Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Pixelkh on March 03, 2014, 08:44:29 pm
She has pretty broad shoulders for a lady in comparison with the hips. Could be right, but I'm not sure.

Legs seem fine in general, might take a look at the tibia.
If I take a look at my own leg, it seems it doesn't go down straight from the knee but bends a little outwards.

Pose isn't very dynamic, but I guess that's a choice. I wouldn't stand like that comfortably irl, but I'm not a lady and I don't really know the context.

I guess she will be clothed later?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 03, 2014, 09:02:21 pm
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure the body shape was good.

I went out for a walk to keep my eyes off of her for a bit. Now that I come back, I can see that her arms are way too big for the original aims. Should be an easy fix.

A male version is to come in a few.

They're both to be in a classical-esque ''ideal'' anatomy for a pseudo victorian steampunk era.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 03, 2014, 11:31:22 pm
Current one

(http://oi60.tinypic.com/k9gbip.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: wolfenoctis on March 04, 2014, 05:04:39 pm
Nice work Vagrant, some thoughts on the body:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/11kbhq9.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: cels on March 04, 2014, 06:09:27 pm
My amateur opinion is that Vagrant's version looks like she's cautiously moving forward with a gun, whereas Wolfenoctis' version looks like she's standing confidently, observing something. Of course, the facial expression certainly contributes to my impression, but it seems reflected in the different pose as Vagrant's model is holding a weapon in front of her, shoulders facing more towards the viewer and her right knee is pointing in the same direction as she's holding the weapon, which gives a sense of direction. Wolfenoctis' version has the hand over the opposite thigh, and both her shoulders and her knees are facing in the same direction as she's facing. She looks more static.

I'm probably wrong about this, or perhaps it was a conscious decision on your part, but I'm not sure that the edit reflects what Vagrant was trying to accomplish. Maybe you just wanted to show a different pose, but I thought I would point this out, just in case.

Incidentally, I liked the broad shoulders of the original. She looked like a beautiful, powerful and strong Scandinavian woman. Now she's more petite and French-looking. There's no love for the plus size women in computer games these days  ;D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: wolfenoctis on March 04, 2014, 06:54:36 pm
My edit is soley made to illustrate what I think are the anatomical and proportional errors in the original, I wasn't trying to make any suggestion as to the feel of the character, just the body itself and its proportions. I don't know what Vagrant's intent with the character is, also technically my edit has more muscle mass and wider shoulders, I think its just the hair makes the head look bigger.  ;D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 04, 2014, 08:28:34 pm
Interesting perspective there Wolfe. I'll study it thoroughly.

Also, forgive me Cels.. The intention was no doubt to go petite French-like, since this is precisely the style I want reflected in the steampunk environment. As well as British likenesses, no doubt.

There could be exceptions, and no doubt some strong women types, but we'll see as the months roll by. There'll be plenty of these coming all the time, and even more so when actual development begins early 2015~


The full-body poses might be used for character dialogue, and/or character customization screens. Think Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance style for dialogue, or like Cyangmou's recent gothic dieselpunk mock-ups. Maybe we'll use the top part of the figures only, like in Final Fantasy Tactics. Just a face next to a textbox, but who knows.

Point being, they can be dynamic, but they don't have to. However it's an excellent practice, that can greatly enhance the character's personality. This is definetly the next step for me in regards to anatomy. Pose flavor.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: |||| on March 04, 2014, 10:18:48 pm
I like how Vagrant's version has the shoulders more twisted forward.. it adds a subtle flavor.
But her right arm; perhaps both arms, look a bit awkward. I would recommend re-gesture drawing them at this point.
Make both look more relaxed if you can.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: cels on March 04, 2014, 10:44:29 pm
@Wolfenoctis: It makes sense then! And spot on about the muscles / shoulders / hair  ;D

@ Vagrant: Well, I'm sad to hear that, but I was actually going to write "British" before I wrote "French", so I think you nailed the ethnicity at least!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 06, 2014, 11:14:01 pm
Latest

(http://i57.tinypic.com/1fk3zc.jpg)

I could've stopped there and kept making the clothes, but.. Just for the sake of anatomy, I bettered this one. It's important, as I'll be doing so many more soon.

