Pixelation
General => Challenges & Activities => Commercial Critique => Topic started by: Ryumaru on May 25, 2013, 08:37:49 pm
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For this challenge, we will especially be focusing on the limitations of the gameboy and it's 4 color grey palette. Whatever revamps you make should include a version with these 4 colors, as well as a palette swap that introduces hues you find pleasing.
If you are having trouble deciding what to revamp, how about tackling some of the pivotal screens of the game? Such as the battle screen, overworld, or the pokedex
Here is a rundown of the limitations:
- 4 grayscale hues ( black, 35 brightness, 65 brightness, white)
- 4 palette entries per 8x8 tile
- 3 palette entries per sprite ( with 1 reserved for transparency)
- 160x144 screen size
Battle:
(http://i.imgur.com/QMhUSch.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/dUaL84E.png)
Overworld:
(http://i.imgur.com/4JIKcOS.png) (http://i.imgur.com/liRUJv6.png)
Pokedex:
(http://i.imgur.com/qsJfct9.gif) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15588722/post/mewtwo.png)
Here is an example of my pokedex revamp:
(http://i.imgur.com/BtodYZA.gif)
HARD MODE: Think you could recreate the entire pokemon world in this amount of tilespace?
(http://i.imgur.com/eDi25e4.png)
wiki says that these are the palettes available for gameboy games being played on the gameboy color:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZUDSLpp.png)
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The screenshot you based it on has aspect ratio issues, it's not a 1:1 pixel ratio. Some pixels have been doubled.
(http://i.imgur.com/dUaL84E.png)(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9934/battlescreen_fight.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/QMhUSch.gif)(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9935/battlescreen_pokeball.gif)
So I tried to follow the 8x8 tiles for the gui.
Some things I tried to fix.
1. Margins, I removed the bottom part of the gui box to make more space around the text. I also re-arranged the name tags and the arrows.
2. Stronger font for better readability, I'm not sure it's more readable, but I think it sticks out more. Not entirely sure about this though.
3. Softer appearance with more AA and 4 tone palette for the GUI.
4. The :L5 text field can't really be placed anywhere else, so instead of wasting space I added 'level' for clarification. I think it looks more interesting, but it might just end up cluttering it.
5. I wanted pokeballs that looked more like actual pokeballs. Since I had to stick to the tiles I couldn't add any spacing in between.
The hp bars look a bit like windows progressbars, lol..
I think rounded looks better, but I wanted it to blend in with the GUI arrows.
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So I had a quick google around and found some other shot and fixed the Mewtwo Pokedex thing accordingly.
This should be correct, but please doublecheck, Ryu.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15588722/post/mewtwo.png)
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I'm not really sure if I am doing this right ???
(http://i.imgur.com/CtG2ZhK.png)
EDIT:
(http://i.imgur.com/zOObd98.png)
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Seiseki: That font is quite beautiful and fitting of the source. I also like the real pokeballs and don't think the lack of space between is a problem. the level 5 is a bit odd to me, but I think it's very subjective. Looks good! Below I had a throw at moving it further ( I also used some sprites from G/SC)
Ptoing: Thanks! It must have been the removal of the border that did it. I will replace all instances of that screenshot.
Related: Does anyone want to take a stab at making some nice, AAed fonts for us all to use in our pokevamps? :]
Yaomon17: YES! way to think outside the box a bit with a very unique GUI. However, I think the black text on the dark bg ( specifically fight, item, pkmn, and run) would be a bit hard to see on an actual gameboy screen. perhaps the lighter palette entry would be better, and then highlighted to white.
(http://i.imgur.com/fVMe2e7.gif)
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Higher res back sprites would've been so great. My guess is that it wasn't possible due to storage limitations for the GB cartridges.
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Way to think outside the box, quite bold design yaomon!
I don't think there's any transparency in the text though, nor any of the gui elements?
And levels for the pokemon go above 100, or at least to 100, right?
Also, you have to sets of fonts, one smaller one larger.
I'm not sure if that would be a problem. In my edit the level consists of 2 8x8 tiles.
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Is there transparency for the pokemon/trainer sprites?
If so then yes, that 4th one with stripes and shadow seems like a nice idea.
The shadow should use the darker gray though?
Also, good call on darkening the dialogue box when there is a popup, although it would add another set of dialogue box gui tiles.
I wonder about the hp bars, why didn't they make them a bit thicker? are they 4x1 due to memory constraints?
If they really had to be that cheap to save memory, then I get a feeling these edits are pushing it way beyond gameboy limits.
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Higher res back sprites would've been so great. My guess is that it wasn't possible due to storage limitations for the GB cartridges.
I've been trying to find out how much memory was available on the cart and if there was any space left over; I'm sure the smaller back sprites were done to save space, but I wonder if there was another way to conserve space or if there was any extra left over that would facilitate the higher res back sprites. Apparently, pokemon gold and silver were playable on an original gameboy and it was definitely a full color game. I know the cartridges would be different, but am skeptical that there would be that much difference to add 100 more pokemon with front and back sprites, and update the original 151 with higher res'd back sprites as well.
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Back sprites might be due to time constraints too.
It's also a cheap way make them feel bigger, since the outlines and everything is thicker.
I drew this pikachu earlier today, while glancing a bit at a reference.
It has a bunch of problems though, should have just drawn it from scratch after I figured out a better pose.
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9936/pika.png)
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Way to think outside the box, quite bold design yaomon!
I don't think there's any transparency in the text though, nor any of the gui elements?
And levels for the pokemon go above 100, or at least to 100, right?
Also, you have to sets of fonts, one smaller one larger.
I'm not sure if that would be a problem. In my edit the level consists of 2 8x8 tiles.
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Is there transparency for the pokemon/trainer sprites?
If so then yes, that 4th one with stripes and shadow seems like a nice idea.
The shadow should use the darker gray though?
Also, good call on darkening the dialogue box when there is a popup, although it would add another set of dialogue box gui tiles.
I wonder about the hp bars, why didn't they make them a bit thicker? are they 4x1 due to memory constraints?
If they really had to be that cheap to save memory, then I get a feeling these edits are pushing it way beyond gameboy limits.
The pokemon and trainer sprites use all for shades so I don't think they have transparency. I'm silly and will have to rethink my battle mock ups, I somehow was miscounting things 0.0 The thing under squirtle could be read as a shadow or as a plot of land like in ruby and sapphire. It was kept light so as to not take away priority from the sprites.
I doubt the thickness was due to memory constraints necessarily, there just isn't a lot of room on the screen. I could be wrong though.
I had that thought too, of time constraints for the back sprites. I think that is definitely something to keep in mind as a limiting factor for gamefreak: as for what it means to us, just keep it in the back of your head and pixel faster ;]
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The trainer sprite on the title screen has transparency though! (since the moving pokemons in the background go behind him)
What if both trainer and pokemon sprites use transparency instead of white? That would still mess up 90% of the pokemon though :D
Maybe some sort of half circle could be used below the sprite?
Would definitely be nice to find a way to get some perspective/environmental feel going.
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You're right, perhaps someone who knows about that can chime in. Perhaps a select portion of the sprite that only uses 3 colors has transparency?
some environment is definitely what the battle screens need. Perhaps something this-ish:
(http://i.imgur.com/1vwjQ3A.gif)
edit: I actually just confirmed that the trainer is indeed transparent in the title screen. The pokemon can be seen through the white parts of his sprite; it just happens so fast that it isn't very noticeable on such a small screen.
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Yeah, just a few tiles would add so much! Here's my take.
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9938/battle_screen_terrain.png)
(water looks sorta like goo and the rocks are a bit too dark though..)
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So.. is this actually still a draft? :D The palettes in the first post probably refer to the ones you could force over the 4 color gray palette of the GB. They would overwrite all sprites and tiles, so no room for different palettes in different sprites/tiles.
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So.. is this actually still a draft? :D The palettes in the first post probably refer to the ones you could force over the 4 color gray palette of the GB. They would overwrite all sprites and tiles, so no room for different palettes in different sprites/tiles.
I thought this was the real thing? :D
Didn't we already have a draft?
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So.. is this actually still a draft? :D The palettes in the first post probably refer to the ones you could force over the 4 color gray palette of the GB. They would overwrite all sprites and tiles, so no room for different palettes in different sprites/tiles.