Now it's a scandinavian/british mix.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Vagrant on March 10, 2014, 08:10:32 am
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2qiodav.jpg)

Two more now
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on March 11, 2014, 09:15:52 pm
Crotch moustache FTW!  :lol:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Cure on May 18, 2014, 11:55:05 pm
I assume this thread is still kickin', and hasn't been completely usurped by the Daily Sketch thread.
Here are some sketches from my figure drawing class. I try to go once a week. We start out with 1-2 minute poses, then move on to 15/20 minute poses later on.
(http://imgur.com/vi3gua4.jpg)  (http://imgur.com/WYmw4f7.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/Yq6BOD1.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/vMCgnBE.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/81GAmY1.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on July 07, 2014, 10:10:25 pm
Did some quick poses from posemaniacs:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13350050/Junk/daily%20poses1.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: DatMuffinMan on July 10, 2014, 11:31:08 pm
Also did a couple of posemaniacs sketches. first time trying anatomy anyway, thought I should get better at it. Do you guys have any other resources (other than loomis books) for getting better at anatomy in general? thanks :)

(http://i.imgur.com/nJBGTXo.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 32 on July 11, 2014, 01:03:33 am
The best recourse in the world is finding a local life drawing class. They can be quite cheap if you find the right ones, 5 or 10 dollars for a few hours untutored  :y:.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: DatMuffinMan on July 11, 2014, 01:56:32 am
another one

(http://i.imgur.com/5uOpwcB.png)

The best recourse in the world is finding a local life drawing class. They can be quite cheap if you find the right ones, 5 or 10 dollars for a few hours untutored  :y:.

I used to take drawing lessons, but didn't find them very helpful, since I could learn about as much by practicing online and getting feedback from others.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 32 on July 11, 2014, 02:58:35 am
Not necessarily lessons, just going in and drawing a real person for a few hours. I do classes at university but there's also a couple of student run sessions where everyone just chips in to pay the model, and is open to the public, I'm sure you could find something similar.

The gap between drawing a real 3d object and something that's already been translated into 2d is immense. Plus if you find the right place everyone there is learning as well so you can still get the feedback in a more immediate way. And you'll also see a variety of different body types and real people posing in a way that is actually natural. Posemanics and photo reference are great but they've got nothing on reality when you're talking really learning the human form.

Your drawings here tell me you don't really need to READ about anatomy, you just need to practice, and in my opinion that's the best way to do it. I found this (http://www.alienthink.com/) quite useful when I first started but I never got past the skeleton stage. I think it's quite affordable compared to other resources as well.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 32 on November 07, 2014, 02:23:55 pm
Just finishing up my degree, thought it would be fun to look back and see my progress with life drawing. This is two drawings from my first day vs two from the past month. 3 years and 150+ hours of life drawing. Still a long way to go but it's hard to be unhappy with that kind of improvement.

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/The_32nd_day/before_after_zps7c08a5ed.jpg)

Probably around the same time for all drawings, 20-30 mins. Sorry about the double post but it's been a while.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Gil on November 16, 2014, 08:57:15 pm
This is where I'm currently at with face studies. I can do one of these in about 120 seconds. These are all obviously without reference. Trying to teach my brain to construct faces, without idealizing each feature. Once I get this good, I'm going to try to do emotions and after that, likeness over different angles.

Ballpoint marker on course paper

(http://i.imgur.com/D8Eb7At.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: rappdg on January 27, 2015, 10:24:55 am
Here is mine:

Trying to focus on the face first since the body is way hard to do.

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/25rh1lu.jpg)

Reference is from Alex Ross's painting (Dude who paints super heroes).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on March 01, 2015, 06:30:42 pm
Does anyone know of a book that shows photos of people walking with like a grid background to tell distances properly? IIRC It was pretty old. If not, does anyone know where I could find something of that sort...  :'(. Its for a math paper due tomorrow  :-[.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on March 01, 2015, 06:50:54 pm
Does anyone know of a book that shows photos of people walking with like a grid background to tell distances properly? IIRC It was pretty old. If not, does anyone know where I could find something of that sort...  :'(. Its for a math paper due tomorrow  :-[.
Would an animated photo help? http://youtu.be/G8Veye-N0A4
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on March 01, 2015, 09:44:29 pm
Thanks dennis that really helped!  ;D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on March 02, 2015, 12:36:20 am
I am glad, so a tiny part of the A+ you will get for that paper is mine! :crazy:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Mr. Fahrenheit on March 02, 2015, 02:33:01 am
I am glad, so a tiny part of the A+ you will get for that paper is mine! :crazy:

I better hope so D: here is a tantalizing glimpse of my paper about the square cube law! (I didn't use that exact video, but one by the same guy): (http://puu.sh/giIw6/20d463e9f8.png)

I would've spoilered that if I could find the button, and sorry about the offtopic, I'll stop now...  :blind:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Friend on March 02, 2015, 11:04:15 pm
what do you all find to be the best approach to not just learning the anatomy but how to draw it in all kinds of poses and situations?

Secondly, as a beginner, can anyone with good proficiency suggest how to begin?  Do I emulate photos?  Do I create my own pieces?  When making my own, how can I develop an eye to see my own flaws, especially when to me it looks solid?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ¬me on April 11, 2015, 12:34:41 am
First ever attempt at a skull today. I used the loomis method for the proportions of the head, but the chin doesn't seem low enough. The face looks like it needs to be longer to be realistic. It has a more cutesie feel, but I think I might actually like that.
(http://i.imgur.com/3NPE0y8m.jpg)
First anatomy post! Yay!  ;D Hopefully I can get into the swing of things and post one of these at least once a week. Comments and critique appreciated.

Edit: the eye sockets are also much to high. The line cutting through them should be the brow line
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Night on April 11, 2015, 01:35:56 pm
As you noted, the face does indeed need to be longer in order to be proportionally accurate; the forehead especially (not only the jaw).
One major problem is the connection you have drawn between the temporal and zygomatic, in reality there's a hole between the connection, which creates a tube-like bone on the side of the skull.
(http://i.imgur.com/xm6BWBF.gif)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ¬me on April 11, 2015, 09:12:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/toxdC61m.jpg)
New one. Brows are in a better spot now. I tried to use a photo of a real skull instead of just images in my anatomy books, but I wasn't as focused today, so I just drew without looking at reference as much as I should have.

The red lines above and below are where I feel like the skull should be at height wise. I'm not quite ready to give up on the Loomis proportions since it seems like they should work and because everyone considers the methods in his book to be great learning tools. I just don't know why it doesnt seem to work on my skull. Obviously your skull can't be longer than your head.

Here's a sort of ok image of the proportions
(http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/images/head-loomis-ball.jpg)

I mainly followed proko's instructions in
How to Draw the Head - Front View: http://youtu.be/z4ZLkyTuX_w

Final notes for this- the Zygomatic process looks better, but maybe out to far, and the top sides of the cranium seem to angular or bumpy. Should the eye sockets be smaller?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Night on April 11, 2015, 09:58:53 pm
You can't directly apply the proportions of the face to those of the skull, lots of things are totally different; and the main proportions you're going for (the roughly 3 noses in a face rule) isn't very applicable for the skull, considering flesh adds a lot of different variables to the face.

The main problem is the width of skull. The eye sockets are far too big, and also too far out from each other. Fixing that will pretty much solve the problem with the proportions I feel (perhaps narrow down the cranial a bit too, to fit with the smaller orbit size).
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ¬me on April 14, 2015, 06:52:31 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/RyVIydUm.jpg)
Bleh.  :blind: little better proportion wise, but the shading I did on the last one looked waaaay cooler. Didnt get much/any sleep, so I was lazy with that and with references again. I must not have been paying very much attention to what I was doing because usually i scribble notes all over the page while I draw. Things I like, don't like, need to improve, stuff I notice I'm doing or not doing, anything that seems off, etc. None today, at least not till I was done and noticed they weren't there. Hopefully I will be more focused when drawing the next one.

You can't directly apply the proportions of the face to those of the skull, lots of things are totally different; and the main proportions you're going for (the roughly 3 noses in a face rule) isn't very applicable for the skull, considering flesh adds a lot of different variables to the face.
Shouldn't it still work as a rough guide though? I mean, muscle doesn't add anything height wise and the features remain in the same general places as a blank, emotionless face. The nose is over the nasel cavity, the teeth go in the mouth, and the eyes aren't going to leave their sockets.
The main problem is the width of skull. The eye sockets are far too big, and also too far out from each other. Fixing that will pretty much solve the problem with the proportions I feel (perhaps narrow down the cranial a bit too, to fit with the smaller orbit size).
Completely agree that the eye sockets were/are the main problem. Fixed? How else can I improve?
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Night on April 15, 2015, 06:40:10 pm
You really should look up some references and analyse the skull, study it, make your observations about it, etc. And preferably real-life skulls ,as that'll give you a really good understanding of what's going on(if you look up "3D CT scans skull" or something like that, you'll find plenty of useful images I believe, aside from some regular photos of a skull).

A rough guide, perhaps.
Muscle does add height (or length rather), in a sense, especially to the chin( this is very visible from a side view). With the nose (or at least what you would mostly consider the nose) you have to keep in mind that it's all basically cartilage and fat. If you look at a skull's profile you can see that there is a small tail-like protrusion under the nasal cavity, to which the cartilage attaches; so it is basically, in most people, just below the nasal cavity.
 The opening of the mouth, from my observation, tends to be on top of the upper teeth, rather than in between the teeth.
You got me with the eyes, they're pretty much in the middle of the eye socket.  :P

The length of the skull vertically seems proportionally alright right now, I feel that the main issue now is the whole maxilla-zygomatic connection area. I'm not exactly sure how to describe that connection, but think of the maxilla like something in the shape of a horseshoe, to which the zygomatic connects to, from the middle of the side (of the horseshoe) and to the front (I guess that what I take issue to right now is that the connection seems to be at the edge of the mouth, right before the teeth, while in reality it is not like that).