Well, I don't know haha. It seems to be up and running, I just put it there as a disclaimer in case something needed to be changed. Yes, those palettes refer to the ones you could force over the original gameboy graphics... yet I wonder how the game was able to produce the different palettes that the pokemon front sprites have. The work arounds this game employed is really cool I just wish it was easier to find out how they did it 0.0
So.. is this actually still a draft? :D The palettes in the first post probably refer to the ones you could force over the 4 color gray palette of the GB. They would overwrite all sprites and tiles, so no room for different palettes in different sprites/tiles.
I thought this was the real thing? :D
Didn't we already have a draft?
traditionally commercial critiques have one thread dedicated entirely to critiquing the game and discussing it in depth, and another in which there is an activity to remake graphics or create something in the style of, etc.
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Ah, by the way I made this for use as a banner, unless you have already made one? :)
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9939/pokemon_cc_banner.gif)
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No I haven't. That's awesome :D
Moderators: if you think these threads are ready, feel free to move them to the CC area and put up the banner Seiseki made!
Also, I just noticed your little battle turfs, they are awesome! it's amazing what a couple 16x16 tiles can do. They could be reused in the overworld map so as not to be a waste of resources and just the suggestion of different areas would give a level of variety to the battles.
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Thanks! I'm just a bit worried that its getting too cluttered.
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I think it's easy to find it cluttered because we're so used to the sparse blank white of the original. Take a second and try and think if you played pokemon for the first time and saw that screen; would you think it's cluttered then?
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I think this screenshot of route 1 should be more suitable for this activity. It has trees in it, and we have a more interesting perspective on Red.
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2273/image5lw.png)
Also, the thing I dislike about the gameboy palette: If you're familiar with the fact that human eyes are more sensitive to higher values, the available gray colors are a bit dark. There's a stronger contrast between the lightest two values but smaller contrast between the darkest two. :'(
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I decided to give a try at revamping the battle screen slightly:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/egeuee.png)
I tried shrinking the font horizontally a bit to save space, although from what Arne mentioned in the other thread this font size probably wouldn't work in the game.
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That layout looks really nice! But how would the menu for selecting fight, pkmn, item, run, look?
Also, that font would have to be 4x8, you can't do an M in 4x8. It looks much better with a tall font though. It's also easier to fit in with the other gui elements.
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(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5430/image5v.png)
Fiddled with the tiles, though I kept their tiling approach the same, just made the tiles themselves look different.
The lighter ground tiles better, the next darkest ground reads better as a grassy texture.
Tall grass though? Not sure if a more 'real' approach works better than the other approach that uses giant weeds.
My new tree probably tiles worse because I gave my tree more form.
The big trees from Viridian forest might be interesting to tackle next.
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That layout looks really nice! But how would the menu for selecting fight, pkmn, item, run, look?
I was thinking something like this:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2h549wj.gif)
The .gif ended up being a bit faster then I planned. :P
Also, that font would have to be 4x8, you can't do an M in 4x8. It looks much better with a tall font though. It's also easier to fit in with the other gui elements.
I think I remember seeing a font get away with 4px wide letters and have an alright looking M, I'll look around and see if I can find it. Why 4x8 though?
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Because everything is based on a 8x8 grid, I'm not sure if it's a technical limitation, something to get better performance or easier way to code.
Anything larger than 8x8 would have to be power of two, 16x16, 32x32.
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9944/followthegrid2.png)(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9945/followthegrid.png)
I updated my design a bit too.
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9946/battlescreen_fight2.png)
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It is a tech limit. The All Nintendo 2D hardware uses 8x8 characters for tiles (and for sprites in a lot of cases too, GB/C as well). And of course there is a limited amount of how many chars can be in RAM at any given moment and so on. So yeah, making a 4x8 font would require either shitloads of lettercombos or some system that generates tiles from bitmap data on the fly or something along those lines.
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It is a tech limit. The All Nintendo 2D hardware uses 8x8 characters for tiles (and for sprites in a lot of cases too, GB/C as well). And of course there is a limited amount of how many chars can be in RAM at any given moment and so on. So yeah, making a 4x8 font would require either shitloads of lettercombos or some system that generates tiles from bitmap data on the fly or something along those lines.
So, worst case scenario, two pokemons + attacks that use all the letters in the alphabet and all numbers, in the same battle.
I wonder how much was left in the memory, maybe a 4 palette gui and font would really be impossible.
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Definitely sounds like a lot more trouble then simply using a wider font. XD
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It is a tech limit. The All Nintendo 2D hardware uses 8x8 characters for tiles (and for sprites in a lot of cases too, GB/C as well). And of course there is a limited amount of how many chars can be in RAM at any given moment and so on. So yeah, making a 4x8 font would require either shitloads of lettercombos or some system that generates tiles from bitmap data on the fly or something along those lines.
So, worst case scenario, two pokemons + attacks that use all the letters in the alphabet and all numbers, in the same battle.
I wonder how much was left in the memory, maybe a 4 palette gui and font would really be impossible.
The GB could do a lot more than what Pokemon does. I mean, they surely did not have all pokemon gfx in memory. There are games with much more complex art and crazy tile usage. Most likely is that Nintendo just did these as cheap as possible as far as assets go.
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The GB could do a lot more than what Pokemon does. I mean, they surely did not have all pokemon gfx in memory. There are games with much more complex art and crazy tile usage. Most likely is that Nintendo just did these as cheap as possible as far as assets go.
For those of us who are less technically inclined, what is a game that gives us a better idea of what the GB is capable of?
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Chikyuu Kaihou Gun ZAS. If you go and play it on EMU play it in KiGB with the ghosting setting on.
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Chikyuu Kaihou Gun ZAS. If you go and play it on EMU play it in KiGB with the ghosting setting on.
I remember seeing that one mentioned a lot by a bunch of different pixel artists, I've never gotten around to trying it before but the graphics in it seem pretty awesome for a gameboy game.
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It uses the fact that the screen is shit and ghosts like mad to it's advantage and flickers the whole bg on some levels, which results in more colours.
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That game was kind of crazy. I think I counted at least 6-8 shades ( before I died.. again and again) and of course when a screenshot was taken it was just a mess.
I think with regards to these revamp mockups, we should operate under the idea that memory and such is not an issue, but that we should be as conservative as possible ( this means no tiles with only a couple of pixels in them, or adding second layers of sprites for more colors and things of that nature).
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Am I doing this right?
(http://i.imgur.com/QvVOIY4.gif)
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As long as you are following the restrictions there isn't really a wrong way to tackle this activity :]
That's a very interesting take on the battle screen; How would you show the attack window? Would it replace the options you have now?
Also, and this goes for everybody: feel free to use different pokemon in your battles! Charmander vs. Squirtle is super classic but as we all know, pokemon get bigger too and that can create some interesting challenges for these mockups. What may look good compositionally with the starter pokemon might not look as good with their final forms and vice versa.
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Well then! here are some screens I would have tried:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q3CiQlc.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/1Ys0q4p.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/gQF57F5.gif)
The biggest problems I'm having here are where to put the player's pokemon name when selecting your options. I just can't seem to place it somewhere convenient and aesthetically pleasing. Could make the window smaller if you wanted more space, and I replaced PKMN with SWITCH, because that's what you're really doing.
Your moves selection screen is easy, since you don't need to know your pokemon's name while selecting a move to use. Health and level you do need to consider though. You also don't need to see the entire of your opponent's pokemon sprite. Having all your moves' types and PP is also nice.
This one I could't get around. Writing works best horizontally, so what can I do.
I like having full backsprites though, and didn't realise until now Black & White have them. This one is obviously rushed; I made the flower fairly pretty and then got over it for his body. You get the idea. :P
Mine is a 32x32px image scaled x2 and shifted 4px horizontally. No idea if that's allowed, but it seems easy enough to code. Another 4px could be squeezed out on the Y axis if you wanted taller backsprites (doubled to 8px then). I could have easily just made it a 64x64px backsprite though, or indeed 72x64px.
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I think those hp bars lack contrast, but the clean look is really nice.
Also, the original TYPE/GRASS what much more clearer, only writing GRA makes the game harder to understand for new players.
Which would have been really bad for the first game in the series :)
Without the arrows, it might be confusing which pokemon is which, of course when you play it you know, but someone looking at a glance, like a friend or a new player might not be as certain.
There's also a scrolling effect for the text, where it goes up a tile, without a larger dialogue box that effect is lost.
Attempted an edit:
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9966/clean_gui_edit.png)
I also feel that the clean/strict look only impress designers and people interested in design.
The target audience would most likely not appreciate it as much.
The corners of the dialogue box could be rounded to make it look more friendly.
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Well, following all that there really isn't much left for me to do other than change the GUI slightly. D:
I like your fat health bars. Health really is quite important to fights, so it deserves more real estate on the screen!
As for the contrast problem I think I've managed to solve that without the need for dithering.
Players probably won't be seeing grass for the first time under their attack listing, so I figure it'd be enough. As an alternative I could use an icon? 8x8px is enough to make a little leaf icon. It's all for naught though, since I can't use that layout given the other issues.
I've put each pokemon's information right up against them, so now you should easily be able to tell which is which without the need for arrows.
Cursed scrolling effects ruining my full bodied backsprites. Though I'm sure one could come up with an alternative means of scrolling that would allow for a shorter text box? In any case, added a fatter text box.
Yeah well clean/strictness impresses me! T_T Silly target audience. Gave it rounded corners for them.
(http://i.imgur.com/bkAjFcn.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/1C1eSvt.gif)
That's it. In my defence, my mindset is that of if it were released today (well 2013) and its target audience was me - just on the limited hardware of the GBC.
Speech bubbles from the left indicate it's our action, from the right our opponent's. We read from left to right, so I moved the fight options accordingly.
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I grew up on these games! I can't wait to give this a try. That being said I am confused... the swatches are for GBA. This was a GB game... so should we restrict ourselves to only the olive monochrome greens of the game boy, or should we be using the game boy color swatches?
BTW: If you want to add to the challenge, make the mock up listening to this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJJ-QkZ8cM&list=PL2B64538EA176C9C6 :crazy:
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That layout for Fight, item, switch, run actually makes lots of sense. Good idea!
They do something similar already for the store, where the cost is on a row below but at the opposite side.
BTW: If you want to add to the challenge, make the mock up listening to this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJJ-QkZ8cM&list=PL2B64538EA176C9C6 :crazy:
I've been humming the main theme all weekend :D
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(https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/17/pokemonz.png)
just some quick idea, not executed very well, and just using bits and peices of other peoples. Probably not as interesting without the back sprites, but I was wondering if not having the back sprites would allow for animations instead. Though I doubt if you could get more than 1 extra frame for animations anyways, since both pokemon together are already taking up like 100 tiles. Thought about putting a horizon line behind the pokemon and filling the ground gray, though Im not sure if you could have that work. The lightest gray seemed too dark anyways. Also problematic, the top row would run out of room for both names if the names were longer.
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Some of the original concept art (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?s=267f43bb9d9f9d95bf349da2fb7561f8&p=5068845&postcount=14) had a battle view like that.
I like the idea with the grass. It could substitute the arrows (and not break budget) since the grass or terrain line establishes the "plane" the figure is on. Decided to draw my own Pokémon and then I realized I could as well have a little fun using it for this activity.
(http://androidarts.com/monster/crocadillo.gif)
Small icons could be used for temp status changes like attack nerf. No clue how many would be needed though.
Might be possible to do a 4w*8h font for shorter strings if the tiles are streamed into video memory when needed, but it's sort of awkward.
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Can anyone verify that the overworld NPCs/characters occupy 6 sprites?
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Arne: That looks pretty yummy. How would do the rest of the battle screen?
Dusty: Do you mean occupying 6 8x8 sprite blocks ( 24x16) as opposed to 4 (16x16)? or that there are only 6 npc sprites ( which is definitely not true)?
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Dusty: Do you mean occupying 6 8x8 sprite blocks ( 24x16)
^ this. From what I could gather they do but I wanted to be sure.
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Hrmm. Collision wise things seem to fit snugly within the 16x16 area, so unless animations sometimes go beyond that I don't see why they would be over 16x16?
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Hrmm. Collision wise things seem to fit snugly within the 16x16 area, so unless animations sometimes go beyond that I don't see why they would be over 16x16?
I was thrown off by the fact the characters snap to a grid, and for some reason assumed that would be a proper way to detect their size. I was completely oblivious to the fact they're probably offsetting the sprites.
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Alright, well I took a stab at the interior tiles. I didn't do anything creative really, just kind of redid the tiles and sprites. On table objects like the pokedex's and pokeball's I exploited the fact they're static items(and predictable as to where they will be used) so used transparency to have more colors in the sprites(where applicable), basically using the colors of the table to as a 4th shade.
(http://i.imgur.com/gi0Huid.png)
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Dusty: Beautiful. That's an interesting thing to explore, exploiting transparency in static sprites!
If only we had one of those rom hackers who wanted to make us a pokemon crimson version. It would be really cool to see this stuff all put together.
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hmm, that is a good idea about the transparency.
since were supposed to be concerning ourselves with how it would look on an actual gameboy, could anyone confirm how convincingly the old gameboy screen displayed dithering?
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Too many colors on the NPCs though, Dusty? The hair. Here's a segment of NPCs from PKMNY. (There's a much larger one later in the data.) Plotted from white (0) to black (3).
(http://androidarts.com/gamedev/PKMNY%20NPC%20segment%201.png)
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Nice! Love that you managed to make a good looking GUI while keeping the pokeballs. It does looks a little thick though and would be nice with a bit larger margin for the text.
I tried something similar inspired by your design!
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9976/battlescreen_fight.png)
I added a lighter gray zeroes as fillers, makes it easier to see the actual numbers while still filling out the empty spots.
Not sure about the gui as it looks more bloated and goofy. But I was aiming for the target audience rather than my personal taste :)
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Too many colors on the NPCs though, Dusty? The hair. Here's a segment of NPCs from PKMNY. (There's a much larger one later in the data.) Plotted from white (0) to black (3).
(http://androidarts.com/gamedev/PKMNY%20NPC%20segment%201.png)
Hmm can you point out where exactly? I'm fairly certain I kept it to 3 colors per 8x8:
(http://i.imgur.com/qdcbpz3.png)
Dusty: Beautiful. That's an interesting thing to explore, exploiting transparency in static sprites!
If only we had one of those rom hackers who wanted to make us a pokemon crimson version. It would be really cool to see this stuff all put together.
Thanks, and ya people should definitely exploit it if possible. Though I remember on Link's Awakening, Link's sword had transparency used as a shade and Link could walk under it and be seen through it. Always bugged me, so gotta be careful I guess.
Nice! Love that you managed to make a good looking GUI while keeping the pokeballs. It does looks a little thick though and would be nice with a bit larger margin for the text.
I tried something similar inspired by your design!
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9976/battlescreen_fight.png)
I added a lighter gray zeroes as fillers, makes it easier to see the actual numbers while still filling out the empty spots.
Not sure about the gui as it looks more bloated and goofy. But I was aiming for the target audience rather than my personal taste :)
Thanks! I agree the GUI was a bit bloated, and I even had to cut down the bottom portion to make it look less cluttered. I could possibly fix the bloated look with a custom font that better suits the alignment, but I couldn't be bothered.
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Dusty> I see, you used the Final Fantasy NPC approach with the top using a different palette. Well, that's the first game I saw using it for 16*16 px NPCs anyways. While the GB apparently allows for two different transparency colors, all the NPC's in Yellow seem to use white as transp. so hacking it in would probably take some extra effort. Looking at some random GB games, I see none using transparencies mixed on the same character. Not sure if a limitation... Maybe it just wasn't practical? Perhaps the transp. index was associated with the entire movable figure? SML just used white as trans for everything in the game. The Castlevania games seems to have different transparencies for different figures but not mixed. A lot of games with 16*16 px characters like the FFL/SaGa games and Zelda seem to stay with one transparency.
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Ah that's a pity, I'm not as clever as I thought. Oh well, I suppose I did maintain the restrictions of the challenge at least.
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Also, the Pokéballs are NPCs (seen on the NPC dump) and not a part of the local terrain chunks. They are used elsewhere as "treasure chests" and Voltorb encounters, iirc.
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Dang! I worked with the colours from one of the tilesheets in the other thread, and didn't notice that the brightness settings were different. It ended up a bit darker than I had envisioned.
Anyway, here is a progress .gif that features the reference and intended colours:
(http://i.imgur.com/c2QXI5o.gif)
Corrected brightness levels:
(http://i.imgur.com/UXgDeOV.png)(http://i.imgur.com/Whpi8wG.png)
I consider the r/b Blastoise sprite to be one of the worst in that game. The shell, cannon, arm, hand and leg are just one big confusing mess of clashing surfaces. Both the original r/g version and yellow did a better job making this sprite readable, while also looking like the original designs. Anyway, that's why I wanted to start by doing a remake based on this particular sprite. My only goals were simplifying the look and trying to do a better job at creating unique surfaces that don't blend into each other too much. Aside from that I just had fun with it. My commitment to the source material is... loose.