Here is an edit I did to one side of the skull, to my point a bit more clear.
(http://i.imgur.com/w48qUUj.gif)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: ¬me on April 15, 2015, 08:34:21 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/7JDTudQm.jpg)

Drew this before seeing your reply, but paying attention to the reference I did notice alot of what you said. The nasal cavity is a bit higher and the jaw is a bit lower to make room for the teeth. Also using my own face as reference, feeling where everything is in relation to the familier stuff on the surface. The whole thing still looks a tiny bit too short and wide, but overall  :y:

Thanks for all the help Night. I will post another soon
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Night on April 16, 2015, 12:19:44 pm
No problem, it's starting to look much better, good job!
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on October 16, 2015, 09:18:00 pm
been taking some figure drawing classes lately that focuses on "Force" (http://www.drawingforce.com/) drawing.  Here's a recent sketch: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13350050/Junk/figurestudy1.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on October 20, 2015, 02:30:15 am
more figure studies, focusing on force, roughly 3 min each:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13350050/Junk/figurestudy2.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Indigo on November 04, 2015, 01:02:23 am
more
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13350050/Junk/figurestudy3.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13350050/Junk/figurestudy4.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: tsej on June 19, 2016, 12:43:28 pm
Let's get it started. 

01
(http://i.imgur.com/y9n2Z5m.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Tuna Unleashed on June 21, 2016, 06:07:28 pm
I havent been keeping up with life drawing for the last few months but here's some recent stuff of mine (oof sorry about this fat post)
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/a31337f8388c4a55e99fac4078870102/tumblr_o43hu9Blir1rc9akio2_1280.png)(http://66.media.tumblr.com/0471ba25444bb390759cb75a51717384/tumblr_o43hu9Blir1rc9akio1_1280.png)(http://67.media.tumblr.com/f3d9c5a60417e00e34c171d2abf5e210/tumblr_o43hu9Blir1rc9akio3_1280.png)(http://67.media.tumblr.com/75b471b7b7f96863f99324c63a77a653/tumblr_o43hu9Blir1rc9akio4_1280.png)(http://66.media.tumblr.com/a5d26a71eb2ab3aa2a6615bee2c70821/tumblr_o43hu9Blir1rc9akio5_1280.png)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Blueschist on June 22, 2016, 04:21:18 am
(http://i.imgur.com/qMq9Fq3.png)
A wip piece, not currently pixel art but if I ever get around to cleaning it up it might become that. Any crit would be appreciated, but I am currently having the most trouble with the legs and her left arm (the one on our right), and critiques addressing those aspects would be especially great.
(http://i.imgur.com/bD1ueyz.png)
This is the reference image.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on June 23, 2016, 10:13:03 am
Good stuff Blueschist :] the arm and legs are quite ok, It will just take some finely tuned study of the anatomy in particular to pick up on some more subtle things you might be missing. Too loose right now to say anything is "wrong"

picarto chat pestered me to post more, so here's a drawing from school I did a couple weeks ago that went pretty well:

(http://i.imgur.com/vrAF3J7.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: 0xDB on June 29, 2016, 09:42:15 pm
picarto chat pestered me to post more
Picarto chat has done well to pester you with that request.  :D
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Souly on July 30, 2016, 07:45:31 am
Hey guys it's been a while.
Damn Ryumaru - You killing it as usual.

I've actually been doing a bunch of figure drawing lately. Did a figure session this Thursday.
(http://i.imgur.com/EtqHArR.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: CFKaligula on December 13, 2016, 03:56:06 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/TOThIMZ.png)

I am really eager to learn Figure and Gesture drawing.  I think you can see what i copied  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxC_YifXUAAvA1r.jpg:large).

I would greatly appreciate any feedback, I hope this thread is not dead :yell:
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Bak on December 15, 2016, 09:21:18 am
You should look up classic proportions, right now head is too big and palm is too small.
You should probably try first drawing from a real photo with similar pose. Capcom-anime style generally involves transforming real anatomy into the line composition.
Title: Re: Official Anatomy Thread
Post by: Ryumaru on February 16, 2017, 05:44:41 am
Of anatomical interest:

(http://i.imgur.com/jhl52Kt.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/g0z8vkN.jpg?1)