I thought there would be more of a rush to remaking the monster and trainer sprites! :P
I want to take a stab at reconstructing the battle interface as well. I think Azuyre and Arne are on the right track in trying to reduce the text content and size of the battle menu. Having every little bit of information told through the text box has been one of my biggest gripes with these games since the start. All battles just take so long! By putting more of that information in symbols that pop up, less would have to be constantly explained in text, and the battles could move on in a quicker pace.
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Also, the Pokéballs are NPCs (seen on the NPC dump) and not a part of the local terrain chunks. They are used elsewhere as "treasure chests" and Voltorb encounters, iirc.
Aye, I did make them in with being NPCs in mind.
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"Gameboy restrictions" is a more complicated issue than I thought. I will have to put in some time in to what is and isn't allowed. Certainly insightful work-arounds such as what Dusty has done with transparency and different sprite portions using different palettes are encouraged since they involve valuable concepts in dealing with the restrictions; regardless of how practical they actually are.
As a very soft rule, things of that nature are welcome and encouraged; exploiting the screen in the way Chikyuu Kaihou Gun ZAS does it however, is probably a bit out of scope for this challenge activity.
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Nice! Love that you managed to make a good looking GUI while keeping the pokeballs. It does looks a little thick though and would be nice with a bit larger margin for the text.
I tried something similar inspired by your design!
(http://share.cherrytree.at/showfile-9976/battlescreen_fight.png)
I added a lighter gray zeroes as fillers, makes it easier to see the actual numbers while still filling out the empty spots.
Not sure about the gui as it looks more bloated and goofy. But I was aiming for the target audience rather than my personal taste :)
With some updated Pokemon sprites that would be one sleek looking gameboy game. Nice job! :D
I ended up updating my previous attempt:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2uqcaqw.png)
This time I made sure to organize things with the 8x8 tiles in mind, I had completely forgotten about it before. :P I liked r1k's layout so I decided to try something like that, it's crazy how much extra space you have to work with when you remove that big back sprite. I'm not too sure about my health bars, they look nice in black and white but when I color them the missing health area is too bright.
I was also trying to decide if the PP bar for the attacks was necessary, I put it there cause the empty space seemed a bit strange, but it seems like it might just be a bit of clutter.
I also borrowed your idea for using faded out zeroes Seiseki, they work really well for filling in the blank spaces. :)
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looks like it fixes alot of the problems I had with mine. I cant help but feel the lower half is a little too busy though. I think the bar for the amount of attacks remaining might be too much, and not very neccesary. I think using regular text for the attack type looked cleaner and it would also free up a little tile space that could be used to give each pokemon an animation frame (or so I hope). Maybe you could get rid of the heart for the health bars. Its not really needed to imply that its the health bar. It would also make the players health bar align with the icons at the left, which I think is a little bit cleaner of a design. The ground you went with is simple but pretty effective.
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That looks awesome!
I'm also concerned about the lower part and how busy it gets. I love how you squeezed in level next to the hp bar and the nice looking labels for attack types.
I keep thinking about the target audience and how it's aimed towards kids.
Gonna try a few of your ideas! Lot's of good stuff to pick from ;)
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Thanks for the compliments! Glad you guys like it, I decided to try out a new version with a rearranged layout that makes it less cluttered:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2ynm2w8.png)
I made the type icon a little smaller, mainly so it would line up better with the PP, though I guess it would also help cut down on the amount of tiles the type icons would take up in memory. I also changed the way the empty section of the health bar looks, I'm not sure if I prefer the way they look now or before though.
Edit: I updated the background a little bit and added a second version of the PP box with the written type instead of the icon. I prefer the one with the icon but I do like how the written one came out, it might not look as good with shorter types like grass or fire though.
I also just realized the background wouldn't look right on the color version, maybe something like this?
(http://i41.tinypic.com/6e1xfr.png)
It actually looks better then I expected, I thought it might look strange having the grass in two different colors but it seems to work alright.
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So are the Pokemon in the battle scenes sprites or tiles? I always got the feeling they were tiles in the original games?
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that looks good. I made a small edit
(https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/850/pokeedit.png)
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I think the colored grass works great with Charizard who looks like he's causing ambient light. I suspect that water Pokémon that are not blue (e.g. Magicarp) will look less underwatery than say Tentacool who'd get a sea grass kinda feel. With a pure white abstract BG Magicarp looks less like a ...fish outta water.
The battle screen Pokémon are tiles. You can easily tell by setting up different BG and Sprite palettes. However, the splash/attack effects are sprites, and also the very top of the backsprite during slide-in because it has to go over and across the enemy sprite.
I'd be tempted to use the extra unused font tiles for symbols like elements and attack types and stab and whatever, then throw those into the various strings.
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that looks good. I made a small edit
(https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/850/pokeedit.png)
Looks good :) I was trying to think of a way to make the box take up that whole space before without having the contents off center, I hadn't thought to just split the / into two tiles though.
I think the colored grass works great with Charizard who looks like he's causing ambient light. I suspect that water Pokémon that are not blue (e.g. Magicarp) will look less underwatery than say Tentacool who'd get a sea grass kinda feel. With a pure white abstract BG Magicarp looks less like a ...fish outta water.
The battle screen Pokémon are tiles. You can easily tell by setting up different BG and Sprite palettes. However, the splash/attack effects are sprites, and also the very top of the backsprite during slide-in because it has to go over and across the enemy sprite.
I'd be tempted to use the extra unused font tiles for symbols like elements and attack types and stab and whatever, then throw those into the various strings.
Yeah, I really like how Charizard looks with that grass. I tried it with Magikarp and he seems a bit off but Tentacool does work pretty well:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/e19sg3.png)
I remember seeing you mention the status icons earlier, I had made some of them but I kept forgetting to add them to the mockups. I added some this time though, from left to right at the top they're "Mean Look" which stops you from running away, though I don't think it was in this one, then defense down, sleep, and poison. On the bottom its speed up, attack up and defense up.
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Awesome, this layout really cuts down on wasted space. But the psuedo 3D layout has been carried from the first game to every game in the series since then, so I feel kinda torn on the issue.
I first read the tag as 'Hater' and was like, wtf? :-\
Also, by having different rounded ends for the bars fill, you're adding 18 extra tiles in addition to the regular 9.
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Awesome, this layout really cuts down on wasted space. But the psuedo 3D layout has been carried from the first game to every game in the series since then, so I feel kinda torn on the issue.
Yeah, it is a bit strange to have something different after being so used to whats in the games, I kinda like this one cause it reminds me of the opening scene from Red and Blue. :)
Also, by having different rounded ends for the bars fill, you're adding 18 extra tiles in addition to the regular 9.
Ah, I hadn't thought about that, I fixed it on this new one.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/a47f6c.png)
I decided to try some different icons out, what do you guys think?
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I've never been any good at layouts or anything, so I decided to try redoing a randomly selected pokémon sprite.
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/Ymedron/zubatredo_zps1eecd056.png)
It's not as easy as it seems, I found out. D: Will have to fix around with this.
Edit:
I was going to sleep, but I had to try and pre-emptively fix some of the errors that I could see.
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/Ymedron/zubatredo2_zps4773f487.png)
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how can i be the first to think of Jinns pokemon restoration project?
he has a piece of it on pixeljoint but i'll send you the deviant art link. http://jinndev.deviantart.com/art/Pokemon-RedBlue-Revitalization-256768981
hopefully this is of some help. his work with pokemon even on pixeljoint is nothing short of amazing.
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Good call I had forgotten about that. Jinn is indeed incredible with colors/rendering. I'd love to see some post-GB mockups with those sprites!
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Azuyre, does the sword symbol mean increased strength? I might try changing it to a fist since the attack option uses a fist, and the pokemon dont actually use swords. Though if you cant make a readable fist at that size sword is probably the way to go since people easily recognize the meaning.
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Azuyre, does the sword symbol mean increased strength? I might try changing it to a fist since the attack option uses a fist, and the pokemon dont actually use swords. Though if you cant make a readable fist at that size sword is probably the way to go since people easily recognize the meaning.
Yeah, the sword was for attack, I was trying to make a fist but at that size it was a bit hard to convey, I figured sword/shield are generally recognized though. I wonder if there's something else that would be a bit match for pokemon that could replace the fist and sword.
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But both defense and attack can go up and down right?
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Think back to the 90's
It'd be better not to show any piece of weaponry on the game, children could get bad ideas, NOA would be on our ass... you know. ::)
And yes Seiseki, all stats can go either up or down a certain number of times, those stats being ATK, DEF, SP.ATK and SP.DEF
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Actually I believe the stats were (in Gen 1) Attack, Defense, Speed and Special ( covers both SpA and SpD)
Minor stats being Evasion and Accuracy
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So if the stats can go up and down, I don't think any of them should be used as icons, since even if speed is down a pokemon might still be faster than it's opponent.
Best thing would be if you could somehow get an info box of the stats, but then we're talking gameplay alterations.
Stuff like poison and sleep which are binary effects would be easier to include.
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So I made a mockup...
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/pkmn-Clng-Me_zpsb2fe4ece.png~original) (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/pkmn-Clng-pk_zps8859f3c4.png~original)
Imagine it's in an alternate pokemon universe, somewhat like a mix of Cadillacs & dinosaurs (the cartoon or comic) and pokemon.
What I challenged myself to do was to use the same amount of tiles to make something better looking, so what I bet on was using those variation flower and grass tiles to make a better basic grass texture.
I think I've never really posted anything with tiles in here cause it usually sucks...I worked on this for a couple of days, looking up StarOcean Blue and Trip World refferences and goung trough several completely different versions, until I settled on this one. Took a while to get it far enough I can let go...maybe I should've used more tiles? tell me what ya think
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Awesome stuff going on here, pals!
Other day I was redoing some basic shading on the red/green sprites.
(http://i.imgur.com/8j9U6xX.gif)
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Well if Jinn's too modest to mention his R/B remake sprites, then I guess I'll do it (http://jinndev.deviantart.com/art/Pokemon-RedBlue-Revitalization-256768981).
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(http://i.imgur.com/4Z8GFgm.png)
1. Original sprite
2. What they were probably going for
3. What it looked like to me
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so...fakemon
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/baybaybom/pkmn-Clng-fak_zps6c4d5c2e.png~original)
I just felt the need to post something that didnt totally blow after yesterday. Obviously the GUI is barely a sketch
EDIT: corrected image url
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Seems like a good evolution for Porigon, Conceit, was intentional?
Also, nicely done as always, cure. Is this sprite from green/red or blue/red?
Some more revamps:
(http://i.imgur.com/PBOgJio.gif)
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Jinn:Not at all! but I did notice and I completely agree =)
I was thinking of Mythical salamanders, I sort of wanted an inbetween spot between how lizards crawl and snakes slither....so if you noticed I only show one leg at each side of the body, that's intentional....it's supposed to grow a leg each time it turns O_o and they fuse into the tail when they leave the ground.
The polygonal aspect only came in at the very end, this was supposed to be my interpretation of the mythical version of salamanders...and I have a bunch of ideas about this creature I still havent made O.O maybe'll make another fakemon like that, more like a comet-salamander.
Cure: that is completely hillarious...it must've been so bizarre to play the game seeing that XD
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Conceit: That battle mockup is looking pretty sick. Is the second bar for experience? Would like to see you finish it with a backsprite and have some screens showing how the UI would work.
Your overworld mockup I feel suffers from an even more overbearing grid. The grass tile is nice and seamless but the wild grass and bushes make the grid more apparent than in original. At least for me, I think breaking the grid and its ability to make a world more believable would trump stylizations.
JinnDEvil: Nice Revamps! Cubone is especially nice. It's a good exercise to perfect pixel placement and notice bad pixeling habits.
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cure. Is this sprite from green/red or blue/red?
R/B, but I'm pretty sure the trainer sprites were the same regardless.
it must've been so bizarre to play the game seeing that XD
I had no idea what I was looking at. Fearow threw me for a loop as well. I read the negative space between his beak and wing as as another plane of a giant beak:
(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/8/8c/Spr_1b_022.png)
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RYU: Heh, it's not like I went oh, let's do a really griddy mockup for style....it's really not easy at all to break the grid while using the same amount of tiles, specially for someone like me who is not good at this. in the end I really couldnt so I just made all the assets in the original mockup and let it go.
Yeah, the second bar was experience. I dont think I want to do backsprites...I had some general idea of doing something with panels emulating comicbooks so I can have a closeup of your pokemon while the other one is getting attacked...but I dont know if I'll draw that. havent really figured it out
Cure: that is insane. I'm trying to see spearow like that and I either see a fuckin toucan with a machete-like beak or a harpoon like hook on his beak...both of which are hillarious and actually a much more fun pokemon XD
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I just noticed this thread today. Man I wish mods would be made from this.
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I hope I'm doing it right, still a wip. This is a really fun challenge to make me sprite again :lol:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2r6p11d_th.png) ------> (http://i40.tinypic.com/5pmzcn_th.png)
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Really nice! Will include the exp bar and stats somehow?
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Of course! I just need to wrap my head around my own design and figure out where to put them and not cause the design to look way overdone :ouch:
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Sinkin: that looks very good. I like that you didnt use the backsprite...I wanted to do that but never really figured it out. Grass with implied prespective is also awesome too, dont know about breaking the tile budget tho.
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Looks good indeed.
But portraits instead of back sprites would remove a lot of the pokémon feel and not because it's been that way since the first games..
The backsprites and trainers are there to make it feel/look like you're sending out your pokemon into battle, with only a portrait it's more like you're the pokemon instead of giving orders to one from behind. I think this concept is more valuable than any aesthetic issues.
I love how your mockup gives a better feel of wild pokemons appearing in tall grass though.
With the minimalistic gui, squeezing in a backsprite would be easy though?
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Wow, it's a good thing I noticed this thread.
I used to play around with GBA rom sprite editors around 2 or 3 years ago, and made plenty of sprites for them.
Great to have a place to post them, or they'll keep rotting in my folders!
(http://i43.tinypic.com/10wur6s.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/104qjhe.jpg)
Enjoy.
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Awesome, lovely improvements!
I especially love the pokécenter, but if only the roof could have more depth..
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Rain Dancer: Those sprites are beautiful, some of the best use of a 16x16 canvas I've ever seen. :y: :y: :y:
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This topic's a bit old, but I found it through the banner and it inspired me. I borrowed some ideas from Azuyre and came up with this. I limited myself by keeping everything in an 8x8 grid.
(http://i.imgur.com/JDRE6X0.png)
^The basic battle menu. New information includes the small bar under the player's level icon denoting experience percentage, and some terrain between the pokemon that changes depending on where you are encountering them.
(http://i.imgur.com/c3cSbrZ.png)
^The attack submenu. I wanted to give the player more information about their attacks, so they get damage, accuracy, and special effects it might have below. I also made stat changes visible at all times under each pokemon's respective health bars.
(http://i.imgur.com/4Y1Ju6P.png)
^All of the different status ailments and stat change icons
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I really like the contrast you created by making the menu the darkest tone available. That looks pretty cool, overall :)
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Don't worry about the age of the thread, it's nice to see people into it; that inspiration is what it's for! That menu system looks really great. As crow said the contrast is nice, and all the status icons and being able to see the move's type is awesome. Also those couple tiles of terrain do a lot for a little. Good stuff :]
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I love the inverted look, it's very well done, but I think it gets too cluttered with all the icons and stats. It's divided in weird places which makes it quite unclear.
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I am making a hack of pokemon red and I am wondering if you guys would mind if I used some of these idea to redesign the battle/pokedex screens and some overworld sprites? There a lot of good ones here. Obviously I will give you credit for the graphics and inspiration. Please let me know if you are/are not okay with it.
Thank you, great job on all of them.
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Please share the results if you do! I'd love to replay the game with those sweet Rain Dancer's graphics!
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I will! Working on updating the menus/screens now, then some bug fixes and then I will be focusing on updating the overworld layout. (sprites are mostly done already but I'll see if I can incorporate some of Rain Dancers).
These are the screens who i will try to use (with some tweaks):
Yaomon17 for the battle menu, Ambivorous for the battle HUD, Seiseki for the bg tiles, Ryumaru for the pokedex screen, and Rain Dancers over world sprites.
If you guys have any issues with this, let me know. Thanks
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You should send those users a private message and ask for permission ;)
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Yes... that would make more sense.
Done.
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Hi, I'm new here. After stumbling upon this thread, I got extremely interested in it and went to work on it. Shown here are 4 maps from the game that I recreated with Pro Motion.
EDIT: Upon request, I did a comparison between the recreation (left) and the original (right).
Pallet Town:
(http://media.tumblr.com/b9ed2a0e0ff6990ebea5798f7b22fc6b/tumblr_inline_mw1d2gBctd1r9m6f2.png) (http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/c/c7/Pallet_Town_RBY.png)
Saffron City:
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/dd41885054801cc7019accb70835b897/tumblr_mvvgy5dxSB1rsj6gpo1_r1_1280.png)
(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/7/74/Saffron_City_RBY.png)
Red's House:
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/7f151a1be8ee09a576e8e010335bbfc8/tumblr_mvvi9mwJnT1rsj6gpo1_250.png) (http://media.tumblr.com/a4f7cbf50648077726b2cabcf0256155/tumblr_inline_mw1c5fTboq1r9m6f2.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/b86dc2024ac4337a35d6b29226f777d5/tumblr_mvvi9mwJnT1rsj6gpo2_250.png) (http://media.tumblr.com/31e6ca6fb76a789c770ddeff66cada5b/tumblr_inline_mw1c5b44uA1r9m6f2.png)
I used the designs from the Fire Red/Leaf Green and Heart Gold/Soul Silver versions as reference for these. And they were drawn in a tile map with 16x16 pixels each.
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Really nice stuff, pal! I wish I could see the originals side by side just for the sake of comparison.
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Really nice stuff, pal! I wish I could see the originals side by side just for the sake of comparison.
Edited the post just for that.
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The improvements are really tangible, dude. Nice work indeed.
I guess the only thing I like better on the old one is the indoor plant.
Any plans for the tall grass?
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Dear lord that's beautiful
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I really loved the battle menu Sinkin made, but i didnt really show enough info to the player so i tried to enhance it
(http://i.imgur.com/PxKnNrF.png)
yeah i took the sprites from crystal cause they're pretty much perfect
you'll notice i chose to show the type of your pokemon, as well as the enemy's type (if he has already been encountered ; otherwise it'll show "???")
it was fun making that small 4x4 font for the types, trying to get things to be readible at that scale isnt easy !
i realize its kinda busy at the bottom but i dunno how to sort the the tiles in a less clusterfucked way
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Not bad, but I think it kinda takes away the charm of pokemon, to see your fighting 'mon absent. Sexy, nevertheless, but it reminds me of the Mother/Earthbound game style.
And im actually itching to see pokeglitch's hack. I would play it just for the delicious graphical changes, but if it's a good mod, that's an added bonus. :D
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I really like the background on those lexou.
Thanks for the support, rain dancer. For an update:
The battle screen navigation is complete.
The party menu is also compete.
The battle screen layout/HP/status symbols are also all complete.
The battle foreground is complete. This is probably where I am least satisfied... to get a background, I would need to place the Pokemon's sprite into the oam, (for transparency) but since some Pokemon use white as part of their colour scheme, those body parts will also become transparent. so instead I placed the 'background' in the oam and declared it a foreground. So it's not always on screen, but it's more than nothing.
I wasnt going to include stat modifiers on screen, but changed my mind earlier this week. I had to modify the 'draw backsprite' routine to open up some space in the vram for the tiles. Now I just have to find space on the battle screen too draw then (and hope it doesn't look to cluttered)
Next week i hope to finish the pokedex screens & menu, then comes the items screen. I already started the overworld a few months ago, but after im done with these screens my goal is to update the tiles/finish laying out the entire overworld.
I've also begun getting a site together for this hack... I'll begin posting screenshots there once I'm done with the battle screens. This is the first site I'm actually posting anything about the hack, but I've been working on it for close to a year. It won't disappoint.
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Wow, that sounds very solid. Can't wait to see this.
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The website is going well, but its not ready to be posted yet. Here is the screenshot, though. Let me know what you all think.
(http://imgur.com/JrhRpkb.png)
EDIT:
I've also finally completed the pokedex screen and menu.
The website is progressing well...let me know what you think.
http://poketre.com/
So far I'm only designing it for chrome, no clue how it works in other browsers. Keep checking for more updates.
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That's looking really promising! Will you use Jackster maps?
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Thanks! I'll be adding more screen and some more info this weekend. Jackster and Rain Dancer both have good overworld tiles. I will try to incorporate some of them, but I have already done a lot of work on the overworld (1/5 or so large maps complete) so it won't be all of them. Hopefully next will I will be able to start work on completing ALL of the overworld maps. That should take a few weeks. Of course, then there's a lot more work after that. I'll keep you posted on how the sprite updates are going.
EDIT: I've added the stats screen and items screen, let me know what you think.
http://poketre.com
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The idea is really nice! The icons could use a little more work tho, want some help with it?
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Are you referring to the item screen pack icons? Yeah I just devamped those from another generation. If you think you can get together something better, go for it! I appreciate the help.
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Yep, those ones. Send the sprites you've used in the game and I'll see what I can do to help ;)
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Sure, thanks! Here you go
http://imgur.com/a/lyCUd
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I probably overdid the AA in some spots, but well...
(http://i.imgur.com/zpZ4ET5.gif)
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They look good! Thanks. I just put them in, I'll update tomorrow with screen shots for you
EDIT: I added the new screenshot. thanks again!
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I almost forgot about this, but now that I see it again.. Wow. It's orgasmic.
If you need any graphics help, just ask.
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Thanks Vagrant (if you're talking to me). Right now I'm still finishing up graphics, but I don't think I need any new content at the moment. I'll definitely keep you in mind if something comes up. I'm getting closer to a release, but still have a few more weeks of work.
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Any news on the project, pokeglitch? I'm really looking forward to see how it's turning out.
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Thanks for the support, JinnDEvil. I've been chipping away at the overworld tilesets/layouts. There's a lot more maps in this game than I anticipated. I've added in a few more features while I've been doing the maps, so that's why things are going slow. After the maps I will be taking a break from graphics and focusing on coding, (items, HMs and a few other new features). Then I'll jump back into some graphics (mainly overworld Pokemon sprites). Then I will play through and finally finish all the texts and overworld scripts.
Still months of work, especially since it will be going slow once summer comes
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew01.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew02.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew03.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew04.png)
It's not graphically intensive, but I think this is an interesting variation on the battle menu. It keeps the back view/front-view perspective but gives a little more personality with the trainer/'mon icons. It reminds me somewhat of the Shining Force series. In retrospect I should have removed the border for Charmander's icon, since the game is simply reusing the front-view graphics rather than excessively storing near-identical tiles.
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Those screens are beautiful, but unfortunately they probably wouldn't have worked. Both the character and pokemon sprites are utilizing their transparency for a 4th color ( the white background). With your set up, Sprites would have to be added on top to make the white opaque and THAT would probably take up too much memory, be too cumbersome with all the characters and pokemon.
What you could do, is make a bigger white tree that is behind the sprites at all times.
(http://i.imgur.com/rm51YnO.gif)
It doesn't look nearly as good, but those are the restrictions. Also, the way sprites scroll into battle, any part of them that is white would show the background through on their way to these white backdrops. there could be a way to design more detailed backgrounds like this while not getting in the way of the sprite's transparency though.
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Those screens are beautiful, but unfortunately they probably wouldn't have worked. Both the character and pokemon sprites are utilizing their transparency for a 4th color ( the white background). With your set up, Sprites would have to be added on top to make the white opaque and THAT would probably take up too much memory, be too cumbersome with all the characters and pokemon.
What you could do, is make a bigger white tree that is behind the sprites at all times.
(http://i.imgur.com/rm51YnO.gif)
It doesn't look nearly as good, but those are the restrictions. Also, the way sprites scroll into battle, any part of them that is white would show the background through on their way to these white backdrops. there could be a way to design more detailed backgrounds like this while not getting in the way of the sprite's transparency though.
I should have known about the transparency trick! Thank you for telling me about that. On top of which the background would ultimately have to accommodate all 151 Pokemon, so there needs to be two 56*56 blank spaces on the screen - even those giant trees wouldn't be enough, width-wise. Which in theory would mean it would be extremely difficult to create good backgrounds (forest, building, gym, etc) that incorporate those blank spaces. Which in practice just makes me want to try and do just that.
Edit: some hashed-out examples! Tried using the white tiles as light reflection on the floor coming from the windows, so there's two three copies of the third image with and without that attempt.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew01%20%282%29.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew02%20%282%29.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew05%20%283%29.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew06%20%283%29.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew06%20-%20Copy.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew06%20%284%29.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/poknew07.png)
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These are good! A little odd in their composition of course, but every little bit adds to the atmosphere. I gave some leeway with the width in my edit because I justified it in my head that perhaps most sprites would not have white inside them near their edges. Apparently each sprite is made of a collection of smaller 8x8 sprites put together. One should be able to designate some of those sprites having different palettes I would think- one where white was NOT the transparent color, and thus could show against a background.
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These are good! A little odd in their composition of course, but every little bit adds to the atmosphere. I gave some leeway with the width in my edit because I justified it in my head that perhaps most sprites would not have white inside them near their edges. Apparently each sprite is made of a collection of smaller 8x8 sprites put together. One should be able to designate some of those sprites having different palettes I would think- one where white was NOT the transparent color, and thus could show against a background.
Maybe you can do even better and do palette swaps per scanline, but I'm not sure how the gameboy handles palettes and scanline interrupts. In any case, yes, it should be possible.
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/pokeremake%20%2822%29.png)
The first four screens with intro, menu, attack menu and narration; a larger opponent Pokemon to demonstrate the necessity of the 56*56 blank space; the intro of a Giovanni battle demonstrating a different background entirely; the original background and battle menu style that had to be removed; a dark cave background. I changed all the sprites from the original games as well as the menu style, and I'm liking most of the changes, it gives me a strong Shining Force vibe.
EDIT: The two FOCUS ENERGY screenshots have different looks for Pokemon Trainer Red, I don't have a real preference between the two.
DOUBLE EDIT: I changed the Mewtwo sprite. I initially liked the idea of the semi-shadowy figure with his face obscured, but the weird contrast in lighting and dithering didn't save the picture. If you want to see the initial picture, it's here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/pokeremake%20mewtwo.png).
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Definitely the second trainer, gives him that ominous Red look. These are great attempts at adding backgrounds while still following how the game handles things, but some bits are just awkward and draw attention to themselves.
I would be interested in seeing a system created that split up the sprite in a way that the majority of it could use 4 colors, but in the right places it would allow for transparency and background behind it. I might even take a stab at it myself.
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Ohhh! I really like the direction this thread is taking! StevenM has a great, functional design I thought I'd tweak.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/203/4/3/pokemon_commercial_critique_by_dragondeplatino-d7ru6nh.png)
For the forest mockup I went ahead and added a canopy, moved around some grass and tweaked Charizard's wing and shadows. When it comes to working with a limited space, I'd advise against having long lines of pixels that touch the edge of the 56x56 box. It makes it obvious where the edges of the sprites are.
For the indoor mockup I made it a bit more efficient tile-wise and found a neat way to get Red's sprite working. There's a sort of white strip along the back wall which blends with the ground nicely. Not sure how to handle Giovanni's side and the door, though.
I also changed the cave mockup a bit. I went with some pillars of light to make the sprites less boxy and added some rocky background details. I bumped the stone platforms down a tile and tweaked the right side of Charizard's sprite a bit. What do you guys think?
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Ohhh! I really like the direction this thread is taking! StevenM has a great, functional design I thought I'd tweak.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/203/4/3/pokemon_commercial_critique_by_dragondeplatino-d7ru6nh.png)
For the forest mockup I went ahead and added a canopy, moved around some grass and tweaked Charizard's wing and shadows. When it comes to working with a limited space, I'd advise against having long lines of pixels that touch the edge of the 56x56 box. It makes it obvious where the edges of the sprites are.
For the indoor mockup I made it a bit more efficient tile-wise and found a neat way to get Red's sprite working. There's a sort of white strip along the back wall which blends with the ground nicely. Not sure how to handle Giovanni's side and the door, though.
I also changed the cave mockup a bit. I went with some pillars of light to make the sprites less boxy and added some rocky background details. I bumped the stone platforms down a tile and tweaked the right side of Charizard's sprite a bit. What do you guys think?
Yes. YEs. YES. This is great! You and StevenM really knocked it out of the park with this background stuff; it all looks really doable and gives just enough information to allow the viewer to fill in the blanks and create their own idea of how the world looks. ( which I think is a big component in creating charm, nostalgia, and strong attachment to the original graphics.)
:y: :y: :y:
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I agree with Ryumaru, those look great. They really fit in with the game. Good work on them! You've inspired me to fix up my battle screen with a more detailed background akin to those!
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I made a slight edit to dragondedino's mockup - just widen the spotlights by one line on each side to clear the tangents.
(http://i.imgur.com/XyaMTga.png)
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(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/203/4/3/pokemon_commercial_critique_by_dragondeplatino-d7ru6nh.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/XyaMTga.png)
I am super loving these pictures! I only have one little issue with Ymedron's edit - widening the spotlights means the 8*8 tiles on either side of the spotlights will now have a vertical line of white, but those tiles were also recycled throughout the background. So there's essentially two copies of the background tiles, with and without the white line.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/adcf30a47cf32b62841c59d2e8f961b5.png)
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StevenM, I see... I hadn't noticed they were recycled. D:
Alternatively of course one could take care to render the pokemon sprites themselves so that they never touch the borders. I think the tangents really hurt the last image, at least more than what the extra two lines of pixels help.
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StevenM, I see... I hadn't noticed they were recycled. D:
Alternatively of course one could take care to render the pokemon sprites themselves so that they never touch the borders. I think the tangents really hurt the last image, at least more than what the extra two lines of pixels help.
Yeah, that would be the better alternative since the sprites don't need extra tiles to be edited.
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I updated the layout of my battle screen to incorporate the superb background tiles that StevenM and DragonDePlatino have displayed.
Actually, only the forest is introduced at the moment (and slightly modified since I can only work with 9 tiles in height and 18 bg tiles overall). I can introduce the caves and indoor tiles very easily since the infrastructure is all set up.
I need to fix some things tonight and add in the final remaining feature (Loading the 'face' tiles) and then I will post some screenshots.
If anyone is interested in helping me with the design of more background environments, that would be awesome. Let me know!
EDIT:
Here are the screenshots, the faces haven't been implemented yet. Which style do you think works best?
(http://i.imgur.com/qGqlOse.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/00imPbP.png)
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I can't begin to tell you all what wonderful people you are.
I don't know what possessed me to wander haplessly into this forum and stumble upon this topic, but seeing all this has inspired me, and motivated me to try my hand at programming again. In two hours, I have made a picture-perfect replica of Pallet Town and Route 1, all basic functions of the game save for Pokemon encounters intact.
My time these days is extremely limited, so I don't know how fast I'll be able to work on this little pet project, but should I get farther along in it, perhaps I could work with some of you to allow for in-game interface swapping to one of these masterpieces you've designed. It will already be incredibly easy to work with you all as it is, since you obviously understand how tiles work.
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Kirby: I'm so glad we've inspired you! I too have been extremely impressed with the work that has come out of this commercial critique challenge. What I like most about these activities, and pixel art in general, is that restrictions breed creativity, and there are a lot of creative solutions evident in the work here. Good luck on your project, and when you get to that point, feel free to message any of the users here to ask permission to use their work :]
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I can't begin to tell you all what wonderful people you are.
I don't know what possessed me to wander haplessly into this forum and stumble upon this topic, but seeing all this has inspired me, and motivated me to try my hand at programming again. In two hours, I have made a picture-perfect replica of Pallet Town and Route 1, all basic functions of the game save for Pokemon encounters intact.
My time these days is extremely limited, so I don't know how fast I'll be able to work on this little pet project, but should I get farther along in it, perhaps I could work with some of you to allow for in-game interface swapping to one of these masterpieces you've designed. It will already be incredibly easy to work with you all as it is, since you obviously understand how tiles work.
Are you creating a game from scratch?
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Ryumaru: Thanks so much! =) With a couple more hours put in, I've recreated Viridian in all of its glory, and added in NPCs to make the world start to feel more alive.
Pokeglitch: That I am! The only thing between me and the lines of code is my trusty keyboard.
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Kirby, how is your game coming along?
I have posted a video of the new battle sequence onto my youtube page, take a look and tell me what you all think!
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pokeglitch, that looks absolutely amazing! The black background gives the battle a cinematic feel reminiscent to the nidorino vs gengar cutscene, and that's a great thing.
a few concerns:
- where would trainer's remaining pokemon be shown?
- will you have "HP" in the HUD at all? without it things get to be a bit nebulous up there
- do you plan on making exp shown in hud? It's pretty important!
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pokeglitch, that looks absolutely amazing! The black background gives the battle a cinematic feel reminiscent to the nidorino vs gengar cutscene, and that's a great thing.
a few concerns:
- where would trainer's remaining pokemon be shown?
- will you have "HP" in the HUD at all? without it things get to be a bit nebulous up there
- do you plan on making exp shown in hud? It's pretty important!
Thanks! I agree with you about the cinematic effect.
For your questions:
-The trainer party info will be shown where the HP is current displayed
-The players pokemon HP (in numbers) is displayed next to the minisprite, under the HUD. It only shows the current HP though.
-I have considered and Exp bar. The only place for it to fit, though, is in the three vertical tiles before the enemy Pokemon's mini sprite. I'm not sure how it will look, but I'll play around with some designs. I'm mostly worried about animating it, but if that before troublesome I can just skip any animation
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Kirby, how is your game coming along?
Well, I don't have a fancy video to show off yet but I can show you some screen shots of what it's looking like so far!
(http://www.kirbypereira.net/screenshots/pokemon.png)
So I'll walk you through this. When you get into the fight, if you have this interface turned on, they won't say their opening line before the battle screen, but there in the start of the battle. It will first show your name and the enemy trainer's name, and then the name panels will slide out to the sides and be replaced by the panels with the pokemon count. You'll both send out your pokemon (no animation done yet) and then the letterboxing 'closes in' and the screen shifts up one tile to make room for the more detailed interface. When you pick your attack, the letterboxing 'opens up' again and it only shows the health bar and status of the defending pokemon.
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Looks good! Are you going to implement the entire battle mechanics? That sounds like a huge undertaking
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Sorry for the double post, but for those still interested, I added the finishing touches to the battle screen HUD. I updated the level tiles (they now appear for both pokemon), added an Exp bar, and added a pokeball that lets you know if you have already caught the opposing pokemon. Check out the video below (with the DragonDePlatino and StevenM "indoor" background).
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Definitely awesome! Although looking at it now, it does feel a bit cramped for some reason. What would it look like without the 8 pixel black border around the menu? That's 16 pixels that could go to more background and space for the battles!
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Thanks! You're right, I could get two more rows of tiles for the background (though I hate you for suggesting it because I just finished the bgs yesterday). I do like the buffer between the bottom of the BG and the text area, but I can make a quick mock up tomorrow and see how it would look with a larger BG. The only thing is (due to the nature of the code I've written) I can only use 16 different tiles for the BG (not counting solid colors), so I wouldn't be able to add in any new tiles. Thanks for the suggestion though!
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Impressive.
I don't care how long this takes, but I want it. I can wait.
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Hi everyone, I've returned after so long to post these.
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/358/f/c/pkmnstarters_by_jackster3000-d8b4wn0.gif)
I started to grow interest in remaking all 151 Pokemon from Red/Blue after seeing how god awful the original sprites looked (the same goes with the Red/Green sprites too). My goal also includes drawing them in the same pose and close to the same shading as the originals. So far, I've done the starters, other Pokemon will soon come.
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/pokeremake%20%2822%29.png)
The first four screens with intro, menu, attack menu and narration; a larger opponent Pokemon to demonstrate the necessity of the 56*56 blank space; the intro of a Giovanni battle demonstrating a different background entirely; the original background and battle menu style that had to be removed; a dark cave background. I changed all the sprites from the original games as well as the menu style, and I'm liking most of the changes, it gives me a strong Shining Force vibe.
EDIT: The two FOCUS ENERGY screenshots have different looks for Pokemon Trainer Red, I don't have a real preference between the two.
DOUBLE EDIT: I changed the Mewtwo sprite. I initially liked the idea of the semi-shadowy figure with his face obscured, but the weird contrast in lighting and dithering didn't save the picture. If you want to see the initial picture, it's here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102567447/pokeremake%20mewtwo.png).
Damn, please make sprites of other Pokemon... your style is perfect, i love your pics :D
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With your pixel skill, you can make this Snorlax in sprite? :D Its one of my fav pokemon, and i like to see "this pic in game" XD if you can, indeed:
www.puclpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Snorlax_AG_anime.png
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I realise this is a really old topic, but I found this thread from Google because of the OP's tileset, and I've made my own observations I thought I'd like to add.
As has been pointed out - the Game Boy works off of 8x8 tiles, which are then used to represent the more commonly recognise 16x16 tiles. But I've noticed something about the way the maps are, well, mapped out that I wonder is worth taking into consideration with these remake mocks.
On top of being 16x16 tiles, the maps themselves are comprised of 32x32 tiles - 4x16x16 tiles that don't ever seem to break from specific groups.
(http://i.imgur.com/zTCUTP3.png)
It's fairly obvious from this map. There are tiles for "sign and surrounding area", the pattern for roads (or trimmed grass or whatever it's supposed to be), for the segments of houses themselves, even for where a cut tree is situated. I think it's fascinating the way they designed it this way, but I wonder if it's a mechanical thing or if it was something to make it easier on the developers, to create pre-fabricated clumps of tiles.
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Now, the reason I found this thread is actually because of that "hard mode" tileset - I ripped it! (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=3601362#3601362) (If the page doesn't load right, my post is "Jirbytaylor" and the original file is here. (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1833/mainel2.png)) I ripped the tiles and compiled them into a single RPG Maker-format chipset/tileset.
To be honest, that was a pretty bad idea. You gain no advantages in RM2k/3 by cramming as much as you can into one file. This set is missing tiles and is really more a detriment. I've been trying to make something more efficient and can be used to create Kanto exactly, and split between separate files, but it's not been a priority, so I haven't progressed far.
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I ripped the tiles and compiled them into a single RPG Maker-format chipset/tileset.
It's usually because of people like you that we get to do these commercial critiques as in-depth as we do :)
Much thanks
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Sorry for reviving this old topic, but I mean no harm.
I just thought it would be worth showing that I finished the Pokemon Red/Blue sprites revamping project.
It's somekind of remake but keeping the original lineart and shading just the way I imagine it was suposed to look before the TV Show or/and later games:
(http://i.imgur.com/WEQYp8m.gif)
It sure has some inconsistence, but it's due to its project taking almost 5 years to finish. And my style sure changed along the years. But anyways, hope you'll like it for what it is!
For more info on the project, please follow the original posting over dA: http://fav.me/d48vg7p (http://fav.me/d48vg7p)
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That is just beautiful Jinn.
In many ways, I've always wanted to do something similar to this. Except that my aims usually also involved modding it all into a Game Boy Advance gen game to carry around and play, as well as display. Not to mention it being a nice resource to design my own quickie pokemon adventures.
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Thanks, Vagrant!
And I think you totally should! I learnt a lot from it!
Trying to work around other's "mistakes" is a nice way to improve.
I focused a lot on good shading to make a lineart to look nice even with it's flaws. Some of these were very easy, while others were a pain! It's strange how the same game have some really well drawn sprites (like scyther, magikarp), while others are really questionable looking (like weepinbell, marowak or jigglypuff). Multiple artists, maybe?
Anyways, I wonder what are the gba limitations, maybe I could reduct these ones without too much loss and put them into a rom hack just to see how they'd look in action.
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wow jinn, theyre fantastic. great rendering and colours, and all very recognisable.
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Thanks, Vagrant!
And I think you totally should! I learnt a lot from it!
Trying to work around other's "mistakes" is a nice way to improve.
I focused a lot on good shading to make a lineart to look nice even with it's flaws. Some of these were very easy, while others were a pain! It's strange how the same game have some really well drawn sprites (like scyther, magikarp), while others are really questionable looking (like weepinbell, marowak or jigglypuff). Multiple artists, maybe?
Anyways, I wonder what are the gba limitations, maybe I could reduct these ones without too much loss and put them into a rom hack just to see how they'd look in action.
It can be very easy to achieve; the only problem being that your style would clash with the pre-existing Fire Red assets such as maps, trainers, HUD, ect. Not to mention needing Pokemon back sprite versions.
I, myself, would just lightly edit the originals and remake some of them, to taste. While focusing the real pixel work into the maps, menus and such. Especially maps:
(http://i.imgur.com/lclwzQJ.png)
I'd like to try that style on the GBA, in my project. It's very similar to my past Fire Emblem material as well, except cooler in temperature.
FR/LG Commercial Critique anyone? At last I know I want to push the limits in many aspects of those games, especially in pixel. :-*
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@Probo Thank you very much!! ;D
@Vagrant I like it quite a lot! I wonder how the houses would look in this style, especially the pokecenter!